She bit me!

[jossh27]

Had my cal king for a while now and shes only bitten the previous owner once and that was because he was doing a show and reached into her travel bag to pick her up AFTER he was finished with another snake. cal kings eat snakes... silly move on his part. anyways, shes never once come across aggressive in anyway that i could tell. today she was half out of her hide so i decided i was going to take her out and handle her for a bit... i reached in towards her head with a open hand to let her smell me and as soon as she bumped her nose into my finger she decided she wanted to eat me and took a nice big bite into my index finger! she then put me in a "death wrap" which made things much less comfortable. i picked her up and instead of going to the garage to get a axe i decided to go into the bathroom and ran warm water on her head for about 15 minutes till she decided to let go... after she let go she wasn't finished with me and tried to take another go at my hand, but i managed to pull away in time

why would she do this? she ate Thursday night, so i dont think shes hungry.
i dont have any other snakes, so she wasnt smelling them. the only thing i can think of is i havent been handling her much lately because i was out of town for work for a while.

[EL Ziggy]

Sounds more like a feeding response than a defensive strike Josh. Could she still be hungry?

[jossh27]

I hope your right. she destroyed two f/t adult mice three days ago, so i'm not sure if shes still hungry...

are defensive strikes more of a bite and release rather than a bite and hold? she kept readjusting her jaw to get a better grip on my finger. and did i do the right thing with running warm water on her face to try and make her let go?- i didn't want to hurt her

[prairiepanda]

and instead of going to the garage to get a axe

.........................................what?



That aside, I agree it sounds like a feeding response bite, especially since she "chewed" on you a bit and put you in a death wrap. That's something snakes only do to prey. You may have gotten some weird smell on you by accident(do you wash your hands prior to handling?) or maybe she was just extra hungry. Perhaps it is time for bigger meals? Do you have a scale you can use to compare her weight to the weight of her prey? Running water on her was the right way to go about it. If you had forced her off you could have done irreparable damage.

This could easily be a one-time thing, but if you're concerned about it happening again in the future and/or becoming a habit you could always try tap training her with a snake hook or stick or whatever is handy. It's as simple as just giving her a boop on the nose whenever you open the cage for any reason other than feeding. The boop snaps them out of feeding mode so you can go about with cage maintenance or handling. And then when there's no boop she can keep being expectant and excited for food to come.

[EL Ziggy]

Wow, typically 2 adult mice should be plenty. How big is your girl? My kings eat 2 jumbos weekly. I can't imagine they'd be bitey with a little less. You're right, typically a defensive strike is a quick bite and release. It sounds like she was trying to eat your finger :). Running water on their head is one method to get them to let go. You can also use a dab of listerine near their nose or mouth.

[Rattlehead]

The only time my king is agressive at me is when she's digesting and I disturb her. Could it be that she still had fold on the belly?

[sophiedufort]

the only thing i can think of is i havent been handling her much lately because i was out of town for work for a while.

That's your answer, right there :) I handle my snakes daily, and they respond beautifully to it. Never got bitten. Not once.

[Derek Roddy]

Welcome to snake keeping. haha.

D

[jossh27]

i don't have a scale, no. shes over 4 feet and i was told shes pretty much full grown. she gets two adult mice bi-weekly.

i saw her out of her hide again just a few minutes ago, so i opened her cage and she instantly charged at me lol so i used a mini hockey stick as a hook and she "attacked" it. this is crazy... she was so nice before. my 3 year old son would handle her and she never even musked once.

Derek, I'm okay with being bit- its apart of the hobby i guess. my son loves this snake and i couldn't ever chance him being bit.

[jossh27]

.........................................what?


it was a joke.

[EL Ziggy]

I still think she's hungry. 2 mice every 14 days doesn't seem like much for an adult king IMO. My kings eat every 7 days on average. Occasionally they'll go 10 days if they have a larger meal. I'd increase the frequency of your feedings and maybe increase the amount as well. I'm not sure what size your mice are but on Big Cheese the small adults are 13-18g each and adults are 19-29g each. The jumbos are 30g (+) each. Both of my kings are a little over two years old and 630-650g each. They eat 2 jumbos each every 7 days.

[SSSSnakes]

That's your answer, right there :) I handle my snakes daily, and they respond beautifully to it. Never got bitten. Not once.

It is not how often you handle a snake, but how you handle a snake that keeps you from getting bit.

[sophiedufort]

It is not how often you handle a snake, but how you handle a snake that keeps you from getting bit.
I am pretty sure it's both.

[SSSSnakes]

I am pretty sure it's both.

You can handle the most aggressive snakes and if you know how to handle them properly, you will not get bit. If you don't know how to handle a snake properly, you can handle an aggressive snake every day and get bit every time.

[sophiedufort]

You can handle the mossot aggressive snakes and if you know how to handle them properly, you will not get bit. If you don't know how to handle a snake properly, you can handle an aggressive snake every day and get bit every time.
I believe I mentioned that I never got bit :) so I must be doing something right. I agree that it's in the way I handle them, but timing and frequency of handling matter just as much.

[Skits]

It's definitely in how you approach a snake and how much they are fed as well. Going for it's face with an open hand seems like something he's misinterpret as feeding time. It happens, people get bit. Kings are..well..crazy. My kings all have on and off days. Not sure how big your king is (do you have a picture?) but maybe you're not feeding enough. My own kings, depending on their sizes and species, get a 30g (or 50g, not sure) rat a week.

[Albert Clark]

I think she is just being a Cal king. It also is something that comes with owning reptiles. It's what they do and some are more inclined to do it than others. We need to respect the wild in our captives and have the mindset that every time we reach into that enclosure we are taking a risk at getting bit. If we prepared like that it probably would happen less.

[EL Ziggy]

I think kings get an undeserved bad rep sometimes :). I only have two but neither of them have ever attempted to strike or bite me. They would musk a little when I first got them but that was about it as far as defensive behavior. They're both super tame and sweet now. I know many other king keepers who have never had issues with them either. Don't get me wrong they often have very strong feeding responses and can go into a frenzy and strike anything that moves when they're hungry but other than that I think kings are pretty docile for the most part.

[prairiepanda]

I think kings get an undeserved bad rep sometimes :). I only have two but neither of them have ever attempted to strike or bite me. They would musk a little when I first got them but that was about it as far as defensive behavior. They're both super tame and sweet now. I know many other king keepers who have never had issues with them either. Don't get me wrong they often have very strong feeding responses and can go into a frenzy and strike anything that moves when they're hungry but other than that I think kings are pretty docile for the most part.

I agree. I've never seen a king that was a total spaz other than at feeding time. Some are flighty and musk or pee on people, but normally if they're striking it's in a feeding response. I think a lot of the crazy ones people are always talking about are just hungry.

[jossh27]

I still think she's hungry. 2 mice every 14 days doesn't seem like much for an adult king IMO. My kings eat every 7 days on average. Occasionally they'll go 10 days if they have a larger meal. I'd increase the frequency of your feedings and maybe increase the amount as well. I'm not sure what size your mice are but on Big Cheese the small adults are 13-18g each and adults are 19-29g each. The jumbos are 30g (+) each. Both of my kings are a little over two years old and 630-650g each. They eat 2 jumbos each every 7 days.


so does anyone else agree with ziggy? no disrespect, ziggy... just want to get reassurance before i start doubling her food intake.

[SnoopySnake]

She's hungry. Biting and coiling isn't a defensive bite, its a feeding response.

[jossh27]

Someone asked for pictures to see her size. The eating picture was taken about a month ago and is a adult mouse. Hope these help

[EL Ziggy]

No offense taken Josh. It's just my opinion and I've been wrong more than once :). Looking at your girl does give me confidence IMO though. She's gorgeous and larger than I originally thought. She looks like she could handle small rats. She also appears healthy and well cared for so she's not malnourished but I think she's trying to tell you something. Feed that beast! I'm not saying you should double her intake but try giving her slightly larger meals and a little more often and see if she calms down. My MBK and both my bulls are also wanting to eat more lately. I'm not sure if it's the warmer weather or what. The kings slow down a bit during the cooler months but the bulls are always turned up. Best wishes and keep us posted.

[jossh27]

Im not sure the place i buy from sells "jumbo" mice so other than switching to rats I'm not sure how i can up her meal size? and right now i only have one snake so i dont want to order online :s... only one thing to do... buy more snakes! lol

[Lefitte]

Buy more snakes. Always the right answer, isn't it?
I only have one, a 1 year old California king. She used to angry pee on me all the time and she's feinted twice, bumping my hand both times but not striking. Each time she was telling me something. Each time, I had scared her, approached too suddenly and too scary for my teeny worm. I learned from each of them and she hasn't done anything more, I've had her most of the year and handle weekly or more. Hopefully upping the food size and frequency will solve the issue. If anything, take it as a lesson learned =D

Also Ziggy, I'm amazed at your kings being over 600g and 2 years! My girl is around 50g and around 10mos. Can't imagine her growing that much within the next year even if she nearly tripled her weight in the last 6 months.

[prairiepanda]

Im not sure the place i buy from sells "jumbo" mice so other than switching to rats I'm not sure how i can up her meal size? and right now i only have one snake so i dont want to order online :s... only one thing to do... buy more snakes! lol

If you can't get jumbo mice, she does look like she could handle small rats. I feel like two adult mice is a pretty small meal for her, looking at the photo of her eating one. Looks like the "adult" mice that Petsmart sells which are half the size of the adults a the pet store across the street. She does look really healthy, though, so maybe they're not as small as it looks. Try two every 7 days and see how she does. You could do 3 per meal, but at that point it would definitely be more economical to switch to rats. She's gorgeous, by the way!

EDIT: if you do decide to switch to rats, don't go straight to smalls; start with ones that are a similar size to the mice you're feeding now and then work your way up from there. Sudden changes in prey size can cause a snake to refuse food.

[EL Ziggy]

Im not sure the place i buy from sells "jumbo" mice so other than switching to rats I'm not sure how i can up her meal size? and right now i only have one snake so i dont want to order online :s... only one thing to do... buy more snakes! lol

I couldn't agree more about buying more snakes Josh but I still think buying online is more convenient, and cost effective, even with just one snake ;). Like Panda said, if you don't want to switch to rats, and those are the largest mice you can get, you can feed her more and/or more often. Instead of every 14 days try her every 7-10 days. If she slams 2, give her a third sometimes.

Buy more snakes. Always the right answer, isn't it?
I only have one, a 1 year old California king. She used to angry pee on me all the time and she's feinted twice, bumping my hand both times but not striking. Each time she was telling me something. Each time, I had scared her, approached too suddenly and too scary for my teeny worm. I learned from each of them and she hasn't done anything more, I've had her most of the year and handle weekly or more. Hopefully upping the food size and frequency will solve the issue. If anything, take it as a lesson learned =D

Also Ziggy, I'm amazed at your kings being over 600g and 2 years! My girl is around 50g and around 10mos. Can't imagine her growing that much within the next year even if she nearly tripled her weight in the last 6 months.

I agree with you too Lefitte. I think our snakes try to tell us in their own way what they need. If I startle my bulls, they'll rattle their tales. Or they'll hiss if I'm too close while they're eating. When they're hungry they'll cruise the front of their tanks more, strike the glass when I walk by, or they'll come bolting out of their hides when I open their enclosures. I'm learning to 'read' their signals better.

There is a noticeable difference in our king's sizes. I think I feed my snakes a little more generously than some but they're definitely not power fed. I stuck pretty closely to the 10-15% of their body weight per feeding formula until they turned one. Now that they're young adults they get about 10%. Sometimes a little more, sometimes a little less. They weighed 630g and 635g at their last weigh in ten days ago. Their last meals were 60-62g. That's either (2) jumbo mice or a jumbo mouse and a chick.

http://i1319.photobucket.com/albums/t674/EL-Ziggy/HC1_zpsy7qailo8.jpg (http://s1319.photobucket.com/user/EL-Ziggy/media/HC1_zpsy7qailo8.jpg.html)

http://i1319.photobucket.com/albums/t674/EL-Ziggy/DSC_1647_zpsud3ugc0l.jpg (http://s1319.photobucket.com/user/EL-Ziggy/media/DSC_1647_zpsud3ugc0l.jpg.html)


http://i1319.photobucket.com/albums/t674/EL-Ziggy/Mobile%20Uploads/20150522_231838-1_zpskfizvn1n.jpg (http://s1319.photobucket.com/user/EL-Ziggy/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150522_231838-1_zpskfizvn1n.jpg.html)

http://i1319.photobucket.com/albums/t674/EL-Ziggy/DSC_1642_zpsu1hbamov.jpg (http://s1319.photobucket.com/user/EL-Ziggy/media/DSC_1642_zpsu1hbamov.jpg.html)

[jossh27]

If you can't get jumbo mice, she does look like she could handle small rats. I feel like two adult mice is a pretty small meal for her, looking at the photo of her eating one. Looks like the "adult" mice that Petsmart sells which are half the size of the adults a the pet store across the street. She does look really healthy, though, so maybe they're not as small as it looks. Try two every 7 days and see how she does. You could do 3 per meal, but at that point it would definitely be more economical to switch to rats. She's gorgeous, by the way!

EDIT: if you do decide to switch to rats, don't go straight to smalls; start with ones that are a similar size to the mice you're feeding now and then work your way up from there. Sudden changes in prey size can cause a snake to refuse food.

they aren't from petsmart but they are the same size mice as they would sell because i have bought mice from petculture and they are the same size as the ones im feeding her now

ill feed her tomorrow which will be 7 days since her last meal then ill try to switch her to rats that are close to the same size as the mice she currently eats. ill keep you guys posted. hopefully this calms the psychotic worm down!


I WANT MY OLD GIRL BACK!!