Herping vs Theology

[Kurzix]

This most likely will be a pretty heated thread, and I know talk about religion is typically frowned upon, but I mention it only because it is relevent.

As alot of you may know already, I had to move back in with my parents, and they forbid me from bringing my snakes with me. They claimed that a snake is an image of Satan and not to be allowed into my fathers house. (this is the point where i will note my parents are Southern Baptist).

Well to the point of my post, as herpers part of our responsibility is to educate people about all herps, and even snakes. So if anyone has any points I could use to try and overturn my parents or anyone else who objects to animals for religous reasons, I'd really like some help here. I think for this defense to have any chance with people like this quotes out of the bible would be needed to back it up.

To anyone religous who reads this, it is not meant to be offensive, I just want to be able to keep my herps!! after all they are just animals...or are they?

[ReptileHQ]

Do they think you're a Satanist because you like snakes? just a Q to contemplate my advice, if any...

Chris

[Kurzix]

Originally posted by ReptileHQ
Do they think you're a Satanist because you like snakes? just a Q to contemplate my advice, if any...

Chris

No, I don't beleive so, at least they haven't said as much to me. However when they told me their objection to the snakes they also mentioned "I know you won't understand now, but in time I hope you will"

Jay

[nouserpif]

Hmmm... I believe religion should impair no decisions... You should be able to keep your snakes, especially if the only reason stopping you is your parents religion.

What about that moses dude, who threw his staff, and then it turned into a snake, ate two bad guys' snakes, and turned back into a snake? That was in the bible, wasn't it? Or was that in that Veggie-tales movie...

Whatever. I really don't think religion is anything to take TOO seriously... Look at it this way, these friggen fanatics give their lives for their religion, for the hope of salvation, and your parents (and probably your) religion won't allow you to keep an animal, because "It looks like a bad guy".
What sounds crazier?

Think about the animal, not about the idea of the animal. Doesn't God say something about not judging things like that, and that all animals are God's Creatures?

Ah whatever, I'm just remembering soem things from the bible, now I'm gonna have to go read it, so I remember what it says, or else it will bug me.

Just my Ranting...

Dan Conner

[rethius]

"The book of Revelation, identifies "that serpent of old" as "the Devil and Satan" (Revelation 20:2). Does this mean that every serpent is satanic? No, there is no reason to believe that. If so, what did God mean when He gave Moses the sign of changing his rod into a snake (Exodus 7:9-12)? Was God using something evil to accomplish something good? There is no doubt that Satan's use of the serpent to tempt Eve has contributed to the overall disdain people have for this reptile. But to condemn every member of this family for that one incident is analogous to condemning every Jew because of the actions of a few in the crucifixion of Jesus..It's just not logical."(Tim Hall)

[Tim_Cranwill]

I'm no religion buff but with what Rethius said about tempting Eve, shouldn't there be a hatred of apples as well? Maybe not. Like I said, I'm no expert, but the apple was the fruit that did us all in wasn't it? Do you parents allow apples in their home?;)

????? :) ?????

[Lisa]

Some how I don't think any argument you present will sway your parents. Some people will say the earth is flat no matter how much proof you give that it's round.

[norman]

i agree with cranwill...lol. its true though.

[beth wallbank]

Doh!!! Beth, i meant to hit quote on your post and i accidentily hit edit!! argh!! Its to early for this! :( Sorry Beth...

Jeff

[Snake Lady]

Hey Kurzix!

Well i dont really think its fair that your parents are stereotyping snakes in a biblical way but anyways, i think they should maybe try to understand that they are living creatures also and should not be looked upon negatively.

As for the bible quotes...my bf found a few. For example,

Amos 9:3, " And though they hide themselves in the top of carmel, i will search and take them out thence; and though they behid from my site in the bottom of the sea thence; will i commend the serpent and he shall bite them." (this proves that God used snakes to his own advantage so how can they be satanic creatures?)

Mark 16:12, " They shall take up serpents and if they drink any deadly things it shall not hurt them, they shall lay hands on the sick and they shall recover." (To me.. i interpret this as a biblical way of saying snakes help society. If you look in todays research snakes help farmers for rodent control for their crops, and snake venom has help create anti-venom to save peoples lives and also they are looking at maybe venom curing a lot of diseases.)

So basically if God did not intend for the serpent to be on this earth for us humans to admire and appreciate, he never would have instructed Noah to collect a male and a female to put on the arc.

Hope it helps and hope it shows your parents a new perspective of snakes but also be prepared because the Bible also catogarizes satan as a snake because its the only animal on earth that can kill its prey like satan can kill someones soul. Keep in mind that its only a symbol though...its not a fact because humans symbolizes things all the time and the bible was written by a human. For example.. X-mas/Christs birth=Santa Clause, Christs ressurection/Easter=Easter Bunny! So symbols dont mean anything!

:) Snake Lady & Chondro Python :)

[Scotty Allen]

While I refuse to enter into political or religious discussions, Kurzix, I have to take your parents side on this one. Of course I do not agree with their beliefs but I feel that since you're living in their home, you're obligated to do so following their rules. I don't think you should waste any more of your time or breath trying to convert them in their beliefs.

Be thankful you have somewhere to live and deal with it till you can get on your feet and back out on your own again.

Just my biased opinion as a parent.

[tHeGiNo]

Ok so if the government said you cannot have a T.V in your house, because they do "own" your house, and if they really wanted to they probably could kick you out and there would be nothing you could do about it. Wouldn't you at least try to fight for your TV? lol weird example but it works.

[tHeGiNo]

Also maybe it is not just the snakes he is trying to get into his house, maybe he is also trying to clear the reputation of snakes as evil...

[BILLP]

Maybe your parents are just scared and don't like snakes and the relegous thing is just an excuse to ban them from the house. So you may need to educate them on snakes in general. That they are not bad and slimy and mean.

[beth wallbank]

doh!!!! jeff.......I was just getting warmed up!!!
Anyways, Kurzix, I think you should respect you parents rules, and hopefully you can find a sitter for your herps till you are back on your own.

[Nanashi04]

am not a christian, at all... but that doesn't mean I'm going to put down anyone's beliefs. I hope you and you parents can come to some sort of agreement. There is nothing worse that fueding families...

I'd go with it, maybe drop a few hints... and hope they lighten up a bit. :)

[Dom]

As much as I hate to admit it .. Your parents home, your parents rules.. U can try and who knows u might succed but since they are the hand that feeds you, you must respect their beleiefs..

Don't et me wrong.. I DISAGREE completly with there beliefs (I am not religious in the least) but you have to be respectfull of others oppinions..

BTW .. I love the quotes .. quite entertaining..

[tHeGiNo]

Hey if you don't end up being able to keep them I can hold on to them for you, feed them and all, I wouldn't mind. What herps do you have?

[herm]

I think Snake Lady gives you the best ammunition for trying to sway your parents. But the bottom line is that it is their house and if they don't want snakes for whatever reason, you need to respect their wishes. Best to start looking for temporary homes for your pets. Good Luck.

[Alicewave]

I agree, I think providing quotes from the bible shows you are interested and have taken the time to learn about some of the beliefs. I do think you should respect your parents but trying to educate them beyond such beliefs could be very helpful. Will you be paying rent to stay there? If so then it becomes more complicated as far as "their house, their rules" If you are paying rent, you should have a little more freedom for how you live your life, especially with something as non-disruptive as snakes. Just curious, how many do you have? Is their problem with snakes only or all reptiles?

[HeatherRose]

I converted FROM christianity because of stuff like this...right now I'm studying another (paganism/wicca) because it fits so perfectly....and I STILL have people (though it's not longer 1692 last time I checked) trying to save my soul, threatening me and calling me a satan worshipper because they're stupid. (the devil is a figure in the christiant faith, we don't even believe in one, let alone worship one :P)

ANYWAY...I'd sit down with your parents (and snakes :) ) talk to a priest, use SnakeLady's quotes and any other info that you can gather to prove that snakes aren't evil...

while it sounds silly to some, it's bringing it all down to your parent's values and how THEY see things....If I were in the same situation I'd be doing this...

by not trying to make them see that they're being ridiculous-ish (not trying to offend), but by giving them information so that they can get a better idea....it makes for a rational discussion anyway.

Remind them how they're your pets and that you love them very much, that helps :)

Best of luck,
Heather :)

[Lisa]

Heather i have the perfect thing for you for people that tell you that you are going to hell. http://thisistrue.com/goohf.html

[Jeromerules]

I am a christian Man here myself. Catholic to be exact. I am sure most of you will say catholicism is corrupt because our priests malest people. All I can say to that is there are like 2 or 3 priests that probably did. But they are human like us and not god and do get tempted. ANyways Besides the point. I would use an example of say when Jesus healed the person who was posessed by demons and then he cast it into the pigs and the pigs went wild and drowned themselves. Does that mean the pigs are a sign of evil because they had satan inside them? Also a snake is god's creature. But the snakes they talk of in the bible are venomous and very aggressive snakes. They were'nt talking about nice cute little ball pythons that are harmless to humans. What about satanists who get converted to christianity? Is it once a satanists always a satanist or what? Can't things change? What I did when we got the first snake in the house was just snuck it in. Even though my mother said no a million times and was serious we still brought it in. That was for my bros snake. And then I got one. Now she's fine with them and will sit beside me when I am holding it.Your parents just might need to get used to it. I think it's kinda dumb how a stereotype will be laid upon an animal that was the image of satan in the bible. WHat if satan was a horse??? It just doesn't suit it because venomous snakes just look mean. Anyways I just hope that adleast one of the people examples in this forum helps your parents decision. I'll pray for ya. God Bless.
L8er
JEROMEO

[HeatherRose]

LMAO lol thanks Lisa...

Heather :D

[Kurzix]

Originally posted by FlatwoundScotty
While I refuse to enter into political or religious discussions, Kurzix, I have to take your parents side on this one. Of course I do not agree with their beliefs but I feel that since you're living in their home, you're obligated to do so following their rules. I don't think you should waste any more of your time or breath trying to convert them in their beliefs.

Be thankful you have somewhere to live and deal with it till you can get on your feet and back out on your own again.

Just my biased opinion as a parent.

Scotty,

I want to be perfectly clear here. I fell upon rough times, and I am thankful for parents willing to help me out. Granted this is their house, and their rules. There are many rules that I have to follow that I don;t agree with. However I respect those rules. Even the no snakes rule, which is why i will not try to "sneak" one in. However the reason behind the no snake rule is what gets me.

See none of the other rules is something I am passionate about. I could care less about the no alcohol, the curfew (yes 24yrs old with a curfew) thats stuff I can deal with. If I could keep snakes here that would indeed rock! And it would be an added bonus. I just want to change my parents view of the animal.

Keep in mind all the time I was on my own, I owned snakes. My parents NEVER came by my house. I;ve not asked if the snakes were the reason but i suspect so. when I am back on my own I will have snakes again. If they refuse to come over because of the pets I chose to keep, that is their problem, but if I never try to correct it, then its my fault.

This sunday I plan to talk to the pastor and see what his views are. I thank everyone for their replys, I just wanted my reasoning and intentions to be clear, its not at all that is disrespect, or want to disobey the rules, I just want to change the reasoning behind it!

Jay

[rethius]

See this is why religious comments/discussions do not work. We get some people trying to answer a question and then some people telling us about their own beliefs and how they switch from this to that. I don't think anyone here cares if you are christian/catholic/muslim/paganisticwhatever, lets just try to answer the guys question before this turns out to be an argument.

[HeatherRose]

I don't think anyone here is really arguing....I was just pointing out that I identified with him and my dealing with people and they're seemingly ridiculous beliefs...

Heather

[Scotty Allen]

Best of luck to you Jay.

I understand perfectly your reasoning and that you mean no disrespect to your folks. My point is only that I'm willing to bet that your parents are pretty set in their views (which is their right, just as you have yours), and that they're not going to change.

I am only suggesting that you concentrate your energy on more positive aspects and move on. If you do succeed in changing their views and getting them to allow you to keep snakes in their home, I will be the first to salute you.

[eyespy]

My only suggestion is to ask them to read the creation story in Genesis. After God made the heavens, the earth, the plants and all the animals he "saw that it was good". He then made Adam and gave him dominion over all of the animals.

If the snakes were seen as good in God's eyes, how can they be satanic? If people have dominion over all the animals, how can a snake have the power to corrupt us?

I hope that the pastor wil be helpful in educating your parents. If not, best of luck finding a foster home for your snakes until your situation in life changes.

[tHeGiNo]

But they are human like us and not god and do get tempted.

LOL I am suprised no one else replied to that comment. Don't get me wrong, I am catholic too. HOWEVER, if your tempted to take part in sexual relations, do it with a woman, with her consent. Even if you HAD to rape someone, not a damn child for christ sake.

[Scales Zoo]

A kid said it best at a bible camp we took our reptiles to this summer. When we were discussing legless lizards and snakes losing their legs, one kid piped up "I don't think it was a snake that told Eve to eat the apple!" I asked him why not, and he replied "I think if Eve saw a snake in the garden, she would have run away. I think it was a cute little animal and God punished him for tricking Eve by turning him into a snake" Interesting way for an 8 year old to see it.

[frogman]

I am a relegious person also. Christian to be exact, I have a 3 year degree in theology and I can tell you that snakes are not a symbol of satan.

The "being" that tempted eve in the garden had leggs. This is evedant in the fact that God condemed him to Crawl on his belly "Like a Snake". in the beginning he had leggs and therefore was not a snake and after it was condemmed to crawl on his belly it was LIKE a snake and therefore no a snake.

I am willing to help anyway i can if you want more info (or referances) E-mail me Charles@sitesareus.net

or anybody else that wants to e-mail me I like getting E-mail :D

Thanks

Charles

[ReptiZone]

hey that makes me think we do have a legles lizard on earth thers your satan....heheheheLOL. But that is quite a coincidence don't you think.

[eyespy]

So does that mean there were no snakes until Eve bit the apple?

Sure would be nice to think that something good came out of mankind losing the right to enjoy eternal paradise. ;)