Need RI Advice ASAP

[Minkness]

So, I very much believe my ball python has an RI. He squeeks, rasps, and gurgles when breathing. I WILL be taking him to a vet, but I have some questions to make sure I take him to a good one.

After lots of reading on here about RIs, I understand that there are 2 types. Viral and Bacterial. What are the specific tests I should ask to have done?

Now, I have been calling EVERY reptile vet in town to get the visit fee, and ask what tests they perform for an RI. This is very confusing to me as one place it's only a 30$ visit and another, it's as much as 99$! No one will tell me what a test or treatment 'might' cost. (I explain I just need a ball park estimate so I know what I'm in for and can transfer $ if I need to). On top of that, most if the more expensive places say they only do a physical, and the place that's 30$ is the only one to do blood work. (But they haven't gotten back to me on cost of blood work). When I explained to one place (a middle priced one ) that I was looking to make sure I knew if it was bacterial or viral. The answer I got was basically this "We treat for viral because the only way to test for bacterial is an autopsy" .....then this person went on to tell me that if I had any other snakes that I should bring them in and get them treated as well.....seriously?

Please help me...I'm really lost on what to do and know I have to do something.

[MDT]

Mink....basically (apart from a fungal culture if that is suspected to be the causative organism), your snake should have a tracheal culture done. If bacteria were to grow, the lab would identify them perform the second part of the test---the sensitivity. This tests the most abundant bacteria in culture against (usually) 10 or so antibiotics to determine which antibiotic will be effective. If NOTHING grows out, then it's usually assumed to be viral. There are tests you can do for common viruses, but they're pretty $$, so the bacterial culture will typically suffice.

Sounds like what you are describing will need to be medically evaluated. You're going down the right path.

Btw, whoever told you the only way to test for bacteria was by autopsy and they treat for virus regardless.....they're an idiot.

[Minkness]

Thanks MDT! I'll ask for the tracheal culture.

In your experience, what is a general price range?

[MDT]

LOL...weeellllllll..........i only deal in "people" medicine. so, what does it REALLY cost vs what you're billed are two totally different things. if i order a culture and sensitivity in the ER, it'll be in the $300-400 range. if it's obtained outpatient, prob more in the $150-200 range (in reality, it prob costs the lab about $20-50 to run test)....

in vet med, it *should* be cheaper. however, i just couldn't begin to speculate on what these guys charge. i would caution to avoid the one that made the idiotic "autopsy" statement....you may pay with more than dollars :D

[Minkness]

Yeah. No autopsy vet >_>

I'll probably go to the cheaper one. I've heard of them before and was referred to them by someone when I was talking about getting snakes a while ago.

Though....should I get my other 2 checked? They have no symptoms....

[MDT]

that's a personal choice...on one hand, you could look at it like a "well child exam"....or a check up. it'll cost, so i guess you gotta determine if you want the preventative expense vs the "make me well" price.... in the ER, we typically are looking at the "make me well" version. much more costly :)

[yeloowtang]

I can't speak for the U.S prices ??? but in Canada the vet costs are about 90$ for the basic check up.
you can have two different swab tests done, one of witch they will look under the microscope right away to see if they can ID anything. this one is 30$

the second one is the culture growth mentioned above, this one goes from 120-150$ and will let the vet know the best course of action..

you can also get a stool sample done to see if internal parasites are present another 30$

in the majority of cases, the vet will inject and prescribe Baytril, this should be injected every 48H for a total of 10 injections.. you can have the vet do them all for a fee ot if you are capable of, do them your self..

some vets will prescribe Fortaz witch is a wider spectrum antibiotic and also easier on the snake, ususally injected every 72H for a total of 5 or 6 injections

you have to inject into the muscle in the top 1/3 of the snakes body.. some will say top 1/2 best is a little further up than half way.. this gives you nice muscle to inject in. If to low the antibiotic is filtered by the liver before it can do it's job, then it can cause liver problemes in the future.
the injections will cause a little bump that you can massage a little to help.
baytil can cause a burn and tissue damage if not injected properly, fortaz is better.
the vet should have these but if not, find a pharmacy that will sell you insulin syringes that are 0.3cc, the needles are verry small gauge and won't sting the snake that much when you inject between the scales at a 45deg angle.

both should work but often one doesn't like human antibiotics, you can get the wrong one at first, but it's important to finish with the prescription before switching.

things you should be doing now to prevent further problems are.
bump up the hot spot to a max of 92-95 and no cold spots bellow 85.. a sick snake will want to stay cold to slow down it's metabolism but in reality it needs to stay warm to get better..keep himidity where it should be..
you should also clean and desinfect the cage daily, and clean and refresh the water bowl daily also.. the dirty water bowls can harbor bacteria and this is what often combines with the RIs.. when the snake drinks it contaminates the water, si it's important to change it when trying to get a snake better..

when all said and done, you need to sit back and look at your husbadry to figure out why the snake got an RI in the first place, can be too cold or if the cage is kept clean.. as i mentioned , water bowls are bad if left for weeks with just top off, that slime bild up is the problem, that and haevy mold build up in the cage when it's too damp..

best of luck, one thing i will add !!! I hope i don't get flame for saying, but not all vets are qualified to do snakes, if you can't find a good herp vet, the other's can't help much, they will prescribe the first thing they have on hands and thats it..in that case you might as well order baytril online and do it yourself..

the best!! of course is finding a good herp vet that knows and has experience with snakes..
they will have a culture done to find the right meds and go from there, a blood test for an RI is not something that will help, you need a swab, culture and a clean and sterile eviroment for the snake.. if lucky, it will still eat while being treated.. but feed smaller prey if it does, when sick they will often strike,constric, try to eat and then just drop it.. DO NOT feed that rat to another snake, garbage is where it goes..

hope this helps

[Derek Roddy]

In the meantime (until you can get to the vet)
Let your snake have access to natural sunlight.
Sunlight is a "cure all" for reptiles and ive been able to clear up most cases of "RI" within a few days.
Now, don't put it in a glass tank but some sort of screen cage and place it where it's not in direct sunlight. About an hour to an hour and a half for a couple days will usually get it under control until you can get a check up to see what it actually is.

But most of the time (95% in my case) the sun will do the trick.

Just don't cook your snake. Stay with it to keep an eye on it.

Cheers and good luck.

D

[prairiepanda]

It's hard to get price estimates for these things. Veterinarians are running a business, and they can mark up their prices as much or as little as they want. There can be huge discrepancies between vets in their prices for any procedure. $30 does seem low for a checkup though, especially with a reptile vet, so they may charge more for their procedures and tests than other vets. If you can find one that has an in-house lab they'll probably be cheaper and get your results faster. Don't waste your money on blood work for an RI; just get a swab cultured to test for antibiotic response.

[Minkness]

Thanks guys! Knowing all of this will be very helpful when I get to actually talking to the vets.

As for husbandry...I may be wrong, but I don't know if it was me, or possibly something he picked up at the con. I don't feel that I have had him very long yet. I admit I was having issues with humidity at first. Not enough, too much, not enough.

What are some ways to better balance it? My other 2 snakes have no issues in feeding, shedding, breathing, or anything. I'm almost tempted to rehome the BP because it's just one issue after another with him....but I would hate to rehome him while he's sick.....uhg...so stressful and frustrating for a beginner x.x

[yeloowtang]

It may not be you at all and as you said, it came with it .. if it's not severe, getting it cured shouldn't be to hard.. most likely a rehome could stress it more..

if i were you, i would at least keep it away (in another room) from the other animlas, because depending on what it is, it could transmit to the other snakes..
when taking care of it, makes sure to sanitize yourself, best is to care for the Ball python last, once you've cared for the other animals..

to help with humidity, we would need to know about the cage and heat source.

if you have it in a glass tank with a screen top , heated with a heat lamp !!!! that's most likely your problem there.. you need to cover the screen and best would be a radiant heat panel inside.. but if the heat lamp is all you have.. cover most of it with glass or plexi. then use the aluminium ( foil) tape to cover the rest by leaving the shape of the dome cut out..
this way you will keeo most of the humidity inside the cage..
otherwise, if the screen is left as is, the lamp acts as a chimeney and sucks out all the humidity, you can spray 10 times a day and it still will dry out..
you will find yourself with a soaked cage and no humidity..

with the top sealed off, your heat will create the humidity by spraying once every couple of days or every day if it's crazy dry where you live, it only really needs to be 50% + -on normal days and bumped up to 70% when getting ready to shed.. as long as it doesn't yoyo from 20-80% all the time, keeping it near 50% and raising for sheds is perfect.. if you have a big enough cage, setting up a humid hide with spagmoss is another good way of helping the snake for sheds..

DEREK : that's interesting , thanks for sharing ..i've only read about that a few times but never has anyone actualy done it that i know of to have a tested case that this helped...
interesting for sure.. hope i never have to test it myself :) but happy to know about it..

[Minkness]

He is actually in a tub with locking ends, a hide, a water dish large enough to soak in, and 'lizard litter' (like super small aspen chips). Heat source is a UTH. As for separating into an entirely different room....I WISH I had that option...sadly all my reps must be kept in my room per house rules, however, I do save any handling or feeding for last, and don't share the meal if its not eaten. (Other 2 are way too small anyway) and I throw my cloths in the 'wash' pile and don't wear again until washed in hot water with detergent. I'm doing the best I can with limited space.

[Minkness]

Also, booked a time for friday with the vet that's cheap, but after talking to a tech and not just the lady at the desk, they said they can do trach swabs as well and have their own lab onsite. =)

[MDT]

Also, booked a time for friday with the vet that's cheap, but after talking to a tech and not just the lady at the desk, they said they can do trach swabs as well and have their own lab onsite. =)


BOOM...one and done :D

[Albert Clark]

So much advice I don't think I will go into my thoughts about what I feel you should do. I feel like you've received a plethora of information and you already started your course of action. I do wish you the best and hope that everything works out with the bp. Hopefully you caught it early and it will be easily treatable. Good luck and chalk it up to growing and learning through experience. My fingers are crossed for a positive outcome. :cool:

[Minkness]

Oh man....I hate going to the vet...freaks me out every time x.x

Anyway...got Moko to the vet. They said it was caught VERY early and should be quick to fix. He was started on Baytril injections. Since I am new to it all, the vet said I could bring him in at no charge to administer the shots! (Made my day!)

However, the first tech to show me to my room was terrified of snakes and apparently was expecting a 12 foot bermese instead of a small BP.... She said she was trying to overcome her fear of snakes, and at least touched Moko before running off to find a tech more comfortable with snakes. This one didn't even know the symptoms of an RI and kept calling it a URI. So happy that lady left.... It was amusing to a degree, but I am also sick (head cold probably turning into a chest cold) and was in less than an enthusiastic mood myself.

Thank god the next tech was cool, and the vet was pretty awesome.

Apparently just because a clinic services exotics, doesn't mean everyone is ok with them. Just another learning experience for me. Also....it was the 1st tech's 1st week there, so she was also new and I think still in school.

Overall experience...8/10.

In the end Moko got what he needed for a price I could afford, and the actual vet was pretty awesome.

I also came home and sterilized his tub and put paper towels down before putting him away. How often should I do this? I don't want to do it daily since he stresses out pretty easily anyway, but the shots are every 3 days. Would it be ok to sterilize at this time to lessen his stress between injections?

[Albert Clark]

Great job Mink!! Kudos to you for stepping up to the plate and doing the research. Don't you feel good about that? I wouldn't go crazy and overdo the sterilization but I would keep the enclosure sanitary by removing any waste products as soon as I see it. Check the tub twice a day should suffice. Make sure the bp has plenty of water bc baytril is hard on the kidneys and he needs to stay hydrated. If you see him drinking water that's good. If not , when you check on him place him in his soaking dish. This way he can absorb water through the cloaca and the soft tissue beneath the scales. When the baytril regimen is complete he is going to need some acidophilus to replace some of the good intestinal bacteria that was lost. Great call and good job!

[Minkness]

And where would I get the acidophilus?

[Albert Clark]

just ask the vet. they probably stock it there.

[MDT]

what organism did they isolate?

[Minkness]

They didn't go into it with me o.o