Have beliefs?

[ReptiZone]

good point dom Hmmmmm.....a burm, a retic or a rock

I think they should be like alcohol you need to be of age or it is not good to your healt or in many cases parents let there kids drink under there supervision ei X-mas, new years and so on

at 18 or 19 a person becomes responsible for his/her actions there for they should become responsible for his/her pet.

meaning a lets say a 13 year old has a burm and it kills his friend who is babysiting it for the week who gets sued not the kid...... his parents he is not yet responsible for his/her actions or his/her pets

just a thaught lets debat it all the under age herpers may have some good points to add

Chondro Python

[marisa]

I think owning a burm or retic shoud be live driving a car. Some are ready by the age of 16...this would obviously be the teens who have had a strong interest in herps and show they are able to deal with such a large animal....

But for those who aren't ready to drive a car...they have to take the test again, and again and again until they prove they want to drive that car. A car can also be a lethal weapon and I believe burm/retic sales should reflect this sort of structure. Those who are ready are ready, and if not, then you can't have one. If a person truely wants one to care for and not because they are "cool" then they really would have no arguement to this sort of thing. (making a license for minors a must)

The only real problem I see with this is enforcing it, and giving out the permits.

Marisa

[Dom]

I think age has nothing to do with it.. u could be 35, 65 or 13 and still not own a large boid.. the queston is are u smart enough to know how..

The problem with younger kids lets say 17 and under.. as much as they can know there stuff.. THEY CAN NOT garantee they will keep the animal.. nor can an adult but have a greater chance..

The teen will go to school eventually .. get an other jog .. colledge maybe and then move out.. what makes u think the large boid can follow.. there always more restraint by money also..

Basically .. its not a matter of age but more a matter of stability, responsibility and knoledge.. Just the way I feel

Dom

[BWSmith]

hmmm, maybe we should start a new thread.

[ReptiZone]

good point marisa but once you pass the writen test for a car a person needs to have a certin amount of hours behind the weel with a pro or a parent I think it is 8 to 12 monts

we should have programs for thos Kind ppl because they dont necessarly have bad intention they just need a hand to guide them properly

chondro Python

[ReptiZone]

when I think of it we should

[reverendsterlin]

as for age for large animals, before a kid can drive he most go through training and then be certified with a license. I figure if experienced keepers of giants, that could convince game & fish that they are capable of teaching others, could get some type of handling certification course running and even show both kids and parents the real housing and feeding costs associated with the big ones. BUT, I'll always be suspicious of any herp regulation laws no matter how well intended.

[Dom]

Well I spilt it like u asked :) ...

These are great debates guys .. lets keep em like this :):):):):):):)

[marisa]

Exactly. Getting to drive a car means pratice...i.e. learning about cars, and how to operate them properly. You want a rock python so you have to take a class, or spend time voluntering somewhere that has one, take a test, any number of options could be implemented. Anyone needs a license to drive, 14 or 41...so the same thing would apply to anyone. I don't think this is outlandish. Getting one simple permit.

And besides, people who obviously have the experience and already own retics and burms wouldn't be getting a permit per snake. But to keep them as a species.

But I agree with reverendsterlin that anything like this could turn out for the worse and it would be very suspicous to most at first. But just an idea.

I know that its bad press when one of these things happens. But can anyone point me to somewhere where I could view a number of times this has happened in the last year or whatever? How often a large snake actually causes a problem?

Marisa

[norman]

i think it depends on your sitution...im 17 and living with my girlfreind, and we found a appartment that allows reptiles. im not saying i own a burm,retic or rock, the biggest thing i own is a surinam rtb. but what im saying is that i agree with how people should have to go though a test or something to get a "licence" but i thiink that as long as you are big enough to handle it safely, then you should be able to get a licence.(or for something like a burm, you have 2 people that are big enough to handle it.) and also a guarantee that you will be able to house and feed it properly.
for myself i am confident that i can care for and handle the small collection i have.
wow...sorry, once again ive voiced my opinion in the longest possible way.

[Snake Lady]

hey!

I think that getting a "licence to own big reptiles" is a good idea also. Maybe it could be like some sort of a written test that you would study out of a manual but also to have the license you would have to have a certain amount of hours taking care of big reptiles..showing you could do it because maybe you could be smart and all and past that test because you studied your butt off but that doesnt mean you can handle a 12' burm!

Also, when the buyers go buy these wonderful animals..the breeder should ask and should have record of that buyer's license. So that when that buyer wants to get rid of that animal for an unjustifiable reason, then he should be fined or something...because i think why buy it if you cant take care of it?!

Snake Lady:)

[stormyva]

This debate could go on and on.... what good is it going to do?
The same debate can be applied to having children! Simple fix for that, use birth control, but people are too stupid to do that too!
For snakes, as long as there is commercial profit to be gained from the sale of snakes there is going to be a problem. No matter what we say or do there is always going to be a stupid kid that will buy that cute little albino burm and think it's cool. All we can do is stick together and basically do damage control.... make sure the animals are placed into good home if need be and give good advice to those who ask.
IMO if we push laws to combat the sale of Burms and retics it is going to in some way shape or form hurt those of us in the hobby that are responsible owners.

[Nanashi04]

I think a test and license are a great idea. I'm 16, and there's no way I'd go for a big snake - I know I can't handle it right now. If there was a class or something, I'd be thrilled to take it! it's too bad there isn't enought interest here. :(

[Snake Lady]

Its nice to hear that there are responsible teens here nanashi04!
im 17 and the only reason why i would by one is because my bf is older than me and has experience in the field! lol

Snake Lady :)

[The_Omen]

good point dom Hmmmmm.....a burm, a retic or a rock

I think they should be like alcohol you need to be of age or it is not good to your healt or in many cases parents let there kids drink under there supervision ei X-mas, new years and so on

at 18 or 19 a person becomes responsible for his/her actions there for they should become responsible for his/her pet.

meaning a lets say a 13 year old has a burm and it kills his friend who is babysiting it for the week who gets sued not the kid...... his parents he is not yet responsible for his/her actions or his/her pets

just a thaught lets debat it all the under age herpers may have some good points to add

Chondro Python

What?
I am very fluent in two languages, English and Bad English.
Just a thought, but maybe spell check can help out a bit, cause following your posts as written is extremely difficult.
Normally I don't say much about spelling, but run on sentence structure with grammatical and spelling errors is a pita to read AND prevent a migraine..

[Alicewave]

Hmm, I don't have any problem following it. I don't think it's necessary to point out spelling mistakes. Lots of times people only have a few minutes to post their thought and while ideally it would be nice if everyone could go back and proofread, that's not always realistic.

[BWSmith]

At least it was pointed out tactfully. And it took me a few times reading the post to figure it out as well. Just with little punctuation it makes it difficult to follow the train of thought. I have had to go back many times and edit my posts for stuff like that. I am notorious for splitting short words like "att he" rather than "at the".

[BWSmith]

uh, and can a Mod or Admin change the title of this thread. It is really confusing have 2 threads that originated from one with the same title. Maybe "Have Beliefs? (Giant Snakes)" or soemthing so I can keep them straight :D

[snakemann87]

I also agree with the license to own large snakes. Even though i own a burmese at the time and I'm also 15, before i got one, i did my research and prepared myself. I didn't go out and buy one as my first snake, my first was a ball python, then a boa. I built a 4x2x2, and my dad and I are working on a bigger one. When i decided i may get a burmese, i went over my dads friends who owns two large boas which are 8' and 7' and handled them for an hour or two. I got a job to be able to feed them properly, and i also had expierience handling a large female 16' burmese at an animal park, they let me help put it back after the snake show.

[ReptiZone]

Umm as for the reply by The_Omen..i think that was rude! Bad english? Some people are excited about what they are writting and they dont really pay attention to the mistakes..and some dont really have time to spell check like someone else said. I re-read the post by chondro python and as i recall there are what? 3 spelling mistakes? all i can say is that i dont think that reply was written to be nice. I think you should take your comments to some other place. We are not here to fight or to argue over peoples spelling mistakes.

Snake Lady :)

[Snake Lady]

oops i forgot to sign out of my bf's name! That response was meant for me!

Snake Lady

[snakemann87]

lol snakelady. but i know what ya mean, i always do that, try typing too fast, and ya know what? everyone replied, what does that mean? they understood it, so who cares!!!!!!!!!!!!:D

[rethius]

MY spelling sucks and I have a 3.8 gpa! Who gives a ####!
Keep on truckin!

[rethius]

opps I thought that would be blopped out
-----what I ment to say!----
"who gives a *%#&"
thank you,
and now back to your local program...

[snakemann87]

i have a 3.6:) you can click edit under the post with the swear word and remove it, please.

[marisa]

He was just saying it was hard to follow, which I agree with myself. Not a big deal of course but hard to read. Those things matter when you are trying to get your opinion across, they weren't spelling errors so much but grammer errors which made it hard to read.

Big deal? Of course not. Maybe he wanted him to make his point clearer. Again another case where one person was probably trying to point it out nicely, and other people think he is being rude. You can't guess what someone else is meaning online...another reason clarity helps.

Marisa

[ReptiZone]

thanx guys I will try to be more careful

[Lisa]

Ok now that the great spelling debate is straightened out, lets get back to the snake debate.

I don't think we should push any laws restricting the herp keeping hobby until they are needed. When are they needed? when the law makers start considering regulating them. why give the idea to make a law before the idea is on the books? when you give the law makers one idea they can always twist and pervert it into the idea to ban the hobby outright or other special intrest groups (peta, humane society) may notice and start pushing their agenda.

Instead we should be pushing to self regulate by edjucating the breeders and stores that would sell to anyone and everyone to make a buck that this sort of behavior just results in a short term income and an eventual banning of their very livelyhood that feeds their families. Getting stores to include caresheets with the animal would be a good step (with out legislating them to do it).

The less we have the government paying attention to the hobby the better, it keeps our taxes down and it keeps some cival servent who either doesn't care about or care for the hobby from making decisions for us. The last thing we need is some one like Kursix's parents (just an example here) deciding that they don't want anyone keeping the symbol of satan anywhere near them (their neighbourhood, city, province/state or country) and unreasonably outlawing the hobby.

Another thing. The law makers reflect the will of the "majority". Unfortunetly herp keepers are a small minority (I know, everyone should own a herp). If organisations such as the humane society start telling people that herp keeping is bad and out of control and everyone's children are in danger of being eaten or killed by blood thirsty cold blooded animals you can bet they will be more likely to inform their representive of their will. The less bad press and more positive education we can get out there the better it is for the hobby.

Show the general public that the hobby is safe and benificial to society and mankind in general. How is it benificial? well the more captive bred animals being kept the less danger of depleting already endagered numbers of species in the wild. How does that help mankind? nature stays in a better balance, resulting in fewer vermin attacking farmers crops and the need for less pesticides. Also should the wild populations of any species become extinct they can be reintroduced into the wild from captive bred populations.

[The_Omen]

Here is one of the biggest issues with large boids in captivity.

Go ahead, start all the classes you want, get a licensing program started.

It doesn't matter.

Pet stores and some breeders will still sell them to people that aren't ready for them.
Book smarts and knowing an awful lot about a certain type of animal does NOT make up for experience with one.
Handling one once, does in no way make you ready to own one either.
Having the proper permits AND a check of your knowledge and set up by a government appointed checker, will not show your true experience.

Even if you are a young person, with true experience, things in life change.
That cute snake you got when you were 15 or 16 is now a 13 footer.
Guess what?
Mom and dad say it has to go now since it isn't cute and small like the pet store said it would be.
You are smart and do great in school and get a scholarship or you plan furthering your education.
Guess what?
Most schools don't allow pets like that in dorms.
Mom and dad say they aren't keeping it for you either.
Mom and dad agree to keep it for you while you are away for a short time and you meet the love of your life, your (gag) soulmate.
Guess what?
She/he will have nothing to do with it and urge you to get rid of it.
You don't want to be stuck in school so you opt for military and will be gone for at least 3 months.
Sure, some times mom and dad will keep it for ya then, BUT when you graduate basic you find out that the base you are on does not allow such pets.
Move off base?
Well, base housing follows pretty much the rules of the base.
Get an apartment?
Good luck finding one that will let you keep snakes period and does NOT call AC to remove it the first time they hear of it AND evict you for violating the contract. And have a possibility of being charged with violating any local or state laws already in effect for restricting ownership of large constrictors.

Lots of things that humans NEVER consider, mainly due to spurr of the moment purchases and thinking, it will never happen to me.

That's life, people change and so do their situations.

Here's more.
Cute snake when I bought it and I was told it could live in a ten gal all its life, but now I am scared of it and it has to go.

My roomate owns it but he split and ran and left them here. I don't want them.

The phone rings, it's AC asking you to come pick up a 15 footer they found in the park after someone released it.

It bit my son on the arm and that scared me, it has to go now.

I am pregnant and I am scared to get salmonella from it, it has to go now.

All different types of things that life tosses us.

If you want a large constrictor, then get your SELF established in life FIRST!
Get through school or whatever restricts your time and energies along with $$.
Buy a house in an area that you not only like, but is in an area that does not have them outlawed. The large boid may need its own room soon.
Get all applicable permits required, especially if you plan to delve into hots one day.
Make sure that your lifetime commitment is something you are ready for, not just for you, but for ANYONE that resides with you.

There are many more points i can stress, but I really want you to do your own thinking here.

[BWSmith]

Omen, take a breath ;)

But I do agree with much of what you said. But i dont think that a permit system is feasible.

[snakemann87]

lol that has got to be one of the biggest posts ive seen yet, shows your dedicated to this subject.

[norman]

no doubt...you made some good points there omen.

[BurmBaroness]

Here is a case in point, and why I am opposed to 99% of kids owning large boids
http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=11089