Feed in the enclosure or out of it?

[Pogie]

I've read different opinions on if you should feed the snake in its home or out of it. What do you all do?

[metalcopper]

Feed in, no need to take them out, unless you're using a substrate that you're worried about them swallowing.

[EL Ziggy]

I feed all my snakes inside their enclosures. Never had any issues with aggression or ingested substrate.

[reptiledude987]

I agree. but even if substrate consumption is a concern you can put the food item on a plate or paper towel to prevent ingestion. moving them in and out of the enclosure just causes undue stress.

[Pogie]

Thank you for the replies. I just wanted someones opinion who I can actually ask and not read on the internet. I fed Tyrion his first mouse today since I got him and he ate like a champ! Makes mother so proud rotfl....I was worried about feeding f/t since the guy at the store was giving him live since he got him, but no problem in that area :)

[millertime89]

Thank you for the replies. I just wanted someones opinion who I can actually ask and not read on the internet. I fed Tyrion his first mouse today since I got him and he ate like a champ! Makes mother so proud rotfl....I was worried about feeding f/t since the guy at the store was giving him live since he got him, but no problem in that area :)

I'm happy for you. :)

As others have said, there's really no reason to not feed in his enclosure. I've fed every snake I've ever owned in their enclosure and have never once had a problem, even with substrate.

[RAD House]

There seems to be two very differing opinions about this topic and they seem to highly segregated by source. Almost all care guides I read suggest feeding in a separate container, but most if not all on forums seem to agree that feeding in the tank is best. I can't understand why there is such a difference of opinions and why the two sources seem so split. Initially due to the care guide advice and now due to my personal preference, I have always fed in a separate container.

[millertime89]

Care guides are generally based on old info, put together by people that don't have much experience, and are never updated. Ask breeders who keep large numbers of the animals what they recommend. Aaron and Jerry (the snake man) are great sources here as they have tons of experience.

[Bluz Brotherz]

I feed all of my animals inside the enclosure except for my two female KSB's who I separate to avoid a potential vet visit and bloody hand. That's really the only true reason to feed in separate containers, to avoid tussles over food between communally-kept specimens.

[SSSSnakes]

Care guides are generally based on old info, put together by people that don't have much experience, and are never updated. Ask breeders who keep large numbers of the animals what they recommend. Aaron and Jerry (the snake man) are great sources here as they have tons of experience.

Thanks for the vote of confidence. As stated I always feed in their enclosures. It makes the snake feel more secure and less chance of you getting bit.

[RAD House]

Well I certainly hope they weigh in. I have a few specific concerns about this issue. I know people say they eat of the dirt in the wild and I agree, but just based on the likelihood of dirt causing impaction compared to wood shavings I don't see this as a valid point. Due to the particle size of aspen shavings compared to fine grains of dirt seem to suggest it would get impacted much more easily. Also I feel like there is some trust building associated in the process of taking them out to feed. I have noticed that since I started doing this that they are pretty keen when I am taking them out to feed compared to taking them out to "socialize" them. They tend to fuse a lot less on feeding day when being handled, probably a learned behavior as I feed them on the same day every week. Also after their meal they now more or less crawl onto my hand to get put back into their enclosure. Not once during this process has a regurg occurred. So if you are tong feeding and not touching the snake what so ever then do you earn as much trust? The last reason is just to be able to monitor their eating. My guys both trash around quite a bit before beginning to swallow, and if fact sometimes after this show they simply drop the mouse and seem to explore. I have gotten into the habit of getting them interested in the mouse again by wiggling it around with the tongs, which always seem to do the trick. Would it be more stressful for the snake for me to be tearing up its enclosure to make sure the mouse is eaten or gently handle it to and from its enclosure? Plus it is gives me peace of mind having no doubts. The last point may just be a personal one as I tend to obsess. I would like to hear your thoughts on this.

[RAD House]

Also I assume that both the old and new information came from personal experience of mainly breeders, so I am just curious as to why the new holds so much validity in forums.

[Pogie]

I always thought if you are suppose to feed them in a different area, and then your told not to handle them after they eat how do you get them back home? On the other hand I also understand if you didn't they got aggressive because they associated you opening the door with feeding time and would bite the hand that feeds them lol. Anyway that's what all the info that I have run into until I started reading this forum. I prefer to feed him in his own enclosure. That's pretty much why I joined so I could actually "talk" to people who have snakes and not just read about it :)

[RAD House]

I am with you pogie it is nice actually discuss such matters and not just read them. I think the biggest reason to not handle after feeding is to not cause a regurgitation due to stress. From my personal experience and what I have read this would only happen with a long time being handled not just a short trip back into their tank.

[Pogie]

Oh lol, well I don't want to hurt Tyrion so I want to do things right. I thought if you just picked them up it make them up their lunch. But again that's why I'm here, to learn.

Another reason I asked was because I have read that kingsnakes are aggressive feeders and it's not a good idea to handle them even if they are full because they can go into a feeding frenzy of some sort. Again not sure but just what I've been reading. If that's the case I much rather feed him in his home rather than chance a bite moving him around during such a feeding rotfl.

I don't mind the thoughts of getting bit but I really don't want to encourage it either :)

[reptiledude987]

The only time i remove anything from the enclosure is to seperate my carpets taht live together. If I were to feed all by animals out of their enclosures I'd need 20+ bins and if I were to split up feeding days I'd still be feeding multiple animals 7 days a week. So for me its not only less stress for the animal being moved around with a full belly but much simpler and efficient to feed them in their vivs.

[millertime89]

Well I certainly hope they weigh in. I have a few specific concerns about this issue. I know people say they eat of the dirt in the wild and I agree, but just based on the likelihood of dirt causing impaction compared to wood shavings I don't see this as a valid point. Due to the particle size of aspen shavings compared to fine grains of dirt seem to suggest it would get impacted much more easily. Also I feel like there is some trust building associated in the process of taking them out to feed. I have noticed that since I started doing this that they are pretty keen when I am taking them out to feed compared to taking them out to "socialize" them. They tend to fuse a lot less on feeding day when being handled, probably a learned behavior as I feed them on the same day every week. Also after their meal they now more or less crawl onto my hand to get put back into their enclosure. Not once during this process has a regurg occurred. So if you are tong feeding and not touching the snake what so ever then do you earn as much trust? The last reason is just to be able to monitor their eating. My guys both trash around quite a bit before beginning to swallow, and if fact sometimes after this show they simply drop the mouse and seem to explore. I have gotten into the habit of getting them interested in the mouse again by wiggling it around with the tongs, which always seem to do the trick. Would it be more stressful for the snake for me to be tearing up its enclosure to make sure the mouse is eaten or gently handle it to and from its enclosure? Plus it is gives me peace of mind having no doubts. The last point may just be a personal one as I tend to obsess. I would like to hear your thoughts on this.

Jerry commented above, he's SSSSnakes, I couldn't remember his screen name earlier.

Dirt and other bedding doesn't pose a risk for impaction if the snake is healthy. Impaction is typically caused by too large of prey items, power feeding, or dehydration. If you use paper towels or newspaper or something similar for bedding then this risk is removed. If you're really worried about it then you can feed on a plate. I've done it in the past and it worked well for me and others here.

They're more alert when you take them out to feed because they can smell food. Just like you and I are more aware of food when we can smell it. Ever noticed how your mouth waters when you smell something you find appetizing? Same idea. They fuss more because they're fighting two instinctual urges, to get food and be safe while doing so.

I handle when they're not feeding. I don't want to stress them out any more. Snakes are mostly defenseless while eating. I won't start a discussion on "trust" here. if you want to do some more reading on that, it's in another thread. Don't start it here, this is a feeding discussion.

I certainly monitor my snakes while they eat. Being in or out of their enclosure doesn't change my ability to do that.

Also I assume that both the old and new information came from personal experience of mainly breeders, so I am just curious as to why the new holds so much validity in forums.

Not really. Most of the old info is based on assumptions about snakes. The newer info is based primarily on repeated experiences with the animals.

I always thought if you are suppose to feed them in a different area, and then your told not to handle them after they eat how do you get them back home? On the other hand I also understand if you didn't they got aggressive because they associated you opening the door with feeding time and would bite the hand that feeds them lol. Anyway that's what all the info that I have run into until I started reading this forum. I prefer to feed him in his own enclosure. That's pretty much why I joined so I could actually "talk" to people who have snakes and not just read about it :)

They can get food aggressive when being taken out for feeding time because they see the feeding tub and associate that with feeding time as well.

[Klinger]

I have kept snakes on and off since the nineties, and feed mine in a separate enclosure. The snakes never stress, and find and eat right away! It may be true they do not get aggressive when fed in their home, but it gives me a good chance to spot clean while they eat, and I always wait 20 minutes after the food is gone before putting them back. No regurge, no troubles. I can see how having multitudes of snakes would make this impractical, however. It's the way I have, and will keep doing it.

[CK SandBoas]

I feed all my snakes in their tubs or their enclosures...never had an issue with aggression with any of them when I've removed them. The only time I've removed a snake to feed in a deli cup is for picky neonate sand boas, but I then place the deli cup back in the tub.....

[EL Ziggy]

I used to feed my first snake in a separate enclosure for the first month or so after I got him. After joining this forum and through my own personal experiences I've learned that feeding them in their enclosures is less stressful for me and the snakes. My kings and bulls go bananas at feeding time. I wouldn't want to try handling them when they're in a feeding frenzy which can sometimes last for an hour or two after feeding them. That's just asking to get tagged. It's so much easier to let them snatch the prey from tongs and to just leave them alone afterwards.

[Pogie]

I used to feed my first snake in a separate enclosure for the first month or so after I got him. After joining this forum and through my own personal experiences I've learned that feeding them in their enclosures is less stressful for me and the snakes. My kings and bulls go bananas at feeding time. I wouldn't want to try handling them when they're in a feeding frenzy which can sometimes last for an hour or two after feeding them. That's just asking to get tagged. It's so much easier to let them snatch the prey from tongs and to just leave them alone afterwards.

That's exactly why I asked :D
Like I said I want to avoid any action that "might" get me nipped lol.

[RAD House]

I am not trying to bring up the idea of snakes having feelings. I mean trust in the sense that they feel more relaxed around you as a learned behavior. Fuss to me is more alert and active. Many of the care sheets I have read where from breeders. It seems to me that many people think that bedding can in fact cause intestinal blockage, do you know for a fact that it can not? I know that wood can cause intestinal blockage in dogs as their systems are not built to handle this type of material. As far as true handling goes I also handle when they are not feeding. I totally understand why someone with many snakes would not want to remove every single snake to feed them due to time constraints.

[millertime89]

I used to feed my first snake in a separate enclosure for the first month or so after I got him. After joining this forum and through my own personal experiences I've learned that feeding them in their enclosures is less stressful for me and the snakes. My kings and bulls go bananas at feeding time. I wouldn't want to try handling them when they're in a feeding frenzy which can sometimes last for an hour or two after feeding them. That's just asking to get tagged. It's so much easier to let them snatch the prey from tongs and to just leave them alone afterwards.

This is something else to consider. Retics, carpets, burms, and plenty of other species have quite a large feeding response and when they smell food, they'll go for anything with a heat signature or that moves (or both). Some will even be in feed mode for a few days after eating. Several of my retics are like this.

[EL Ziggy]

This is something else to consider. Retics, carpets, burms, and plenty of other species have quite a large feeding response and when they smell food, they'll go for anything with a heat signature or that moves (or both). Some will even be in feed mode for a few days after eating. Several of my retics are like this.

I couldn't imagine trying to move a retic or burm when they're in feeding mode. No way!

[millertime89]

I couldn't imagine trying to move a retic or burm when they're in feeding mode. No way!

Nobody that I know of does it. It's a recipe for a disaster.

[SSSSnakes]

I agree with everything that EL-Ziggy and millertime89 have said. I have seen my Burm strike and miss the food item and get a mouth full of shavings, then grab the food and swallow all the shavings and the food item. He has never become impacted or had any issue with eating some wood shavings. I have never found a snake to become aggressive because he was fed in his enclosure.

[reptiledude987]

I dont doubt it. Even with my big carpets i make sure theyre seperated before the food comes out of the freezer. I made that mistake once and never again

[RAD House]

Yeah that sounds like a nightmare, but most snake owners will never have to deal with this and hopefully the ones that do know what they are getting into. It would be nice from a beginner's point of perspective if there were more consensus with in the reptile community, but that is most likely not going to happen. I have heard so many different opinions on so many things since getting a snake in November.

[SSSSnakes]

Yeah that sounds like a nightmare, but most snake owners will never have to deal with this and hopefully the ones that do know what they are getting into. It would be nice from a beginner's point of perspective if there were more consensus with in the reptile community, but that is most likely not going to happen. I have heard so many different opinions on so many things since getting a snake in November.

With over 35 years of experience, keeping hundreds of snakes at a time, having kept more than a thousand different species and work with snakes every day, it not really opinion on the subject but experience. But as I always say, whatever works best for you.

[Pogie]

That's why these forums are a good thing. I will go with the experienced keepers any time.

[jjhill001]

I think that it's all a matter of personal preference. I think that impaction risks increase if a reptile is a neonate. If a small snake swallows a whole chunk of mulch they are much more likely to have an issue than if a full grown snake ingests some inadvertently. Hydration is obviously an issue as well. Incidentally neonate a also have the most problems with this as well.

[RAD House]

Well Jerry if you want to pluck hairs I would have to argue that it is your opinion based on a whole lot of experience. An opinion that I respect, but still an opinion. Also is newspaper really that good for snake bedding? I have read mixed opinions about our local newspaper being petroleum based, and that is enough to scare me off of it. Not to mention even soy bean based inks can use ingredients like sulfur and a petroleum based resin.

[SSSSnakes]

Well Jerry if you want to pluck hairs I would have to argue that it is your opinion based on a whole lot of experience. An opinion that I respect, but still an opinion. Also is newspaper really that good for snake bedding? I have read mixed opinions about our local newspaper being petroleum based, and that is enough to scare me off of it. Not to mention even soy bean based inks can use ingredients like sulfur and a petroleum based resin.

Experience is experience, I state the results of my experience and add no opinion to it. I have used newspaper for over 30 years and have no bad results with it. Personally, I don't care if people want to learn from my experience or not, all my snakes are fine. But I learn from other people's experiences. I don't see were I was plucking hairs, I was just participating in this thread, attacking no one, but obviously you like to hear yourself talk when people disagree with you, so go on.

[RAD House]

All I said I wish there was more of a consensus, and you felt the need to make it clear you are above opinion and any other information I have read. Had you not said anything, I had already held your opinion above the others here. Like I said I tend to obsess about things, but I know my fallacies well. Also I don't do well with people that need to push their authority on me. If you want to have a discussion about the difference between opinion and fact we can, but I don't think it is applicable to this thread. Feel free to write me a private message. If helps you forget it, I am aware you are much more knowledgeable than me about reptile care.

[Derek1]

Used to be a outty but now I'm a Inny, no Bruce Jenner pun intended. Inny is the way to go.

[EL Ziggy]

Nice metaphor Derek. :)

[millertime89]

All I said I wish there was more of a consensus, and you felt the need to make it clear you are above opinion and any other information I have read. Had you not said anything, I had already held your opinion above the others here. Like I said I tend to obsess about things, but I know my fallacies well. Also I don't do well with people that need to push their authority on me. If you want to have a discussion about the difference between opinion and fact we can, but I don't think it is applicable to this thread. Feel free to write me a private message. If helps you forget it, I am aware you are much more knowledgeable than me about reptile care.

There is consensus among people with tons of experience. The only people that really advocate for feeding outside of the enclosure is from people that are still relatively new to the hobby or only have experience with a few species or a few animals at a time.

Used to be a outty but now I'm a Inny, no Bruce Jenner pun intended. Inny is the way to go.

I chuckled.

[MDT]

Like I said I tend to obsess about things.

MC....try not to obsess man....it seems lots of folks really overthink this stuff and make it harder than it needs to be.

[RAD House]

Ok I hear you millertime. I guess then do you see any wind falls about changing their routines? Or should I just go for it?

[RAD House]

Thanks for understanding MDT, but it is not always that easy.

[millertime89]

I would just go for it.

[Nuxodom]

There seems to be two very differing opinions about this topic and they seem to highly segregated by source. Almost all care guides I read suggest feeding in a separate container, but most if not all on forums seem to agree that feeding in the tank is best. I can't understand why there is such a difference of opinions and why the two sources seem so split. Initially due to the care guide advice and now due to my personal preference, I have always fed in a separate container.

I used to feed in-tank, decades ago, but it did make my snakes aggressive when I took them out. Now I feed out of tank and have never had a regurgitation issue. The only issue is: they are aggressive when getting them out of the feeding bin, but if you just be patient and start to pick them up, they quickly learn it's you, not food, and become passive.

I'd rather them show the aggressive posture only when I take them out of the feeding bin rather than every time I take them out of their home enclosure; but, that's just my preference.

[lady_bug87]

I haven't fed out of a bin or enclosure in years. I don't want to move a hungry boa. Here's how I get around the "aggression" issue (which is false since there isn't much of one)

I handle during the day and I always feed at night. I never mix the 2.

When it comes to impaction, I use newspaper mostly so I don't worry to much about it now. That being said, impaction is a husbandry/ food size issue. Not a substrate issue.

That being said, if someone is worried about it make sure the food item is dry when offered, and consider moving towards a substrate like coco husk.

[Princess-dad]

Hi after reading the reasoning behind feeding in the enclosure as a posed to out I tried it . Worked really well for my bci not so much for the corn though . The corn acted stressed about being out in the larger open area and refused to eat , next day in the bin he normally eats in he attacked the new offering and eat when I put the bins lid on .