Help snake identification Costa Rica

[Aether]

Hi everyone, Could someone recognize this small (baby?) snake I found in my home. I'm in Costa Rica, Guanacaste, estamos en la temporada seca, en mas o menos un mes llovarà.
Se los agradezco mucho.
https://scontent-mia.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/11136646_10153080125614504_3266661185542348264_n.j pg?oh=8f6103e2d81991b33332209bd437641d&oe=55A41109

[millertime89]

After searching for a while I belive it to be Xenodon rabdocephalus, the False Fer De Lance. Seems to be a rear fanged venomous snake.

[millertime89]

Also

http://i.imgur.com/QjbasRJ.png

[FWK]

It looks strikingly similar to the Lyre Snakes we have in Texas (build, head shape, eyes). Trimorphodon quadruplex or Central American Lyre Snakes are native to Costa Rica and the pattern is spot on.

[FWK]

Sorry I was a bit rushed, I'm at work. Lyre Snakes are rear fanged and mildly venomous, though not dangerous to humans. Very nice find and great picture, thanks for sharing. There is a huge variety of snakes in Central America that we don't get to see much of, if you have any more pictures or come across any more critters we'd love to see them.

[Aether]

Thank you guys, I always loved snakes but never been part of a community....maybe this can be it. I encounter a blind snake the other day, one of the smalles, was beautiful, too bad I didn't take some pics.

I took more photos. I would like to identify this snake and be 100% sure is it. I could even take photos of the inside of his mouth and anus if necessary.
I upload them to pho.to/9FfRe so you can see them all and enlarge the image to full size (I couldn't post the active link).

[Aether]

Thank you guys, I always loved snakes but never been part of a community....maybe this can be it.
I took more photos. I would like to identify this snake and be 100% sure is it. I could even take photos of the inside of his mouth and anus if necessary. I upload them here pho.to/9FfRe so you can watch and enlarge them.

I just noticed I ended up writing in spanish, sorry. I said we are in the dry season, but in those days will start the rain.

[FWK]

Fantastic shots, it is a beautiful animal. I'm pretty confident it's a Lyre Snake though I am having trouble finding a list of all snakes found in Costa Rica. I may have to buy a book lol. Some websites claim there are as many as 162 species of snakes in Costa Rica (travel web site, not terribly reliable) but I can't find a list online with more than a dozen. I will keep digging, I must know more :wacky:

Here is a link to a paper on Lyre Snakes, your area is home to Trimorphodon quadruplex. (http://ib.berkeley.edu/labs/mcguire/Devitt%20et%20al.Trimorphodon.2008.pdf)

[Aether]

Thanks! In the link you provided there's a map showing the different species across central america. Quadruplex seems to range exactly in Costa Rica where I live indeed.
Here (https://sites.google.com/site/serpientesdecostarica/) you have a list of snakes found in Costa Rica. Quadruplex is the last one.

Now, how can I be sure is a Quadruplex? I read is mildy venomous and not harmfull to humans, what does it mean in real life? What will happen if he bites me? Do you think is young enough to be kept in captivity?
Looking at some photo, they seems to be lt darker than the one I found, could it be because is young? Is it young?
edit: I just read the Texas Lyre when is threatened can rapidly vibrate its tail and I think I saw the snake doing so...just once. It has a normal tail tho.

[FWK]

Awesome link, thank you very much. I have some reading to do.

I don't know how to guarantee you it is a Lyre Snake, but based on what I've seen I'm almost positive it is. Roughly 99.9% sure lol. I quickly ran through all the snakes on the site you provided (the variety is astonishing, my head is still spinning) and nothing other than the Lyre Snake is even close. There is a description including scale counts in the paper I linked and I'm sure there are other resources online, maybe a local herpetology group on Facebook?

The toxicity of rear fanged colubrids is always a question mark. The venom yield is low and the delivery system is poor (short, grooved fangs), a quick nip will most likely not result in an envenomation. Symptoms of an envenomation will likely be mild and localized, burning, singing, swelling, the like. Think of a bee sting. However there is always a risk of a serious reaction, including an allergic reaction. Play it safe.

I did some preliminary research on keeping Lyre Snakes a while back (here in the U.S. most people think the only snakes we have with elliptical pupils are vipers but we actually have three colubrids with elliptical pupils, Lyre Snakes, Night Snakes and Northern Cat Eyed Snakes. I'd like to keep one of them someday) and it was pretty clear they are a relatively advanced snake as as far as care goes. They are said to be picky eaters and can be difficult to switch to rodents, if they will eat at all. I wouldn't recommend keeping him unless you are pretty experienced and willing to force feed if necessary.

Many snakes darken as they age, but I do not know Lyre Snakes well enough to say whether they do or not. I am not sure how old it is, from those pictures I would guess at it being relatively young. Probably in its first or second year. Many snakes also rattle their tail when threatened, including old world species that have never been in contact with Rattlesnakes.

[Aether]

Thanks for your answers, you're very helpful.
I admit I'm not that expert with snakes, I have already handled them various times and I saw them every other day. I kept a couple of pitons once but just for a couple of days cause I realized I couldn't feed them properly. I love animals and I always prefer to let them free, while usually people kill them right away, but snakes are one of my three favorite animals so I was waiting for an occasion like this.
I would have liked to have a boa or a piton, since I can also find them, but they need too much food, especially as they grow.
This Lyre, this quadruplex, seems a nice deal: I read the feed on lizards and it's plenty of gekoes here, and lizards, and I got no problem catching them. And it doesn't get too much big, even if it wouldn't a problem.
What do you think if I make a try? If he doesn't eat I'll let him free. But for a snake of this size, what would be the right size for a terrarium? Do you think he will enjoy crawling on my arms?
I got sting pretty frequently by bees and visps, a couple of days ago a scorpion too. Could you compare the pain? Have you have bitten by a venomous snake?

[FWK]

Keeping it is entirely up to you, but I will say again I don't recommend it. It would be better to start with something easier and preferably captive bred, but I don't know how available captive bred snakes are in Costa Rica. If you do decide to go for it give it the best shot you can. The enclosure doesn't need to be terribly large, that plastic tub in the background of your pictures would probably do just fine for a while. I would shoot for a relative humidity between 40-60% to start and temperatures in the high 70's on the cool side and high 80's on the warm side. Put an undertank heating pad on a thermostat under the warm end to create the thermal gradient. Lyre Snakes are nocturnal, lighting will not be important. Drill some small holes to provide ventilation and control humidity. Give him lots of places to hide and things to climb on, some extra cover like fake plants would be a good idea as well. Give him a bowl of fresh water and leave him alone. Don't bother him other than to change the water every few days and offer food. If you're lucky he will settle in and eat for you within a couple weeks. If not you'll have to force feed or just let him go. If he does settle in you'll want to think about treating him for parasites and any other issues that may come up. And after a few more weeks if he is doing well you can think about handling him.

I've handled many hundreds if not thousands of venomous snakes but I have always taken great care to avoid a bite, so I really can't tell you how much it would hurt to be bitten. But I'm sure it wouldn't be fun lol.

[Aether]

Well, I wanted to give it a try. So yesterday night I did set up a temporary terrarium (since I need to go downtown to buy what I need and it will be next week). I put a gecko in it, then the snake and I thought "god, that gecko it's way too big for that little head". Tomorrow I woke up but since I was late I took a look at the terrarium for few seconds, the geckos was gone and the snake was there but I didn't notice anything unusual...I just thought the gecko was escaped through the slit between the cage and the lid. Then I come back home, I opened the lid and I took a closer look:

http://i59.tinypic.com/alsunk.jpg

I don't know if you can see it (the photo went too bright) but his lower belly it's pretty swollen. So, did he eat the gecko already? Is that normal?

Oh, and I had to move him just a little with a stik and he tried to bite me. He actually touched my finger. I'm just curious, if he bites me and envenom me, will the flash necrose? I'm asking just to be sure it won't be that bad.

[FWK]

He definitely ate it, that is amazing. Very cool. Don't bother him for a day or two so he can digest.

I really doubt a bite from that little guy could cause necrosis but I suppose anything is possible. You may want to get a snake hook to keep your fingers out of harms way. Like I said, play it safe.

[reptiledude987]

I agree with fwk its best to err on the side of caution and use a hook. However if it was just a quick strike there was likely no envenomation. typically with rear fanged species they need to get a decent bite and "chew" a bit to actually get some venom in.

[SoPhilly]

Se lo comio! Felicitaciones. Y que guapo serpiente :)

[Aether]

Thanks for the reminder, he didn't actually bite me, just touched.

Amazing right?! I tought he was never gonna happen...the problem is I can't find any specific guide about this species (quadruplex), can I follow guides about others Lyre? How can I know/guess his diet? I guess lizards and frogs mainly since they are so common around here, especially lizards in the dry season. I don't see many small mammals, many birds but there out of my range (maybe poults when he'll be bigger?). Insects and spiders, full of them, but I don't know if they're ok for this species.

edit: jaja gracias!

[SoPhilly]

I wouldn't get too specifically stuck on "quadruplex" - Apparently both trimorphodon biscutatus biscutatus and trimorphodon biscutatus quadruplex can be found in Costa Rica. Any info you can find on lyre snakes that live in your area should be helpful to you - I was intrigued and found a couple things:

Trimorphodon quadruplex (Central American Lyre Snake) (http://www.iucnredlist.org/details/summary/203336/0)

http://www.azgfd.gov/i_e/ee/resources/field_notes/rep/lyre_snake.pdf

These aren't as solid of sources as FWK has, but they seem to indicate that rodents are a natural part of the diet, although possibly more so for older snakes. I have a Hispaniola boa that had to be started on live anoles, then switched to pre-killed anoles, then anole-scented pinky mice, and is now on frozen/thawed mice with no problems. That was from birth, though - your guy might surprise you and take a mouse sooner. Although, if Costa Rica is anything like the Caribbean, there are anoles and geckos and frogs absolutely everywhere jaja, es verdad? I'd just keep feeding those for now, probably one a week of about the size you gave him. Buena suerte.

Anyone else have thoughts on this? I've kept various tropical species on and off for 12 years, but I've never been a colubrid gal.

[Aether]

Oh thanks for the links, everything is appreciated. Yeah, reptiles are everywhere, not all so easy to catch tho...they're pretty fast and smart.
In case big preys won't be available, will they eat smaller ones?

edit: the second link you provided is very helpful, it also explain what happens when bited.

[Albert Clark]

No experience with this Costa Rico species. Literature states they do eat lizards, bird and small mammals including bats! Thank you for this little class.

[FWK]

I agree with SoPhilly but with a couple clarifications: Trimorphodon biscutatus quadruplex is the old nomenclature for Trimorphodon quadruplex and Trimorphodon biscutatus biscutatus for Trimorphodon biscutatus, they were both elevated to full species status, once accepted, in the paper I linked. I quote from the introduction of said paper (http://ib.berkeley.edu/labs/mcguire/Devitt%20et%20al.Trimorphodon.2008.pdf):

We conclude that Trimorphodon biscutatus (sensu lato) comprises six evolutionary species (including the recently elevated T. vilkinsonii) and recommend elevating T. biscutatus (sensu stricto), T. lambda, T. lyrophanes, T. paucimaculatus, and T. quadruplex to the species level.

Here (http://etd.lsu.edu/docs/available/etd-0331103-170040/unrestricted/Devitt_thesis.pdf) is an older paper using the old classifications. T. quadruplex is currently the only recognized Trimorphodon sp. in Costa Rica. T. biscutatus is found well north, its range ending in the western edge of Guatemala. That said, anything on T. b. quadruplex is still relevant, and any information on any Lyre Snake species could be useful.

They are definitely known for taking rodents, and as Albert mentioned, birds and bats. The problem is getting them eating and then switching them to rodents in captivity. Yours is already eaten for you, that is huge. Now you need to minimize its stress levels to ensure it will keep eating (get a more permanent, climate controlled enclosure set up as soon as possible) and, ideally, work on switching it to rodents. Assuming you have access to rodents. It is certainly possible to feed it field collected prey indefinitely, but wild prey carry the risk of disease as well as a heavy parasite load. Especially amphibians, I'd stay away from them if at all possible. I wouldn't bother with insects either. You can reduce the risk of parasites and disease somewhat by freezing the prey for a couple weeks before offering it. Switching it to frozen/thawed prey may be tricky, but it will definitely be worth the effort. Then again, it ate for you so easily the first time it may take f/t just as easily lol.

[Aether]

Today I set him free, sadly for me. A friend I live with has a snake phobia...what a lucky coincidence. I bring him near a river with rocks, I bring him bare hand and he was so calm, curious and kind. Awsome snake.
I forgot to say the other day I had him in my hand, I brought him near the water dish and I saw him acutally drink, so cute. And do they yawn? Cause I think I saw him doing so.
Let's see what will be the next snake. Rains are imminent and so are snakes. Hope you will help me identify them as well.

[millertime89]

Very cute little guy! Snakes definitely yawn! There's another thread about it here:
http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/general-discussion/108830-why-do-snakes-yawn.html

[mistersprinkles]

Thank you guys, I always loved snakes but never been part of a community....maybe this can be it. I encounter a blind snake the other day, one of the smalles, was beautiful, too bad I didn't take some pics.

I took more photos. I would like to identify this snake and be 100% sure is it. I could even take photos of the inside of his mouth and anus if necessary.
I upload them to pho.to/9FfRe so you can see them all and enlarge the image to full size (I couldn't post the active link).

Please don't do that. Forcing your way into a snake's mouth/vent is very stressful on the animal and wild animals deserve to be wild. I suggest you take the snake to a suitable wild habitat and release it. It is not a pet, it is a wild snake.

Nice picture.

Bienvenido a la comunidad!!

[Aether]

Please don't do that. Forcing your way into a snake's mouth/vent is very stressful on the animal and wild animals deserve to be wild. I suggest you take the snake to a suitable wild habitat and release it. It is not a pet, it is a wild snake.

Nice picture.

Bienvenido a la comunidad!!

Thanks, but I don't know what are you talking about, forcing what? Pets should deserve to be wild too, aka free. We could go on forever arguing about being wild, being free and all of that. I was about to keep him because he was pretty young...and you know, pets came from wild animals, usually from eggs, babies or young subjects, but even old ones can become pets. But yes, I would prefer to start with an egg or a newborn. I have already set him free.

[grapefruit]

I think he meant when you said you were willing to take pics of his mouth or anus to find out what species it is