My New Retic WILL NOT EAT! Someone help me out here!

[KyleKennedy]

Hello everyone this is my first time on this site. I created an account because I am in desperate need of help and advice from experienced retic owners. I owned a 7 month old tiger retic since it was a just a month old, but two weeks ago I traded him for a 7 month old mainland male. Now I am started to think I got screwed on this deal. My tiger was a great eater, ate every week, shed perfectly every time, and was already about 5 feet long. I loved this snake, but I always wanted to own a mainland. So about two weeks ago, I ended up trading him for a mainland. Anyways, let me start off by saying the mainland I acquired was very small for his age, only about 4 feet long and rather thin. I didn't think much of it because I know all snakes grow at their own pace. Anyway, he was in the process of shedding when I got him. I left him in his new enclosure overnight and the next morning I noticed he had shed pretty good. That same night, I offered him a live large rat (the previous owner said he ate both live and f/t large rats weekly, but I'm starting to doubt it). The snake didn't even make an attempt to go after the rat. He just strikes at it, kind of like a defensive strike and then retreats back into his hide and doesn't come back out. After about 30 minutes of not showing interest in eating, I took the rat out. Few days later, offered the same rat again. Still nothing. Few strikes here and there and then slithers back into his hide. After that, I did not mess with the snake for a week. Offered him the rat again, and still does not show interest in eating. I even killed the rat this time before offering it to him, yet still does not appear interested. I am getting very worried now. I know young retics eat whenever food is available. My tiger ate was eating every 5 days without hesitation, but this mainland hasn't ate for two weeks. I tried to get in contact with the previous owner, but he is ignoring my calls. I am thinking he knew he screwed me. Something is wrong with this snake, but I do not know what.

I have him in a 30 gallon breeder tank, with a 100 watt heat lamp on the hot end, and a heat mat underneath the tank. Humidity is at a constant 68-74 degrees. Hot end is 94 degrees, cool end around 74. The temps and humidity are perfect. I have him on aspen bedding and there is a huge water bowl in the middle of the tank that gets cleaned daily and a buffalo skull hide.

This is the exact set-up I had the tiger in, and he never gave me any problems.

Any suggestions on what I can do to make him start eating? Anything I am doing wrong? This is my 2nd retic, first was the tiger. So I am still an amateur at owning retics, but I did plenty of research and spent lots of money to make sure they have the perfect set-up and eat regulary.

Any help would would be greatly appreciated! Thanks.

[millertime89]

http://i.imgur.com/l9FS3jp.jpg

How many hides do you have? Do you have the sides covered? Did you check to make sure when he shed that he didn't have any stuck eyecaps? Can you post a picture of your setup please? Clean the water every 3-4 days. Daily can disturb your snake which will stress him out and may result in him not eating. What size rats are you using and how big is your snake. Post something for scale for him so we have an idea of how big he is.

[Ballchris]

millertime will help you he has answered some of my questions about my retic, they will not starve them selves it may be due to the fact he's in a new environment that he doesn't know, good luck man keep us updated, I have done tons of homework on these snakes as I am a new herper, I love the giants post pics when you get things ironed out.

[KyleKennedy]

@millertime89 - There is only enough room in his enclosure for one hide but it is big enough for him to go in and it has ton of privacy. The snake is about 4 feet, and I have been offering him live jumbos to beef him because he is underweight. He does not have stuck eyecaps. I gave him a warm bath with Zilla Shed-Ease formula and all of his remaining skin including eye caps came right off.

[themeyers]

be patient. and only offer food every 7-10 days. I have a male that at almost 2 years old is only about 6' (mainland)he is a picky eater and only take quail in the winter time. but during the spring and summer will take jumbo rats. keep in mind it is in a new environment and I typical give at least a week of settling time before I handle or offer food. the rest of my retics have that typical feed response that will take the feeding tongs right our of your hand. always if you are not seeing a feed response than check temps and hides. make sure you have a hide at either end and that you have a water bowl big enough for it to get into to soak. keep your head up and us posted.

[KyleKennedy]

He has everything he needs. A big hide, large water bowl, tons of privacy, and the proper heat and humidity. My worst fear is a parasite, which would explain him being underweight.

[KyleKennedy]

Millertime89 - No stuck eyecaps, 100 percent of his old skin came off perfectly

[KyleKennedy]

I've been offering him jumbos to beef him up since he is very thin.

[IW17]

You really should post pics of the snake and setup. Sometimes little things you might miss are easy for someone with more experience to pick up on. This is a wonderful site and hopefully we can help you get things in order.

[KyleKennedy]

Here he is. As you can see, he is pretty thin and only about 4 feet long. Sorry for the poor quality pic, the camera on my phone sucks. I will post a pic of his set-up when I get home so you can see if there is anything wrong with it.

[Albert Clark]

Be patient and don't worry about him being underweight right now. His enviornment has changed and he is still in acclimating mode. Don't keep putting food on the table when he is still experiencing some stress from both. I would just let him get used to the new home for at least the next ten days and do not try to feed him either. Give him fresh water every two or three days. Just relax and enjoy him and don't try feeding for 10 days. Stay in peace and not pieces.

[millertime89]

You don't want a big hide. You want a small hide that they barely have enough room inside. It provides them security because then something else can't get in or can't get them out.

[MDT]

Albert is right....try not to overthink this. I have a SD retic that was a very slow starter in terms of eating. Very frustrating. However, after about 6 or 8 weeks, he eventually chilled out and now eats like a pig. Just give him time. Enjoy him. Let him acclimate. There are a lot of really knowledgable retic folks on this board. Stick around and they will be a huge resource. Best of luck to you :)

[KyleKennedy]

Thank you all for the helpful advice and comments! I'll just be patient, I guess. However, I tried feeding him again earlier today (before I read the comments saying to wait 10 days), and he didn't appear interested...again. He bit the rat pretty good on the face but quickly let go. I went to remove the rat from the cage to prevent the rat from going after the snake, and the snake ended up getting a pretty good bite in on the top of my hand. I'll wait 10 days and try to feed him from tongs next time. Thanks again, guys.

[KyleKennedy]

One more question. What would be the better option after 10 days? f/t or live? The previous owner said he took both. I honestly prefer to feed live, but I think f/t is the safer route for now, but when he gets bigger I would like to switch over to live. What do you guys think? Don't mean to ask so many questions, but I don't have anyone else I can talk to about this hobby. I just want the best for this snake.

[MDT]

why risk the safety of your animal and feed live. there are too many resources for frozen out there. live prey is a bad accident waiting to happen. you've invested a lot into your retic, why chance it getting injured?

none of my carpets or retics get live food...i would venture that most others do the same.

[Sublimeballs]

Give him time. He'll eat when he's ready. Millertime89 is right on the hide size. Post a pic of the caging for us to help more. How are you controlling/ monitoring heat and humidity?


I have to comment on something as no one else has. Tigers are a mainland( unless crossed to dwarf). Mainland is just a term used for the nominate form of the species; M. R. Reticulatus. It seems to me someone got you to trade a morph for a normal. Nothing wrong with normals. I keep only locale retics personally, no morphs yet.

[millertime89]

If he'll take f/t, I would feed f/t. The larger the prey item the more dangerous it can be. A fuzzy rat won't bite, a jumbo could easily kill a snake. I only feed live if I absolutely have to.

[Albert Clark]

Also, how is the 100 watt bulb seated on the enclosure? If it's on the screen top and above your uth it just may be too hot. How is the uth being regulated? Maybe you have to tweak your husbandry, While the retic gets acclimated to the new crib. Lol.

[millertime89]

Here's something else to consider. While a large rat can scratch and bite what happens when you have to feed even larger prey? Have you seen the kind of damage a large rabbit can do with their teeth and the claws on their back feet? What happens when you can't find rabbits big enough and have to resort to pigs or goats or chickens? They can all cause some serious damage... Live just isn't worth the risk if it can be avoided and it's just plain stupid for giants that will readily take f/t.

[KyleKennedy]

@Albert Clark - I am a HVAC technician so I use my temperate gun to check the temps in the cage daily. I keep the day heat lamp on during the day time (around 92 degrees last time I checked) and at night I use an infared heat lamp that stays around 90 degrees and on cool end around 80 or so. So the snake is warm 24/7. The lamp is sitting on the top of the hot end of cage. I just switch the bulb every night.

@millertime89- I get what you're saying but I prefer to feed live. It is just a preference. I love watching snakes hunt and eventually kill their prey. I always supervise live feedings with a stun gun in hand just in case the prey goes after the snake, and I can easily kill the prey if need be. But I wouldn't mind doing f/t because I have seen and heard horror stories of the prey doing serious harm to the snake.

@sublimeballs- I know. I honestly love the mainlands' color patterns more than tigers. That's why I traded.

[MDT]

I love watching snakes hunt and eventually kill their prey. I always supervise live feedings with a stun gun in hand just in case .

Um....what? What kind of stun gun are you talking about? How would you "intervene with a stun gun" if your retic has a rat in it's coils, and the rat is chewing the hell out of your snake?

This doesn't sound like a plan.

[KyleKennedy]

@MDT - It's a flashlight that doubles into a tazer. Very light weight and perfect for pre-killing feeders.

[SnoopySnake]

I always supervise live feedings with a stun gun in hand just in case the prey goes after the snake, and I can easily kill the prey if need be.

Umm will this not shock the snake in the process since the prey would likely be wrapped in its coils..?

[KyleKennedy]

@SnoopySnake- I only use the tazer if the prey is biting the snake and the snake doesn't appear interested in eating. Once the snake has the prey in it's coil, it's pretty much game over for the prey, and no need to use the tazer then. I know prey can still bite while in the coils, but it doesn't cause alot of damage, considering the prey is dead in less than 30 seconds. I know some of you will disagree with me. That's fine. But I've been feeding live for awhile and never had any issues of prey inflicting serious harm once in the coils.

[dave himself]

Don't mean to sound like an idiot mate but how long have you been feeding live rabbits this size with no injuries to your snakes

http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j342/davy64/snakes/IMAG0576.jpg (http://s1081.photobucket.com/user/davy64/media/snakes/IMAG0576.jpg.html)

Just something to make you think about mate

[Ballchris]

Don't mean to sound like an idiot mate but how long have you been feeding live rabbits this size with no injuries to your snakes

http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j342/davy64/snakes/IMAG0576.jpg (http://s1081.photobucket.com/user/davy64/media/snakes/IMAG0576.jpg.html)

Just something to make you think about mate

MY GOD THATS A BIG A** BUNNY!!!!!
srry continue with the tread.

[fishingfool]

If he takes both i say give him f/t till he gets that killing streak back I'm also a live kinda guy its more.interesting that being said don't leave a live anamal with your snake unattended

[millertime89]

@SnoopySnake- I only use the tazer if the prey is biting the snake and the snake doesn't appear interested in eating. Once the snake has the prey in it's coil, it's pretty much game over for the prey, and no need to use the tazer then. I know prey can still bite while in the coils, but it doesn't cause alot of damage, considering the prey is dead in less than 30 seconds. I know some of you will disagree with me. That's fine. But I've been feeding live for awhile and never had any issues of prey inflicting serious harm once in the coils.

You don't realize how wrong you are... As Dave showed you, rabbits can be huge and can certainly damage or kill your snake even while in the coils. It's happened before. Just because it hasn't happened to you doesn't mean it hasn't happened period. Furthermore, snakes are ambush predators, they can appear not interested and spin around and strike without any indication. I had a vile tempered burm that ate like this. If you're reaching in to stun the prey, you're liable to get bit as well, have you seen what happens when you get bit by a large constrictor? It's not pretty... You're been foolish, especially since your snake can take a prey item that can't fight back and you want to feed it live just because you enjoy watching it hunt.

If you want to watch something hunt, get trained in falconry and get a hawk. It's awesome. Don't endanger your snake.

[MDT]

So...at the expense of being called a meanie again (as in another thread)...Kyle, you gotta ask yourself, are you really wanting assistance or simply validation? If it's the former, then I think the overwhelming response would be, don't feed live...it's simply not worth the risk. You have limited your snake simply by captivity. Hunting/killing in the wild is not the same as in captivity. It just isn't. Your responsibility to the safety and well being of your pet overrides your desire to "watch a kill".

If you are wanting validation of your husbandry, you likely won't get that...especially with a freaking taser poised to off a rat that gets jiggy with your snake.

So, I truly hope you don't take this the wrong way....I've been keeping snakes for well over 30 yrs...I'm still learning and modifying what I do and how I do it with regard to husbandry tips and pointers. I really think that for the long term well being of your snake, you should reconsider your feeding options.

[millertime89]

So...at the expense of being called a meanie again (as in another thread)...Kyle, you gotta ask yourself, are you really wanting assistance or simply validation?

For a second there I was confused because I thought you were addressing me...

[MDT]

Lol!! :D
Nope...the other Kyle. You're a retic guy...you're one of the guys I get my info from.

[KyleKennedy]

I just ordered a bunch of frozen rats in bulk. It's much cheaper and like you all said, why risk injury to myself and the snake. I'll take your guys' words for it considering you are all experts and I am just a rookie. Thank you all. But its still been a few weeks since he ate. When these frozen rats come in, I'll give that a try.

[KyleKennedy]

@davehimself - Jesus that's a huge rabbit!My retic isn't big enough to eat one of those yet. But when he does get to the point to eat large rabbits, I'd kill the rabbit first. I can imagine the type of damage a rabbit that size can inflict.

[millertime89]

@davehimself - Jesus that's a huge rabbit!My retic isn't big enough to eat one of those yet. But when he does get to the point to eat large rabbits, I'd kill the rabbit first. I can imagine the type of damage a rabbit that size can inflict.

It doesn't even have to be that big to inflict serious damage. I've been kicked by 3 lbers that leave nice big cuts on my arm. The other thing is if you continue to feed live, there's a chance that they won't take f/t or pre-killed when you want them to.

[KyleKennedy]

@millertime89 - I was feeding my 7 foot boa couple days ago. When I went to place the jumbo rat in the cage it turned around and gave me a nasty bite on my thumb. I went to the hospital the next day because my thumb started to turn black was very painful. They gave me shots to stop the infection. I've been bitten plenty of times by snakes even by my 7 foot boa. But nothing is more painful than a rat bite. From now on, I'm going start feeding my retic and boa f/t. It's worth a try. Don't want to get bitten by one of those nasty little bastards again.

[MDT]

check out Streptobacillus moniliformis....

[dave himself]

@davehimself - Jesus that's a huge rabbit!My retic isn't big enough to eat one of those yet. But when he does get to the point to eat large rabbits, I'd kill the rabbit first. I can imagine the type of damage a rabbit that size can inflict.

Thanks for not picking me up wrong mate, I wasn't trying to be a smart a$$. I was just trying to make you more aware :)

[millertime89]

This is something else you want to avoid... VERY GRAPHIC PICTURES OF A NASTY FEEDING RESPONSE BITE (http://burmjunkies.com/showthread.php?7467-****high-def-extreme-bite-damage-pics-inside-no-kids-no-snacking-while-viewing****)

This is why I cautioned you about the snake flipping around when you try and go in and taze the feeder the snake doesn't appear to want. I'm really happy to hear that you're willing to try f/t. Don't get me wrong. I love watching a snake hunt like it would in nature. But the downsides just aren't worth it for me.

[reptiledude987]

This whole thing about using a tazer baffels and disgusts me. Why would anyone think this is a appropriate option? I gurantee when this is done this is tazing the snake as well. Gaurenteed if you were holding a rabbit or rat in your hand and tazed it you would certainly feel the shock in your arm. Ive heard some ridiculous things about snakes before but this tops the list.

[KyleKennedy]

@MDT - pretty sure if I had that the doctors would have told me when they did an examination of my thumb. They gave me 4 shots, two in the thumb to kill the spread of infection and 2 in the arm. I doubt I have it.

[KyleKennedy]

What I have is a severed tendon in the thumb, no disease........knock on wood

[KyleKennedy]

@millertime89 - Brutal...

[KyleKennedy]

@millertime89 - That man wasn't bit during feeding time, he was cleaning the cage. Look at the comments

[KyleKennedy]

@ reptiledude987 - Of course it's not in my hand when I taze it nor when it is in the snake's coils. Why would I be holding either one of them when I taze it? There is no need to do that. Trust me, when I used to taze the feeders the snake NEVER EVER got tazed as a result of the feeder getting tazed. But I am done with live anyways. Starting to try the frozen route and see what happens.

[millertime89]

@millertime89 - That man wasn't bit during feeding time, he was cleaning the cage. Look at the comments

No, but that's what can happen when a big python gets a hold of you. Much more likely to happen during feeding time when they can smell food and are keying on things with heat...

[MDT]

What I have is a severed tendon in the thumb, no disease........knock on wood

you probably don't, but there is no way they/we can tell you that based off of exam. it's not common and i was throwing that out there as another example of why live feeding may not be the best choice.

you wouldn't know if you had rat bite fever until the bacteria could be isolated and identified (that does not happen in the ED) and, if your ER doc wasn't considering that as a possibility, you may not have received the correct antibiotic. chances are though, you did. (This is where follow up is important)

if you have a severed tendon, you have a whole other set of problems depending on if it's a flexor tendon or extensor tendon....and i'm guessing they set you up w a hand surgeon to repair the tendon? When you go in for tendon repair, they can take a culture if need be.

[millertime89]

you probably don't, but there is no way they/we can tell you that based off of exam. it's not common and i was throwing that out there as another example of why live feeding may not be the best choice.

you wouldn't know if you had rat bite fever until the bacteria could be isolated and identified (that does not happen in the ED) and, if your ER doc wasn't considering that as a possibility, you may not have received the correct antibiotic. chances are though, you did. (This is where follow up is important)

if you have a severed tendon, you have a whole other set of problems depending on if it's a flexor tendon or extensor tendon....and i'm guessing they set you up w a hand surgeon to repair the tendon? When you go in for tendon repair, they can take a culture if need be.

This is all latin to me... lol

[MDT]

sorry dude...we gotta talk in code. :)

severed tendon=not good=surgery, +/- loss of function
rat bite fever=couldn't tell that in ER=treat empirically and hope you covered everything

[millertime89]

sorry dude...we gotta talk in code. :)

severed tendon=not good=surgery, +/- loss of function
rat bite fever=couldn't tell that in ER=treat empirically and hope you covered everything

Lol, it's all good. Mostly directed at the specific tendons.

[KyleKennedy]

Yeah I'm scheduled see a hand surgeon, but that's in 2 weeks. In the meantime I have to keep my hand bandaged and my thumb is in a splint. I never heard of rat bite fever until you mentioned it. I looked it up and I'm starting to worry. I have been feeling sick and now my whole hand hurts, not just my thumb. I took off the bandages to look at it and my thumb is still swoll. I know it's a severed tendon, but I don't know why that would affect the rest of my hand. Going back to the ER and tell them to check for rat bite fever later today.

[KyleKennedy]

Even though mortality rate is low if untreated, I'm not taking any chances.

[MDT]

they can't check for it....(so to speak),,,they could potentially do a culture you'd know in about 4 days. Typically, we would make sure that whatever antibiotic you're already on would cover that bacteria... and, my advice, go to an urgent care. quicker, cheaper, same evaluation. unless you have a true emergency (can't breathe, chest pain, etc)....you should avoid the ER .

[Princess-dad]

Hi Imam not an expert but try feeding your small,thin snake some smaller thinner food . change his enclosure to as close to as close to the he was kept before . Why do u think its appropriate to feed a jumbo live rat to a new animal u just received when he is probably not a bug enough animal to eat that offering .By your post he is scared of that rat or he would not hide he would kill it they dont try to eat what they cant swallow. At this point your desire to have your snake eat what it cant eat , he is probably stressed , by u,,and hungry and weak . Only offer food that is no bigger around than he is . Now that he gas been bitten try med or small frozen . You know something that isnt to big for him. After he starts feeding on a regular bases then try pushing the size thing .Think about it hes in new place after a scary trip living in a small home and having what sounds like to me someone try to push him into a food source thats way to, big . Feed two smaller offerings if ge needs more not one he is scared and might not be able to swallow . More nourishment does not have to add up to way to big . My 5ft. RTB is quite healthy (thick ) for under two yrs old hes on 1med rat every 5\7days depending on ho he is acting . Im thinking about upping his food because he is hunting his cage sooner each week . But that doesnt mean up a size up means up the amount depending on his ability to handle the size . Good luck sorry if I seem harsh but come on he is what he is fatten him up after he will eat for u not at first meeting .

[millertime89]

A 5ft retic can usually take jumbo (XL or bigger) rats. Your 5ft rtb can probably take bigger food too. I prefer to up the size rather than increase frequency. Different strokes for different folks.

[Princess-dad]

sorry I didnt see the 4 pages of post I was speaking to the guy that started this thread . The one who said he just got a skinny ft 4 snake in trade and is trying to give it a Jumbo rat as a first meal and kept giving it to him until he got his snake bitten by rat even though he stated that his animal would defense strike and then hide . Again I am no pro but its not hard to tell if an animal is scared of thief pray . And yes Prince could easily handle a large rat , but he is longer and in no way could he be described as skinny . I believe before a owner starts trying to go for as big if not bigger than your animal can handle you should get familiar with you new friend . And yes I would also rather go up a size instead of feeding two more nutrition in 1 as apposed to 2 having more waste ie fur and bone .But at the same time I was not asking what should I do if my new friend wont eat something to big that its hides from , and bites it .so I keyed in on the owner desire to fatten up his new snake by going very large with the suze and suggested if he thinks it needs that many calories . feed two pray items of an easier to handle size .If his snake is scared of the food its not gonna get eaten . The snake might and apparently dud get hurt though .Sorry for my lazyness I should of made sure I was addressing the proper person . Piece and love for alo things especially our feetless friends.

[Princess-dad]

Prince pics

[KyleKennedy]

@Princess-dad - My snake was not bitten by a rat, I was lol. And it was when I was attempting to feed my red tail boa, not my retic. I'm going to give my retic large f/t rats, and I am sure he will take them down with no problem. This retic is underweight for his age, so I am going to bulk him up. What's the point of having a mainland retic if they're small. I am trying to turn him into the giant that he know he has the potential of becoming.

[KyleKennedy]

@millertime89 - Me too. When I had my savannah monitor, I would feed him 1 large rat rather than 10 small mice. The same can be applied for snakes.