woma python incubation

[scarhead]

Hey can any1 give me some tips on woma egg incubation? My females about to lay eggs and can use any help I can get.. I bought a breeding pair and found out the male is sick and am unsure if he will be able to breed again.. I really need this clutch to turn out.. I have the new exo Terra fridge style incubator? Any tips folks?

[shaunyboy]

if you pm Derek Roddy on here,i'm pretty sure he would walk you through it,he works with Woma's and BHP's mate

i wish you the best of luck and hope it all goes according to plan with the clutch


all the best,shaun :)

[scarhead]

Thank you for your help I had c'n a couple of his threads on BHP.. I'll try sending him a msg ty
..Scarhead..

[Derek Roddy]

Hey there,

Well, the first thing you'll need will be....

1. a 15 -18 quart sterlite tub for the eggs
2. Bag of Perlite (without miracle grow if you can find it) vermiculite works as well and so does over water (we'll get to that in a minute) but, I like to have some sort of substrate to keep the water from sloshing around if you need to move the tub for any reason.
3. Light defuser grate from home depot. this is the stuff they put over fluro blubs....looks like a tic tac toe setup.(See picture)
4. 4 small deli cups (to put the light defuser on)

Check out my setup here...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v321/derekroddy/HD%20womas/07womashatch.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/derekroddy/media/HD%20womas/07womashatch.jpg.html)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v321/derekroddy/HD%20womas/2011womahatch.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/derekroddy/media/HD%20womas/2011womahatch.jpg.html)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v321/derekroddy/HD%20womas/08%20womas%20hatch.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/derekroddy/media/HD%20womas/08%20womas%20hatch.jpg.html)

Mix perlite/vermiculite 1 part water to 4 part substrate to begin and tweak as needed.
Put the defuser on the 4 deli cups in corners of tub to keep the eggs out of contact with moisture and suspended above the wet perlite. You do NOT want the eggs to come into contact with any moist substrate.

Temps around 88-89
Humidity 85-90%

58-64 days

Should be good to go...


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v321/derekroddy/HD%20womas/DSCN3168.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/derekroddy/media/HD%20womas/DSCN3168.jpg.html)

D

[scarhead]

Thanks Derek I apriciate the tips I've been trying to get the humidity levels inside my incubation box down lower.. There at 99% now I have the EXO. TERRA new small fridge style incubator thermo electric.. I have a zilla digital temp and humidity probes inside the incubation box but not touching the substrate.. I do not use the water tray at the bottom of the incubator as it brought the humidity levels up to 99% inside the incubator... Should I try putting more holes in my incubation box to bring the levels down?

[scarhead]

Thanks Derek I apriciate the tips I've been trying to get the humidity levels inside my incubation box down lower.. There at 99% now I have the EXO. TERRA new small fridge style incubator thermo electric.. I have a zilla digital temp and humidity probes inside the incubation box but not touching the substrate.. I do not use the water tray at the bottom of the incubator as it brought the humidity levels up to 99% inside the incubator... Should I try putting more holes in my incubation box to bring the levels down?

[Derek Roddy]

Hey there.
Ok humidity too high in egg box.....means too much water in the substrate.
Dump it and try again with less water in the mixture.

You could add holes but its better to be on the drier side with the substrate with woma eggs.

D

[Nick V]

You know, it's funny that I've been looking into an incubation setup for my womas and sure enough I come on here and see this. I was actually considering this exact setup I saw on an Australian site because I don't trust the substrate touching the eggs after last year's mold experience. Well, I'm sorry to hear about your male scarhead, what exactly is wrong with him? You can try posting some pics on here for some gurus to chime in and help assess his health. I wish you good luck with your eggs this year as I'm hoping for the same with my pair. Also, thanks for sharing this Derek, I'm sure a lot of people will find this incredibly helpful, including me.

[scarhead]

My male woma had a respiratory tract infection and wen off food in July I've been force feeding him by tube for months now and he still refuses to eat.. I purchased them as an adult breeding pair. Were bread by Don Patterson a reputable breeder from BC Canada at the age off 3 an had no problems eating or health issues in the past.. I can't afford blood work right now an have been feeding him a slurry of carnivore care and electrolyte mix..

[scarhead]

I. Was wondering about other slurry mixes or other things I can give him to keep him healthy as he's loosing weight.. I was also wondering if putting raw egg in the slurry for extra nutrition? Any tips? And again I really apriciate all the help with my egg incubation

[Cmwells90]

My male woma had a respiratory tract infection and wen off food in July I've been force feeding him by tube for months now and he still refuses to eat.. I purchased them as an adult breeding pair. Were bread by Don Patterson a reputable breeder from BC Canada at the age off 3 an had no problems eating or health issues in the past.. I can't afford blood work right now an have been feeding him a slurry of carnivore care and electrolyte mix..

If the snake was feeding fine for 3 years, and just went off feed when you took over, i would assume it's a husbandry issues, and force feeding isn't helping lower the stress any. What are your cage temps/humidity/ and how are you measuring AND controlling these temps?

[scarhead]

It was feeding fine for me for a few months when I got them the male went off food during his medication for the respiratory tract infection.. Its not husbandary issues or stress from the move I have a proper racking system with heat tape and a helix thermostat... I have digital temp and hygrometers with probes for monitoring there temp an humidity.. And my female is eating fine its a breeding pair they both got the same respiratory tract infections an she recovered fine and eats heartily...

[scarhead]

He didn't go off food when I took over thank you.. He ate fine for three months till they got respiratory infections.. I'm an experienced handler and don't skimp on equipment especially for my womas. The prize pair of my collection.. Every thing I use for equipment is high end zoo med, exo Terra, zilla and helix... My female is healthy and gravid along with the other 21 in my collection... I couldn't achieve that with improper husbandary conditions.. I breed corns, kings, pythons, and every kind in between lol

[Derek Roddy]

It was feeding fine for me for a few months when I got them the male went off food during his medication for the respiratory tract infection.. Its not husbandary issues or stress from the move I have a proper racking system with heat tape and a helix thermostat.

If when they came to you they were fine and developed RI issues 3 months after getting to you, then yes....it absolutely is husbandry issues (Esp if both got it). Snakes just don't get sick for no reason.

Being that they're Womas I'd bet that the humidity is too high. Womas Like lower humidity than most other Aussie species and will develop RIs, esp in rack systems, if Humidity is too high. Somewhere in the 45 to 55% range is good most of the year for them.

And also, temps being too high can cause RIs in Womas. They don't like being a consistent temp all day and night. I find they prefer a cool down of about 4 - 6 degrees at night time.

If you talk to Don again....tell him hello. I've know him for several years.

D

[scarhead]

My vet thinks it might be a liver issue hopefully will have blood work done next month hopefully I'll find out more but I keep my womas at 35-40% humidity

[scarhead]

And my temps at 78 - 82° I don't have a night time drop though... I actually received them from henry Piorun through don p and my male was showing signs of a respiratory infection just wheezing when he was handled I thought it was stress from. The move at 1st as some snakes mimic rit's from stress and cuz it was only wen he was handled.. He skipped a month of eating wen I 1st received him but got him eating again fine... After a couple months of him wheezing wen he was handled only an for a min wen I put him back I looked at him 1 morning an he was open mouth breathing so I rushed him to the vets it wasn't till a week on antibiotics that he went off food and refused since

[scarhead]

My vet seems to think they got the rti's from overnight shipping I'm not really sure how they got it.. I do apriciate all your help Derrick and every1 else to.. He looked healthy other than the weight loss he had stopped drinking water during the anti biotics but I got. Him drinking again after a couple slurry's with electrolyte mix.. I got all my info for health care from my vets and Melissa Kaplan's anapsid.org which seems to know more than my veterinarian lol I've been following anapsid.org starvation protocol. And the fluid therapy.

[scarhead]

I don't know if not having a night drop in womas temp cud cause rti's?

[Derek Roddy]

Alright, a few things I noticed in your responce.
Both your humidity and temps are too low. ( I didn't mention too low before as most people keep their stuff too hot.

Humidity should be around 50-55% and your ambient temps should be no higher than 88 (in a rack) with a slight drop at night (which sometimes happens naturally.)

Most vets are clueless when it comes to reptile health and liver issues would not cause RIs in your animal. And generally overnight shipping is not enough time to develope RI.

Most likely the animals has developed an RI infection at this point. (Is there any cheesy looking substance in the mouth?)

If so.... Go in with a soft tooth brush and clean the mouth. You can use a plastic spoon to pry the mouth open for cleaning.

Also.... A good soak in some water ( about an inch) that's warmed to about 90 degrees will help a few times a week and keep him hydrated.

Stand by I have another home remedy for you but I got to find it.

[scarhead]

I keep their temp at 78°-82°.. I received them and my male was wheezing wen I handled him but only wen handled and for a min wen I put him back he was doing this wen I first received them I thought it was stress from the move and overnight shipping and he wasn't eating when I 1st got them my female was but it took a little over a month to get the male to. Eat but did finally. After a month of eating heartily I came down in the morning to check on them and my male was open mouthed breathing so I rushed him to the vets. I got him put on antibiotics baytrill and another1 and he refused his 1st meal after a week of medicating him and hasn't ate since. He looks healthy sheds in 1 piece and still urinates and has no issue with deification..

[scarhead]

I need to stop him from loosing weight and I'm having trouble keeping his BMR from force feeding carnivore care powder slurry mix.. Can I add a raw egg and is there anything else you can recommend to keep his weight up till I figure out what's wrong.. Other than refusing to eat he's healthy

[scarhead]

I did get the ri under control and I paid for culture an sensitivity tests at the vets to make sure and had fecal matter tested both came back ok and neither has had signs of ri's since its just my male won't eat.. Cud my temps and humidity being to low stop him from eating?

[scarhead]

There at 78°-82° that's body temps and humidity I lowered cuz it was to high wen I 1st built my racking system.. I was worried I'd get scale rot or rti's if kept to high

[scarhead]

Again thank you I started with kings milks and corns lol thought I had it down pact lol been breeding for years 1st year on pythons though I had a clutch of blood python eggs I losses to mold that's y I asked for the incu tips thanks Derrick

[Derek Roddy]

I got him put on antibiotics baytrill and another1 and he refused his 1st meal after a week of medicating him and hasn't ate since.

Unfortunately, I think you may be too late on this one to save him if you're injecting Baytrill. This is why I don't like vets. And not to scare you but, I've never had a snake given Baytrill to survive over the long run.

If he's urinating green spots at all....he might already have a liver problems because of the infection and then the baytrill almost 100% makes it worse at this stage. (Which would be why he stopped eating.

Try this.....at about 3 minutes in...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJCnPfuqaBM

To be honest, Womas never seem to 100% kick RI issue. But, I've had them live long lives with it, as long as it's managed and they're kept warm (88-89) during that time.

I had success in turning plenty of animals around (mostly other peoples) with the F10 treatment.

Good luck,
D

[millertime89]

Unfortunately, I think you may be too late on this one to save him if you're injecting Baytrill. This is why I don't like vets. And not to scare you but, I've never had a snake given Baytrill to survive over the long run.

If he's urinating green spots at all....he might already have a liver problems because of the infection and then the baytrill almost 100% makes it worse at this stage. (Which would be why he stopped eating.

I'm in complete agreement. Unfortunately if you're seeing green, it's probably too late. That can be a sign of chronic dehydration as well as it can be indicative of the kidneys shutting down.

[scarhead]

Thank you everybody for all of your help... Just a quick update on my womas health my male seems to be recovering and is doing a lot better since I raised his body temperature up to 88°-90° and his humidity to 55%-60% and thank you derrick your tips u gave me probably saved my males life.. I had blood work done to check for liver disease and it came back negative:) he ate his 1st rat a medium size for the 1st time since July and has started drinking again normally.. He has ate another rat since then and has had normal deifications and has NO green spots in his urine:) my female has moved her eggs from her ovaries to her oviducts where they meet the awaiting sperm and becomes gravid.. She pushed her eggs down a few days ago and is about to start her prelay shed:) I was quite off on my timings lol but still continued to integrate my male and female and have had a witnessed lock every week for the last two months

[scarhead]

Quick question for you derrik... You mentioned before that womas never seem to fully recover from respiratory infections.. What symptoms do you generally see not clear up?
And also you said that you have never had 1 survive over the long run after being given baytril... Can you tell me how long they have lasted for you after being given baytril? And what was the shortest time you've seen a woma pass on from being given baytril? I need to know what symptoms from the ri's that don't go away so I know what to watch for... And again thank you derrik I really do appreciate your help and life saving advise:) my male is the pride of my collection and my 4 year old twin girls absolutely adore him lol he's puppy dog tame and absolutely beautiful.. I an so happy to see his health improving:) thank you everybody but most of all... Derrik Roddy you saved my male and I really couldn't be happier with him:)

[Derek Roddy]

Hey brother, No worries.

Quick question for you derrik... You mentioned before that womas never seem to fully recover from respiratory infections.. What symptoms do you generally see not clear up?

Usually, they have mucus during their shed cycles but, usually goes away after shedding.

And also you said that you have never had 1 survive over the long run after being given baytril... Can you tell me how long they have lasted for you after being given baytril? And what was the shortest time you've seen a woma pass on from being given baytril?

Longest time....maybe a year. And those animals never seemed to show signs of improving at all.
Anytime I've seen it done, the animals go down hill quickly....with-in a week or so.


again thank you derrik I really do appreciate your help and life saving advise:)

No problem, That's what we're here for.

Cheers,
D

[scarhead]

Since his health is improving does that mean I have better chances of him being ok and lasting for the long run? With proper husbandry of course lol I'm very happy that he's eating on his own and no more tube feeding.. He has a lot more energy he's hydrated on his own drinking fine and shows interest in my females;) I just got a male and female VPI Cherrybomb 100%Het for albino blood pythons.. Great additions to my collection:)

[scarhead]

I'm very happy with henry Piorun and don p there customer service has been great they've both giving me a lot of help and I've gotten several of my snakes from them over the years... Don P got me started with the womas there absolutely beautiful and all the bloods I've gotten lol I think that's were I went wrong with the womas I had there temps set with my blood pythons which was way off lol I do appreciate everybody's help... I would post some pics but I can't figure out how lol