"Fish tanks"

[Marshallarts]

It really annoys me when people say that you shouldn't keep your snakes in fish tanks when they make specially made plastic snake cages. Well actually terrariums are designed for reptiles that have all the features if not more than a plastic cage. They have the holes for cords to go through, ventilation, many have front opening doors, a litter dam, good viewing, and much more. Lots are coming with backgrounds now or you can buy a separate background. They hold humidity and heat fine, they look good and are much cheaper. AND they are specially made for reptiles.

[eminart]

A lot of the opinions you find on online forums are just things people read somewhere else online, and it gets passed around as gospel. Reptiles have been successfully kept in "aquariums" for 60 years - long before anyone dreamed of plastic tubs or ready-made plastic reptile enclosures. There's nothing wrong with plastic enclosures, but a fish tank with a top is a perfectly viable option for most reptiles as well.

[Minkness]

It's one of those things that just because there may be something 'better' doesn't mean the other is 'bad'.

After all, if you took a simple fish tank and had a peice of glass or acrylic cut the same size as a screen lid, it's almost the same as a plastic enclosure. Shoot, they do that for breeding bettas because when raising young bettas the air they breath has to be moist or their lungs get dried out and they die or don't grow properly. Why would it be different for a snake? And there's lots of ways to keep in humidity. Not to mention the reptiles that don't need much humidity in the first place!

I think it comes down to preference and cost. I have all my geckos in fish tanks but I want to upgrade to front opening reptile enclosures for ease more than anything else. However, what I may do is just customize what I already have. =)

[JinxtheBP]

My four are all kept in tanks. The BPs and the corn have screen tops and the BRB has a fancy, special plexiglass lid that my dad helped me make to keep in the humidity.

That being said, I dream of having a nice display set-up with glass fronts that open. Mostly for aesthetics! My collection of cheap and free tanks do just fine for now.

[Zelg]

I think its about where you live and how easy it is to maintain the temps and humidity. My BP is in a tank right now but after a year of having him I'm very much looking forward to my new cage arriving soon which will be pvc with front opening doors. Theres pros and cons to tanks vs others but if you live in a severely dry climate and you need to keep a tropical species, you're going to have to go through a lot of extra effort to maintain that climate.

However if you're keeping a something that doesnt require too much and you can manage that climate, fish tanks are fine. I actually found that if you layer the bedding then you can keep humidity up rather easily without the top layer being soaked. Of course thats just another step you have to take to maintain humidity. Not impossible, just takes more :)

[Marshallarts]

That's th thing though, I live in alberta(very dry) and I keep two whites tree frogs in a big glass tank with screen top and have absolutely no problem keeping humidity in. I use a heat lamp which supposedly drys out the air. I only have to spray them every few days.

[Aaron_S]

Fish tanks are designed for fish. End of story. With modifications they can work for a large amount of reptile species. Cleaning still sucks though.

What 'argument' there may be with tubs/PVC vs. FISH tanks is that a tub/PVC has far less work to do to it to make it work than a FISH tank.

For my tubs I only need to put a few holes for air flow.

[Marshallarts]

Okay yeah fish tanks are made for fish. Are terrariums made for fish? No. Glass terrariums designed for reptiles.

[Aaron_S]

Okay yeah fish tanks are made for fish. Are terrariums made for fish? No. Glass terrariums designed for reptiles.

Why are you being snippy? Did I state anything to do with terrariums? No. I went off the part of your original post where you said "Why do people say you shouldn't keep snakes in FISH TANKS when they make snake specific caging?" That was your statement. I answered it.

You went on a tangent about terrariums (note those aren't fish tanks). So why are you still talking about terrariums when people are critisizing fish tanks?

[Zelg]

Why are you being snippy? Did I state anything to do with terrariums? No. I went off the part of your original post where you said "Why do people say you shouldn't keep snakes in FISH TANKS when they make snake specific caging?" That was your statement. I answered it.

You went on a tangent about terrariums (note those aren't fish tanks). So why are you still talking about terrariums when people are critisizing fish tanks?


Can you explain to me the difference between a fish tank and a terrarium? They're 4 glass walls with a screen top. Is there more too it besides one being water tight?

[Aaron_S]

Can you explain to me the difference between a fish tank and a terrarium? They're 4 glass walls with a screen top. Is there more too it besides one being water tight?

Ask the person who loves them. I don't use either and have only taken a cursory glance at one in a store while passing by. They look like garbage to me.

[SSSSnakes]

They make Critter tank, that are designed for reptiles. They are glass style fish tanks with sliding screen lids. The glass is thinner, making the tank lighter. They are not designed to hold water. As far as keeping humidity up in a glass tank, just cover the top of the lid restricting the air flow, and the humidity will go up. Put a heat lamp over the water bowl and you will end up with condensation on the glass. It really comes down to what your personal choice is and works for you.

I personally don't care for front opening enclosures for dealing with snakes, I prefer to deal with snakes from above them and not at their level. Just my preference.

[CosmicOwl]

Fish tanks are made for fish. They're usually taller, longer and have less depth, so that fish keepers can have more viewing area. They also usually lack any kind of locking lid that is necessary for a snake enclosure. Terrariums, as name implies, are used for terrestrial animals that need floor space. So they're generally shorter and deeper. They also frequently come with a lid that can be secured. Even if they don't it's easy enough to find lids that fit common terrarium sizes/shapes, such as 20 longs.

This is all irrelevant to the fact that glass tanks are generally inferior to tubs/plastic cages in many respects. Don't get me wrong, they're still fine for many snakes(I have a corn in a 40 gallon bio-active tank), but they're harder to work with. They're heavy, glass is dangerous, and you can't modify them easily. I can take a plastic tub and easily melt holes in it to secure as many perches as I want. You don't have the same options with glass tanks unless you want to work with specific drill bits or silicone.

The simple answer is that glass tanks are more difficult to work with than plastic tubs or enclosures.

[SSSSnakes]

You don't have the same options with glass tanks unless you want to work with specific drill bits or silicone.


Almost all glass fish tanks are tempered glass, which can't be drilled. If you drill a tempered glass tank, it will shatter.

[reptiledude987]

If I want to mount a perch in my glass terrariums I use a specific type of non toxic epoxy and use it to glue pieces of pvc plumbing connectors cut in half lengthwise to creat little cups to hang branches from. The supplies I use to do this are all purchaced at a local pool supply store. The epoxy is called mister sticky. While its setting I have nothing in the tank once its set its rock solid and can support a really surprizing amount of weight.

[CosmicOwl]

Almost all glass fish tanks are tempered glass, which can't be drilled. If you drill a tempered glass tank, it will shatter.

I didn't know that. But there is another reason to go with plastic if you can.

[Minkness]

Wow, we have some serious tank hate going on...

As stated above, it just depends on your preferences in style and how you want to handle the enclosures. I think front opening are easier to clean. Slight modifications to fish tanks make holding humidity very easy.

I like the look of fish tanks but prefer the clean up of front opening enclosures so I will be switching to all front opening eventually.

Also, fish tanks are better in my opinion than the terrariums because they are more durable and their seals help hold in moisture even more than the made for lizards terrariums

[CosmicOwl]

I don't think we have any fish tank hate. A lot of people just prefer tubs because they have many advantages. Tubs are cheaper, safer and easier to modify. Tanks are okay for many snakes, but also pretty inferior for others. If you want to spend a bunch of money on a glass box that needs to be modified for many species of snakes, that's your choice. But many keepers would rather just spend 10 minutes putting holes in an inexpensive plastic tub.

[Minkness]

Lol

Oh yes, tubs take the cake for 'easy'!

I like viewing though, and I have yet to find a NICE clear tub. I have found almost clear, but still not all the way clear.

[reptiledude987]

Lol

Oh yes, tubs take the cake for 'easy'!

I like viewing though, and I have yet to find a NICE clear tub. I have found almost clear, but still not all the way clear.
Agreed. I like glass or wood with glass front simply for asthetics.

[SSSSnakes]

I use both tanks and tubs. The critter tanks are lockable with a pad lock, for venomous snakes.

[Sublimeballs]

It really annoys me when people say that you shouldn't keep your snakes in fish tanks when they make specially made plastic snake cages. Well actually terrariums are designed for reptiles that have all the features if not more than a plastic cage. They have the holes for cords to go through, ventilation, many have front opening doors, a litter dam, good viewing, and much more. Lots are coming with backgrounds now or you can buy a separate background. They hold humidity and heat fine, they look good and are much cheaper. AND they are specially made for reptiles.

First id like to point out that 90% of the products made for reptiles by the big companies are complete garbage.

Glass terraiums arnt designed for reptiles, they're just more accomidating fish tanks and still have to be modded to maintain your animals health. plastic cage are designed for reptiles.

This site is full of people that are pro the advancement of proper captive reptile husbandry; moving away from tanks is part of that. Yes, aquariums can work just fine( look at closed chamber tort grow out tanks) but you cant just buy one and call it a day. you can with plastic cages. There are no benifits of a tank when you're looking at the animals best interest, there are with plastic.

Most of what youre seeing as tank hate is people that have been in this hobby for a long tome and have seen what happens when people think a ball python can be kept in a glass tank with a screen lid and a heat light. A glass tank with a screen top and heat light is essentially a dehydrator, all the heat and humidity is going straight up and out. You can cover it and that simply minimalizes this not fixes it.

It seems to me that you're trying to convince us or yourself that were all wrong so you can tell yourself you're doing the best thing by going glass.

[Minkness]

I am not trying to convince anyone of anything. Just saying that there are levels. Good, better, and best. And of course, aweful. I am also not saying that it's ok to just buy a tank and be done with it. I have mentioned several times that tanks need to be customized to the needs of the reptile.

Tanks aren't 'bad' when they are fixed up properly. Are they as good as a custom PVC? No, but not everyone can buy those. Are tanks as good as tubs? Depends on the reptile. You wouldn't put a low humidity reptile in a tub or a high humidity reptile in a screen enclosure (which I have seen and still don't understand).

It would be great if everyone had the space and money for the 'best', but not everyone does, so they just make due with what they can. If I got a high humidity reptile and couldn't afford a PVC enclosure, I'd go with a tub.

Having nice, new things that 'help' us give the best care possible is great, but that 'best' comes with a cost. Like comparing a brand new vehicle to one from 10 years ago. So long as the one from 10 years ago is kept up with, it does the same thing the brand new one does. Gets us from point A to point B hopefully with a radio and AC.

PVC enclosures are great, the best, and wonderful. No one is arguing that. But instead of slamming people for using fish tanks or glass terrariums, why not educate them on how to make it the 'best' tank without belittling their choice?

So long as the animal has it's needs met in a healthy way, what is the issue? =/

[SSSSnakes]

I've had many PVC enclosure given to me with some of the adoption snakes that I get. I give them away, because I personally don't like them. Any enclosure can be made to work and I think it is what you prefer and what works best for you. No need to tell others that they are wrong, just because you prefer something else.

[Minkness]

I've had many PVC enclosure given to me with some of the adoption snakes that I get. I give them away, because I personally don't like them. Any enclosure can be made to work and I think it is what you prefer and what works best for you. No need to tell others that they are wrong, just because you prefer something else.

Exactly! ^_^

[Sublimeballs]

Minkness, I wasn't referring to you but the OP.

the thing is is the OP is trying to make glass tanks out to be better which is misinforming anyone that doesn't know better that might read this thread. We have a responsibility to advance our hobby and there is no room for misinforming the future generations of our hobby.

The fact that you said if you got a high humidity animal you'd get a tub proves that you understand the animals needs over your desires. Alot of people don't like tubs because they can't see their snake( which I consider a benefit, less stress on the snake) that's putting the animals needs behind your own. If its a question of money then tubs are the way to go.

I don't feel that anyone was bashing anyone for use of tanks, granted not all of the members on this forum are experts on message delivery; but they're are looking out for the animals interest. The facts are they arnt for reptiles.

[EL Ziggy]

It's all a matter of personal preference. There is no right or wrong answer as long as the animals needs are being met. There are pros and cons to all the options but they can all work effectively for most snakes. I keep kings and bulls in terrariums and tubs. Both are perfectly fine for these animals. The tubs are easier to clean and the terrariums are much better for viewing purposes but neither are any "better" for the snakes, just a little more convenient for me. The biggest reasons I'm upgrading to pvc enclosures is because I like the way they look for display and I can stack them if I want .

[Mikoh4792]

Tanks can work fine if modded. Unmodded, they are bad for reptiles unless you live in a place with good weather, or keep the tank in a room with controlled temps and humidity. As mentioned before, a glass tank with a lamp on top is essentially a dehydrator which is fine if you are keeping reptiles that don't require moderate to high humidity.

Plastic cages are specifically designed for reptiles so they are good the way they come.

[Zelg]

Tanks can work fine if modded. Unmodded, they are bad for reptiles unless you live in a place with good weather, or keep the tank in a room with controlled temps and humidity. As mentioned before, a glass tank with a lamp on top is essentially a dehydrator which is fine if you are keeping reptiles that don't require moderate to high humidity.

Plastic cages are specifically designed for reptiles so they are good the way they come.


This is my point (and maybe that of the OP as well) that people keep ignoring. Tanks can work just fine if you live in a climate similar to that which your reptile requires. Is it the best option? No, but that doesnt automatically make it a BAD option, does it?


Obviously if you keep your snakes in a cold, unheated basement, then a glass setup would be pretty stupid. But if you live out in the desert and its routinely dry and hot and thats how your reptile likes it then whats the problem?

[eminart]

This thread is absolutely full of garbage. A box for a snake isn't rocket science.

[Mikoh4792]

This thread is absolutely full of garbage. A box for a snake isn't rocket science.

Would that include your post as well?

[Sublimeballs]

So I just skimmed the tread again and I cant find anyone saying that tanks are bad; just that they arnt as good. Only people stating that you have to mod them.

[Kuamata]

Yeah, I've always used tanks but I do heavily modify them. I cut out styrofoam siding and backing and attach it to the outside walls to act as insulation, and cut out a top to cover the mesh, making sure I leave some space between a light fixture(if one is used) and the material so it doesn't burn. If I want to adhere perches, I use a harder styrofoam backing(like the 3D backgrounds) but cut holes for the perches and seal it behind the styrofoam wall decoration. I make sure to measure it inside the tank so I can make it a tight fit, no chance of a snake wedging itself back there. Back when I first started I just draped a soaking wet towel over the screen top with light fixture cut outs to keep humidity in/humidify the tank, but lord that was a huge pain. Much easier to use plexiglass or wood, once again, minding distance between any light fixtures.

[Marshallarts]

Just wanting to clear a few things up- not trying to convince anyone or say glass tanks are the best. Basically all I'm trying to say in this thread is why do people have such a hate on glass tanks? You have to modify any reptile cage whether it be plastic, wooden or glass. For example, with a glass tank you are going to have to cover the top. With a plastic cage, your going to have to drill holes for ventilation. You can't get a perfect cage, it's all about preference as others have said.

[JinxtheBP]

Woah! That escalated quickly.

When I first got Jinx back in college, when I wasn't actually supposed to have any pets at all, I kept him in a tub. He lived in a tub for three years, purely because it blended into my dorm room and I could easily hide him in the closet or under the bed. Little did I know that people actually use them because they want to! He did great in the tub. He does great in a tank as well.

In defense of tanks...

They're cheap and/or free. I didn't purchase a single one of mine, although I did purchase screen tops with clips to ensure that they're secure. I also purchased UTHs, which I can control with a thermostat.

As I mentioned, a plexiglass top with holes works flawlessly for my rainbow boa, which requires higher humidity. With a large water dish and proper substrate, I never have to mist, though I often do when it's sheddin' time. There are enough fakey foliage and hides in the tank to help with humidity and give my little guy his privacy. When my BPs or my corn are ready to shed, I give 'em a little mist and drape a towel over the top of the screen. Problem solved. They all also have access to water dishes large enough to soak in.

Despite my use of the dreaded tanks...All my snakes are active and in good health. That's what matters to me the most. Their temps and humidity are good and I get to enjoy looking at them. Unless I got into breeding, I'd never switch back to tubs. That said, I would definitely upgrade to glass fronts given the opportunity.

[CosmicOwl]

Just wanting to clear a few things up- not trying to convince anyone or say glass tanks are the best. Basically all I'm trying to say in this thread is why do people have such a hate on glass tanks? You have to modify any reptile cage whether it be plastic, wooden or glass. For example, with a glass tank you are going to have to cover the top. With a plastic cage, your going to have to drill holes for ventilation. You can't get a perfect cage, it's all about preference as others have said.

You should quit while you're ahead. Nobody here hates tanks. We just disagree with you and you're taking it personally.

[Mikoh4792]

Just wanting to clear a few things up- not trying to convince anyone or say glass tanks are the best. Basically all I'm trying to say in this thread is why do people have such a hate on glass tanks? You have to modify any reptile cage whether it be plastic, wooden or glass. For example, with a glass tank you are going to have to cover the top. With a plastic cage, your going to have to drill holes for ventilation. You can't get a perfect cage, it's all about preference as others have said.

We don't "hate" glass tanks. As mentioned by most people here, glass tanks are fine once modded. The reason why glass tanks get such a bad rap is because that's what most "noobies" start out with and they don't know to cover the screen top. They don't have experience with retaining humidity and temps. A glass tank and heat lamp is the setup that many pet stores just hand to people who get their first reptile(Ball python, boa...etc) and that's the type of setup most reptiles unnecessarily die in.

[eminart]

Would that include your post as well?

It would if I were making simple things overly complicated.

Are ready-made reptile enclosures overall better? Probably in most cases. They're easy and they work well. Does that mean it's wrong, or difficult to use a "fish tank"? No. I mean, I guess for someone who doesn't have the ability to cover a screen top, they might be difficult. They're also very cheap and work fine for anyone who doesn't have a huge collection.

I just get tired of seeing people, especially online, who like to pretend they have the answers to the mysterious art of whatever they happen to be discussing. There's more than one way to skin a cat. Tanks have been used for snakes successfully for twice as long as most of these people have been alive.

[Marshallarts]

Not saying any of you in specific hate tanks, but even some websites advise against glass tanks and even go to saying that they are dangerous. I'm not taking anything personally, I'm honestly just curious why some don't like them, or think they are not a good option. I think it's more the screen top that's the issue, if they made these tanks with glass tops they would be more beneficial. Unless I'm mistaken I believe it's even been scientifically proven that glass holds heat the best.

[Kuamata]

They actually do make glass tops, but I've only seen them for the larger tanks. :/ May be good for a snake, if you can find a way to secure it, but not so good for lizards. They'd probably break the glass, assuming it's thin and your lizard is of the tegu or monitor variety. Not to mention larger tanks are sooo heavy. I'd only use a larger one like that for temporary holding of a suitably sized reptile(like baby monitor less than a foot, baby retic, etc.) until I saved up for a couple of months to buy a nice PVC. The bigger reptiles, it's really just easier to go with a custom or PVC. Me being a short person, those big tanks are just way too heavy and big for me to efficiently clean.

[CosmicOwl]

Not saying any of you in specific hate tanks, but even some websites advise against glass tanks and even go to saying that they are dangerous. I'm not taking anything personally, I'm honestly just curious why some don't like them, or think they are not a good option. I think it's more the screen top that's the issue, if they made these tanks with glass tops they would be more beneficial. Unless I'm mistaken I believe it's even been scientifically proven that glass holds heat the best.

The problem is, they ARE dangerous if used as is. A lot of beginners get a screen top cage and a heat lamp because that's what the person at the pet store told them. If you fix them up, tanks aren't dangerous to your animal, but that's missing the point entirely.

[SSSSnakes]

The problem is, they ARE dangerous if used as is. A lot of beginners get a screen top cage and a heat lamp because that's what the person at the pet store told them. If you fix them up, tanks aren't dangerous to your animal, but that's missing the point entirely.

Any enclosure you buy has to be customized to fit the animal you plan to put into it. Any enclosure will work if you do your research and adjust it accordingly. You can kill any animal in any enclosure if you don't know what you are doing. If you are listening to a pet store to tell you how to keep your animal, then you have more issues than improper enclosure. You must do your own research and adjust your enclosure accordingly.

[marvelfreak]

They actually do make glass tops, but I've only seen them for the larger tanks. :/ May be good for a snake, if you can find a way to secure it, but not so good for lizards. They'd probably break the glass, assuming it's thin and your lizard is of the tegu or monitor variety. Not to mention larger tanks are sooo heavy. I'd only use a larger one like that for temporary holding of a suitably sized reptile(like baby monitor less than a foot, baby retic, etc.) until I saved up for a couple of months to buy a nice PVC. The bigger reptiles, it's really just easier to go with a custom or PVC. Me being a short person, those big tanks are just way too heavy and big for me to efficiently clean.
I use to have a couple that had glass tops and sliding fronts. They were stackable. They held humidity really well but not heat so great.

[Marshallarts]

I wouldn't say dangerous. They would most likely survive, just be pretty unhappy. And for a big lizard I would just make my own. Probably the cheapest option.

[JinxtheBP]

Any enclosure you buy has to be customized to fit the animal you plan to put into it. Any enclosure will work if you do your research and adjust it accordingly. You can kill any animal in any enclosure if you don't know what you are doing. If you are listening to a pet store to tell you how to keep your animal, then you have more issues than improper enclosure. You must do your own research and adjust your enclosure accordingly.

^^^ This. This, right here.

[Marshallarts]

^^^ This. This, right here.

Yes definitely

[Mikoh4792]

It would if I were making simple things overly complicated.

Are ready-made reptile enclosures overall better? Probably in most cases. They're easy and they work well. Does that mean it's wrong, or difficult to use a "fish tank"? No. I mean, I guess for someone who doesn't have the ability to cover a screen top, they might be difficult. They're also very cheap and work fine for anyone who doesn't have a huge collection.

I just get tired of seeing people, especially online, who like to pretend they have the answers to the mysterious art of whatever they happen to be discussing. There's more than one way to skin a cat. Tanks have been used for snakes successfully for twice as long as most of these people have been alive.

Most people here including me, seem to agree that glass tanks are fine when done right. I don't see anyone here treating it as a mysterious art.

[Sublimeballs]

I wouldn't say dangerous. They would most likely survive, just be pretty unhappy.

And this is based on what?

Care to explain the thousands of young varanids that have died from massive dehydration from being kept in UNmodified tanks with a heat light. You're speaking of things you know nothing of. Most,if not all, of us have said that modded tanks are fine but that doesn't seem to be enough.


As mentioned by most people here, glass tanks are fine once modded. The reason why glass tanks get such a bad rap is because that's what most "noobies" start out with and they don't know to cover the screen top. They don't have experience with retaining humidity and temps. A glass tank and heat lamp is the setup that many pet stores just hand to people who get their first reptile(Ball python, boa...etc) and that's the type of setup most reptiles unnecessarily die in.

If you fix them up, tanks aren't dangerous to your animal, but that's missing the point entirely

This is everyone's point.


You should quit while you're ahead. Nobody here hates tanks. We just disagree with you and you're taking it personally

I agree.

[Marshallarts]

And this is based on what?

Care to explain the thousands of young varanids that have died from massive dehydration from being kept in UNmodified tanks with a heat light. You're speaking of things you know nothing of. Most,if not all, of us have said that modded tanks are fine but that doesn't seem to be enough.



I'm not saying it's a good idea by any means. I'm sure lots have died in a unmodified tank. I was just simply stating that if you put a snake in a unmodded tank, it's not just going to die right away. From what I've researched these are pretty hardy snakes. No need to get defensive, I was not trying to suggest anything or be cheeky. I just wanted to point out that it's not exactly dangerous, but just not beneficial.

[Kuamata]

I wouldn't say dangerous. They would most likely survive, just be pretty unhappy.

Unhappiness = Stress.

Any animal can die of constant, persistant, or extreme stress. Including humans. I've experienced this first hand, as someone with an anxiety disorder. :) Prior to being diagnosed I stressed myself into a stomach ulcer over things that really weren't anything to stress over. If left untreated, they could eventually chew a hole right through your stomach and kill you. Not to mention stress can do soooo many other things to your body. Even extreme or persistant stress could cause seizures, strokes, or heart attacks in humans. Heart palpitions, cycle irregularities, you name it.

I'm not saying it's a good idea by any means. I'm sure lots have died in a unmodified tank. I was just simply stating that if you put a snake in a unmodded tank, it's not just going to die right away. From what I've researched these are pretty hardy snakes. No need to get defensive, I was not trying to suggest anything or be cheeky. I just wanted to point out that it's not exactly dangerous, but just not beneficial.

'Cause a slow torturous death is so much better. :) (I'm joking, by the way. That's just sadistic.)

[SnoopySnake]

I'm not saying it's a good idea by any means. I'm sure lots have died in a unmodified tank. I was just simply stating that if you put a snake in a unmodded tank, it's not just going to die right away. From what I've researched these are pretty hardy snakes. No need to get defensive, I was not trying to suggest anything or be cheeky. I just wanted to point out that it's not exactly dangerous, but just not beneficial.

Sure, it won't die right away. Its just going to suffer a long, painful death. If you put a rainbow boa in an unmodded tank with a heat lamp it will surely die much, much sooner than your ball python or something similar.

Why are you even trying to argue that it won't kill them right away? Does that make it any more okay for some reason? And don't say I'm hating on tanks because I use them myself. Also can you explain where glass has been scientifically proven to hold heat better?

[Kuamata]

Why are you even trying to argue that it won't kill them right away? Does that make it any more okay for some reason? And don't say I'm hating on tanks because I use them myself. Also can you explain where glass has been scientifically proven to hold heat better?

^ Agree. If a death is to occur at all, it's better to be quick than to drag it out. As I said, I use insulation on the sides of my tanks to hold in both humidity and moisture.

[CosmicOwl]

Sure, it won't die right away. Its just going to suffer a long, painful death. If you put a rainbow boa in an unmodded tank with a heat lamp it will surely die much, much sooner than your ball python or something similar.

Why are you even trying to argue that it won't kill them right away? Does that make it any more okay for some reason? And don't say I'm hating on tanks because I use them myself. Also can you explain where glass has been scientifically proven to hold heat better?


Honestly, it seems like this thread was started just to stir up some trouble.

[Kuamata]

Whoops, I meant "to hold in humidity and heat", lol.

[EL Ziggy]

It seems like most everyone is in agreement on principle but there's disagreement on details and preferences. Every enclosure has to be modified to some degree to suit any animal's needs. None of them will work without some modifications. I haven't heard anyone advocating the use of an unmodified enclosure. They all need heat sources, ventilation, thermostats, hides, water bowls, bedding, etc. Tanks, tubs and pvc cages can all work well when used properly and all cause problems when used improperly. It's the keepers choice as to what works best for them.

[Minkness]

Well said Ziggy!

[SSSSnakes]

It seems like most everyone is in agreement on principle but there's disagreement on details and preferences. Every enclosure has to be modified to some degree to suit any animal's needs. None of them will work without some modifications. I haven't heard anyone advocating the use of an unmodified enclosure. They all need heat sources, ventilation, thermostats, hides, water bowls, bedding, etc. Tanks, tubs and pvc cages can all work well when used properly and all cause problems when used improperly. It's the keepers choice as to what works best for them.

Well said. But with some people it has to be their way or it is wrong. Many animals are going to die slow a death in any enclosure if the person is not educated on what the animals needs are.

[jjhill001]

I think this question should be responded to with another question: What are you keeping?

[D Grade]

I personally think any way is good as long as you compromise using the snakes comfort as first priority. I just got my first snake today after researching here for a month. I decided to go with a 10 gal glass critter cage. I lined it with aspen bedding, supplied heat, a water dish, and two hides with one in the cool end and one in the warm end. I think this works for Colubrids and ground dwelling snakes but possibly not so much for tree dwellers and snakes that require alot of humidity.

[Sublimeballs]

I'm not saying it's a good idea by any means. I'm sure lots have died in a unmodified tank. I was just simply stating that if you put a snake in a unmodded tank, it's not just going to die right away. From what I've researched these are pretty hardy snakes. No need to get defensive, I was not trying to suggest anything or be cheeky. I just wanted to point out that it's not exactly dangerous, but just not beneficial.

This is so contradicting, first you say I'm sure many have died... But they're not dangerous. No one is saying that tanks can't be made to provide a proper environment; Adrian's rainbows are a great example as she just pointed out. And unmodded tanks with heat lamps do kill, they slowly dehydrate the until their body can no longer take it and die. This isn't an opinion, this is fact. I'm not getting defensive just pointing out the misinformation you're spreading. We are trying to share knowledge that you continually reject.

Again no one is saying modified tanks don't work, but unmodded tanks with heat lamps are dangerous.

[Minkness]

Just asking because I'm not seeing it, but who has said unmodded is ok? I see everyone agreeing that modded is ok so long as it meets the animals needs, but nothing saying anything about unmodded being just as good.

Not being cheeky, just would like someone to point it out to me please.

[Sublimeballs]

If you read the quote in my last post the op says that they(in reference to unmodded as that's was his response to a statement of mine about unmodded) arnt dangerous. He also said it a few post before, once again in a rebuttal to a statment about unmodded tanks.

[Minkness]

Ok, but is that in reference to the tank it's self or to the improper mod of a tank? Sorry for the confusion.

[Sublimeballs]

I was just simply stating that if you put a snake in a unmodded tank, it's not just going to die right away........ I just wanted to point out that it's not exactly dangerous, but just not beneficial.

And he also said this

I wouldn't say dangerous. They would most likely survive, just be pretty unhappy. And for a big lizard I would just make my own. Probably the cheapest option.




In reference to this post.

The problem is, they ARE dangerous if used as is. A lot of beginners get a screen top cage and a heat lamp because that's what the person at the pet store told them. If you fix them up, tanks aren't dangerous to your animal, but that's missing the point entirely.

No problem, I'm not just babbling on; I want to stop the misinformation.

[jjhill001]

What if you are keeping a desert species or something. Or the rooms ambient humidity is higher. (If you live in Florida or something) there are many variables that will decide your success level keeping an animal in any cage type. If you keep your humidity high by using a fogger or something like they do with some chameleons. The important thing is to find a way to meet the necessary care requirements.

The one thing I've learned is that there are few absolutes in hero care and everyone does things at least a little different based on the difficulties that present themselves in their own situation. Living in Northern Ohio I'm going to have a lot easier time with certain aspects of husbandry than someone from Central Texas or Florida and vise versa and all around. Does your family run an air conditioner (probably the biggest humidity killer there is) etc. These are just examples of different variables and my opinion on the overall thread.

There was a time when the only thing available was aquariums and plenty of those herps went on to defy what everyone though of the lifespans of reptiles in general (20 year old leopard geckos, corn snakes, ball pythons, tree frogs etc.) they had these life span information at least 15 years ago so 2000 and then 20 years before that I don't think many people had other options other than wooden enclosures which present their own difficulties.

[CosmicOwl]

What if you are keeping a desert species or something. Or the rooms ambient humidity is higher. (If you live in Florida or something) there are many variables that will decide your success level keeping an animal in any cage type. If you keep your humidity high by using a fogger or something like they do with some chameleons. The important thing is to find a way to meet the necessary care requirements.

The one thing I've learned is that there are few absolutes in hero care and everyone does things at least a little different based on the difficulties that present themselves in their own situation. Living in Northern Ohio I'm going to have a lot easier time with certain aspects of husbandry than someone from Central Texas or Florida and vise versa and all around. Does your family run an air conditioner (probably the biggest humidity killer there is) etc. These are just examples of different variables and my opinion on the overall thread.

There was a time when the only thing available was aquariums and plenty of those herps went on to defy what everyone though of the lifespans of reptiles in general (20 year old leopard geckos, corn snakes, ball pythons, tree frogs etc.) they had these life span information at least 15 years ago so 2000 and then 20 years before that I don't think many people had other options other than wooden enclosures which present their own difficulties.

Again, nobody is saying tanks are bad. It's just that there are options with fewer complications or drawbacks. That's all people like myself have been saying.

[Marshallarts]

Hm... I think I must have worded things wrong. I just don't think dangerous is the right word for it, but it is really unhealthy to keep them in a unmodded tank. And my bad, I thought you guys were meaning they would die instantly if put in a unmodified cage. Of course they would die eventually with the stress. I do not think its okay. And I'm not trying to argue either. Honestly im sorry I said anything at all. It's just caused too many opinions to rise.

[Minkness]

Ah, thanks Sublime. That puts things into perspective o.o

And JJ has a point as well..

Seems like this topic will go kn forever though. =/

[jjhill001]

Just asking because I'm not seeing it, but who has said unmodded is ok? I see everyone agreeing that modded is ok so long as it meets the animals needs, but nothing saying anything about unmodded being just as good.

Not being cheeky, just would like someone to point it out to me please.

What do you consider "unmodded"

[jjhill001]

Hm... I think I must have worded things wrong. I just don't think dangerous is the right word for it, but it is really unhealthy to keep them in a unmodded tank. And my bad, I thought you guys were meaning they would die instantly if put in a unmodified cage. Of course they would die eventually with the stress. I do not think its okay. And I'm not trying to argue either. Honestly im sorry I said anything at all. It's just caused too many opinions to rise.

Opinions and knowledge of other keepers is how you learn in a hobby where everyone is so spread out. Don't worry about it.

[Minkness]

Unmodded. The tank, screen lid, and a UTH or lamp of some kind since that is what is mostly sold as a 'starter' set....which irritates me personally since they sell starter sets specifically for leopard geckos with a UVB light instead of a UTH....grrr

However, I use tanks almost as is for my leos and cresties and have never had any issues. However, I have 'modded' the tank my kingsnake is in by draping a bit of shelving liner on the screen to hold in a bit more warmth and humidity. Other than that, the tank is 'unmoded' because it has the UTH, 2 hides, sanichips, and water dish.

The temps and humidity work for all the animals I personally keep however, especially since everyone gets a full misting once every other day or so (minus the kingsnake). However, if I were to get an animal that needed more, I would provide more.

[Sublimeballs]

Hm... I think I must have worded things wrong. I just don't think dangerous is the right word for it, but it is really unhealthy to keep them in a unmodded tank. And my bad, I thought you guys were meaning they would die instantly if put in a unmodified cage. Of course they would die eventually with the stress. I do not think its okay. And I'm not trying to argue either. Honestly im sorry I said anything at all. It's just caused too many opinions to rise.

Yes, this is the only reason I'm still posting on this practice in futility.

No, you just don't agree with us and are willing to make up or say whatever to be right. You're not. In truth you have no idea what you're talking about and keep refuting facts.

jjhill001, were not talking about tanks with foggers or anything. This spiral came from tanks with open screen lids and a heat light.


Ah, thanks Sublime. That puts things into perspective

Glad to provide clarity.

[jjhill001]

Again, nobody is saying tanks are bad. It's just that there are options with fewer complications or drawbacks. That's all people like myself have been saying.

This was more in response to the person saying that putting a snake into an aquarium with a light is going to cause it to shrivel up and dry out, like a frog apparently. This might be true with some species. I can't say I've studied every snake on the planet. I do know of a few species where this is absolutely true.

But it just isn't all cookie cutter like that. I don't know what specie that guy is talking about so I can't really say that he's wrong. But to just make a blanket statement like that is wrong. And leads to poor husbandry.

[Marshallarts]

Who says I'm not agreeing? Yes, tanks need to be modified to fit your reptiles needs. Yes, it is unhealthy to keep a reptile in a cage that is suited for their needs. Am I missing something? I could say you have no idea what your talking about as well, but I'm not here to cause drama. I'm a little confused why you seem offended?

Jj, I'm keeping a ball python in a 10 gal with a heat pad on rheostat and the top is covered with a towel. And I agree, every snake is different, even those of the same kind. They all have preferred unique care requirements. Some like it hotter, some cool. It really depends. I think this goes for all reptiles. My whites tree frog is supposed to have 60% humidity, but will burrow if it's over 50%.

[Sublimeballs]

This was more in response to the person saying that putting a snake into an aquarium with a light is going to cause it to shrivel up and dry out, like a frog apparently. This might be true with some species. I can't say I've studied every snake on the planet. I do know of a few species where this is absolutely true.

But it just isn't all cookie cutter like that. I don't know what specie that guy is talking about so I can't really say that he's wrong. But to just make a blanket statement like that is wrong. And leads to poor husbandry.

No one is saying if you put a snake in a tank with a light it's going to shrivel up like a frog. What is going to happen is.... let's say you put a snake or lizard that requires 60% humidity in a tank with a screen lid and a heat light. Your humidity is going to flow right out the top of the cage with the heat. Look up how a dehydrator works and you'll see what I'm on about. Now your running low humidity ( 20 something percent is about right for most of the US this time of year inside) every time your snake breathes its loosing its body water( exhale on glass and you have proof). This is the same reason monitor lizards need burrows, and tortoise need soaks/ proper humidity


No, what leads to poor husbandry is not accepting that something that is known to be dangerous is just that.

Please point out where anyone has promoted anything that would be cosidered poor husbandry other then the op.

[Sublimeballs]

Who says I'm not agreeing? Yes, tanks need to be modified to fit your reptiles needs. Yes, it is unhealthy to keep a reptile in a cage that is suited for their needs. Am I missing something? I could say you have no idea what your talking about as well, but I'm not here to cause drama. I'm a little confused why you seem offended?
.

If you feel I'm offended you're mistaken. I'm simply trying to educate and have to repeat myself when you dismiss it.

I quoted your responses where you clearly argued against open screen lids tanks with heat light being a reptile dehydrator. Again not opinion. I don't know if you don't realize the argument you've made or are just back peddeling to save face. This is nothing personal at all and I will hold no ill feelings as a result of any of this. But I cant have newbies find this thread on google in the future and think its fine because you've said it's not dangerous. I didn't say that you have no isea what you're talking about as an attack, it's true. You don't know about the subject and are not willing to hear what several experienced keepers are trying to teach you.

[jjhill001]

No one is saying if you put a snake in a tank with a light it's going to shrivel up like a frog. What is going to happen is.... let's say you put a snake or lizard that requires 60% humidity in a tank with a screen lid and a heat light. Your humidity is going to flow right out the top of the cage with the heat. Look up how a dehydrator works and you'll see what I'm on about. Now your running low humidity ( 20 something percent is about right for most of the US this time of year inside) every time your snake breathes its loosing its body water( exhale on glass and you have proof). This is the same reason monitor lizards need burrows, and tortoise need soaks/ proper humidity


No, what leads to poor husbandry is not accepting that something that is known to be dangerous is just that.

Please point out where anyone has promoted anything that would be cosidered poor husbandry other then the op.

Full Disclosure, just playing devils advocate on this because I'm genuinely interested in learning your thoughts because with the types of reptiles I've kept I've never really thought about humidity outside of adding a humid hide for a leopard gecko. (I've actually never kept a snake with a heat light either but that's not the point.)

First off all I said was that blanket statements aren't always the best idea (remember back when ALL reptiles needed UVB light). I've made beef jerky I know how a dehydrator works. I understand how condensation works as well.

I do take issue with saying something is known to be dangerous and I've never even heard of this being an issue with anything but tropical boas and pythons along with tropical lizards and most amphibians. I'd be interested in seeing the article you have stating this, I'm not calling you a liar because a lot of people seem to agree but I'd like to read about it in general.

Right now my house is about 40% humidity in a terrarium with a full water bowl would probably be a smidge higher, 87% in Miami FL right now. It would probably be lower if it was still stupid cold and the furnace was running all of the time. But I'm keeping Baird's Rat Snakes. I opened up every single care sheet I could find 7 of them (including 1 general rat snake and 1 texas rat snake (they share the same range and locales although they occupy different niches it appears).

Every one of them states either nothing about it, or to keep it low, occasionally raising it during sheds. Another says 40-60%, one says to take note if a snake is soaking a bit much as this implies much lower humidity than ideal and to find a way to raise humidity. One says that most homes already have correct humidity. And almost all of them say to make sure the humidity doesn't get too high or else problems will result.

I would say that in the case of my Florida example the exact thing you would WANT is an appropriate wattage heat lamp and a screen lid to help reduce some of the humidity in the tank. One care sheet actually warns to not allow humidity to be too high because it will cause respiratory infections.

So one could argue that if I'm sitting there in Florida with this desert snake that requires mid-range humidity and can't be kept too high for fear of health problems, that my snake may get sick if I keep it in a PVC enclosure with little tiny vents on the side for air.

Now if you send someone home with a 10 gallon aquarium and a 250 watt heating bulb and no thermostat, YES it's dangerous for probably most (IE ALL) animals in general.

I also like to live in la la land where everyone checks on their temps and humidity levels at least once a day just to make sure everything is all well and good so they can adjust accordingly. I understand that in general, a heating pad is better in almost every situation along with an optional fluorescent fixture (less heat) for light is preferable and what I have going on in my own terrariums.

I'm planning a rather elaborate setup in some 36 x 18 x 18 terrariums in which the good ole heat mat probably isn't going to be effective in creating the natural temp gradient I want for my snakes. My primary option is going to be a ceramic heat emitter. This terrarium also has EXTRA ventilation that is on the front and side and humidity even in a semi-arid setup will be a battle I'll have to fight. (although I have some thoughts on this but this has gotten long so I'll end it here.) And this is sort of why subject is very interesting to me.

Anyways wanted to see what you thought about those ideas.

[Mikoh4792]

Full Disclosure, just playing devils advocate

I think it's agreed that the exceptions are animals with low humidity requirements, or those living in climates where an otherwise "dehydrator" would make for a suitable enclosure.

It doesn't matter if it's a glass tank or a plastic cage. If the conditions are right, the conditions are right. It's just that glass tanks are often improperly setup by people who are just coming into reptile keeping(mostly due to pet store staff that give it to them as "starter kits").

[Sublimeballs]

I do take issue with saying something is known to be dangerous and I've never even heard of this being an issue with anything but tropical boas and pythons along with tropical lizards and most amphibians

Here's why this keeps going on and on. You take issue with stating its known to be dangerous then admit that you've heard it's an issue with certain animals.

Your creating an argument that I haven't made, the rest of your post has no merit at all in this conversation.



I think it's agreed that the exceptions are animals with low humidity requirements, or those living in climates where an otherwise "dehydrator" would make for a suitable enclosure.

It doesn't matter if it's a glass tank or a plastic cage. If the conditions are right, the conditions are right. It's just that glass tanks are often improperly setup by people who are just coming into reptile keeping(mostly due to pet store staff that give it to them as "starter kits").

Thank you mikoh, everyone that knows better seems to has given up.

[SSSSnakes]

It's just that glass tanks are often improperly setup by people who are just coming into reptile keeping(mostly due to pet store staff that give it to them as "starter kits").

These starter kits are designed and made by companies such as ZooMed, Zilla and other reptile companies, that say they have been designed for reptiles. The pet stores do not make these starter kits. I agree, these starter kits are Bad for reptiles in most cases. Are fight should be against these companies, that claim to be looking out for the reptiles best interest and not fighting against each other.

[Sublimeballs]

These starter kits are designed and made by companies such as ZooMed, Zilla and other reptile companies, that say they have been designed for reptiles. The pet stores do not make these starter kits. I agree, these starter kits are Bad for reptiles in most cases. Are fight should be against these companies, that claim to be looking out for the reptiles best interest and not fighting against each other.

^^^This, Thank you Jerry.

[Mikoh4792]

These starter kits are designed and made by companies such as ZooMed, Zilla and other reptile companies, that say they have been designed for reptiles. The pet stores do not make these starter kits. I agree, these starter kits are Bad for reptiles in most cases. Are fight should be against these companies, that claim to be looking out for the reptiles best interest and not fighting against each other.

That's correct, but it shouldn't take the blame off of pet store staff. Both companies and pet stores should be criticized. If you're going to be in the pet "business", you should do your best to educate newcomers. It's just as bad if you are the one selling an improper setup made by someone else.

[Sublimeballs]

I don't think Jerry was saying that there should be no blame on the pet stores but that the root cause is the big name reptile supply companies all in one starter kits.

Mikoh I agree, and I know what you meant as mom and pop pet stores around me make package deals aswell. Tank, lid, dome light, and day and night lights.

[Mikoh4792]

I don't think Jerry was saying that there should be no blame on the pet stores but that the root cause is the big name reptile supply companies all in one starter kits.

Mikoh I agree, and I know what you meant as mom and pop pet stores around me make package deals aswell. Tank, lid, dome light, and day and night lights.

Yup. I agree with Jerry, just wanted to be more specific.

[jjhill001]

Here's why this keeps going on and on. You take issue with stating its known to be dangerous then admit that you've heard it's an issue with certain animals.

Your creating an argument that I haven't made, the rest of your post has no merit at all in this conversation.

Thank you mikoh, everyone that knows better seems to has given up.

Why? 100% of animals in the reptile hobby aren't tropical species. And the original poster said snakes, not tropical snakes. I was hoping to engage in a healthy discussion because I don't know all the answers to the situations I brought up. But you just dismiss everything I say like those aren't real situations. Maybe you don't know because you only keep tropical species. That's fine not everyone can keep everything. But to say these questions and situations don't have merit does a disservice to every person not keeping ball pythons and boas (There are dozens of us!).

I admitted in the beginning part of that post that I was going to just be asking questions for the sake of questions, that's how discussions work, I'm not arguing just presenting possible alternatives hoping that someone knows the answer or can explain why these worries are or aren't something to be concerned about.

You basically decided that I'm stupid and my questions have no merit.

[CosmicOwl]

Also, let's be honest. Pet stores sell tanks and starter sets because they can mark up anything labeled "for reptiles". Take aspen, for an example. If you buy aspen in reptile section of petco, it will probably be 5-10 times more expensive than if you buy it in the rodent section on the same store. Terrariums can be marked up and sold for over $150 for a standar 40 gallon. They don't sell tubs because they can't mark them up without pricing themselves out of the market.

[Sublimeballs]

I never said you're stupid or anything of the sort. You're still not getting that this whole thing resulted from the op saying(as ive quoted) that unmodded tanks with screen lids and heat lamps( no added ambient room heat or humidity) arnt dangerous and wouldn't kill an animal(all species look, at the context used). That isn't true SOME animal WILL die in these setups. That is all I've pointed out. That's my whole point. You even point out "he said snakes, not tropical snakes" he didn't say non tropical snakes. He used a blanket statment and said that they're not dangerous in general.


You've put words in my mouth, and have missed the entire point of everything I've said. I've made no mention of desert species, but that these setups will kill SOME species.

[Sublimeballs]

Also, let's be honest. Pet stores sell tanks and starter sets because they can mark up anything labeled "for reptiles". Take aspen, for an example. If you buy aspen in reptile section of petco, it will probably be 5-10 times more expensive than if you buy it in the rodent section on the same store. Terrariums can be marked up and sold for over $150 for a standar 40 gallon. They don't sell tubs because they can't mark them up without pricing themselves out of the market.



Definitely. A tank, lid, heat lamp, a blue and red buld, bedding, bowl, expensive hides, ect.. Is much better for bussiness then an $8 tub, dollor store waterbowl, 2 rbi hides, newspaper, heat pad, and thermostat. Someone needs to start putting these starter kits together for sale. Pre solder iron punch the holes for the species the person has.

Even worse there are about 10 pet store around me that sell reptiles and reptile supplies(none are reptiles stores but pet stores).... Not a single one of them sells thermostats; not even the reptile brand ones.

[jjhill001]

I never said you're stupid or anything of the sort. You're still not getting that this whole thing resulted from the op saying(as ive quoted) that unmodded tanks with screen lids and heat lamps( no added ambient room heat or humidity) arnt dangerous and wouldn't kill an animal(all species look, at the context used). That isn't true SOME animal WILL die in these setups. That is all I've pointed out. That's my whole point. You even point out "he said snakes, not tropical snakes" he didn't say non tropical snakes. He used a blanket statment and said that they're not dangerous in general.


You've put words in my mouth, and have missed the entire point of everything I've said. I've made no mention of desert species, but that these setups will kill SOME species.

Fair enough.

[Sublimeballs]

Fair enough.

Cool, I'm glad I could clear that up.

[Primal Rage]

Fish tanks, front opening glass terrariums, and rack/tub systems all work fine. I use all of these and my collection is thriving. In fact 20-25 years ago commercial racks and terrariums did not even exist. Everyone had their snakes and lizards in fish tanks or homemade wood cages. For some reason back then animals seemed to live longer as well!

It is up to the hobbyist to design and set up the environment properly for which ever species is going to be housed in it. I keep hearing this nonsense about screen tops being a bad thing. Well if you utilize UVB and or UVA light for your animals or plants using a screen top is unavoidable. That is unless you put the lights inside the tank... No thanks there. Yes, if you are housing a humidity loving species you are going to have to figure out a way to help maintain AH throughout the day. I think challenges like this are what makes the hobby so interesting, amusing, and fascinating. Just my 2 cents!

[Marshallarts]

Fish tanks, front opening glass terrariums, and rack/tub systems all work fine. I use all of these and my collection is thriving. In fact 20-25 years ago commercial racks and terrariums did not even exist. Everyone had their snakes and lizards in fish tanks or homemade wood cages. For some reason back then animals seemed to live longer as well!

It is up to the hobbyist to design and set up the environment properly for which ever species is going to be housed in it. I keep hearing this nonsense about screen tops being a bad thing. Well if you utilize UVB and or UVA light for your animals or plants using a screen top is unavoidable. That is unless you put the lights inside the tank... No thanks there. Yes, if you are housing a humidity loving species you are going to have to figure out a way to help maintain AH throughout the day. I think challenges like this are what makes the hobby so interesting, amusing, and fascinating. Just my 2 cents!
Thanks for your input! I think that reptiles lasted longer because care was a lot more simple, and it still should be. Some people just go all out and buy crazy expensive supplies, but it's the simple easy stuff that gets you places.

[Mikoh4792]

I keep hearing this nonsense about screen tops being a bad thing. Well if you utilize UVB and or UVA light for your animals or plants using a screen top is unavoidable.

Unless you are keeping an animal with low humidity requirements, or live in an area with a suitable climate(or a climate controlled room), screen tops are most definitely a bad thing. Unless of course, you cover the screen and only leave the bits that need to be used up by a heat lamp or a uvb light un-covered. But that wouldn't be any different than having a plastic cage with a screen cut out for a heat lamp/light).

[Primal Rage]

Right now all I keep are high humidity species of reptile and they are fine with screen tops. Yes, my 55 gal has towels on top which make it a bit unsightly but the towels work PERFECT for maintaining humidity, and heat. The towels are easier to move around and clean versus having glass or acrylic plates covering the top.(A bit safer too)

I only keep snakes and geckos which can handle moderate daily drops and increases in temps and humidity. You are correct Mikoh4792, I think if I had dart frogs, thumbnails, or anything else along those lines it might be a bit more challenging maintaining a constant 90-100 percent AH.. That said, almost everyone here lives in a climate controlled home or apartment. My reptile room has a humidifier that I run when temps drop outside and I have to crank the heat. I would say most people with an entire room(s) dedicated to a reptile or amphibian collection have very similar set ups.

The vast majority of breeders that I know of working with small to medium sized tropical reptiles and amphibians use screen top glass enclosures. The key is hand misting 2-3 times a day(which I do) or setting up a MistKing or Monsoon system for the tanks. The idea of having a plastic tank with heat lamps scares the crap out of me. Plastic will start to release toxic fumes when heated to a certain temp. Plastic and glass have VERY different physical and molecular properties. I would NOT compare the two as being similar. Again just my 2cents.

[Mikoh4792]

Right now all I keep are high humidity species of reptile and they are fine with screen tops. Yes, my 55 gal has towels on top which make it a bit unsightly but the towels work PERFECT for maintaining humidity, and heat. The towels are easier to move around and clean versus having glass or acrylic plates covering the top.(A bit safer too)

I only keep snakes and geckos which can handle moderate daily drops and increases in temps and humidity. You are correct Mikoh4792, I think if I had dart frogs, thumbnails, or anything else along those lines it might be a bit more challenging maintaining a constant 90-100 percent AH.. That said, almost everyone here lives in a climate controlled home or apartment. My reptile room has a humidifier that I run when temps drop outside and I have to crank the heat. I would say most people with an entire room(s) dedicated to a reptile or amphibian collection have very similar set ups.

The vast majority of breeders that I know of working with small to medium sized tropical reptiles and amphibians use screen top glass enclosures. The key is hand misting 2-3 times a day(which I do) or setting up a MistKing or Monsoon system for the tanks. The idea of having a plastic tank with heat lamps scares the crap out of me. Plastic will start to release toxic fumes when heated to a certain temp. Plastic and glass have VERY different physical and molecular properties. I would NOT compare the two as being similar. Again just my 2cents.

I think we're agreeing, but in different ways. We agree that screen tops are fine if covered to an extent, or if the climates the tanks are in are controlled.

[Primal Rage]

LOL!! You are absolutely right!!!!

[Mikoh4792]

LOL!! You are absolutely right!!!!

Freaking awesome!!

[jjhill001]

Doesn't anyone have trouble with poor airflow by covering up all the ventilation on their enclosures?

[Kuamata]

Not I. There's enough space between the cut out and the lamp cover to allow air to flow in and out reasonably.

[Sublimeballs]

Doesn't anyone have trouble with poor airflow by covering up all the ventilation on their enclosures?


You need alot less airflow then you would think, it was commonly thought in the past that airflow was nessicary for tortoise to prevent RI. Now people completely close off the tops and rely on just the air exchange of opening up to feed daily.

[Aaron_S]

Man...this thing esclated quickly.

[Sublimeballs]

I'm surprised you didn't have a word in it Aaron.

[Aaron_S]

I'm surprised you didn't have a word in it Aaron.

I know right?!

[Sublimeballs]

I know right?!

We covered it pretty well. I kept waiting to see a post from you though.

[Aaron_S]

We covered it pretty well. I kept waiting to see a post from you though.

Totally forgot about this thread.

Silly argument. I'm over it. Animal well kept? Healthy? Secure? Good enough for me.

People can use whatever they want so long as the animal is kept correctly.

[Marshallarts]

Totally forgot about this thread.

Silly argument. I'm over it. Animal well kept? Healthy? Secure? Good enough for me.

People can use whatever they want so long as the animal is kept correctly.

That's what's important.:)