Help!

[Marshallarts]

Does anyone here know anything about frogs? I have two whites tree frogs, Bubba and Spike. Well recently Bubba has developed some bright green/yellow spots and blotches on his back, and they disappear and reappear quite frequently. I do not want to give him any medication or take him to the vet. I have done research and talked to others who treated their frogs with Baytril and other things, the outcome is always a dead frog it seems. He eats great, breathes great, and moves great. Does anyone have any input on this? 30561 here is a picture.

[Marshallarts]

This picture isn't very good, I will try to get a better one later. Also, the spots have since grown bigger and "moved " up onto his lower back.

[marvelfreak]

Wish i could help you but i don't know anything about frogs. But hopefully some can help. Plus i just bump this for you.

I do know you don't want to put anything on a frog it could kill them. Might need to see a vet.

[David VB]

Dunno anything bout frogs, but since he's male, it could have something to do with impressing the females in breeding season?

[Marshallarts]

Well thanks for trying to help:)

I really would prefer not to go to a vet because frankly their guess is as good as mine and I'm not paying 200$ for them to tell me my frog is dying and theirs nothing I can do about it.


Someone did tell me that it might have to do with his age, he is a maturing male and is "discovering himself " so that might be the cause

[SnoopySnake]

I would join a frog forum and ask there :)

[Zoo Nanny]

A good vet will be able to do a scraping of the effected area to determine if it's a fungal infection. Fungal infections are now being treated in amphibians with positive outcomes.
There is some good info in this article. 326 Zoological Medicine 2008, Spring and Fall 2008 - Tufts OpenCourseWare (http://ocw.tufts.edu/Content/60/lecturenotes/799308)

[SoPhilly]

I used to keep whites tree frogs about 10 years ago - that looks like it could be a fungal infection to me... can you get another pic? If it is, you really have to get him to an exotics specializing vet - he doesn't necessarily need Baytril, but he may need an antifungal bath solution. Two of my white's had light greenish yellowish spots like that - i took them to a good herp vet an hour and a half away and we did an antifungal bath (this was too long ago for me to remember what the medication was) for both of them. One didn't make it, the other was cured and lived for years. Do you have a decent exotics vet around? I'd also quarantine until you figure out what's going on. Hope your guy gets better!

[Marshallarts]

Exactly, one of your frogs didn't make it. The stress of taking a frog to a vet is enough to kill it, I'm not risking that. Frogs almost always die anyways no matter what treatment you give them when they are sick. The only exotics vet around charges 200$ for an exam, and 100$ for a fecal test. I can't afford that. And another thing, if my frog is sick, I'm not going to give it all these treatments that might cause it harm, pain, or discomfort, I'm sure the frog would prefer to die.

I'm not sure how this could possibly be a bacterial or fungus infection, I just cleaned the cage out, the water get changes everyday, the cage is extremely clean.

[Zoo Nanny]

The stress of taking a frog to a vet is enough to kill it, I'm not risking that. Frogs almost always die anyways no matter what treatment you give them when they are sick.
This is very inaccurate information that you have gotten. Fungal infections if treated early are curable. Letting the animal continue to be sick and die is not right.
Prime example here. Animals in the wild specifically Panama are being trapped and treated for this fungal infection in hopes of saving the population.
Chytrid Fungus (http://www.savethefrogs.com/threats/chytrid/)
Another article
Chytrid Fungus and Amphibian Declines - Gates Of The Arctic National Park & Preserve (U.S. National Park Service) (http://www.nps.gov/gaar/naturescience/chytrid-fungus-and-amphibian-declines.htm)

[Marshallarts]

I don't even know how many stories I've read on forums where they treat it and it dies.

[Marshallarts]

Another really weird thing happening to bubba with these spots is they will disappear and reappear in different places and sizes.

[Zoo Nanny]

The problem is, is that you are not wiling to even give him a chance to get well if he is sick. Everything is going to die at some point why speed it up? I live by one rule, that is I only have the pets that I can afford to care for. This includes veterinary care. It may not be within my budget at the time but there is normally a way to balance it out.

[Cmwells90]

I've kept frogs in the past but I've never expirence a fungal infection. I would still recommend taking it to a vet, however this has already been shot down twice by you, so I can't think of another answer. I don't think we'll have an answer for you, we can only tell you what we've seen and what we'd do, and that's be offered.

[Evanthomas]

it may be a parasite, i believe my friend had a frog like that with similar symptoms. she brought him to the vet and was given discounted treatment because the vet was honest and said he didn't really know what to do. the vet gave him something, i can't remember what but she said the worms came through the skin and she even had one in a little glass like perfume sample bottle it was creepy. the frog did live for at least a year after the treatment i believe, although i think it did come back.

[Marshallarts]

Well good news, the spots are leaving WITHOUT treatment. Just gotta let nature take its course, especially with amphibians because they are such complex beings.

[Zoo Nanny]

Well good news, the spots are leaving WITHOUT treatment. Just gotta let nature take its course, especially with amphibians because they are such complex beings.

According to your original post this is not new.
"Well recently Bubba has developed some bright green/yellow spots and blotches on his back, and they disappear and reappear quite frequently."
I hope for Bubba's sake that this is nothing.

[Sublimeballs]

Well good news, the spots are leaving WITHOUT treatment. Just gotta let nature take its course, especially with amphibians because they are such complex beings.

This is based on what?

You've been given the best advice you can get... Go to the vet! If you're not going to listen to good advice, don't ask for it. This is a very quick way to end up on everyone bad list on this forum; I've seen it play out many times.

[marvelfreak]

Well good news, the spots are leaving WITHOUT treatment. Just gotta let nature take its course, especially with amphibians because they are such complex beings.
What no picture show how handsome he looks now that they're gone?

[Primal Rage]

Lol, those yellow spots are normal on Whites Tree frogs. You are fine dude. Not fungus, not bacteria, not a parasite. If anything it is a hormonal reaction...

[Marshallarts]

Lol, those yellow spots are normal on Whites Tree frogs. You are fine dude. Not fungus, not bacteria, not a parasite. If anything it is a hormonal reaction...

Another person told me this as well. He is a developing male, so it would make sense. I honestly don't think its possible to be a fungus, I'm a bit of a clean freak when it comes to my pets.

I will get a picture of him soon:)

And what I meant by disappearing and reappearing frequently is that they do that throughout the day, so yes it is fairly new.

Not trying to be stubborn, but in reality a vet can't help me if he were to have some sort of disease. They can give him meds but this rarely works. The important thing is that he's eating, pooping, jumping, croaking and the spots are leaving.

[Zoo Nanny]

Being a clean freak doesn't stop fungus/fungal infections. I'm really happy that Primal Rage knows what's going on and it's not sick. You on the other hand need to do some research on veterinary care available in your area. Also do some reading on the care being given to frogs and other amphibians around the world by veterinarians trying to save the species. In reality it is you who has the problem, convince yourself the vet can't help then you don't need to spend $$ on your animals and won't feel quilty if it dies. Sorry but anyone who feels that they don't need to bring their animals to the vet doesn't deserve the animal.

[Marshallarts]

I know being clean doesn't stop fungal infections but it certainly minimizes the chance. I have done plenty of research on vets in my area and around the world who treat frogs, but I've heard too many stories about the frog either dying or just not being happy. If I thougt it would be beneficial I would happily spend the 300$ for Bubba.

[Sublimeballs]

That's the problem, you've convinced yourself that a vet can't help with anything anyway so you'll not go to the vet... You're not qualified to make that assessment. You've made every argument you can to convince us that the vet is just a waste of time when it's just that you dont want to pay for it. You even said that the frog would probably rather die a slow death then go to the vet. This was nothing but what if you run into a real problem?

[Kuamata]

That's the problem, you've convinced yourself that a vet can't help with anything anyway so you'll not go to the vet... You're not qualified to make that assessment. You've made every argument you can to convince us that the vet is just a waste of time when it's just that you dont want to pay for it. You even said that the frog would probably rather die a slow death then go to the vet. This was nothing but what if you run into a real problem?

Probably say the same thing, the whole too bad, so sad, you're better off dying in agony with me than risking a trip to the vet that may save you or relieve your suffering, at least. :/ Very irresponsible mindset, imho.

[Marshallarts]

If I come across a treatable problem, I would get the treatment from a vet. While bacterial infections sometimes can be cured, it is very rare. Same with red leg, there's really nothing you can do about it and you would be better off putting the frog down. And as I have said, it's not that I don't want to pay for it, but I reallywould prefer not to stress him out that much, and from my research I don't believe vets can provide me with anything helpful other than a diagnosis. Not trying to convince anyone about anything, just what I believe. The important thing is that he's okay.

[Sublimeballs]

But this whole thread clearly points out that you're not quailfied to diagnose issues in your animal, and if it were untreatable you put the animal down not let it suffer. You saying the vet can't help is you lying to yourself. The vet can tell you if anything can be done.

Edit: at this point the important thing is others that read this thread take away that doing nothing about an animals issues because you read that they might not respond well to treatment is never the way to go.

[Marshallarts]

I would never let the animal suffer a death, I would put it down if it was suffering. My animal is okay, others who have treated their frogs well, they don't have a frog anymore

[Zoo Nanny]

I would never let the animal suffer a death, I would put it down if it was suffering.
Seriously how do you know if your animal is suffering? You can only guess and guessing is just not good enough.
So tell me since you have read so much and know so much why is the team in Panama catching the toads and frogs down there? If they are untreatable why are the vets bothering? Oh by the way the animals in Panama have chytrid.

Project launched to fight frog-killing fungus - Technology & science - Science | NBC News (http://www.nbcnews.com/id/30686761/ns/technology_and_science-science/t/project-launched-fight-frog-killing-fungus/#.VLJlvivF-3c)
Panama Amphibian Rescue and Conservation Project | Zoo New England (http://www.zoonewengland.org/protect/around-the-globe/panama-amphibian-rescue-and-conservation-project)

[Sublimeballs]

I would never let the animal suffer a death, I would put it down if it was suffering. My animal is okay, others who have treated their frogs well, they don't have a frog anymore

The only exotics vet around charges 200$ for an exam, and 100$ for a fecal test. I can't afford that. And another thing, if my frog is sick, I'm not going to give it all these treatments that might cause it harm, pain, or discomfort, I'm sure the frog would prefer to die.

Your words. I can't afford it, not gonna risk trying to save it you'll just let it die. This was in response to someone telling you they took 2 frogs to the vet for antifungal treatment and one healed properly and lived for years afterwards. You ignored the fact that one took well to treatment and are only willing to hear that one died.

Exactly, one of your frogs didn't make it. The stress of taking a frog to a vet is enough to kill it, I'm not risking that. Frogs almost always die anyways your words

[Marshallarts]

I think this thread is getting a bit out of hand. Bubba is happy and healthy, and to me that's all that matters.

If a mod could close this thread is be really appreciative

[Kuamata]

We're making a valid point, not breaking forum rules. :/ It really irritates me how you contradict yourself to try and make yourself look better. That already shows you know you're wrong. Then you throw your hands up and say things are getting out of hand when someone calls you on it. Things getting a little too real for you?

Bottom line, if you can't make a vet visit happen when necessary, you should not have the animal. I may not be rich, but when I suspect something is wrong, I will gladly go hungry. I recently spent nearly $400 just to be told my macaw is healthy. You know what? I'm happy to have done that because now I have peace of mind that his liver isn't damaged and his kidneys are fine. Something you will never have with your mindset.

[Marshallarts]

Birds are different, people actually study them and can treat them successfully. Amphibians just don't get that kind of attention. Seriously, look it up. I know you are not breaking forum rules, but this thread isn't going anywhere. To me, my choices are common sense. To others maybe not. Not trying to make myself look good, or change your mind. Today I'm going to talk to somebody experienced with frogs and see if they can help me out. To me, that's much more beneficial than taking it to a vet.

[Kuamata]

No where did I say they're like birds, I was making a point that it shouldn't matter how much you have to spend to make sure your animals are healthy. If you can't afford it, plain and simple, give the animal to someone who can and knows how to care for it.

You can't really expect to come to a forum of dedicated herpers, say you can't afford vet care and don't want to take your animal to a vet anyways, backed by some horrible excuse, and not expect to get some flack for your irresponsibility.

[Zoo Nanny]

Just for the record birds are just as difficult to treat as herps also being a new field of study. Both are very susceptible to having bad reactions to drugs of all types. Just because of that doesn't mean you don't try.
Kuamata has got it, you do without when you take on the responsibility of a life.
I've known others that have gone above and beyond for their animals. When they hit hard times and couldn't afford the care they turned to rescues to help, even if it meant giving up the animal. I've known others that have sold off belongings to pay vet bills. These are people who should have animals in their lives. People who refuse to accept responsibility should be banned from owning any pet.
I would love to get another lizard right now but I can't. I know that I can't afford any more vet bills.
Up until this point people have been very kind to you and tried to help. Your frogs deserve this help, but you do not deserve these frogs.

[Marshallarts]

Talked to some people who know what they're talking about, he's fine, it's just a mating thing. I'm not going to bother responding to these threads anymore, I'm just repeating myself and so are you