How much is too much?

[Minkness]

What signs should be looked for to up feed (size/quantity) or if it's too much? Not just too big, but too often or too many.

What are the drawbacks of over feeding?

What happens if too much is ingested?

[drumcrush]

what I look for is thickness of the prey item. i feed a prey item 1.5x the thickest part of the snake. when the snake is the same thickness as the food, I will feed 2 prey items a couple of feeds then I move up a size. This is how I do it and what works for me, everyone does it a bit different.

I would feed every 7-10 days.

now if the snake takes too much, it will most likely regurgitate it. However, just because the snake regurgitates it does not mean it is from the prey item its self as it could also be from lack of heat, etc.

also, if it is too big, the snake most likely won't attempt to eat it.

[sharthun]

IMO, you should feed a young snake more frequently. I don't think you can over feed a young snake. I feed my young ones every 3 to 5 days until they approach yearling age, then I move to a weekly schedule. Of course every snake is different so I try adapt to their metabolism and schedule and not mine.

[EL Ziggy]

I don't have a set schedule but on average I feed young colubrids every 4-6 days until they're a year old and then I feed them every 7-10 days. I usually feed them 10-15% of their body weight per feeding. Younger snakes sometimes get up to 20%. If I feed them a larger meal there's a longer gap between meals and if they have a smaller meal they eat a little sooner. I also agree that a prey size that's 1-1.5 x the widest part of the snake's body is appropriate. You'll start to recognize when your snake is hungry but be careful with kings, they can be a bit greedy. There are many drawbacks to overfeeding. Obesity causes health problems in snakes just like any other animal.

[Obsidian_Dragon]

I still sometimes regard figuring out snake feeding to be some sort of wizardry. There's so many variables. I have had my king on a weekly schedule since I got him; I don't THINK I'm underfeeding him, although by the Munson plan I am, sort of? But that's for cornsnakes? I don't know. I've been winging it based on the 10-15% "rule" and hoping someone would yell at me if I was doing it obviously wrong.

I think you CAN over feed babies and that encouraging too rapid a growth isn't a healthy thing, but it seems unlikely it's something you'd do by accident.

Drum's method seems to be the norm, although as I said, I've been going by weight rather than width. Mostly because I find it hard to gauge, visually. I could bring one of the bagged mice over TO the snake to see, but with my luck lately that sounds like how I'd get my first bite. ;)

ETA: Oi, now I'm sitting here panicking about underfeeding my snake. Aaaaaah. (This is not the first time.)

[EL Ziggy]

As OD said, the Munson feeding plan is another good feeding guideline. I saw slow but steady growth using this method but I thought it was a bit conservative. When I switched to the 10-15% of body weight formula I saw a noticeable growth spurt. My snakes are healthy and robust but none are overweight.

[Minkness]

Thanks guys!

I suck at % but I weighed my girl before feeding and she was 22g. So I fed her 2 pinks about the size of her middle. Together they weighed 5g. I wanted to keep her on a more frequent feeding schedule so figured every 3-5 days. I just didn't want to over do it. ^__^

[sharthun]

IMO,Feeding snakes is not an exact science.I think they are opportunistic feeders and we try to provide that opportunity for them. If they smell food and they are hungry, they will eat. It's a learning process over time for me. Lot's of behavioral observation and some trial and error. The question of how much and how often to feed can be very subjective. It's just very difficult to duplicate their natural habitats and natural history in an enclosure indoors, so we do the best we can with breeding and seasonal behavior changes thrown in the mix, not to mention the differences in metabolism and differences between species.

[Minkness]

Very true. Which is why I asked what the signs of over feeding are so I know what to look out for. Like...I have seen obese cats, dogs, horses, and even geckos, but I've never seen a fat snake...except for pythons which seem to just naturally be big around the middle.

[EL Ziggy]

Thanks guys!

I suck at % but I weighed my girl before feeding and she was 22g. So I fed her 2 pinks about the size of her middle. Together they weighed 5g. I wanted to keep her on a more frequent feeding schedule so figured every 3-5 days. I just didn't want to over do it. ^__^

Sounds perfect. If she can eat 2 pinkys easily, she'll be on fuzzys in no time. I think my snakes were on pinks for about 4-6 weeks before moving up to fuzzys.

[Minkness]

Well, she's 4 month's old. I can't compare sizes though. The petco I get the pinks from come in opaque baggies so I can't see the actual sizes. I guess I could just buy one and see the size when I get home and if it's too big just keep it in the freezer.

Also, is there a difference in nutrition between mice and rats? Just curious.

[EL Ziggy]

I'm not sure of the nutritional differences between mice and rats but rats do seem to be a bit more dense. A rat pink (3-9g) can weigh as much as a mouse fuzzy (4-6g) or hopper (7-12g) but they're not much larger than than a mouse pink. I think my snakes grew a bit faster on rats. And when your snake get a little larger you'd rather feed one rat as opposed to 3 or 4 mice. Those Petco mice are pretty expensive. You may want to try finding a trusted local supplier or consider ordering in bulk online. It's definitely worth it, even for one snake, if you have the freezer space available.

[Minkness]

No real freezer space but I do have another place I can get some, just not in town and I needed somewhere convenient due to holiday rush and such lol.

I wish I could just order some off line but mom said she doesn't want to 'see' them in the tiny freezer we currently have. The feeder breeders in town only offer live and charge way more than petco (i don't have the best rep community where I live....)

[EL Ziggy]

Yeah, I know the feeling. My girlfriend made me get a separate mini-freezer for my feeders. I had to spend $200 for a new one because I couldn't find a good used one on CL.

[Minkness]

Yeah, my mom mentioned me getting my own freezer if I want to keep a bunch in there, but we are in a tiny apartment and I have no where to put it x.x

So, for a while anyway, I will buy about 6 at a time which lasts me about a week and a half, so I'll be making rodent runs every week x.x

It's worth it to have my baby though ^_^

[Cmwells90]

Honestly if you're only feeding 1 snake, then your local pet store may be the more cost efficient way. Ordering online is great but you do have to buy a lot otherwise the shipping cost isn't worth it.

[Minkness]

That's what I figured. I mean, I want more snakes one day, may even have another by march depending on some things, but even when I had 20 leopard geckos and went through 1k super worms a month, it was still cheaper to buy locally simply because of the shipping because the purchase cost was good.

I'm hoping to stock up like crazy at the next repticon lol. I'm hoping they have silk, butter, and horn worms this time!

My saving grace is that I have 11 leos now, just found a local small super worm breeder where I can get 500 at a time for super cheap, and I have my own breeding colony of dubias lol.

I like to breed my own if at all possible, so if I get alot of snakes, I'll probably start breeding my own mice or rats, especially since I like them as pets anyway lol. Keep the adult rats as pets/breeders and euth the offspring for feeders. Those plans are faaaaar away though. =)

[EL Ziggy]

Honestly if you're only feeding 1 snake, then your local pet store may be the more cost efficient way. Ordering online is great but you do have to buy a lot otherwise the shipping cost isn't worth it.

I'm going to disagree here. I think storage space is the only real issue. Even for a single snake ordering online is far more cost efficient than paying pet store prices. I'll provide an example. At Petsmart (6) mouse pinks or (6) mouse fuzzys are $13 per box. The OP says a box of (6) lasts her a week and a half. At those prices six boxes would cost $78 and last roughly nine weeks. That's a total of (36) feeders. For $74 she could order (50) mouse fuzzys AND (50) mouse hoppers from Big Cheese. That includes the shipping costs. That's (100) feeders, which should last about (8) months if you're feeding two prey items every 5 days. If she only ordered (50) fuzzys that's $49 with shipping included which would only buy (4) boxes, or (24) feeders, at Petsmart.

[Minkness]

Perhaps frozen rodents are different than live insects. I haven't looked online yet. Also, the petsmart I go to sells them in singles and in 3s and it's like 1$ per pink over all (i could be wrong because I didn't look that closely and this was only my 1st purchase). If the prices really are that different though I miiiight be able to talk my mom into letting me have some freezer space if I keep then in a shoebox or something lol

[drumcrush]

I'm lucky my parents don't care that I keep rodents in the freezer I'm planning on placing an order with big cheese soon. prices are waaaaay better than petsmart and the local petstore I have been going to.

[sharthun]

I'm lucky my parents don't care that I keep rodents in the freezer I'm planning on placing an order with big cheese soon. prices are waaaaay better than petsmart and the local petstore I have been going to.

Great idea Kyle! I will probably make another trip to BC next week.