My ACE prefers cold?

[Ace4me]

Does anyone know why my boa seems to prefer cold?
I give him a warm water pan to soak in but he stays in it even after it is seemingly way too cold for a snake. So then I will put a heat lamp nearby for whatever warmth that might provide and he will leave the area completely.
Is he running from the light or the heat?
I thought snakes needed/had to have very warm temps?

[Ace4me]

This is his royal highness coiled around the bathroom tub faucet, LOL.
I had dumped him and his water dish into the tub, left the room for a few minutes and found him like this upon my return.

[CrotalusR#1]

How hot is the hot side?

[Minkness]

Love the pic lol

[shaunyboy]

How hot is the hot side?

^^^^^
this mate

we need temperature details to give you an educated opinion


cheers shaun

[Ace4me]

He doesn't have a hot side actually. Since he was always NOT near warmth (72-80 depending on how dim or bright I had the lamp on), I gave up the aquarium and have been letting him hang out wherever he chooses to in the house (and boy! has he chosen some doozies!!).
The past few days, that has meant my bedroom closet containing his tub of water (cold as usual :( ), the bags and a jacket he likes to hide in, etc. Last night, I added the heat lamp and the choice to feed (large thawed rat) and instead, he attempted to leave said room and therefore, the option of heat.
I just don't get it. He isn't in any harm this way is he?

[pdomensis]

You put him in the closet? With a heat lamp?

Provide a good gradient with plenty of hides and let him decide where he needs to be. My snakes are almost always on the cool side except for 24 to 48 hrs after feeding when they need to boost metabolism for digestion. Post pics of your setup and you'll get some suggestions on how to tweak it if needed.

[Obsidian_Dragon]

I...

I....

I've got nothing, man.

[smy_749]

Horrible husbandry, wtf. Get a proper enclosure, get a thermostat. There is no such thing as a snake going against what nature designed. Your husbandry is off.

[Obsidian_Dragon]

Okay, I lied, I've got something.

Put your snake back in its enclosure. Have a heat source with a thermostat. Set it to the proper temps and assume your snake uses it. Unless you literally sit there 24/7 and do nothing but stare at your snake, you can't say what he does and does not do. A snake is not a creature you can safely let free roam your house.

[shaunyboy]

is this thread real ???????????????????????????????????????????????

if so.....

ive heard it all now :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:


cheers shaun

[pdomensis]

It's a gorgeous snake. I hope this gets fixed.

[Minkness]

......

I had a friend who let her rat free roam her house...but she would come when called...

A snake though? =/

[CrotalusR#1]

So if I understand correctly, you allow your large boa to free roam your house and it finds it's own place to live???
That's rediculous! You are just asking for that snake to get out! That will not look good for the exotic reptile trade hobby. You should either go buy a propper set up or surrender your snake.
There are also plenty of case of boas asphyxiating there owners in there sleep. Which if that happenes that's the Keepers fault.

[pdomensis]

There are also plenty of case of boas asphyxiating there owners in there sleep.

Really? I haven't heard this before.

[CrotalusR#1]

Really? I haven't heard this before.

Last snake that I know of was an African rock. Killed 2 kids in there sleep.

Keepers fault.

[pdomensis]

But not a boa. Just checking. Thanks.

[CrotalusR#1]

I said boa didn't I??

I just told you what the last snake I know of that did that. There are a hand full of cases of boas doing the same. Look it up, I'm not going to reasurch and post the link for people. If your interested, look it up.

[pdomensis]

Thanks. I did in fact look it up and found some instances of people getting killed from larger pythons, but not from BCs. I found one case of a 4 yr old killed by what was described as a boa, but identification was uncertain. There was also one case of a death from salmonella carried by a boa constrictor.

If you had other information I'd be interested in it, but I think claiming "plenty" of cases of boa strangulation deaths, might be a bit of a stretch, and certainly not an idea I would proliferate.

I think the OPs husbandry really needs help, but not because it's a threat to the people, but because the snake is not being well tended.

cheers.

[CrotalusR#1]

I think the OPs husbandry really needs help, but not because it's a threat to the people, but because the snake is not being well tended.

I'm not saying the boa needs a new set up just because it's a potential threat.
I'm just stating the possibilities. The fact that it could happen (very unlikely) means that it should be treated like it's a possibility know what I mean?

We could all go on and on about what this person needs to difently. I was just giving one of the reasons, that could affect us all.

[Ace4me]

His previous owner said he did the same thing roaming wise.
As usual, people on forums that apparently know everything have to make a stupid deal over what I described that works for me and mine.
While you guys were posting all your incredulous put downs about how stupid I must be, Ace was under the covers with me apparently enjoying the massaging I give him. Every time I peeked under at him, he would quite obviously I might add, look over at me (you can see their eyes move watching like), and move his head even closer to my hand.
As for him escaping, not an option. How could he with no breaks in a wall, open windows, etc.? I mean, really. I am just not that ignorant to not fully appreciate the enclosure that our home is.
I recently had a very short video of him coming down the hall into my room and gliding right past my cat who simply watched him as he passed by. It is apparently true that they won't attack anything when not hungry as well as they have a built way of sizing up what they can get their jaws and mouth around and therefore won't mess with it.

Just because you haven't seen it happen, doesn't mean it isn't possible.

[FWK]

There is so much fail in this thread I'm not sure where to start... Ace4me, please take the advice of just about everyone who has posted here and put the snake back in an appropriate enclosure with proper security (hides, cover, vision breaks etc.) and thermal gradient. Allowing the snake to free roam, I assure you, is extremely stressful for the animal and will be detrimental to its health in many ways. Not to mention the risk of injury to the animal or escape.

CrotalusR#1, please, please check your facts before you post such inflammatory nonsense. To my knowledge there has been but one incident of a Boa killing a human in the history of this county, the keeper had the animal out to show a friend and the snake somehow got wrapped around the keepers neck. Odds are the keeper put it there and the snake squeezed in an attempt to keep from falling. It was a very large Boa, the local news reported it to be around nine feet and 25 pounds, it would dwarf the snake in the OP photo. The only other Boa related fatality ever reported in the U.S. is the salmonella infection pdomensis mentioned, that story is very strange. Supposedly the victim revived a salmonella-tainted blood transfusion and died as a result of septic shock. The donor of the blood kept snakes including a Boa and the hospital claimed the salmonella came from the Boa. Figure that one out. If you have information to back up your outlandish claims I too would be very interested. There are inherent dangers to working with any animal (not just snakes) but please do not exaggerate the risks or make outrageous claims that can not be backed up with facts.

[SnoopySnake]

As usual, people on forums that apparently know everything have to make a stupid deal over what I described that works for me and mine.

You came to an open forum to ask for advice and now you're mad because it's not what you want to hear. Not our problem. What happens when your boa gets big enough to think it can take your cat? This thread... Agh. Don't even know what to say.

[Ace4me]

There is so much fail in this thread I'm not sure where to start... Ace4me, please take the advice of just about everyone who has posted here and put the snake back in an appropriate enclosure with proper security (hides, cover, vision breaks etc.) and thermal gradient. Allowing the snake to free roam, I assure you, is extremely stressful for the animal and will be detrimental to its health in many ways. Not to mention the risk of injury to the animal or escape.

CrotalusR#1, please, please check your facts before you post such inflammatory nonsense. To my knowledge there has been but one incident of a Boa killing a human in the history of this county, the keeper had the animal out to show a friend and the snake somehow got wrapped around the keepers neck. Odds are the keeper put it there and the snake squeezed in an attempt to keep from falling. It was a very large Boa, the local news reported it to be around nine feet and 25 pounds, it would dwarf the snake in the OP photo. The only other Boa related fatality ever reported in the U.S. is the salmonella infection pdomensis mentioned, that story is very strange. Supposedly the victim revived a salmonella-tainted blood transfusion and died as a result of septic shock. The donor of the blood kept snakes including a Boa and the hospital claimed the salmonella came from the Boa. Figure that one out. If you have information to back up your outlandish claims I too would be very interested. There are inherent dangers to working with any animal (not just snakes) but please do not exaggerate the risks or make outrageous claims that can not be backed up with facts.


Thank you FWK, for somewhat getting my back I guess you would say.
When I bought Kratos, later renamed ACE, he came with a 100 or 150 gallon aquarium. But he was ALWAYS in the water. I am not saying that is wrong but it just didn't seem like a very "happy" existence for me to visit and watch him, not 24/7 no, but ALOT only to see him simply there.
True, these kinds of animals/reptiles/pets aren't meant to be or known for "happy" but I just likened it to getting a sweet kitten or puppy and then seeing it tossed outside for scratching or chained up to a pole once it's "cute" wore off. I also had to sell the aquarium because, well, just because.
Before choosing to let ACE be seemingly happy this way, I literally got on hands and knees thru the entire less than 1000 sf home much in the way someone would baby proof a home. I was able to block off/out only 3 ways he could hide and none of the 3 ways lead to outside. This place is sealed because I choose not to waste money on heating bills now that it is winter.
Since my original question (why does he literally WANT to be cold?!) hasn't technically been answered, I guess I will remove my awestruck, chewed out registration and find another way to get answered without putting myself out like this again.

[Ace4me]

You came to an open forum to ask for advice and now you're mad because it's not what you want to hear. Not our problem. What happens when your boa gets big enough to think it can take your cat? This thread... Agh. Don't even know what to say.


Are you going to tell me a 5 year old isn't fully grown.
I would be inclined to think maybe, maybe not. Unlike goldfish at least, their life time size is based on the room they have to grow in.

And don't flatter yourself thinking I am "mad". That couldn't be further from the truth.:no:

And BTW, there are 3 very different sized cats and one very big caged rabbit and he looks at them all and slithers away.

[shaunyboy]

There is so much fail in this thread I'm not sure where to start... Ace4me, please take the advice of just about everyone who has posted here and put the snake back in an appropriate enclosure with proper security (hides, cover, vision breaks etc.) and thermal gradient. Allowing the snake to free roam, I assure you, is extremely stressful for the animal and will be detrimental to its health in many ways. Not to mention the risk of injury to the animal or escape.

CrotalusR#1, please, please check your facts before you post such inflammatory nonsense. To my knowledge there has been but one incident of a Boa killing a human in the history of this county, the keeper had the animal out to show a friend and the snake somehow got wrapped around the keepers neck. Odds are the keeper put it there and the snake squeezed in an attempt to keep from falling. It was a very large Boa, the local news reported it to be around nine feet and 25 pounds, it would dwarf the snake in the OP photo. The only other Boa related fatality ever reported in the U.S. is the salmonella infection pdomensis mentioned, that story is very strange. Supposedly the victim revived a salmonella-tainted blood transfusion and died as a result of septic shock. The donor of the blood kept snakes including a Boa and the hospital claimed the salmonella came from the Boa. Figure that one out. If you have information to back up your outlandish claims I too would be very interested. There are inherent dangers to working with any animal (not just snakes) but please do not exaggerate the risks or make outrageous claims that can not be backed up with facts.

^^^^^
thanks,you just saved me a lot of writing .....

i agree with you 100% mate


cheers shaun

[shaunyboy]

for the record.....

i think we have a troll folks :yes:


cheers shaun

P.S. Wheres Wayne when we need him ? (anyone know why Wayne's not been on for a while ? )

[SnoopySnake]

Thank you FWK, for somewhat getting my back I guess you would say.
When I bought Kratos, later renamed ACE, he came with a 100 or 150 gallon aquarium. But he was ALWAYS in the water. I am not saying that is wrong but it just didn't seem like a very "happy" existence for me to visit and watch him, not 24/7 no, but ALOT only to see him simply there.

Have you considered maybe he soaks like that because his humidity wasn't/isn't high enough? Boas need around 50-60% humidity and the average home doesn't have half that.

[CrotalusR#1]

for the record.....

i think we have a troll folks :yes:


cheers shaun

P.S. Wheres Wayne when we need him ? (anyone know why Wayne's not been on for a while ? )

Who's the troll?

[Minkness]

OP is the troll

Well...at least when the snake gets bigger it'll have enough food for a year with the cats and rabbit being around.

[SSSSnakes]

P.S. Wheres Wayne when we need him ? (anyone know why Wayne's not been on for a while ? )

I think I heard he was killed by his Boa. LOL That would make him the second reported case in the US.

If the hobbyist are going to exaggerate the facts, God help us what the media will do.

[Ace4me]

Have you considered maybe he soaks like that because his humidity wasn't/isn't high enough? Boas need around 50-60% humidity and the average home doesn't have half that.

No, because quite honestly, I've never understood humidity in the first place.
I do know, however, that he is potty trained :yes:! He will enjoy wandering all over the house for several hours and then I put him in the water all warmed up and instant poop! I then change it of course.
I guess you'll can slam my "husbandry" all you desire but at least he has a great home and is truly loved (I certainly never thought I could seriously LOVE a snake).

[Ace4me]

OP is the troll

Well...at least when the snake gets bigger it'll have enough food for a year with the cats and rabbit being around.

Not hardly. And I am likely old enough to be your mother so you should really respect your elders. :yes:

[SSSSnakes]

Not hardly. And I am likely old enough to be your mother so you should really respect your elders. :yes:

Respect is something that is earned, not given because of age. What I have seen you post here, you deserve no respect form the reptile community. The only thing I can see you post being is a joke on what not to do with your snake.

[CrotalusR#1]

I think I heard he was killed by his Boa. LOL That would make him the second reported case in the US.

If the hobbyist are going to exaggerate the facts, God help us what the media will do.

My whole point is if it happened once it could happen again.
Like I said it's super unlikely, but if it did, do to this persons negligence it could effect us all. Not sure why you people are all worked up.
I was just stating a possibility and that possibility has happened before and didn't go unnoticed. It's important that people realize that something as simple as there boa escaping and being found and them being reported to the news can and will effect is all.

You guys need to calm down and not jump on every little thing like it's the end of the world, it really makes forums look bad.

Seems like the last handful of threads have just been a bunch of **** measuring contests

[Minkness]

Respect is something that is earned, not given because of age. What I have seen you post here, you deserve no respect form the reptile community. The only thing I can see you post being is a joke on what not to do with your snake.


Nicely said =)

And OP, if you don't even understand 'the humidity thing' it amazes me you still have a snake.

If you don't like what this community has to say about your husbandry or you seriously feel that what you're doing is fine, but love your animal, take it to a reptile vet and find out what's wrong with him.'liking' cold is not in any reptile's nature so there may actually be something wrong. And if you LOVE him like you claim, you should fix whatever it is he needs to make sure he's as healthy as he is happy.

Kids are perfectly happy eating junk food and staying out past their bed times, but that doesn't make it HEALTHY.

And if you go to another forum with this same question, don't be butt hurt if you get the same responses. Forums are notoriously over run with us fanatics, so few will agree with your views or pat you on the back and say "cool, that's ok".


You're doing wrong by your pets, hard truth hurts sometimes, but that doesn't make it any less true.

And I mean all your pets. Won't surprise me one bit if one of your cats or rabbit go missing...or that your snake is found wounded or dead if the cat manages to get the upper hand in that battle. Maybe not tomorrow, maybe not next month....but eventually, it's bound to happen.

Love him all you like, but sadly, love is not enough to fix your issues.

P.s. As for the troll comment...Trolls generally try to piss people off...you're just ignorant and stuborn.

[CrotalusR#1]

I think I heard he was killed by his Boa. LOL That would make him the second reported case in the US.

If the hobbyist are going to exaggerate the facts, God help us what the media will do.

I have said it like 5 times now, it's really unlikely and almost certainly won't happen but that's just not the point.

The point is that if it could happen and can be Avoided than avoid it, know what I mean?

And like I said if it did happen, it would affect us all.

You make it sound like I'm pro media and against large snakes. You couldn't be more wrong.

[Ace4me]

Respect is something that is earned, not given because of age. What I have seen you post here, you deserve no respect form the reptile community. The only thing I can see you post being is a joke on what not to do with your snake.

Well, you can kiss my snake loving assssssssssssssss! I no longer care what your rude opinion is.

[Ace4me]

P.s. As for the troll comment...Trolls generally try to piss people off...you're just ignorant and stuborn.


I never made a troll comment, I simply refuted the fact that I am not one.
I came here with a serious question and still haven't gotten an admission that it "could" be a possibility, that he likes some cold.

If he was so bad off, he wouldn't look as good as he does unlike some of the photo's of others I have seen posted on the forums, especially that poor yellow, scrawny thing somewhere in here.

If I were stubborn, I wouldn't have taken the very small bit of advice, looked up info about humidity, changed the closet around to accommodate the same arrangement and items his aquarium had, etc.
He has eaten anything from medium to large frozen thawed mice to large rats frozen thawed 33 for the year and shed twice.
No mouth rot, no mites, no resp infects, not skinny, etc. I'd say I have done him damn well as a first time owner.
And if he was so deprived and miserable out roaming around, why, with the newly improved closet home is he crawling all over the closed door wanting out??? Don't answer that.

And have a great Christmas.

[Minkness]

Pift...someone else made the troll comment, though I stick by what I said. And, as someone else stated, you just don't like what we have to say about your question. People have given you serious answers. What you do with them is on you.

As for the question you asked and don't want answered....all snakes want out...regardless of the confinement. It's why it's such a serious topic of how to keep snakes IN their encloses, especially if they are going from a large enclosure to a small one, and some that go from small to large take a while to get used to the larger space as well.

Why even come on here and ask questions if you aren't going to 'seriously' take the advice? You could have simply asked "Do some snakes just like it cold?" But you didn't. You asked about your snake and exposed your husbandry to a community of enthusiasts that know that what you are doing is not ok and then tell you so. I may be wrong, but I don't believe anyone on this forum is going to stand by you or feel bad for your situation when it goes wrong, though we will all feel bad for the animals.

[shaunyboy]

Who's the troll?

the op mate,he/she is either a troll or has the worst attitude of any keeper ive ever come across



also i wasn't being cheeky about you,but.....

if you make claims like that,imo you can't just say oh i can't be arsed to look for links to back up what i'm saying,so go do it yourselves...

if you make bold or factual claims about reptiles or our hobby,then imo it's a MUST that factual proof must be provided by who ever is making the statement....

or it's merely an opinion or hear say....

imo facts are required even more if it's something detrimental to our hobby

i mean you no offence mate

all the best,shaun

[shaunyboy]

Not hardly. And I am likely old enough to be your mother so you should really respect your elders. :yes:

i'm a father of 4 and grandfather of 5,that does NOT give me automatic respect,respect has to be earned in this life

feck all that respect your elders crap there's some well nasty old people out there,so if they don't earn it,it's simple they don't get any...

that's just my way of doing things,now that i think about it,my whole country thinks this way,in Scotland respect is earned never just given

i give everyone the same fair chance,also i treat people how they treat me (look at my signature)


i wish you a merry xmas and a happy healthy new year

All the best,Shaun:)

P.S. If you won't take credible advice,then this thread has ran it's course imo

[shaunyboy]

Thank you FWK, for somewhat getting my back I guess you would say.
When I bought Kratos, later renamed ACE, he came with a 100 or 150 gallon aquarium. But he was ALWAYS in the water. I am not saying that is wrong but it just didn't seem like a very "happy" existence for me to visit and watch him, not 24/7 no, but ALOT only to see him simply there.
True, these kinds of animals/reptiles/pets aren't meant to be or known for "happy" but I just likened it to getting a sweet kitten or puppy and then seeing it tossed outside for scratching or chained up to a pole once it's "cute" wore off. I also had to sell the aquarium because, well, just because.
Before choosing to let ACE be seemingly happy this way, I literally got on hands and knees thru the entire less than 1000 sf home much in the way someone would baby proof a home. I was able to block off/out only 3 ways he could hide and none of the 3 ways lead to outside. This place is sealed because I choose not to waste money on heating bills now that it is winter.
Since my original question (why does he literally WANT to be cold?!) hasn't technically been answered, I guess I will remove my awestruck, chewed out registration and find another way to get answered without putting myself out like this again.

no matter how many decent keepers you ask.....


they will all tell you the same...

BUY A PROPER ENCLOSURE AND EQUIPMENT FOR YOUR BOA


cheers shaun

[shaunyboy]

I think I heard he was killed by his Boa. LOL That would make him the second reported case in the US.

If the hobbyist are going to exaggerate the facts, God help us what the media will do.

^^^^^^:shocked::laugh::laugh::laugh:


cheers shaun :D

[marvelfreak]

I can tell you why when you kept it in the cage it came with it was always in the water. You are using a heat lamp which dries up the humidity. I Found UTH under tank heaters or heat pads or heat tape work the best. They give it belly heat which helps them digest and doesn't dry the humidity up as fast as a heat lamp.

As far as letting him free roam. Is it really worth the risk to your cats or him. What if one day he does go after one of your cats. You could end up with a dead cat or snake or both. Just because it's working now doesn't mean it's the proper or safes way of caring for him. I mean if you truly love your snake and cats don't you want to give them the best care and keep them safe?

[SSSSnakes]

Well, you can kiss my snake loving assssssssssssssss! I no longer care what your rude opinion is.

With this type of trash mouth, uncalled for response, it's no wonder no one will respect you. Have a nice day.

[IW17]

First, understand that this is a public forum. You came on here asking questions, so you can't be upset because people don't answer the way you want them to. Second, and I say this as nicely as possible, both your husbandry and your information about snakes is way off base. Your snake used it's water bowl so often either because it was stressed or supplementing for low humidity. Snakes don't size up there prey. I've seen on many occasions snakes take more than they can handle and after hours of trying, simply give up. Also, snakes do not grow/live based on the size of there enclosure /surroundings. It's a combination of food intake and genetics.

You should seriously consider listening to the advice given. Most of the negative responses would have been avoided if use simply admitted that you made a mistake and we're fixing the problem. Everyone on here at one time has made mistakes in husbandry due to bad information. I myself look back at the way I kept snakes years ago and wonder how I managed to maintain any level of decent health. I made mistakes, plain and simple. I never got down on myself about it because once I was educated, I immediately changed everything to ensure the proper environment for both my snakes and the living things around them.

Bottom line, nothing wrong with mistakes. It's how we learn. But it's our responsibility as keepers of living things, to learn from our mistakes and not repeat them. Now if you have any questions about your boas care, there are many knowledgeable keepers on her who would be more than will to help you get all the info you need. If you would like pm me and I can help you out as well.

[CrotalusR#1]

the op mate,he/she is either a troll or has the worst attitude of any keeper ive ever come across



also i wasn't being cheeky about you,but.....

if you make claims like that,imo you can't just say oh i can't be arsed to look for links to back up what i'm saying,so go do it yourselves...



imo facts are required even more if it's something detrimental to our hobby

i mean you no offence mate

all the best,shaun


I totally agree with what your saying. The reason I was not willing to go find the links to the couple of cases involving boas that I read a while back was because of the simply ignorant attitude of pdomensis, who responded to what I said so I didn't feel like I needed to prove myself write or any one els for that matter, know what I mean? The attitude of some on this forum is just plane moronic.

Like I said it seems like some people on this forum try to make every thing a **** measuring contest lol.

Merry Christmas shaunyboy
Best regards, Nathan!

[pdomensis]

I totally agree with what your saying. The reason I was not willing to go find the links to the couple of cases involving boas that I read a while back was because of the simply ignorant attitude of pdomensis, who responded to what I said so I didn't feel like I needed to prove myself write or any one els for that matter, know what I mean? The attitude of some on this forum is just plane moronic.

Like I said it seems like some people on this forum try to make every thing a **** measuring contest lol.

Merry Christmas shaunyboy
Best regards, Nathan!

I think if you look back at my post you'll see there wasn't anything "simply ignorant" about it. You made a claim which I found interesting and asked for more info. As it turns out your claim was false.

[CrotalusR#1]

But not a boa. Just checking. Thanks.

This is just a 'that's what I thought' comment when in actuality
Just cas you didn't find these incidents doesn't mean they didn't happen.

This isn't that day to waste time arguing write?

Merry Christams

Regards
Nathan.

[SSSSnakes]

This is just a 'that's what I thought' comment when in actuality
Just cas you didn't find these incidents doesn't mean they didn't happen.

This isn't that day to waste time arguing write?

Merry Christams

Regards
Nathan.

You can end this disagreement Nathan, just post the links to all the boa attacks that have killed people.

[FWK]

This is just a 'that's what I thought' comment when in actuality
Just cas you didn't find these incidents doesn't mean they didn't happen.


You are becoming irritating. As they say, "put up or shut up." Provide links to the incidents you are so sure have happened but we can not find or cease and desist.

[CrotalusR#1]

I will get the name of the book that I read a couple accounts of this happening and the others can simply be found on the internet and one of those has already be talked about on this damn forum.

I will post the name of the booK when I can.
Until then there's really nothing to be said, as in arguing.


FWK, obviously you couldn't get it that in my last reply that I am done arguing on this thread. I tried ending it in a polite way, so why you feel the need to continue it on, is beyond me.

I mean it's Christmas and we are auguring about snakes and what was said, I means really dose that just not sound so stupid???

So again FWK, I am done on this thread, it is no long worth anyone's time so let's drop it.

[Minkness]

Honestly everyone should stop with boa vs python thing. Move on and let it be.

Why do things on here have to turn into an attack? Let it GO.

[SSSSnakes]

Honestly everyone should stop with boa vs python thing. Move on and let it be.

Why do things on here have to turn into an attack? Let it GO.

Not everything is an attack. When someone post opinion and states it as fact, and is then asked to prove where the statement came from, is not an attack. We are to be posting provable facts here and not old wives tales.

[Minkness]

Then make another thread about it instead of hikacking someone else's.

Besides, if you know the truth, then why is proof so important anyway?

I'm not just talking about this thread either. I've seen it in other threads as well.

It's just so frustrating when I go to read or reply to a thread that isn't even about what it was in the first place.

[pdomensis]

I honestly wasn't trying to stir up anything. I'm relatively new to snakes and wasnt aware of any boa related deaths, just large pythons. If there are incidents, I'd like to hear about it so I have my facts straight when people ask or make accusations.

[Minkness]

Which is totally cool! I'm just saying to make a new thread for it. I personally didn't know the difference between bythons or boas as I'm a colubrid kinda person.

So maybe it's a good idea to start a new thread about their differences and the discussion about which one causes more human/pet deaths and such.

That way this thread (or any thread really) can stay on topic.

=)

[SSSSnakes]

If misinformation is not corrected in the thread that it is in, then that misinformation is considered as fact, and that misinformation is passed on. That is why it is needed to be corrected at the time it appears.

This so called hijacking a thread is stupid. There is no rules saying a thread is only to be discussed on the topic posted. The threads go where they go and should be discussed with provable fact and not opinions. If you which to make you opinion known, then expect others to disagree with you.

[Minkness]

Never said it was a rule, just irritating. And if info is wrong, then state it, link to the correct info, and move on, don't turn it into a silly debate.

That being said, I'm done with this. Some just want to bicker and the OP has nothing to say or has moved on.

This thread is over with I believe.

Toodles!

[SSSSnakes]

And if info is wrong, then state it, link to the correct info, and move on, don't turn it into a silly debate.

Toodles!

THE PERSON CHALLENGING THE CORRECTNESS OF THE INFO, IS NOT THE ONE THAT HAS TO PROVE THE STATEMENT TO BE TRUE. Here we have people posting incorrect info and refusing to admit it is their opinion and not fact, by not backing up the statement. This is not the first time this person has done this. This is how misinformation gets passed on as fact. If the debating bothers anyone, then they can stop reading the thread. Some people on here are just trying to get to the truth.

[CrotalusR#1]

I honestly wasn't trying to stir up anything. I'm relatively new to snakes and wasnt aware of any boa related deaths, just large pythons. If there are incidents, I'd like to hear about it so I have my facts straight when people ask or make accusations.

The incidents I'm referring to are in a book and the name is slipped my mine. I'm in SoCal on vacation. When I get back I can either take pictures or something so that way you can read about them... Pretty interesting what there saying happened... They happened while the owners where asleep to.

[Obsidian_Dragon]

And if he was so deprived and miserable out roaming around, why, with the newly improved closet home is he crawling all over the closed door wanting out??? Don't answer that.

I'm gonna answer it anyway. Snakes are always trying to escape their enclosure. It's just what they DO.

I'm no snake mind reader, but I'd guess: they're opportunistic eaters and there's possible opportunities to eat someplace-not-there, so they keep trying. They're not exactly brilliant animals who realize futility or the things we do for their own good.

I love my scale children, but I don't see why it's so hard for some people to see that these animals are not dogs/cats.

[marvelfreak]

For the record Anaconda are boas so i am sure there have been a few death by boas.

[SSSSnakes]

For the record Anaconda are boas so i am sure there have been a few death by boas.

They are in the same family but we are not talking about the same snake. The snake in question is Constrictor constrictor and not Eunectes murinus.

[Minkness]

Anacondas are boas? O_O

Woah.....mind....blown....

[CrotalusR#1]

This is not the first time this person has done this.

It's not my opinion first of all.

So let's here where I have done this before unless this is just your opinion you need to show us write?? According to you, you do. So do it. Let's see it SSSSnakes.

[marvelfreak]

Here are are the facts. http://www.rexano.org/Statistics/Constrictor_Captive_Snake_Fatality.pdf


This shows all recorded death by large constrictors. Only one by a Boa Constrictor and it says under the one chart that some news stations mislabeled the snake.

[CrotalusR#1]

Here are are the facts. http://www.rexano.org/Statistics/Constrictor_Captive_Snake_Fatality.pdf


This shows all recorded death by large constrictors. Only one by a Boa Constrictor and it says under the one chart that some news stations mislabeled the snake.

That's only for the USA write?

[marvelfreak]

That's only for the USA write?
Yeah it the only thing i could fine.

[CrotalusR#1]

Yeah it the only thing i could fine.

Cool page tho. I know 2 of the three that are talked in this book aren't in the USA. The other is I'm the USA and has Ben talked about in this thread.


This is not the first time this person has done this.

So let's here where I have done this before unless this is just your opinion you need to show us write?? According to you, you do. So do it. Let's see it SSSSnakes.

[SSSSnakes]

It's not my opinion first of all.

So let's here where I have done this before unless this is just your opinion you need to show us write?? According to you, you do. So do it. Let's see it SSSSnakes.

When you were identifying a snake from another country you stated that you were 100% correct what the snake was. When asked to prove it you said, I have seen many of them and I am correct. Correct or not you did not prove anything. Saying a snake looks like a picture is not Identifying a snake. They go by scale counts and location where the snake was found.

The thread is in general discussions, titled, Help identifying a snake

[CrotalusR#1]

When you were identifying a snake from another country you stated that you were 100% correct what the snake was. When asked to prove it you said, I have seen many of them and I am correct. Correct or not you did not prove anything. Saying a snake looks like a picture is not Identifying a snake. They go by scale counts and location where the snake was found.

The thread is in general discussions, titled, Help identifying a snake

That's like showing a picture of a damn ball python and saying well prove it or it's not a ball python.. It was just completely obvious and another member agreed with exactly what I was saying and said the same thing.... That's exactly what it was there's no reason for me to explain it.

This is what another member said.
I totally agree. After 30 years and having seen thousands of these, my best guess is a obsoleta. Its just an experience thing.

You just did what you have accused me of doing!

Thanks for unknowingly using your self as an example for what you think I did.


At this point this should just stop, is it worth wasting any more time on this thread? Not really so can we just drop it's and move on?

[FWK]

Here are are the facts. http://www.rexano.org/Statistics/Constrictor_Captive_Snake_Fatality.pdf


This shows all recorded death by large constrictors. Only one by a Boa Constrictor and it says under the one chart that some news stations mislabeled the snake.

This list is incomplete, only covering 1990-2012. I'm pretty sure the total number for the US is still 17 including the highly suspect salmonella case and another incident where the keeper suffered a heart attack while dealing with a large Retic. The number for North America is 23, the incident with the two boys CrotulasR#1 mentioned occurred in Canada.

[CrotalusR#1]

I'm trying to find an overall statistic
Not one just basses out of the USA.

[SSSSnakes]

That's like showing a picture of a damn ball python and saying well prove it or it's not a ball python.. It was just completely obvious and another member agreed with exactly what I was saying and said the same thing.... That's exactly what it was there's no reason for me to explain it.

This is what another member said.


You just did what you have accused me of doing!

Thanks for unknowingly using your self as an example for what you think I did.


At this point this should just stop, is it worth wasting any more time on this thread? Not really so can we just drop it's and move on?

You still have not proven that that snake is what you said it was. Just because you say it is and someone else agrees with you does not make it a fact. You had to make sure that people Googled the exact same picture as you, because other pictures may prove you wrong.

[Minkness]

You're just being an antagonizor now. =/

[SSSSnakes]

This list is incomplete, only covering 1990-2012. I'm pretty sure the total number for the US is still 17 including the highly suspect salmonella case and another incident where the keeper suffered a heart attack while dealing with a large Retic. The number for North America is 23, the incident with the two boys CrotulasR#1 mentioned occurred in Canada.

In this thread we are talking about Constrictor constrictor and not just any large snake. There is no question that many large snakes have killed people over the years. But here we are talking about a Boa constrictor that the lady is letting run loose in her house.

[SSSSnakes]

Never said it was a rule, just irritating. And if info is wrong, then state it, link to the correct info, and move on, don't turn it into a silly debate.

That being said, I'm done with this. Some just want to bicker and the OP has nothing to say or has moved on.

This thread is over with I believe.

Toodles!

You're just being an antagonizor now. =/

If you are done with this thread, then why do you keep checking it and posting on it? You need to stop calling others names. Be polite when you post.

[Minkness]

Because I'm hoping To see some sense I suppose.

And as far as being 'polite' I suggest you take your own advice on that one.

[SSSSnakes]

Because I'm hoping To see some sense I suppose.

And as far as being 'polite' I suggest you take your own advice on that one.

Show me where I have not been polite, where I have called some one names.

[CrotalusR#1]

You still have not proven that that snake is what you said it was. Just because you say it is and someone else agrees with you does not make it a fact. You had to make sure that people Googled the exact same picture as you, because other pictures may prove you wrong.


Like I said it's a matter of Experience, I'm sure there are species that you know very well where it takes a quick glance to see exactly what it is. It's hard to point out every detail that makes it what it is because of the slight variations some ones gunna do a google images search and say well bla bla... But this debate isn't about that thread so we'll just leave it at that.

As far as this thread we are talking about. I will say I should have said maybe a few instead of plenty.. In my mined when I said plenty I was thinking 1 or 2 cases is plenty to show that it can and dose happen. So that is my bad.
Should have used the word few or couple vs plenty.

Plenty as in a couple being plenty. Know what I mean?

[Minkness]

Politeness isn't limited to calling someone names. And, for the record, I said you were being a certain way, not that you are that way.

Hounding someone for information and proof, and trying to make them look like an idiot is rude, and those actions do not require you to call names, but simply to insinuate that they are either ignorant or a liar, and insinuation is sometimes just as bad as flat out calling someone those things directly.

Note: not saying anyone are the things I mentioned, just used them for examples.

[SSSSnakes]

Like I said it's a matter of Experience, I'm sure there are species that you know very well where it takes a quick glance to see exactly what it is. It's hard to point out every detail that makes it what it is because of the slight variations some ones gunna do a google images search and say well bla bla... But this debate isn't about that thread so we'll just leave it at that.

As far as this thread we are talking about. I will say I should have said maybe a few instead of plenty.. In my mined when I said plenty I was thinking 1 or 2 cases is plenty to show that it can and dose happen. So that is my bad.
Should have used the word few or couple vs plenty.

Plenty as in a couple being plenty. Know what I mean?

Agreed. That was a nice way to settle this debate.

[SSSSnakes]

Politeness isn't limited to calling someone names. And, for the record, I said you were being a certain way, not that you are that way.

Hounding someone for information and proof, and trying to make them look like an idiot is rude, and those actions do not require you to call names, but simply to insinuate that they are either ignorant or a liar, and insinuation is sometimes just as bad as flat out calling someone those things directly.

Asking for proof is not being rude. Wanting to search for the truth through facts is educating yourself and others. People tend to get defensive when they can not prove their point.

[Minkness]

Asking and demanding are different things and as I read through this it felt far more demanding than a polite "hey, where did you read that? I'd like to look into that" vs "that's not true, show me".

[CrotalusR#1]

Asking for proof is not being rude. Wanting to search for the truth through facts is educating yourself and others. People tend to get defensive when they can not prove their point.


God damn you just won't give it up! Why you feel the need to sit here an jaw jack is beyond me! I have tried so many times now to end this stupid pointless discussion (politely) and you just keep starting it back up. I just ****ing said that I should have used a different word than plenty like a couple and that I apologized and you just need to keep going and going. To me 1 or 2 cases is 'plenty' reason to show that it can happen.

[SSSSnakes]

Asking and demanding are different things and as I read through this it felt far more demanding than a polite "hey, where did you read that? I'd like to look into that" vs "that's not true, show me".

All I HAVE DONE IS ASKED FOR FACTS AND PROOF.

God damn you just won't give it up! Why you feel the need to sit here an jaw jack is beyond me! I have tried so many times now to end this stupid pointless discussion (politely) and you just keep starting it back up. I just ****ing said that I should have used a different word than plenty like a couple and that I apologized and you just need to keep going and going. To me 1 or 2 cases is 'plenty' reason to show that it can happen.

I agreed with you and now you start with the profanity. By forum rules your post should be removed. Adding **** to imply profanity is still against the rules.

[CrotalusR#1]

I did not ad ***... I used the word and it corrected it on it's own.

[Flybit]

omg my head hurts from slamming it against my computer...

[marvelfreak]

This list is incomplete, only covering 1990-2012. I'm pretty sure the total number for the US is still 17 including the highly suspect salmonella case and another incident where the keeper suffered a heart attack while dealing with a large Retic. The number for North America is 23, the incident with the two boys CrotulasR#1 mentioned occurred in Canada.
The list only has actually proven death cause physically by large constrictors.

The only way a boa could give someone salmonella is if they didn't properly clean their hands after handling it and said animal was keep in poor filthy living condition. So death by salmonella isn't really the constrictors fault but humans for not being clean.


Your snakes and their salmonella ? Pet-Snakes.com (http://pet-snakes.com/snakes-salmonella)

Salmonella, Feeder Rodents, and Pet Reptiles and Amphibians – Tips You Should Know to Prevent Infection (http://www.fda.gov/AnimalVeterinary/ResourcesforYou/AnimalHealthLiteracy/ucm344319.htm)

CDC Features - Reptiles, Amphibians, and Salmonella (http://www.cdc.gov/Features/SalmonellaFrogTurtle/)

CDC - Diagnosis and Treatment - Salmonella (http://www.cdc.gov/salmonella/general/diagnosis.html)

[FWK]

The list only has actually proven death cause physically by large constrictors.

The only way a boa could give someone salmonella is if they didn't properly clean their hands after handling it and said animal was keep in poor filthy living condition. So death by salmonella isn't really the constrictors fault but humans for not being clean.

The list only covers 1990-2012, there are well documented deaths between 1978 and 1989 as well. Every death on that list was the fault of the humans involved and entirely avoidable. The salmonella case, as I said, was and is highly suspect, most likely the hospitals error and had nothing to do with the snake.

In this thread we are talking about Constrictor constrictor and not just any large snake. There is no question that many large snakes have killed people over the years. But here we are talking about a Boa constrictor that the lady is letting run loose in her house.

I am very much aware of the topics at hand.

I agreed with you and now you start with the profanity. By forum rules your post should be removed. Adding **** to imply profanity is still against the rules.

You are often calling for threads to be shut down or posts to be removed for what you believe to be forum rules infections. Repeatedly attempting to silence those who disagree with you is just as transparent as becoming defensive because you don't have your facts straight.

omg my head hurts from slamming it against my computer...

You probably shouldn't do that.

[CrotalusR#1]

The list only covers 1990-2012, there are well documented deaths between 1978 and 1989 as well. Every death on that list was the fault of the humans involved and entirely avoidable. The salmonella case, as I said, was and is highly suspect, most likely the hospitals error and had nothing to do with the snake.



I am very much aware of the topics at hand.



You are often calling for threads to be shut down or posts to be removed for what you believe to be forum rules infections. Repeatedly attempting to silence those who disagree with you is just as transparent as becoming defensive because you don't have your facts straight.



You probably shouldn't do that.


Very well spoken!

[SSSSnakes]

You are often calling for threads to be shut down or posts to be removed for what you believe to be forum rules infections. Repeatedly attempting to silence those who disagree with you is just as transparent as becoming defensive because you don't have your facts straight.


Why have forum rules if the mods are not going to enforce them. If religion is not allowed to be discussed, then the thread should be stopped when religion is brought into it and needs to be discussed to fairly debate the subject. There are children on here, so when profanity in any form is used, the user should be warned and the thread edited. Please show me when I have ever not had my facts straight, or did not provide where my information came from.

[FWK]

I did not suggest that you did not have your facts straight, I only used your own words as an analogy to demonstrate my point.

People tend to get defensive when they can not prove their point.

As such. I expected you'd get that but instead you became defensive. Posting in all bold is about as obnoxious as all caps. I feel like you are yelling at me. Perhaps if you use all caps, bold text and continue to insist on getting the last word you will drown the rest of us out and everyone will agree with you. Worth a try I'm sure, there are ways to silence people other than attempting to force your interpretations of the rules on the them yes? The strange thing is we seem to be in agreement on the major issues here, the care of the Boa in question and the risk (or lack thereof) it poses to the humans it comes into contact with. Yet you insist on goading anyone who posts here. Not that your back and forth with CrotalusR#1 and the others has not been at least, I'm sure, mildly entertaining.

[SSSSnakes]

I did not suggest that you did not have your facts straight, I only used your own words as an analogy to demonstrate my point.



As such. I expected you'd get that but instead you became defensive. Posting in all bold is about as obnoxious as all caps. I feel like you are yelling at me. Perhaps if you use all caps, bold text and continue to insist on getting the last word you will drown the rest of us out and everyone will agree with you. Worth a try I'm sure, there are ways to silence people other than attempting to force your interpretations of the rules on the them yes? The strange thing is we seem to be in agreement on the major issues here, the care of the Boa in question and the risk (or lack thereof) it poses to the humans it comes into contact with. Yet you insist on goading anyone who posts here. Not that your back and forth with CrotalusR#1 and the others has not been at least, I'm sure, mildly entertaining.

Again, people trying to interpret what I do. I posted in bold to make it easier for everyone to see the response from the original post. It had nothing to do with being defensive, just trying to be creative.