Man dies from snake bite...

[Georgia]

A good man passed away. Even if you disagree with the snake handling practice...keep it to yourself and dont be disrespectful.

Pastor died at Harlan County church (http://www.wkyt.com/wymt/home/headlines/Harlan-County-death-investigation-284258881.html?device=phone&c=y)

[Mikoh4792]

You can't post a controversial topic on a public forum and tell people to keep it to themselves. The whole point of a forum is open inquiry and discussion.

That being said, I disagree with the snake handling practice.

[CrotalusR#1]

Re: Man dies from snake bite...
You can't post a controversial topic on a public forum and tell people to keep it to themselves. The whole point of a forum is open inquiry and discussion.

That being said, I disagree with the snake handling practice.

That's true about this being a forum but that being said doesn't mean you need to challenge it and do exactly what Georgia asked us not to do, and this is probably not the topic to do what you did Mikoh4792.
I agree that a forum is a place for Debates but like I said this was probably not the thread to do it on.

Sad to see a fellow hot keeper go, but I guess it's the risk we as hot keepers take.
Best regards
Nathan.

[Mikoh4792]

That's true about this being a forum but that being said doesn't mean you need to challenge it and do exactly what Georgia asked us not to do, and this is probably not the topic to do what you did Mikoh4792.
I agree that a forum is a place for Debates but like I said this was probably not the thread to do it on.

Sad to see a fellow hot keeper go, but I guess it's the risk we as hot keepers take.
Best regards
Nathan.

I think it's exactly the topic to do it on. There have been discussions about these free handling church members on this forum before, this isn't new. And as I said before, don't come on to a public forum and tell people to keep their opinions to themselves. It's no different to youtube commenters that leave controversial posts and wonder why they get people leaving contemptuous comments.

[Georgia]

The problem with disrespecting the man on THIS thread is that IT DISRESPECTS THE DEAD. Which is. a very bad thing to do. And all around wrong.

[Georgia]

And the "snake handling" in this case is a religious practice. Therefore it is quite different circumstances.

[Mikoh4792]

The problem with disrespecting the man on THIS thread is that IT DISRESPECTS THE DEAD. Which is. a very bad thing to do. And all around wrong.

I disrespect no one by saying I disagree with the practice. If someone dies from speeding in a car, I do not disrespect the diseased by saying he shouldn't have sped. Nobody has the right to post it on a public forum which I am apart of and tell me to keep it to myself.

And the "snake handling" in this case is a religious practice. Therefore it is quite different circumstances.

Risky and dangerous behavior that negatively affects the image of other reptile keepers is not excused from criticism just because it is associated with religion.

[marvelfreak]

It always a sad thing when anyone or thing dies. Sorry for the loss.

Religion is no excuse for bad handling practices. Plus talking about religion is against Forum rules.

[EL Ziggy]

He knew the risks and paid the price with his life. His chose to live his life the way he wanted to and died doing what he loved. Was it wise? I'd say not but to each his own. RIP.

[Georgia]

It always a sad thing when anyone or thing dies. Sorry for the loss.

Religion is no excuse for bad handling practices. Plus talking about religion is against Forum rules.

You know that snake handling in that context is part of the snake hobby historically. So to deny the fact is to also deny herp keeping history.

[marvelfreak]

You know that snake handling in that context is part of the snake hobby historically. So to deny the fact is to also deny herp keeping history.
Yes it is history. Bad history! Right under bad practices on how not to handle venomous snakes and animal cruelty.
Have you ever seen one of these serves? I have damn idiot walking around the church preaching. Waving the snake around just feet from other people and children. Not only is it bad handling practice, you also have child endangerment, animal cruelty.

Stupidity is stupidity no matter if it history or not. Some history shouldn't be repeated.

[SSSSnakes]

It always a sad thing when anyone or thing dies. Sorry for the loss.

Religion is no excuse for bad handling practices. Plus talking about religion is against Forum rules.

Thank you. This topic can't be discussed properly, without getting into a religious debate. Free handling HOT snakes is a misinterpretation of the Bible. No where in the Bibles does it say it is OK to dangerously handle HOT snakes.

[CosmicOwl]

It's not disrespectful to find Pentecostal snake handling to be dangerous and reckless. Much like it's not disrespectful to think it's child endangerment for Christian parents to take their sick kid to a faith healer instead of a doctor.

[SSSSnakes]

Much like it's not disrespectful to think it's child endangerment for Christian parents to take their sick kid to a faith healer instead of a doctor.

This statement is against forum rules and has no relevance to this thread.

[Mikoh4792]

It's not disrespectful to find Pentecostal snake handling to be dangerous and reckless. Much like it's not disrespectful to think it's child endangerment for Christian parents to take their sick kid to a faith healer instead of a doctor.

This statement is against forum rules and has no relevance to this thread.

Against forum rules, yes. But I think the analogy is proper.

[SSSSnakes]

Against forum rules, yes. But I think the analogy is proper.

This is a statement about FAITH and the lack of it. Not to be discussed here, it is her opinion.

[CosmicOwl]

This statement is against forum rules and has no relevance to this thread.

I'm not trying to discuss religion itself, my point is that you can't just say it's disrespectful to disagree with somebody on the grounds that it's their religious belief.

[SSSSnakes]

I'm not trying to discuss religion itself, my point is that you can't just say it's disrespectful to disagree with somebody on the grounds that it's their religious belief.

I agree 100%. You can respectfully disagree with anything.

[FWK]

Very strange to me to see anyone here showing support for these snake handling cults. There is very little "history" to these cults. The practice was started in the early 1900's by an illiterate, alcoholic criminal by the name of George Hensley. It was a nothing but a publicity stunt that developed a following. He based the practice on a single verse from the bible that I will not quote here, and claimed to have been bitten hundreds of times with no ill effects. And yet, I'm sure to your complete bewilderment, he died suddenly after a bite in 1955. How odd. The practice is outlawed in most states where it takes place and is therefore typically practiced in private residences. The stunts are not limited to handling snakes, partakers also drink poisons and burn themselves with open flames. Most of the animals are collected illegally and kept in buckets without heat, food or water until they die. Then more are collected. Timbers are a favorite due to their relatively docile temperaments. I do not understand how anyone who is against animal cruelty or for herpetoculturist rights could ever condone such practices.

[Mikoh4792]

Very strange to me to see anyone here showing support for these snake handling cults. There is very little "history" to these cults. The practice was started in the early 1900's by an illiterate, alcoholic criminal by the name of George Hensley. It was a nothing but a publicity stunt that developed a following. He based the practice on a single verse from the bible that I will not quote here, and claimed to have been bitten hundreds of times with no ill effects. And yet, I'm sure to your complete bewilderment, he died suddenly after a bite in 1955. How odd. The practice is outlawed in most states where it takes place and is therefore typically practiced in private residences. The stunts are not limited to handling snakes, partakers also drink poisons and burn themselves with open flames. Most of the animals are collected illegally and kept in buckets without heat, food or water until they die. Then more are collected. Timbers are a favorite due to their relatively docile temperaments. I do not understand how anyone who is against animal cruelty or for herpetoculturist rights could ever condone such practices.

Well said.

[Georgia]

I did not intend for this thread to cause a debate or arguing. I simply meant to not disrespect the dead. Thats it.

[CosmicOwl]

I did not intend for this thread to cause a debate or arguing. I simply meant to not disrespect the dead. Thats it.

No offense, but I don't really understand why you started a thread about this guy. His practices are not something most people on this site are going to agree with or respect.

[Georgia]

Its not a matter of whether you respect his practices. Its a matter of the fact that he was not only a snake handler, but he was also a legitimate snake keeper and had alot of love for his snakes. Its a matter of opinion about his practices.

[Georgia]

And the snake that killed him was related to my KY Timber.

[Minkness]

=/

That is all....

[charlesc84]

And the snake that killed him was related to my KY Timber.


:hmm: My brain is gone and replaced with a black hole.

[Minkness]

Lol my thoughts exactly!

[Georgia]

Yeah, go on and hijack my thread with your nonsense.

[Georgia]

Very strange to me to see anyone here showing support for these snake handling cults. There is very little "history" to these cults. The practice was started in the early 1900's by an illiterate, alcoholic criminal by the name of George Hensley. It was a nothing but a publicity stunt that developed a following. He based the practice on a single verse from the bible that I will not quote here, and claimed to have been bitten hundreds of times with no ill effects. And yet, I'm sure to your complete bewilderment, he died suddenly after a bite in 1955. How odd. The practice is outlawed in most states where it takes place and is therefore typically practiced in private residences. The stunts are not limited to handling snakes, partakers also drink poisons and burn themselves with open flames. Most of the animals are collected illegally and kept in buckets without heat, food or water until they die. Then more are collected. Timbers are a favorite due to their relatively docile temperaments. I do not understand how anyone who is against animal cruelty or for herpetoculturist rights could ever condone such practices.

Sounds like a Wikipedia post...pkease stop derailing my thread.

[Shann]

Sounds like a Wikipedia post...pkease stop derailing my thread.

I don't believe it is derailing, and I think it was an excellent post. I'm sorry that a man died. But I think that this is an important issue to discuss, as incidents like this can be potentially damaging for hot keepers, and I was really surprised to see how many hot keepers are apparently ok with this. All the articles I've seen are filled with comments like "no one should be allowed to keep dangerous reptiles as pets" or "snake keeping should be illegal". Whether or not I agree with the religeous beliefs behind the practice is irrelevant. As a reptile owner, this kind of thing makes me worry about the future of reptile keeping, and I while have zero intention of ever keeping hots, it worries me for those who do.

[CrotalusR#1]

I don't believe it is derailing, and I think it was an excellent post. I'm sorry that a man died. But I think that this is an important issue to discuss, as incidents like this can be potentially damaging for hot keepers, and I was really surprised to see how many hot keepers are apparently ok with this. All the articles I've seen are filled with comments like "no one should be allowed to keep dangerous reptiles as pets" or "snake keeping should be illegal". Whether or not I agree with the religeous beliefs behind the practice is irrelevant. As a reptile owner, this kind of thing makes me worry about the future of reptile keeping, and I while have zero intention of ever keeping hots, it worries me for those who do.


What hot keepers have said they were ok with this? I'm not saying that's not true I am just curious what hot keepers commented on this that you know of?

[Georgia]

I may get reprimanded for this but im gonna say it bc it needs said.

This situation involves not only freedom of religion but freedom to keep your choice of snakes. Its a lose lose situation here. I neither agree nor disagree with what he was doing...the reason i say that is bc i have no right whatsoever to tell a man how he can practice his choice of faith. Regardless of it hurting our hobby, i feel we have no right as long as it is not hurting innocent bystanders.

[pet_snake_78]

Is the snake OK?

[Mikoh4792]

I may get reprimanded for this but im gonna say it bc it needs said.

This situation involves not only freedom of religion but freedom to keep your choice of snakes. Its a lose lose situation here. I neither agree nor disagree with what he was doing...the reason i say that is bc i have no right whatsoever to tell a man how he can practice his choice of faith. Regardless of it hurting our hobby, i feel we have no right as long as it is not hurting innocent bystanders.

Yes you do. You do if it infringes upon the lives of other people. What you do NOT have a right to do, is to make a post on a public forum and tell people to keep their opinions to themselves. No double standards please.

Besides, no one here ever said the man could not free handle his snakes. We are only showing our disagreement of his practices. Let's not confuse two different things.

Freedom of religion(without delving too much into a religious discussion) only goes so far. These practices do hurt other people;those people being us, the reptile keepers. We don't need another example for anti-reptile people to use against us in trying to take away our pets.

[Minkness]

I have to agree with Shann.

Also not a hot keeper, but who am I, or anyone, to tell you not to just because I wouldn't do it.

Where I am, I have no real reptile community let alone for snakes, and all ready have been dealing with anti-snake attitude...and I'm just getting a kingsnake.

As others have said though, the controversy of this thread seems to be that the OP submitted a link they knew would stir others then said keep comments/opinions to ourselves...

This brings up multiple issues all in simple thread...hot keeping, free handling, religious beliefs, and keep your mouth shut....to put it bluntly.

As a forum we should speak freely within the rules of that forum, as a community we should support eachother in oyr combined passion.

<3

[Mikoh4792]

Also not a hot keeper, but who am I, or anyone, to tell you not to just because I wouldn't do it.

I agree. No one here is saying people can't free handle their snakes. We're just showing disagreement. Two different things.

[Georgia]

The entire point of this thread was to inform on what happened. That simple. The reason i said to keep opinions to yourself is...because i knew it would turn into this. A ridiculously stupid debate about stuff you cant change.

[Mikoh4792]

The entire point of this thread was to inform on what happened. That simple. The reason i said to keep opinions to yourself is...because i knew it would turn into this. A ridiculously stupid debate about stuff you cant change.

So you knew in advance this topic would stir a similar reaction but you chose to do it anyways and on top of that to tell people not to do the very thing you expected of them? I'd say it was a ridiculously stupid post to make.

[Minkness]

Perhaps not the smartest but I can understand the reason. Let's not make this personal.

[CrotalusR#1]

The entire point of this thread was to inform on what happened. That simple. The reason i said to keep opinions to yourself is...because i knew it would turn into this. A ridiculously stupid debate about stuff you cant change.


Exactly! This thread wasn't made for ever one to debate the mans practice, it was more or less to inform us of what happens. The second Mikoh4792 made his comment this thread was derailed. I personally try not to judge especially without personally knowing the person so unless you personally new this man, saying anything about the man would be arrogant and ignorant. Like Georgia said this man didn't just Handel snake during his sermons but he was also a fellow hot keeper...not saying I agree with the practice but that's not the point of this thread. I feel like knowing he asked us to please keep our opinions to our selves and then to challenge that and go on with ignorant comments was simply immature.... Where not talking about which substrate to use or what's the write temps, where talking about a man who lost his life, a man who had a wife and kids. Can you guys seriously not see this is not the time to debate???

[Georgia]

Thank you Crotalus... i was not trying to start an argument. It was an informative thread. If you dont like the topic...bypass it and post on a different one.

[Mikoh4792]

Exactly! This thread wasn't made for ever one to debate the mans practice, it was more or less to inform us of what happens. The second Mikoh4792 made his comment this thread was derailed. I personally try not to judge especially without personally knowing the person so unless you personally new this man, saying anything about the man would be arrogant and ignorant. Like Georgia said this man didn't just Handel snake during his sermons but he was also a fellow hot keeper...not saying I agree with the practice but that's not the point of this thread. I feel like knowing he asked us to please keep our opinions to our selves and then to challenge that and go on with ignorant comments was simply immature.... Where not talking about which substrate to use or what's the write temps, where talking about a man who lost his life, a man who had a wife and kids. Can you guys seriously not see this is not the time to debate???

The point of my post in a way was to derail this thread's intended purpose, which was to post a controversial topic on a public forum and tell people to keep their disagreements to themselves.

Where do I judge this man? I don't. I judge his actions. Where did I make an ignorant comment?

It's sad when a person dies, but as said before reckless and stupid behavior isn't to be excused from criticism. This isn't a funeral and this isn't a family gathering. This is a public forum full of reptile keepers. Criticism is totally appropriate. Why don't I post a news story on a gun forum where a person died from playing russian rulette, tell the forum members to keep to themselves and see how it plays out.

[CrotalusR#1]

Mikoh4792, he asked us to pleases keep our opinions to out selves because this thread wasn't made to be a debate. Why couldn't you just bite your damn tung and not reply???... I just can't justify being rude and disrespectful and doing the exact thing he asked us not to do, it's bull **** and ****ing immature.

[Mikoh4792]

Mikoh4792, he asked us to pleases keep our opinions to out selves because this thread wasn't made to be a debate. Why couldn't you just bite your damn tung and not reply???... I just can't justify being rude and disrespectful and doing the exact thing he asked us not to do, it's bull **** and ****ing immature.

No, let's not sugar coat this with phrases like "asked us to please". You don't go on a public forum, post a contraversial topic which has stirred negative feedback each time, and then tell the forum members to keep their disagreements to themselves. That's not how open discussion works. I could pull up a hundred news stories of people who died within the last week because of rash decisions, where criticism would be perfectly deserved. I don't see what makes this one special. Criticism... is totally appropriate and neither rude nor disrespectful. Had this been a funeral or other private gathering I would have refrained.

[Minkness]

I can surely see Crotalus's point on it being an informational piece. Perhaps it was just the delivery, or words chosen that ruffled some feathers.

What's been said is said though. No point in beating a dead dog. As mentioned this was meant to be informational, not a debate.

lets try and keep our words neutral at least, even if we disagree. Which really, there is nothing to agree or disagree on since it's not intended to be an argument in the first place.

[CrotalusR#1]

Mikoh4792, stop being a keyboard worrier. You new derailing this post was gunna do this, you new it was exactly what he wanted us not to do.
Believe me, I would be the first person to jump all over this topic and saying my opinion on this matter but this thread clearly wasn't made for that it was simply to inform...I lave strong opinions on the people I KNOW who are in this religious group and they are not good, and believe me I wanna express them but that's not the write thing to do in this case. I can't say if enough, this thread was not asking for opinions, it wasn't asking you what you thought it was just informing you of the situating. Simple as that, any more debating on this is just pointless..

[Mikoh4792]

Mikoh4792, stop being a keyboard worrier. You new derailing this post was gunna do this, you new it was exactly what he wanted us not to do.
Believe me, I would be the first person to jump all over this topic and saying my opinion on this matter but this thread clearly wasn't made for that it was simply to inform...I lave strong opinions on the people I KNOW who are in this religious group and they are not good, and believe me I wanna express them but that's not the write thing to do in this case. I can't say if enough, this thread was not asking for opinions, it wasn't asking you what you thought it was just informing you of the situating. Simple as that, any more debating on this is just pointless..

That's exactly right, I did mention the whole point of me posting was to go against what he intended...which was to tell me to keep my opinions to myself on a public forum.

I really don't care if he wasn't asking for opinions. He was actively trying to shut them out. When someone tries to control speech when they should not, I will go against it. Expressing them is exactly the thing to do in this case.

[Minkness]

Let's save our energy and just stop this back and forth. There's no reason to believe anyone is going to 'win' this. It's a reptile forum, not a political free speech debate or even am argument of husbandry or beliefs.

Pretend your name is Elsa....and let it go....

[Mikoh4792]

not a political free speech debate or even am argument of husbandry or beliefs.

The debate starts when someone posts a controversial topic. At this point, it's just a matter of getting people to stop expressing their opinions.

[Minkness]

Meh, you're hooked on your own agenda.

[Mikoh4792]

Meh, you're hooked on your own agenda.

That's true, the same could be said for everyone.

[Minkness]

No, not everyone. Some people just don't bother. =)

[Mikoh4792]

No, not everyone. Some people just don't bother. =)

That doesn't make sense. We're talking about agendas. Of course everyone is hooked on their own agenda...it's their own agenda lol.

[Minkness]

The difference is, is how far one is willing to go to shove it in other people's faces.

[Mikoh4792]

The difference is, is how far one is willing to go to shove it in other people's faces.

I can only speak for myself. The furthest I'm willing to go? To express my opinion when told not to on a public forum.

[Minkness]

For how long?

[Mikoh4792]

For how long?

Not really sure, but it doesn't take much to type out a few sentences and click the reply button.

[Minkness]

Nope. It sure doesn't. Bed is calling however. Good night!

[Mikoh4792]

Nope. It sure doesn't. Bed is calling however. Good night!

Same, good night.

[Georgia]

If only stupidity was a Felony... youd be doing Life in prison + 100 years Mikoh.

[Mikoh4792]

If only stupidity was a Felony... youd be doing Life in prison + 100 years Mikoh.

Thanks. I wonder how long your sentence would be.

[CrotalusR#1]

If only stupidity was a Felony... youd be doing Life in prison + 100 years Mikoh.


Hahahah!... Mikoh, your tuning this into something it's not. It's honestly a little weird.

[Mikoh4792]

Hahahah!... Mikoh, your tuning this into something it's not. It's honestly a little weird.

Things change over time. It's alright. Now it's turned into Georgia resorting to personal insults because of his inability to use reason.

[Georgia]

No. You are Trolling.

http://i1085.photobucket.com/albums/j424/georgiagrower/Mobile%20Uploads/internet-troll-20110516-102141.jpg (http://s1085.photobucket.com/user/georgiagrower/media/Mobile%20Uploads/internet-troll-20110516-102141.jpg.html)

[Mikoh4792]

lol. If using reasoned arguments is trolling, so be it.

[Georgia]

Its not reasoned arguments. You are rebelling against the owner of a thread for no reason. Its all a matter of respect. And to be quite frank, its dumb. Unfortunately i fail to see what you have to gain from this other than petty satisfaction. If i am missing something then please enlighten me.

For i remember stating that this was a thread merely to inform on a current event. Not to debate and be stupid... why did i say this?

BECAUSE ITS MY DAMN THREAD!

[CrotalusR#1]

Your just completely incapable of hearing anything said on this thread unless you Typed it.

[Mikoh4792]

Its not reasoned arguments. You are rebelling against the owner of a thread for no reason. Its all a matter of respect. And to be quite frank, its dumb. Unfortunately i fail to see what you have to gain from this other than petty satisfaction. If i am missing something then please enlighten me.

For i remember stating that this was a thread merely to inform on a current event. Not to debate and be stupid... why did i say this?

BECAUSE ITS MY DAMN THREAD!

You can start as many threads as you want, but they don't belong to you once posted on a public forum. It's open to everyone. If you want to control everything, have your own website.

You are free to inform, as we are free to say " I disagree with his practices". The only problem comes when you tell us not to.

It didn't need to be a debate about whether he should be able to free-handle his snakes, but it did need to become a debate about telling people to keep to themselves on a public forum. That... is dumb.

[Mikoh4792]

Your just completely incapable of hearing anything said on this thread unless you Typed it.

Which would explain why I respond on a point by point basis.. I could accuse you of the same thing.

[Georgia]

Honestly...it seems you are the only one that has an issue with what I said.

[Mikoh4792]

Honestly...it seems you are the only one that has an issue with what I said.

I think you're right. Though there seems to be a hint of support from other members for my criticisms of the free handling practices.

[LarryS]

I think you're right. Though there seems to be a hint of support from other members for my criticisms of the free handling practices.

I would venture to guess that the VAST majority of the herp community is against this kind of free handling of hots, and feels that it is bad for our hobby. In many cases there are no laws prohibiting it (I am against new laws) so we must try to educate through forums and other avenues.

Our hobby is under attack.

[Derek Roddy]

Thank You Georgia for bringing awareness about a fellow herpers life and loss. It's always sad to lose a fellow herper....a person with the same passions as ourselves. Thoughts to his family and friends.

D

[shaunyboy]

I disrespect no one by saying I disagree with the practice. If someone dies from speeding in a car, I do not disrespect the diseased by saying he shouldn't have sped. Nobody has the right to post it on a public forum which I am apart of and tell me to keep it to myself.



Risky and dangerous behavior that negatively affects the image of other reptile keepers is not excused from criticism just because it is associated with religion.

It always a sad thing when anyone or thing dies. Sorry for the loss.

Religion is no excuse for bad handling practices. Plus talking about religion is against Forum rules.

i agree with all of the above

i mean NO disrespect to the man or his family...

but as chuck said Religion is NO excuse for terrible handling practice

imo yet another needless death caused by Religion,the thing that has caused more deaths than anything else since history began

my respectful condolances,shaun

[shaunyboy]

I think you're right. Though there seems to be a hint of support from other members for my criticisms of the free handling practices.

i feel the same and support what you said....

this death could have been avoided if correct handling procedures were in place

cheers shaun

[shaunyboy]

Its not reasoned arguments. You are rebelling against the owner of a thread for no reason. Its all a matter of respect. And to be quite frank, its dumb. Unfortunately i fail to see what you have to gain from this other than petty satisfaction. If i am missing something then please enlighten me.

For i remember stating that this was a thread merely to inform on a current event. Not to debate and be stupid... why did i say this?

BECAUSE ITS MY DAMN THREAD!

rebelling for no reason i disagree...

so anyone who does not share your opinion is a rebel,that's absurd imo

no mate you don't own the thread,the minute you post your thread it becomes a matter for anyone with an opinion to post on

so you think it's ok to make a thread,then police it yourself if people disagree with what you think...

then you go on to personally attack said person..

imo you posted a controversual subject then tried to use the poor mans death to stop folk from giving their opinions

cheers shaun

[Cmwells90]

I think the simple point is this, I cruise these forums on the daily and there is one post I will ALWAYS dread reading because I KNOW it's going to turn into an argument or a posting war between a few people. Handling Hots has ALWAYS caused an argument here, when people post their personal pictures, stories, or news. It's a simple concept that we obviously hate the idea, feel it's hurting those of us who doing things the right way, and may lead to long term problems for the hobby.

I am in no way agreeing with anyone, but anyone who pays attention on this forum could have told you this was a bad idea. Plus you should have known that by asking people to keep their opinions to themselves you would run into someone who refuses to do so.

[Minkness]

Are the hot snake threads usually so heated? Sheesh...

As someone neutral to it all, it's terrible that it seems the OP is almost antagonizing at this point....

Is it just morbid entertainment at this point or something?

Sad the guy is dead, but if he had been handling properly he wouldn't be. The situation was a time bomb with a glitch in the wiring. Call it...surprise suicide even....

Regardless of what 'happened', what is currently happening on this thread is just pointless. You can't yell at an oak tree long enough and expect it ti change to a willow.

Stop giving eachother ammunition and move on to a more productive conversation.

[Cmwells90]

Are the hot snake threads usually so heated? Sheesh...

As someone neutral to it all, it's terrible that it seems the OP is almost antagonizing at this point....

Is it just morbid entertainment at this point or something?

Sad the guy is dead, but if he had been handling properly he wouldn't be. The situation was a time bomb with a glitch in the wiring. Call it...surprise suicide even....

Regardless of what 'happened', what is currently happening on this thread is just pointless. You can't yell at an oak tree long enough and expect it ti change to a willow.

Stop giving eachother ammunition and move on to a more productive conversation.

No, no, no, that makes wayyyy too much sense!

[that1guy]

Alot has been said in this thread, I only read the first and last page but would like to offer my opinion.

Handling venomous snakes is risky. You can take precautions to make it less risky, as most keepers do, but there is always a chance you can get bit. Granted the way this man was handling the snake was more risky, but it was his risk to take and he paid the ultimate price in this instance.

I am a strong believer that a persons life is theirs to risk so long as there not putting anyone elses life in danger.

[marvelfreak]

Alot has been said in this thread, I only read the first and last page but would like to offer my opinion.

Handling venomous snakes is risky. You can take precautions to make it less risky, as most keepers do, but there is always a chance you can get bit. Granted the way this man was handling the snake was more risky, but it was his risk to take and he paid the ultimate price in this instance.

I am a strong believer that a persons life is theirs to risk so long as there not putting anyone elses life in danger.
If you watch the news report it says it happen during a church sermon. So he was putting other people lives at risk.:no::no:

[Georgia]

I am not antagonizing anyone.

[CrotalusR#1]

The man did not get bit handling his snakes at his home it was during his sermon where he believes it was the write thing to do. so at this point if your are arguing the way he got bit than you are arguing with his religion which may or may not be against forum rules.

Those who are saying he was endangering others lives clearly haven't actually seen the ways these sermons go down. Only those who are allowed to Handel snakes are on the "stage" and there are usually multiple members up there so one, if a sake is dropped or something it will never go anywhere and 2, anyone with in Striking distance of the snake probably has a handful of copperheads themselves lol.
Those who are saying proper handling procedures would have avoided this clearly don't understand there beliefs and missed the mark all together. Basically in a nut shell if they are meant to die they will be bitten and if there not they will survive a bite with no treatment.


Nathan.

[that1guy]

If you watch the news report it says it happen during a church sermon. So he was putting other people lives at risk.:no::no:

That is debatable. I don't know the specifics, the man may have pulled the snake out without warning or he may have informed the congregation beforehand. Depending on this...

However, the congregation was there by their own choice and could have left at anytime. If they did not leave once they were aware of the snake they were taking a risk of their own.

[SSSSnakes]

By a misinterpreted scripture verse, this man tempted the Lord thy God and paid the price. He was handling the snake carelessly on purpose and according to his own beliefs, his Faith was lacking.

[Mikoh4792]

The man did not get bit handling his snakes at his home it was during his sermon where he believes it was the write thing to do. so at this point if your are arguing the way he got bit than you are arguing with his religion which may or may not be against forum rules.

Those who are saying proper handling procedures would have avoided this clearly don't understand there beliefs and missed the mark all together. Basically in a nut shell if they are meant to die they will be bitten and if there not they will survive a bite with no treatment.

Double standards.

1st - You're trying to get people to stop disagreeing with the practice because discussing religion might be against the rules

2nd - You excuse the man's behaviour by saying it's his religious beliefs.

Don't use his religion as a justification and no one needs to talk about religion.

[SSSSnakes]

no one needs to talk about religion.

If it was not for his religious belief he would not have been handling the snake carelessly in the church. It's all about his religion and his beliefs.

The Mods should have stopped this thread a long time ago.

[Mikoh4792]

If it was not for his religious belief he would not have been handling the snake carelessly in the church. It's all about his religion and his beliefs.

The Mods should have stopped this thread a long time ago.

That's true. I was going to say one only needs to leave it at " I agree or disagree with free handling hots"... but realistically people are going to bring up his religion anyways.

[CrotalusR#1]

1st - You're trying to get people to stop disagreeing with the practice because discussing religion might be against the rules

2nd - You excuse the man's behaviour by saying it's his religious beliefs.

Don't use his religion as a justification and no one needs to talk about religion.

Listen I am done dealing with your stupid troll ***.. You are a moron for the simple fact that you are enjoying derailing this thread from the beginning.
You are seriously annoying. I'm done trying to sate my point because regardless of whether or not you agree your still just gunna run your damn mouth..how is it that the second some one on here post something, before the page can be refreshed you have already ran your mouth for 3 paragraphs. You haven't even been on this site for a year and you have nearly 5,000 post, you must live on this site. Dose carpal tunnel hurt???

[Mikoh4792]

Listen I am done dealing with your stupid troll ***.. You are a moron for the simple fact that you are enjoying derailing this thread from the beginning.
You are seriously annoying. I'm done trying to sate my point because regardless of whether or not you agree your still just gunna run your damn mouth..how is it that the second some one on here post something, before the page can be refreshed you have already ran your mouth for 3 paragraphs. You haven't even been on this site for a year and you have nearly 5,000 post, you must live on this site. Dose carpal tunnel hurt???

So pointing out the logical fallacies and hypocrisies of a person's argument is trolling. I'm the one here using reason while you're the one using personal attacks.

Actually, I don't spend much time on this site, I just post a lot when I am. I post pictures of my own snakes, help those who have questions, and sometimes get into several page long arguments like this when someone isn't being fair.

So instead of resorting to ad-hominem, why don't you actually invalidate my argument by backing up your own. You quoted my points; break them down and argue them correctly without making fun of my character. Who is the real immature one?

You haven't even been on this site for a year

By the way, your math is off. I've been here for a year and a half. On average, I am only making about 5 more posts than you a day.

[CrotalusR#1]

Here's why this argument is never going to work.
I'm basically frustrated with the fact that you went ahead and purposely derailed the thread. You had the choice to 1 realize that this isn't a thread that even was supposed to get any replies or 2 get offended by him asking us to keep our replies to ourselves and go on a massive rant. I have a problem with the fact that you chose to be that guy, and made a fuss over a very simple request on again a thread that wasn't made for replies. So we are basically arguing our own opinions which sorta means no ones write or wrong it just comes down to your own personal beliefs and values write ? Can we agree on that at least lol.
I just felt like doing the exact opposite of what he said was disrespectful even tho this is a public forum. It's sorta like even if you can, doesn't mean You should, know what I mean?

[Mikoh4792]

Here's why this argument is never going to work.
I'm basically frustrated with the fact that you went ahead and purposely derailed the thread. You had the choice to 1 realize that this isn't a thread that even was supposed to get any replies or 2 get offended by him asking us to keep our replies to ourselves and go on a massive rant. I have a problem with the fact that you chose to be that guy, and made a fuss over a very simple request on again a thread that wasn't made for replies. So we are basically arguing our own opinions which sorta means no ones write or wrong it just comes down to your own personal beliefs and values write ? Can we agree on that at least lol.
I just felt like doing the exact opposite of what he said was disrespectful even tho this is a public forum. It's sorta like even if you can, doesn't mean You should, know what I mean?

Let's not get this twisted. It's disrespectful to come on to a public forum, and tell people to keep their opinions to themselves on a controversial topic which for sure, was to stir such reactions. So I don't see myself as being disrespectful nor am I trying to be. I'm just reacting to the disrespect brought on to the forum.

I just felt like doing the exact opposite of what he said was disrespectful even tho this is a public forum.

Shouldn't have said it in the first place. Post what you want... post this story, I don't care. But the moment you tell me to keep my opinion to myself I will be that guy. If you want to bash me for doing so.. so be it. Because as you can already tell, I have no problems arguing for my point.

[MDT]

http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh572/mtucker66/3536a65defeba3b8050906f7be139597_zpsa0116874.jpg




Sorry......it's all I got.... :D

[CrotalusR#1]

Lol... No ones butt hurt .. Just frustrated..

[Georgia]

The point was to watch the video. Not debate. That simple. A moderator needs to delete this thread. Obviously people are to stupid to even congregate on a forum.

[Mikoh4792]

The point was to watch the video. Not debate. That simple. A moderator needs to delete this thread. Obviously people are to stupid to even congregate on a forum.

We're not debating the snake handling practice. The debating is about you telling us not to voice our opinions on the matter. A difference you seem to be having trouble making out. Let's not call others stupid when you're the one having problems getting it.

[Georgia]

Im calling YOU a complete jackass for the way you keep stiring the pot...YOU dont get it.

[Mikoh4792]

Im calling YOU a complete jackass for the way you keep stiring the pot...YOU dont get it.

The pot needs to be stirred.

[Georgia]

Well have fun stirring it by yourself.

[Mikoh4792]

Well have fun stirring it by yourself.

I would, but unfortunately a few members have already came in and stated their disagreements as well.

[Georgia]

Talk amongst yourselves

[Georgia]

Understand?

[Sylphie]

Huh, Mikoh4792, after reading all this post in this thread I really like you :D

You know, I think that if Georgia in first post will write something like "you know, man dies, please this is only for information, let's not fight in this topic, let us respect the dead" (because I think that was the point) we would avoid fighting. But when you command people to "keep quiet" then you are violating their freedom to express their views. If polite asked people in 99% will do what they are asking for. But when your tone is demanding then they automatically start fight for they freedom.

About the same subject... I'm from country where we don't have that religion, we can't have hots unless when we meet the most stringent requirements of the government, so I just think that it's sad that that men died from bite... and it's even more sad that therefore opinions on hot keepers in your country may become more negative. But people are people, as long as there is no law or "rules" about keeping hots things like this will happen. You can only do whatever you can to build more positive picture of hots.

I'm sorry if I offend someone's feelings, I tried to write as neutrally as I could.

[Mikoh4792]

Huh, Mikoh4792, after reading all this post in this thread I really like you :D

You know, I think that if Georgia in first post will write something like "you know, man dies, please this is only for information, let's not fight in this topic, let us respect the dead" (because I think that was the point) we would avoid fighting. But when you command people to "keep quiet" then you are violating their freedom to express their views. If polite asked people in 99% will do what they are asking for. But when your tone is demanding then they automatically start fight for they freedom.

About the same subject... I'm from country where we don't have that religion, we can't have hots unless when we meet the most stringent requirements of the government, so I just think that it's sad that that men died from bite... and it's even more sad that therefore opinions on hot keepers in your country may become more negative. But people are people, as long as there is no law or "rules" about keeping hots things like this will happen. You can only do whatever you can to build more positive picture of hots.

I'm sorry if I offend someone's feelings, I tried to write as neutrally as I could.

Why thank you.

Yes I think I would have reacted differently or not at all had this been done in a different tone, but I don't think criticism of rash decisions should be taken as disrespect.

[Sylphie]

Why thank you.

Yes I think I would have reacted differently or not at all had this been done in a different tone, but I don't think criticism of rash decisions should be taken as disrespect.

Huh, I agree with you that criticism if said with respect for other people is not disrespect... but you know, people are soo different, some might see even most cultural criticism as insulting, trolling and all evil. In that situation imho the best way is to ignore that, and understand that we all different and there is no point in fighting. Unless someone is trying to "keep us quiet" ;)

But this start to be off topic, so lets stop fighting and I wish you all good day/night!

[SSSSnakes]

Why thank you.

Yes I think I would have reacted differently or not at all had this been done in a different tone, but I don't think criticism of rash decisions should be taken as disrespect.

This thread should have never been started. I believe that the OP knew it was a controversial topic and wanted it to end the way it did. This is not a topic about snake handling, it's about a man's religious beliefs. If youdon't want opinions and responses, then don't post it on a public forum.

Mikoh, I do have to agree with most of what you have posted here and your right to do so.

[millertime89]

http://d.justpo.st/images/2014/09/157d39262ab90d36211042a0bb8025dd.jpg

http://memecrunch.com/meme/45B90/i-m-just-here-for-the-comments/image.png

[Georgia]

No i did not believe that this thread would turn out the way it did.

[millertime89]

You two have been posting free handling stuff despite the objections of many here since I first noticed you. How did you think this thread would go? Mikoh is far from the only person that not only thinks free handling is stupid and pointless. He's not the troll here. You and Crotalus are. You're the ones posting controversial material and expecting people to just go along with it. I feel sorry for his family and friends but perhaps by his example people will realize what he was doing was stupid and it will help others move away from free handling.

I'm biting my tongue here, there's much more I would like to say but out of respect for the dead and the religion of others I'm not.

[CrotalusR#1]

You two have been posting free handling stuff despite the objections of many here since I first noticed you. How did you think this thread would go? Mikoh is far from the only person that not only thinks free handling is stupid and pointless. He's not the troll here. You and Crotalus are. You're the ones posting controversial material and expecting people to just go along with it. I feel sorry for his family and friends but perhaps by his example people will realize what he was doing was stupid and it will help others move away from free handling.

I'm biting my tongue here, there's much more I would like to say but out of respect for the dead and the religion of others I'm not.



Exactly what controversial material have I posted??? I have said it many times in this forum I'm not arguing wether or not free handling is good or not cas to me it's a really stupid thing. I'm just arguing the fact that it was just a **** move to purposely derail this thread and make it one big cluster ****.
So exactly what sorta controversial material have I posted millertime89??

You said I have been posting free handling stuff? Where the hell did I do that? I strongly disagree with free handling so I think your confused.

[Akuma223]

http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh572/mtucker66/3536a65defeba3b8050906f7be139597_zpsa0116874.jpg




Sorry......it's all I got.... :D

I love you for this post

[Mikoh4792]

I'm just arguing the fact that it was just a **** move to purposely derail this thread and make it one big cluster ****..

Let's not put all the blame on one side. It was a " " move to start this thread, which is the only reason I posted in the first place. You are just as much involved in making this a big cluster " " by getting into a back and forth conversation with me.

[millertime89]

Exactly what controversial material have I posted??? I have said it many times in this forum I'm not arguing wether or not free handling is good or not cas to me it's a really stupid thing. I'm just arguing the fact that it was just a **** move to purposely derail this thread and make it one big cluster ****.
So exactly what sorta controversial material have I posted millertime89??

You said I have been posting free handling stuff? Where the hell did I do that? I strongly disagree with free handling so I think your confused.

My apologies. It was demonseed, not you. Carry on.

[BIGT FROM F.B.]

i love you for this post


stop.........yer killin' me!!!!! Rotflmao!!!!

[CosmicOwl]

Here is a tip for the future: If you're going to start a thread that you know is controversial, think twice. If you still feel like it needs to be posted, don't fan the flames of controversy by telling people to keep their opinions to themselves.

[shaunyboy]

If it was not for his religious belief he would not have been handling the snake carelessly in the church. It's all about his religion and his beliefs.

The Mods should have stopped this thread a long time ago.

i don't see why the mods should stop this thread.....

1 the guy got bit because of unsafe handling practices (fact)

2,it was due to his religion he did said bad handling (fact)

3,he died as a result of the above (fact)

all of the above is fact....

no one is slagging off anyones religion,merely pointing out why this poor man died,no ?


cheers shaun

[SSSSnakes]

i don't see why the mods should stop this thread.....

1 the guy got bit because of unsafe handling practices (fact)

2,it was due to his religion he did said bad handling (fact)

3,he died as a result of the above (fact)

all of the above is fact....

no one is slagging off anyones religion,merely pointing out why this poor man died,no ?


cheers shaun

They should have stopped the thread, because discussing religion is against forum rules. To properly discuss and debate this topic religion would have to come into play.

[CosmicOwl]

They should have stopped the thread, because discussing religion is against forum rules. To properly discuss and debate this topic religion would have to come into play.

I disagree. I don't think you need to discuss religion to have a discussion about something that involves religion. It's objective fact that free handling hots is dangerous and that doing it around others is reckless.

That being said, the thread probably should have been shut down when Georgia forced the religious subject in an attempt to silence people.

[SSSSnakes]

I disagree. I don't think you need to discuss religion to have a discussion about something that involves religion. It's objective fact that free handling hots is dangerous and that doing it around others is reckless.

That being said, the thread probably should have been shut down when Georgia forced the religious subject in an attempt to silence people.

Exactly. Religion was gong to be brought up, and had every right to be in this discussion. The man was free handling snake, but because of is religious beliefs.