Scared scales?

[kxr]

Hi, I was cleaning out my ball python enclosure today and noticed something that I have never seen in all my years of keeping reptiles. I took my male ball python out and noticed that he had what appeared to be scars along a significant portion his ventral scales. I have no clue what this could be, I've had my ball pythons in the same setup for years the only thing I've somewhat recently changed is I replaced my old substrate paper towels & newspaper with reptile bark with a bit of moss. I am not sure whether it could be that the other ball python in the enclosure pushed up against a hide rose it a bit and dropped it on his belly somehow or if it could be due to him rubbing against a somewhat rough edge on one something in their enclosure. Another thing that came into my mind was maybe scale rot or burns, I am not really sure what causes scale rot but I haven't changed the heat in the enclosure so I don't think it's a burn. Has anybody ever seen anything like this before and will it heal if they're just scars after a shed?

PS. Please don't flame me for having my ball pythons together, I have plans to separate them in a couple weeks I just have to move a desk out of my room, already have the tanks and heating etc. ready.

[Pareeeee]

I'm not sure what it is but I'm commenting to bump the post for you.

Hopefully someone who knows what it is will comment.

In the meantime, please post all the details of your enclosure.

- Cool/warm side temps

- Humidity level %

- What type of heating you're using

- Is your heat source on a thermostat

Any other info you believe could be relevant / helpful.

[CosmicOwl]

I don't know what is wrong with the scales, but it doesn't looks like normal scale damage. There might be a more serious underlying issue that is causing the scales to break and split. I go to the vet if I were you.

[Aaron_S]

Interesting markings. They look like something is scraping them.

I doubt it's a burn. It could be early onset of scale rot in a couple of places. You'd have to have real rough stuff in there for it to be from decor.

However, some of it, not 100% sure, could be discolouration from the new substrate and moving along it. I would still take the snake to the vet for a quick check to make sure there's no underlying infection. They are definitely odd markings.

[kxr]

The environment of the tank is pretty much perfect, if anything it might be a little to dry . The temps are around 90 on the warm side and in the mid to low 80's on the cool side and the humidity when I cleaned the cage was in the 20's can't remember if it was low or high 20's but it was either like 20 or 29 not mid 20's. I've been reading up on scale rot and have seen people recommend applying betadine twice daily and flamazine to the belly. I will take him to a vet but it won't be for a few days as I am really busy with school atm, I am in university and have 5 exams within the next two weeks. Do you guys think I should try the "home remedy" for the next few days to see if any improvement arises? Thanks for the input, it's greatly appreciated.

EDIT: Oh and it isn't discoloration from the bedding, from feeling the belly there is obviously something wrong. The edges of his scales seem to be somewhat jagged and the brownish marks are actually indented into the scales (though I suppose the indentations could have simply been discolored by the substrate).

[Aaron_S]

Your humidity is way too low first of all so your husbandry is not even close to perfect.

Secondly, does anyone recommending the application of this "home remedy" actually know how scale rot happens? I can answer this. It's a no.

Scale rot comes from too wet conditions and dirty conditions. The snake must be sitting in this filthy set up for a period of time (longer than a day or two). Since your humidity sucks it's unlikely this is the cause so you'd be treating for something you most likely don't have.

However, it COULD be an infection beginning. From what, I don't know. What kind of infection? Again I don't know.

It sucks you have exams but you have a responsibility to a live animal. If you had a child and they were sick would you go "Oh man. I should go get you antibiotics but I have some exams. Tough luck."

[marvelfreak]

From the looks of those marks i said some kind of scratches. I would take your hand and pressing down slide it all over the cage sides and bottom. See if there are any sharp or rough edges anywhere. Also check hide and water bowls. I had a snake cut itself on a sharp little plastic nipple like thing on the bottom of it water bowl before.

[Pareeeee]

The humidity should be 60%, never 20%. Correct humidity levels are very important for Ball Pythons; they can get tons of problems if they're too low. Easy fix: put a large water dish (even a dog dish will do) in the enclosure and mist the enclosure once daily.

[kxr]

Well, I have been trying really hard to fix the humidity issues. The main reason I switched the bedding was to attempt to raise humidity, I already have a significant water dish in there (or at least I did until I discovered my male might have scale rot), I spray the tank as often as I can and I even have a towel over the top of the tank covering the portion of the screen that isn't covered by lighting. I believe the humidity was 29 not 20 but still that is far too low, I agree. Any other suggestions to help raise my humidity would be appreciated.

The new tanks I purchased are pvc so once I set those up (fingers crossed) the humidity should be less of a problem. Regardless once I set them up I'll have enough room in the tanks to put a humid hide big enough for them if need be so that should help significantly.

I'm trying to get a vet appointment but all I'm saying is there's a likely hood it might take a few days depending on their schedule. I'll hold off on the "home remedy" until I receive official word from the vet.

[pdomensis]

Is there any place the snake could be rubbing against the screen? I could see that producing those kinds of scratches, though I don't know how they would be so localized. Ditto to what's been said on your humidity. Post a pic of your setup. There may be some easy adjustments you can make.

[Aaron_S]

Well, I have been trying really hard to fix the humidity issues. The main reason I switched the bedding was to attempt to raise humidity, I already have a significant water dish in there (or at least I did until I discovered my male might have scale rot), I spray the tank as often as I can and I even have a towel over the top of the tank covering the portion of the screen that isn't covered by lighting. I believe the humidity was 29 not 20 but still that is far too low, I agree. Any other suggestions to help raise my humidity would be appreciated.

The new tanks I purchased are pvc so once I set those up (fingers crossed) the humidity should be less of a problem. Regardless once I set them up I'll have enough room in the tanks to put a humid hide big enough for them if need be so that should help significantly.

I'm trying to get a vet appointment but all I'm saying is there's a likely hood it might take a few days depending on their schedule. I'll hold off on the "home remedy" until I receive official word from the vet.

Where in Canada do you live?

[bigsnakegirl785]

Although it was nowhere near this bad, I had similar experiences with ReptiBark. It never held humidity, was always chipping his scales, and I was always finding tiny to larger splinters in his skin. I switched to EcoEarth and no such problems since. I'd say it's the bedding scraping up his belly scales, and the low humidity is accentuating that.

[CosmicOwl]

Although it was nowhere near this bad, I had similar experiences with ReptiBark. It never held humidity, was always chipping his scales, and I was always finding tiny to larger splinters in his skin. I switched to EcoEarth and no such problems since. I'd say it's the bedding scraping up his belly scales, and the low humidity is accentuating that.

Weird, I have a few snakes on reptibark and have not noticed that. It's a mix a mix of bbark and eco earth though, so maybe that's why.

[bigsnakegirl785]

Weird, I have a few snakes on reptibark and have not noticed that. It's a mix a mix of bbark and eco earth though, so maybe that's why.

Yeah I'd say so, the stuff I used was pure bark chips no other bedding. The EcoEarth is probably raising humidity high enough that the bark isn't scratching up your snakes' scales. I even dumped the stuff into buckets and soaked them to try raise the humidity with no luck.

[kxr]

I live in Oshawa (about an hour outside of Toronto) and I am about to take him to a vet. I can take a pic of the enclosure when I get back but it won't be a good representation because I changed the substrate and stuff when I cleaned the tank as I am switching them to new tanks after my exams are over.

Hmm, hopefully it is just the substrate as that would be an easy fix. Is eco earth on its own a suitable substrate? Also how hard is eco earth to clean? I feel like it would be a pain to remove when cleaning.

[marvelfreak]

Although it was nowhere near this bad, I had similar experiences with ReptiBark. It never held humidity, was always chipping his scales, and I was always finding tiny to larger splinters in his skin. I switched to EcoEarth and no such problems since. I'd say it's the bedding scraping up his belly scales, and the low humidity is accentuating that.
You sure it was Reptile Bark and not something similar? I been using it for years and have never had a problem.

[bigsnakegirl785]

I live in Oshawa (about an hour outside of Toronto) and I am about to take him to a vet. I can take a pic of the enclosure when I get back but it won't be a good representation because I changed the substrate and stuff when I cleaned the tank as I am switching them to new tanks after my exams are over.

Hmm, hopefully it is just the substrate as that would be an easy fix. Is eco earth on its own a suitable substrate? Also how hard is eco earth to clean? I feel like it would be a pain to remove when cleaning.

Yes, EcoEarth is perfectly fine on its own, and you can mix it with several other beddings if you so choose. EcoEarth isn't really all that hard to clean. It does well at holding liquids together, so you just need to scoop out the general area where the mess was made. Then fully clean out the bedding every few months or so. Larger enclosures can take a bit more work, but I use a dust pan to shovel out bedding and then use the wet vac to vacuum up the rest since it doesn't use bags.

You sure it was Reptile Bark and not something similar? I been using it for years and have never had a problem.

Yup 100% sure. I bought 2 big bags at a time from Pet Supermarket to fill up his enclosure at $17/bag (which that in itself is incentive enough to switch to EcoEarth), had Zoo Med's logo and everything. When it was fresh out of the bag I had no trouble but once it dried out there wasn't much I could do (which was usually within 24 hours).

[kxr]

So for anyone curious it appears to be a skin infection and he's currently on antibiotic injections every 3 days and dilute bentadine bathes once a day. Hopefully he'll be feeling better soon. The vet suggested I keep them on paper towel like I used to and simply offer a humid hide which won't be possible until I place them in their new tanks but I think that's what I'll go with. Anybody object?

[bigsnakegirl785]

I'm not too knowledgeable on the treatment, but did he do any tests to make sure it was an infection? It's definitely likely if he's been getting all scratched up, but it's best to double-check before you start giving them antibiotics.

[kxr]

She said that it was likely due to the substrate switch in combination with me trying to raise the humidity in the tank leading to bacterial or fungal organisms growing in the substrate. There has been a significant increase is the redness under his ventral scales over the past few days and she believed that the redness along with the deterioration of the ventral scales was an indication of a skin infection of some sort.