baby western hognose not eating! please help!

[kuester]

I received my precious new baby on 10/07/14 from a breeder that guarantees their babies voluntarily eat 2 times before selling. when I received my hognose(male) he was 6 1/2" long, smallest snake I've ever had. I have him in a 45g tank, with cool side 82-84 and hot side(basking spot) at about 92-95. very active little snake, but when I go near the cage he hisses and lunges(mouth closed, I was told hognoses bluff) sometimes he lunges so hard he tips over... I do not handle snakes until theyre voluntarily eating 2 weeks in a row and I wait 3 days after they eat to handle them if they are eating good. but I don't feed my snakes just in their cages as I don't want them consuming bedding, I place(scoop up bedding theyre on top of and let them slither into container) them in deli cups(at this size) with air holes on the warm side of their enclosure I feed them at 7pm and remove them the next day at 10am. I tried feeding on 10/09/14 but no interest, tried on 10/14/14 he ate but also regurgitated(I began to really worry I've never had a snake that's regurgitated... :( ) I waited 10 days for him to rest after that so tried to feed him 10/24/14 no go again, tried again on 11/2 no go... I size the pinkie to the girth of the snake but at this point his head is the widest point!! but I know the pinkies aren't too large for him! :( :'( I'm going to try today(11/3/14) using the "braining" method which I'm not looking forward to but I need my baby to eat! if he doesn't eat today, tomorrow I will try cutting a pinkie down the middle.

I also own an adult blue tongue skink(4y/o), adult cornsnake(11y/o), 2 adult crested geckos(5y/o), adult gargoyle gecko(5y/o) and a juvenile Kenyan sand boa(about 11" not sure of age) got from same captive breeder that I got this hognose from however the boa has eaten 3 times for me and has a great temperament. I've owned a balled python, Colombian rainbow boa however these got to large so I rehomed to a family member who has closets redesigned as snake enclosures with beautiful glass doors and all accommodations for the species. also have had a bearded dragon but rehomed to cousin with kids because kids loved him sooo much!

I'm very concerned about my baby hognose, I don't want him to die but I also do not want to consider force feeding with pinkie pump but I may not have another choice... any suggestions?

[ohh_kristina]

If you have him in a 45g tank, I would say that is much, much too large. Especially for a young hognose. They are notorious for liking smaller enclosures. The open space may be stressing him out.
If he regurgitated, he definitely needs to be monitored. Does he have any symptoms indicating illness (other than the regurgitation)?
I wouldn't try feeding him 3 days in a row. If he rejected food on the 2nd, then he needs at least a few days to rest/destress in between attempts to feed. Trying every day may aggravate the issue more.
You say you got him on 10/7 and attempted to feed on 10/9. He may not have eaten then because he was acclimating to his new environment. Since then he's been in a large tank (too large imo), obviously stressed (lunging, hissing), and regurgitated (that takes a toll on the body), etc. Sounds like he needs to be moved to a smaller enclosure and monitored for a few days or another week before another attempt is made. You didn't mention whether or not you have hides in his enclosure, but if you don't, you should add one. If you do, consider adding another!

That being said, if he continues to regurgitate, I'd contact the breeder and take him to a vet. Good luck and keep us updated!

[Joshchimera]

I hope your Hognose starts eating, good suggestions by the other guys.

[kuester]

I do have multiple hides, a small water dish 1/4h of the way full and humidity is at 10-30 percent, I guess I forgot to mention that! he is not showing any other symptoms he just goes around the edge of is cage then he'll stop and sleeping for a while then doing laps again. I will try putting him in a 10g today instead of trying to feed for the 3rd day in a row. when do you think I should try feeding him after switching enclosures? its strange that he would prefer a smaller enclosure but I guess he is tiny, I just wanted him to have a sense of freedom in a larger enclosure, also ive never owned a hognose so if you have anything else you could tell me specific to hoggy care id really appreciate it!! how long can a 6 1/2" snake go without eating?

[EL Ziggy]

I don't keep hoggies but I would agree you're trying to feed him too often. Let him settle in for another 7-10 days and offer food again. I would also suggest feeding him in his enclosure where he probably feels the most secure. If your temps and humidity are on point a little ingested substrate won't hurt him. Your temps may also be a little high. I'd dial the warm side back to 86-90 and the cool side to the mid-high 70's. I found a couple of care sheets that may help. Best wishes and please keep us posted on your progress.
http://www.specialtyserpents.com/caresheets/Western%20Hognose%20Snake.pdf
Western Hognose Snake (http://www.lllreptile.com/info/library/animal-care-sheets/snakes/-/western-hognose-snake/)

[kuester]

I was told by the breeder to have a basking heat of 95 and cool side at 84. ive never fed a snake in its cage because I don't want to accidentally get bit trying to pick them up, I have aspen bedding and have no idea how to feed a snake in its cage. when I walk into the reptile room hes already hissing, puffing up and lunging(mouth closed) in random directions... which I feel means hes not secure in the cage. the breeder says if he doesn't eat within the next 7 days I will have to force feed with a pinkie pump, basically turning the pinkie into jam and forcing it down the snakes throat. however I want friendly snakes and I feel this process would contradict that. also snakes at this size/age should be eating about twice a week...

[EL Ziggy]

The hissing and striking are just defensive gestures. Many snakes do this in the beginning. Some snakes are also problem feeders when they're settling in. He should calm down soon. Patience is the key. I wouldn't handle attempt to handle him at all until he's eaten a few times. I definitely wouldn't advise force feeding at this point either. Even younger snakes can go months without eating. As long as he isn't losing too much weight, or showing other signs of illness, I would wait him out. Continue offering food every 7 days or so and he'll most likely eat eventually. As far as feeding in the enclosure you can either use tongs to dangle the prey in front of the snake or you can just place the prey in the cage overnight and let the snake find it. You can also try putting the snake in a small covered deli cup with a pinky overnight and see if that helps. Like I said I don't keep hoggies but most care sheets call for slightly lower temps than what you're currently providing. What are you using as heat source? Is it controlled by a thermostat? Hopefully some of the other hognose keepers will chime in with ideas. Best wishes.

[kuester]

I haven't been handling him except to put him in his deli cup for feeding. but even then I let him slither into a toilet paper tube then I slowly let him slither into deli cup or ill scoop up the section of bedding hes on at the time and let him slither into deli cup, I place it on the warm side of his cage and cover with his hide from 7pm to 10am. the breeder says to try feeding again tomorrow... also says if he doesn't eat by Thursday its time to force feed... his head is now the widest point on his body so I would say hes lost weight... ive tried doing the tong dangle in his deli cup but like I said when he lunges his mouths closed... the breeder says my temps are perfect but everyones opinion is sooo different I don't know if I have time to try it all, I don't want my snake to die :'( I use a ceramic heat emitter and I just have a thermometer that I check multiple times a day. hes always on the hot side of the enclosure so I feel temps are good?

by the way ziggy what kind of snake is your pic, its beautiful!

[sharthun]

Like EZ mentioned, it sounds like the snake is stressed and I agree the hot side may be too warm. All heat sources should be controlled with a thermostat for correct temps and safety for you and the snake. I suggest lowering the hot side temp to 85 ish and let him settle in. Try feeding in the enclosure after waiting a few days with the lower temps. Snakes can go a very long time without eating. When the snake is comfortable and secure in it's enclosure and the conditions are correct they will eat. I wouldn't suggest force feeding at all. Good luck!

[kuester]

if the hot side was too hot wouldn't the snake be on the cool side not the hot side? ive never used thermostats for any of my reptiles and never had any problems. the deli cup method usually has better results than just putting it in the cage and the breeder recommends the deli cup method and to try again tomorrow... this is just a baby snake though only 6 1/2" long and I received him 10/7 and have no idea when it last ate. I would love to avoid force feeding at all costs!!

[EL Ziggy]

I think ALL heat sources should be regulated by a dependable thermostat. It's a critical piece of equipment when keeping snakes that require an external heat source IMO. I really hope you get him on track soon. Keep us posted. Thanks for the compliment. That's my albino whitesided (snow) bull snake Apollo in my avatar pic. He was hatched 7/11/14 and I've had him since 8/14/14. He had a lot of attitude in the beginning too. Now he's as sweet as pie until feeding time, then he turns into a rat terminator :).

[sharthun]

if the hot side was too hot wouldn't the snake be on the cool side not the hot side? ive never used thermostats for any of my reptiles and never had any problems. the deli cup method usually has better results than just putting it in the cage and the breeder recommends the deli cup method and to try again tomorrow... this is just a baby snake though only 6 1/2" long and I received him 10/7 and have no idea when it last ate. I would love to avoid force feeding at all costs!!

The deli cup works great and I have used that technique for young snakes. Without a thermostat you have no control over the heat and temps. It also depends on what you are measuring the temps with. A good digital thermometer or infrared temp gun is what I use and recommend for measuring temps.I don't know what kind of thermometer you are using.

[kuester]

just a exo terra dial for temp and humidity but I lay it on the substrate to get the floor temp. the temps don't fluctuate at all theyre consistent and theres only one heat setting. the breeder says this snake will only last a few weeks without feeding.... its already been a few weeks. I really don't know what to do... I received my sand boa and hognose together but theyre like opposite, boas quiet, friendly and eats good. I don't use a thermostat for the sand boa and theyre supposed to be pickier than hognoses, my boa has a heat pad though and hognose has ceramic heat emitter because bottom of his cage cracked from a heat pad, I resealed it with a aquarium silicone but wont attempt to put a heat pad on it again.

[kuester]

also the breeder is instructing me to put the snake in warm water twice a wee, id consider that handling though, he says doesn't matter its more important to keep the snake hydrated, but he has a water dish if he needs it. any advice?

[Cmwells90]

It sounds like the temps are way too high, if the snake is regurgitating, it could be because of the high heat and the food is spoiling in his stomach because it's decomposing faster than it can be digested. I keep my heat at 90 for my hognose, and they need LOTS of shrubery so they can feel secure because they are so small. Also I saw a post about feeding less often, this isn't the case with Hognose because they have such a high matabolism, they need to be fed every 2-3 days as babies and 3-5 days as adults, usually with smaller meals. As it has been mentioned, getting a thermostat is a great idea and you can even find effect ones that aren't too expensive, like Hydrofarm.

However I will mention this, because they are day snakes, they are sensitive to the changes in light from summer to winter, and in winter they normally go off feeding for some time, my hognose just ate yesterday after 2 months of refusing, just keep trying, keep the temps and conditions right, and he'll eat when he's ready, but lots of foliage is a must, otherwise, they'll be too scared to eat because they are so vulnerable while eating.

Hope this helps.

[sharthun]

IMO, i wouldn't listen to your breeder's advice. There is no need to soak your snake provided he has a water dish. 1. You have to get the husbandry right and 2.the snake needs to feel secure with adequate cover/hides. When these conditions are met your snake will eat. At least 3 of us agree that your temps are too high. Good luck!

[kuester]

the hot side is now at 90. I have him in a 10g now with 3 toilet paper tubes, a log hide, a water dish, a treasure chest, he doesn't even use his hides he lays direct against the glass... do you think my hognose is going to die? :( I cover his deli cup so its secluded and dark when I try feeding him, the only light he gets is from the small window in the room. he has only ate once and that was when he regurgitated. so cmwells90 do you think I should try feeding tomorrow or no?

[Cmwells90]

If he's regurgitated recently then I would give him about 3 or 4 days to relax, it can take a toll on the snake and trying to feed again may get the same results. I wouldn't worry about him dying though, a few weeks wont hurt, one of my Hognose is only about 4 months old and he just went a month without feeding, so you'll be fine. Like I said this may be normal because of the winter months, so he may just not be eating due to seasonal effects, all you can do is continue to offer food and meet the conditions, but I don't think he's at risk of dying because of this.

[kuester]

he regurgitated on 10/14. I tried feeding him 10/24, 11/2 and 11/3. hes thin and it makes me worry. I got him on 10/7 and he hasn't eaten for me ever! :( not sure when the breeder last fed him that's why im worrying

[EL Ziggy]

No need to panic. You're on the right track kuester. I think it was a good job lowering your temps a little. What's your cool side like with the smaller enclosure? Can you post pics of the snake and set up? I'd get the t-stat asap and wait him out for a couple of more weeks. If he refused today try him again in 5-7 days with the deli cup and every 5-7 days thereafter until he catches on. If he refuses 2 or 3 more times consecutively you could try a live feeder. Do you know how old he is?

[kuester]

hot side is 91 cool side 73. I don't have a camera or a camera phone, so I cant post pics... I did walk into the reptile room this morning though and he as soaking and drinking water! I haven't seen him do that yet, so that made me smile. hes still hissy and lunging though. ill ask the breeder if they know his hatch date and last fed date. hes not very old though, hes only 6 1/2" and about the width of a pencil.

[kuester]

when I do the deli cup should I keep the cup on the hot side, cool side or the middle of enclosure? I usually have it on the hot side. how long does it take a baby snake to grow up if eating properly?

[Cmwells90]

Honestly this is going to be something you'll get use to, them going off feeding. It's just a thing some snakes do. As for the hissing and lunging that's completely normal, he's trying to look scary so you wont bother him, if he's in a glass aquarium I would advise covering 3/4 sides with paper towels or something, it helps them because they're not visible from all sides. I would offer food every 3-4 days, but don't offer every day, he needs time to relax and not be scared, which is probably why he's not eating, stress. It doesn't really matter what side the deli cup is on, it probably wont make a difference. As long as your temps are correct and your set up is good, then it's only a matter of time till he eats. I would just let him be for a few days, and try to feed him Saturday, leave him be and let him relax, then try, if he doesn't eat, do it again, leave him alone and try again. If he's in a busy part of your house you might want to try relocating him to a less active area, at least till he grows up. Once he starts eating he'll grow pretty quickly, they reach their adult size after 3-4 years, good luck, lemme know how it turns out.

[kuester]

my adult corn eats 2 small rats every week and a half, and baby sand boa is eating every four days or so. I have a towel draped over half the cage but hes always on the open side laying against the front side of glass. should I try feeding him today? or no just try Saturday? breeder thinks I should try today. I know hes not eating because of stress but im confused as to why hes still stressed... :( well I currently understand its because I switched cages yesterday. hes in my reptile room I go in there a few times everyday to check if cages are soiled, monitor temps, humidity, check on all the reptiles, ect. also do you think I should try splitting the pinkie mice down the middle and just try feeding him half a pinkie?

[kuester]

so I put my hognose in his deli cup just now 10pm 11/7 and will remove him 930am tomorrow(11/8) I split a pinkie down the middle im hoping and praying he eats tonight. after a month of having him and him not eating im very concerned. im worried he will die if he doesn't start eating soon! a month without eating is a long time for a 6 1/2" snake that should be eating every 4 days or so! I feel bad picking him up to put him in deli cup as he hisses and lunges and I know he wants to be left alone but I need him to eat I wish he could understand that im trying to help him for the better... do you think he'll die soon if he doesn't start eating? Im guessing its been about 42 days since his last meal but im not sure cause the breeder discards those records when the snake is sold...

[kuester]

sigh he did not eat again... :( I fear the worst for my baby... I will try again in 5 days if hes still alive :'(

[EL Ziggy]

Try offering a live pinky. That might get him going.

[kuester]

no where around here sells live pinkies...

[Snakeguy5]

My $0.02 -

First of all, I wouldn't sell a hog that had only eaten twice, unless it was to an experienced hognose keeper. Most breeders usually say 5-10 feeds.

If the snake is in a 10g that may still be to big for it. Try something like a small Kritter Keeper cage or even a small plastic food container with air holes.
Put the hot spot somewhere between 90-95 degrees. They like it hot, a hot spot temp in the 80s is not warm enough and they will only eat once in a while if even eat at all.

Don't try to feed again for a few days. Then try feeding him in the cage. You can put the mouse on a piece of paper towel, newspaper, cardboard, etc so the snake won't eat any substrate. If he doesn't eat, then try some different tricks: You can leave him without water for several days then offer him a wet mouse, or try scenting with sardine, tuna, salmon, Vienna sausage, frog, toad, lizard, or boil an egg and give him some of the whites and if he eats that then scent the mouse with it the next time.

If he looks dehydrated, put him in a deli cup with moist paper towels overnight.

Also, if it's only been around 42 days since he ate, he should still be fine. I have a hog that when I acquired her had only eaten twice in six months. She ate first try for me with a scented mouse and hasn't stopped since. Now, all snakes are different and I don't know how long your hog can go without food, but he should still be fine for a little while at least.

Hope this helps, and hopefully he'll eat for you soon.

[kuester]

really? so you think I should bring that up to the breeder? how can I heat just one side of a tiny enclosure? would it be safe to put him in another new cage? thatll be 3 cages then since I got him... his hot spot is 92 and cool side is 74. should I move him into a smaller enclosure today then try to feed him in 3 days in the tiny cage? snakes can eat egg whites? strange im willing to try anything to keep him alive but id like a step by step process. thank you for reassuring me he wont die like this week or anything.

[LiL Zap]

I was told by the breeder to have a basking heat of 95 and cool side at 84. ive never fed a snake in its cage because I don't want to accidentally get bit trying to pick them up, I have aspen bedding and have no idea how to feed a snake in its cage. when I walk into the reptile room hes already hissing, puffing up and lunging(mouth closed) in random directions... which I feel means hes not secure in the cage. the breeder says if he doesn't eat within the next 7 days I will have to force feed with a pinkie pump, basically turning the pinkie into jam and forcing it down the snakes throat. however I want friendly snakes and I feel this process would contradict that. also snakes at this size/age should be eating about twice a week...
This is outdated information. You might as well feed your little guy in his enclosure. I've fed my snakes in enclosures and never got bit because of it.

[kuester]

tomorrow im going to try the egg whites, if that works ill be very happy if it doesn't I will try the tuna method if that doesn't work I wont have high hopes for his survival unless I force feed... which id rather avoid.