Keeping Copperheads

[Derek1]

Y'all had any success? It's the most common Venomous found in my parts. I was thinking about collecting a wild caught. Yes, I know I know need a license/permit.

[MDT]

What kind of health insurance do you have? How's the deductible? Serious question. If your answer is "no insurance"...don't keep venomous snakes. If you have a ridiculous deductible, make sure you can cover it if you're bitten, because you will need it.

Yes, I am a physician (ER doc)...I've treated tons of snake bites. CroFab is freaking expensive, and honestly, I don't want to subsidize anyone's accident. If you can't pay for your potential bad outcomes, avoid them. Even if you do not require CroFab, your ED visit will be several thousand dollars....

I know, you won't get bit... It's always the other guy...

In all seriousness Derek, I'm not busting on you per se, just be careful and really plan ahead for any possible accident.

[Georgia]

Copperheads are damn near impossible to kill. Extremely easy to keep, and unless you are stupid should have no issues with them. Good to hear another enthusiast is thinking about coming over to the "Dark Side" of snake keeping.

[Georgia]

The answer to getting bit... stay far enough so you wont get hit. Very simple.

People will say that wont work. Ive kept venomous for 15 yrs and its worked for me this long.

[54bogger]

"coming over to the dark side" That's funny right there!:D

[Derek1]

What kind of health insurance do you have? How's the deductible? Serious question. If your answer is "no insurance"...don't keep venomous snakes. If you have a ridiculous deductible, make sure you can cover it if you're bitten, because you will need it.

Yes, I am a physician (ER doc)...I've treated tons of snake bites. CroFab is freaking expensive, and honestly, I don't want to subsidize anyone's accident. If you can't pay for your potential bad outcomes, avoid them. Even if you do not require CroFab, your ED visit will be several thousand dollars....

I know, you won't get bit... It's always the other guy...

In all seriousness Derek, I'm not busting on you per se, just be careful and really plan ahead for any possible accident.


I do have good insurance. I know 3 people that have been bit by wilds. 1) Dry bite, 2) He said it was like having the flu and he received no anti. 3) Had a bad reaction and was in the hospital for about a week. His CroFab bill was like 30K.

[BIGT FROM F.B.]

I sense a Sh** storm in the making....

[Derek1]

Why? I'm not going to go out tomorrow and get one. Just researching, but I won't turn down a free one as I have my feelers (farmers) to call me if they see one.

[CosmicOwl]

I would absolutely turn down a free copperhead. Figure out the basics of keeping non venomous snakes before think about touching hots.

[MDT]

I do have good insurance. I know 3 people that have been bit by wilds. 1) Dry bite, 2) He said it was like having the flu and he received no anti. 3) Had a bad reaction and was in the hospital for about a week. His CroFab bill was like 30K.

Well then, with that large sampling of study subjects, you're def ready. Enjoy :)

[Derek1]

Guarantee I wouldn't be careless enough to get bit.

[CosmicOwl]

Guarantee I wouldn't be careless enough to get bit.


It happens to the most experienced keepers.

[SSSSnakes]

It happens to the most experienced keepers.

The old saying goes, "It is not if you get bit, but when". But that is changing a lot more now, being we have so much more protective gear and handling equipment. If people choose to use them.

[demonseed]

I raise copperheads also. They are some cool snakes. This is a male I rescued off a job site

[kwhitlock]

Guarantee I wouldn't be careless enough to get bit.

Ever heard of the saying for motorcycle enthusiasts? There's only 2 kinds of riders. Ones that have been down and ones that have yet to go down.

[Aaron_S]

Guarantee I wouldn't be careless enough to get bit.

Famous last words.

That's the arrogance that tells me you don't have the maturity to own one.

Those are harsh words and you'll get your knickers in a knot and say "yeah well I don't have to listen to you!" You'd be correct. You don't have to listen.

I just hope you seriously think about it. I doubt it though considering in one post you said "I'm just doing research" then later on say "I won't pass on a free one though."

[54bogger]

WOW! you really like to complain, the man doesn't even have a venomous snake much less posted a pic and your jumping on him! EH.

[Mikoh4792]

WOW! you really like to complain, the man doesn't even have a venomous snake much less posted a pic and your jumping on him! EH.

He's not complaining, he's advising.

[millertime89]

Ever heard of the saying for motorcycle enthusiasts? There's only 2 kinds of riders. Ones that have been down and ones that have yet to go down.

Yup, unfortunately it's true too.

I'm a big fan of copperheads. If it were legal to own them here I would give serious consideration to it. I think they're gorgeous and are easily my favorite hot that's native to the US.

[Aaron_S]

WOW! you really like to complain, the man doesn't even have a venomous snake much less posted a pic and your jumping on him! EH.

As stated it's advice. It's not a complaint.

Stop judging me! I can do what I want from my igloo!

[Derek1]

Famous last words.

That's the arrogance that tells me you don't have the maturity to own one.

Those are harsh words and you'll get your knickers in a knot and say "yeah well I don't have to listen to you!" You'd be correct. You don't have to listen.

I just hope you seriously think about it. I doubt it though considering in one post you said "I'm just doing research" then later on say "I won't pass on a free one though."

I won't get my knickers in a knot. I like the feedback. I don't pass on anything free.

[pet_snake_78]

Copperheads are cool snakes. I've never kept any venomous snake but I've encountered dozens while field herping. As long as you do not free handle, there is no reason I see for issues. When first uncovered, they are quite taken by surprise and you have plenty of time to move them with appropriate tools. Just keep your body parts safe.

[Will0W783]

I figured I'd chime in here, now that the freehandling storm is over (good riddance to those two....).

I had a pair of gorgeous Southern copperheads for quite some time, until PA changed the way they enforced their native species laws to outlaw ALL species of coppers, even non-native ones. My pair went to a good friend with the native species permits to keep them.

I will say, copperheads generally do not give a fatal bite, and they are very hardy snakes. In those regards, they are "good" first venomous. However, I found them to be extremely nervous, jumpy, flighty snakes. Also, although they will not kill you, their bites can cause significant necrosis, nerve damage, muscle wasting and arthritis-like joint maladies. A copperhead bite is NOT the insignificant, don't-worry-about-it event that many make it out to be.
I personally would not recommend them as a first hot, for several reasons. One, the venom has a better-than-not chance of causing lasting, if not permanent, damage. Two, they are generally fast and nervous, so they are apt to have at you. Three, CroFab is insanely expensive, far more so than the foreign antivenins.

If this is THE species you're intent on getting as a first, I won't discourage you. I just urge you to do enough research and hook training that you are well-prepared to handle a spastic, strong snake fighting to get away from you.

I personally think white-lipped tree vipers, eyelash vipers, or coral cobras make better early venomous species. The white-lippeds and coral cobras have very mild venom, and the eyelash are easy to hook, although they do have a significant bite.

As for the debate about getting bitten, there is NO sure way to say you will never get bitten. Even with proper training, experience, and safety gear things can happen. I personally know people who have worked with hots for decades and never taken a bite, but I also know many who are missing parts of fingers, have gorped up hands, etc, from multiple bites.

My story- I have been working with venomous snakes for 4.5 years now. I have kept snakes for over 9 years. I worked my way up slowly, from pythons and boas, to fast angry colubrids, to arboreal pythons/boas, to "warm" rear-fanged species, and finally to arboreal venomous, before branching out to some terrestrial hots.
I use, and very heavily recommend, Hex-Armor Hercules NSR gloves. These are the "Venom Defender" gloves, but much less expensive because they are marketed to medical personnel who deal with sharps. You will need to buy the gloves (~ $130-150) plus arm guard gauntlets (~$30-50) because they stopped manufacturing the long gauntlet gloves I own. Now the long version gloves are only sold as Venom Defenders for a hefty markup.

I owned a yearling white-lipped tree viper female. She was sold to me as eating, and with the size on her, I knew she was. She was about as thick as a ring finger, and 8-10 inches long. She would NOT eat for me. No matter what I did- live ,fresh killed, f/t, mouse, gecko, rat parts, tease feed....etc. After three and a half months, she was losing weight and not looking so swift, so in desperation I decided to assist feed her. I could not wear my HexArmor gloves with her because she was too small. The first two times went fine. The third time, she went ballistic, and shot out of her cage the moment I opened the lid. She got on the floor and I quickly pinned her head with a hook. I reached down very quickly to get her behind the jaws, but somehow she manged to get her head turned just enough to nail me on the side of my index finger. I didn't even feel it- I just saw it happen. I tossed her back in her cage and squeezed my finger- two litter blood spots. I was so scared. I called a friend who had experience with their venom and fortunately I had an easy time of it. My fingertip, just the first knuckle, started swelling after an hour and swelled about twice its normal size. The swelling went down after 3 hours and was completely gone in 5. I had a tiny, hard, prickly lump where her fang went in for about 3 weeks, but no lasting damage. I now own thick leather gardening gloves for dealing with any babies I might need to forcefeed.

Point is- I'm VERY careful. I have had 2 years of mentorship. I own all the right safety equipment, and use it whenever I can to the greatest extent that I can. I was still bitten. Fortunately it was a baby of a very mild species. I was extremely lucky and I pray that this is the only bite experience I will ever have.

Confidence and calmness are key when working safely with venomous, but it's a very fine line between confidence and cockiness. Confidence keeps you relaxed and helps you keep your snakes relaxed too. Cockiness makes you careless and will get you killed.

I hope this helps. Any questions you might have, feel free to PM/email me.

[SSSSnakes]

I figured I'd chime in here, now that the freehandling storm is over (good riddance to those two....).

I had a pair of gorgeous Southern copperheads for quite some time, until PA changed the way they enforced their native species laws to outlaw ALL species of coppers, even non-native ones. My pair went to a good friend with the native species permits to keep them.

I will say, copperheads generally do not give a fatal bite, and they are very hardy snakes. In those regards, they are "good" first venomous. However, I found them to be extremely nervous, jumpy, flighty snakes. Also, although they will not kill you, their bites can cause significant necrosis, nerve damage, muscle wasting and arthritis-like joint maladies. A copperhead bite is NOT the insignificant, don't-worry-about-it event that many make it out to be.
I personally would not recommend them as a first hot, for several reasons. One, the venom has a better-than-not chance of causing lasting, if not permanent, damage. Two, they are generally fast and nervous, so they are apt to have at you. Three, CroFab is insanely expensive, far more so than the foreign antivenins.

If this is THE species you're intent on getting as a first, I won't discourage you. I just urge you to do enough research and hook training that you are well-prepared to handle a spastic, strong snake fighting to get away from you.

I personally think white-lipped tree vipers, eyelash vipers, or coral cobras make better early venomous species. The white-lippeds and coral cobras have very mild venom, and the eyelash are easy to hook, although they do have a significant bite.

As for the debate about getting bitten, there is NO sure way to say you will never get bitten. Even with proper training, experience, and safety gear things can happen. I personally know people who have worked with hots for decades and never taken a bite, but I also know many who are missing parts of fingers, have gorped up hands, etc, from multiple bites.

My story- I have been working with venomous snakes for 4.5 years now. I have kept snakes for over 9 years. I worked my way up slowly, from pythons and boas, to fast angry colubrids, to arboreal pythons/boas, to "warm" rear-fanged species, and finally to arboreal venomous, before branching out to some terrestrial hots.
I use, and very heavily recommend, Hex-Armor Hercules NSR gloves. These are the "Venom Defender" gloves, but much less expensive because they are marketed to medical personnel who deal with sharps. You will need to buy the gloves (~ $130-150) plus arm guard gauntlets (~$30-50) because they stopped manufacturing the long gauntlet gloves I own. Now the long version gloves are only sold as Venom Defenders for a hefty markup.

I owned a yearling white-lipped tree viper female. She was sold to me as eating, and with the size on her, I knew she was. She was about as thick as a ring finger, and 8-10 inches long. She would NOT eat for me. No matter what I did- live ,fresh killed, f/t, mouse, gecko, rat parts, tease feed....etc. After three and a half months, she was losing weight and not looking so swift, so in desperation I decided to assist feed her. I could not wear my HexArmor gloves with her because she was too small. The first two times went fine. The third time, she went ballistic, and shot out of her cage the moment I opened the lid. She got on the floor and I quickly pinned her head with a hook. I reached down very quickly to get her behind the jaws, but somehow she manged to get her head turned just enough to nail me on the side of my index finger. I didn't even feel it- I just saw it happen. I tossed her back in her cage and squeezed my finger- two litter blood spots. I was so scared. I called a friend who had experience with their venom and fortunately I had an easy time of it. My fingertip, just the first knuckle, started swelling after an hour and swelled about twice its normal size. The swelling went down after 3 hours and was completely gone in 5. I had a tiny, hard, prickly lump where her fang went in for about 3 weeks, but no lasting damage. I now own thick leather gardening gloves for dealing with any babies I might need to forcefeed.

Point is- I'm VERY careful. I have had 2 years of mentorship. I own all the right safety equipment, and use it whenever I can to the greatest extent that I can. I was still bitten. Fortunately it was a baby of a very mild species. I was extremely lucky and I pray that this is the only bite experience I will ever have.

Confidence and calmness are key when working safely with venomous, but it's a very fine line between confidence and cockiness. Confidence keeps you relaxed and helps you keep your snakes relaxed too. Cockiness makes you careless and will get you killed.

I hope this helps. Any questions you might have, feel free to PM/email me.

Nice story and very appropriate. That is how I received my one and only venomous bite. I was trying to assist feed a Crotalus atrox and tried to short cut a safety procedure, when the snake was able to sink one of it's fangs into my thumb. My thumb is now permanently deformed from the damage. I now never short cut safety procedures and know a bite can happen to me.

[Akuma223]

What is your opinion on viperkeeper? Do you think he does a good job?

[SSSSnakes]

What is your opinion on viperkeeper? Do you think he does a good job?

That is Willow's Mentor. I have heard Kim say that he does things that he has told her not to do. He is experienced and does thing I would not do, but it works for him. Everyone has their own methods that work for them. Some people don't like the way I handle my snakes, and they have the right to their wrong opinion. LOL

No disrespect intended Kim.

[Will0W783]

I like viperkeeper very much. He's a knowledge guy; he does take some liberties I wouldn't but he also has decades more experience than I do. He did a wonderful job of honing my skills and teaching me, and for that I'll always be greatful.
I don't agree with everything he says/does, but I don't completely agree with pretty much anyone!

[Will0W783]

Jerry, I don't care how anyone handles their animals in their home. What I hate is when people parade dangerous techniques in public. ;)

[kwhitlock]

Really glad you chimned in Willow, was waiting for you to post something on this! Great story and great info. Jerry as well, guys show the respect that you have to have for hots and the dangers that can come with it if you are not careful.

[Primal Rage]

I would go with a copperhead, a pygmy rattler, or my personal fav a coral cobra for a first hot. Here is some food for thought from keepers who specialize in hots.. VenomousReptiles.org Survey Home (http://www.venomousreptiles.org/survey/119)

[toddnbecka]

To each their own, but personally I'd never keep a venomous snake. Gotta consider the danger to myself, family, dogs, and even neighbors in the event of an escape. With all the great non-venomous options available that aren't potentially deadly what's the point? If you're doing it professionally that's another matter, but no way just as a hobby or a pet.
Back in my teens I imagined that keeping a Komodo dragon would be really cool. Even asked about it at the local pet shop (not realizing that they're a protected species) and I was asked "Why would you want something that's more dangerous than a crocodile?" Come to think of it, even Steve Irwin never tackled one of those...

[CosmicOwl]

Coral cobras seem really cool to me. If I ever keep venomous snakes, I think they'll be at the type of my list.

[pet_snake_78]

Some of the coolest looking snakes are venomous though! I would own them inspite of the venomous factor, not because of it! However, in my state that's not possible and the rest of the family would never go for it. I do enjoy the pics others post.

[SSSSnakes]

Gotta consider the danger to myself, family, dogs, and even neighbors in the event of an escape.

Almost every area has some sort of venomous snakes native to it. One or even a couple escaped venomous snake is not going to terrorize the neighborhood. There is little to no chance that these snakes are going to breed and create a new population. Normally the only danger is to the keeper of these snakes and possibly anyone living in the house.

[Aaron_S]

Almost every area has some sort of venomous snakes native to it. One or even a couple escaped venomous snake is not going to terrorize the neighborhood. There is little to no chance that these snakes are going to breed and create a new population. Normally the only danger is to the keeper of these snakes and possibly anyone living in the house.

That depends on the Country and state you live in, no?

I don't know of any venomous snakes native to Hawaii. There's only 2 in Canada and they have specific areas.

If any venomous snake got out it's not the chance of them creating a new population. You would be correct there. However, I'd be more afraid of one of these snakes going into the pipes/drainage. It wouldn't be the first time it's ever happened.

[SSSSnakes]

That depends on the Country and state you live in, no?

I don't know of any venomous snakes native to Hawaii. There's only 2 in Canada and they have specific areas.

If any venomous snake got out it's not the chance of them creating a new population. You would be correct there. However, I'd be more afraid of one of these snakes going into the pipes/drainage. It wouldn't be the first time it's ever happened.

That is why I said almost.

[toddnbecka]

Almost every area has some sort of venomous snakes native to it. One or even a couple escaped venomous snake is not going to terrorize the neighborhood. There is little to no chance that these snakes are going to breed and create a new population. Normally the only danger is to the keeper of these snakes and possibly anyone living in the house.
Indeed, there are copperheads that turn up occasionally, but not inside the house...
I did hear something about an albino cobra loose in a CA neighborhood a couple months ago that bit someone's dog. Would have been much worse if it had been a child. I'm not saying it's likely, but it could happen, and I wouldn't want to be the one responsible for the incident.

[SSSSnakes]

Indeed, there are copperheads that turn up occasionally, but not inside the house...
I did hear something about an albino cobra loose in a CA neighborhood a couple months ago that bit someone's dog. Would have been much worse if it had been a child. I'm not saying it's likely, but it could happen, and I wouldn't want to be the one responsible for the incident.

One cobra loose in Cal., in a state that has venomous snakes native to it, and yet everyone survived. The story was only aired because people hate snakes. Asia has cobras native and yet they still survive. Lets look at the statistic of how many pet venomous snake get loose and kill someone, compared to how many horses or dogs that kill people and I think you will find that the numbers snakes are irrelevant. All I hear is a lot of what if or could, but no proof.

[Primal Rage]

One cobra loose in Cal., in a state that has venomous snakes native to it, and yet everyone survived. The story was only aired because people hate snakes. Asia has cobras native and yet they still survive. Lets look at the statistic of how many pet venomous snake get loose and kill someone, compared to how many horses or dogs that kill people and I think you will find that the numbers snakes are irrelevant. All I hear is a lot of what if or could, but no proof.

Excellent point!

[IW17]

One cobra loose in Cal., in a state that has venomous snakes native to it, and yet everyone survived. The story was only aired because people hate snakes. Asia has cobras native and yet they still survive. Lets look at the statistic of how many pet venomous snake get loose and kill someone, compared to how many horses or dogs that kill people and I think you will find that the numbers snakes are irrelevant. All I hear is a lot of what if or could, but no proof.

I agree 100%, but since when has common sense and logic stopped the media and ignorant masses from fear mongering and twisting up the facts. Cars kill an average of 40,000 people a year in the US alone, yet no one blinks an eye putting their children in a vehicle. But the mere mention of a large or venomous snake sends people into a tizzy.

[toddnbecka]

Same deal with shark attacks, a swimmer bitten by a shark is headline news, yet thousands of people hit the beach (and the water) every day.

[Aaron_S]

One cobra loose in Cal., in a state that has venomous snakes native to it, and yet everyone survived. The story was only aired because people hate snakes. Asia has cobras native and yet they still survive. Lets look at the statistic of how many pet venomous snake get loose and kill someone, compared to how many horses or dogs that kill people and I think you will find that the numbers snakes are irrelevant. All I hear is a lot of what if or could, but no proof.

You're welcome to pull up the statistics of all the deaths in Africa and Asia from the small rural towns where these snakes are able to get into people's huts.

I get your logic with dogs/horses but you're not comparing apples to apples. You're bringing up animals that are around people a whole lot more than snakes. Further to this, how many "escaped horses" are killing or injuring people? Just about the same as escaped snakes.

[SSSSnakes]

You're welcome to pull up the statistics of all the deaths in Africa and Asia from the small rural towns where these snakes are able to get into people's huts.

I get your logic with dogs/horses but you're not comparing apples to apples. You're bringing up animals that are around people a whole lot more than snakes. Further to this, how many "escaped horses" are killing or injuring people? Just about the same as escaped snakes.

First off we are talking about pet snakes getting loose, not native snakes. I live in the USA were we have houses and don't live in rural huts were animals can enter freely.

Secondly you are correct that people are not around snakes as much as other animals, so this makes them even less of a threat to people. And you are also correct in saying how many escaped horses are killing people, about the same as escaped snakes, next to none. But how many pet venomous snakes kill people compared to pet horses? I'm quite sure a lot more. Remember a horse took out Superman. (Last comment in bad taste, but true).

[Aaron_S]

First off we are talking about pet snakes getting loose, not native snakes. I live in the USA were we have houses and don't live in rural huts were animals can enter freely.

Secondly you are correct that people are not around snakes as much as other animals, so this makes them even less of a threat to people. And you are also correct in saying how many escaped horses are killing people, about the same as escaped snakes, next to none. But how many pet venomous snakes kill people compared to pet horses? I'm quite sure a lot more. Remember a horse took out Superman. (Last comment in bad taste, but true).

I can pull up instances too where people were injured by snakes. Reeves was injured not killed by a horse. Two boys died last year.

You brought up the idea that people in Asia survive living with native venomous snakes and it isn't what danger it's cracked up to be. I countered that with many people still die from bites in Asia and Africa.

Again, you're not comparing apples to apples. Pet horses are more common than pet venomous snakes. Plenty of people have been bitten and died from venomous snakes. If the numbers went up so would the injuries. I got a scathing e-mail from a family member of the older gentleman who was bit a year or two ago by one of his venomous snakes. He hadn't been bit in all the years he had been working with them. He wasn't a novice either.

My point is yes the danger isn't around every corner and each snake isn't out killing someone. However, the danger isn't as non chalant as many venomous keepers claim it be.

No matter what. Bringing a venomous snake into a home, native or otherwise, puts a greater risk on anyone living in the home and around it because THINGS CAN HAPPEN. You cannot say with any degree of certainty that a venomous snake can't get out and somehow end up in a situation with a neighbourhood child. Is it a low risk? Yes, but it's still a risk.

[Georgia]

We can go on and on about snakes and how dangerous venomous snakes are. The snake itself isnt the danger, it's the keeper. The same goes for large constrictors... the venomous snake can bite you, but what about those that can Eat you? It's nonsense to debate about something that neither of you can win. Keep whatever you want and enjoy and preserve the animal.

Furthermore, preserve your right to keep said animal.

[Will0W783]

Originally posted by Georgia: We can go on and on about snakes and how dangerous venomous snakes are. The snake itself isnt the danger, it's the keeper. The same goes for large constrictors.


Excellent post Georgia!

The vast majority of times, the venomous snakes we keep pose a danger only to us and the other people living in our house. If they escaped, most non-native venomous would not survive more than a few days, especially in the northern areas of the country. It's simply too cold for them, and they are not used to the native parasites and viruses. However, it's the keeper's responsibility to ensure safety is maintained. An irresponsible keeper is like an irresponsible gun owner- you are entrusted with ownership of a very dangerous item; and if you are careless it could result in your death or another's death.

I do not think that private ownership of venomous snakes should be banned. They are truly amazing animals, and private keepers have maintained some very clean bloodlines of otherwise rare, even endangered, species. Many people owning and working with species also helps us learn about their behavior, requirements, etc. However, I do not think that just anyone should be allowed to own them. You can't drive a car without a license; you can't own a gun without a background check and license.....why should it be different with a dangerous wild animal? Most exotic mammals that pose a danger to humans require licensing and training to own- venomous snakes and large constrictors should too.

[Aaron_S]

Excellent post Georgia!

The vast majority of times, the venomous snakes we keep pose a danger only to us and the other people living in our house. If they escaped, most non-native venomous would not survive more than a few days, especially in the northern areas of the country. It's simply too cold for them, and they are not used to the native parasites and viruses. However, it's the keeper's responsibility to ensure safety is maintained. An irresponsible keeper is like an irresponsible gun owner- you are entrusted with ownership of a very dangerous item; and if you are careless it could result in your death or another's death.

I do not think that private ownership of venomous snakes should be banned. They are truly amazing animals, and private keepers have maintained some very clean bloodlines of otherwise rare, even endangered, species. Many people owning and working with species also helps us learn about their behavior, requirements, etc. However, I do not think that just anyone should be allowed to own them. You can't drive a car without a license; you can't own a gun without a background check and license.....why should it be different with a dangerous wild animal? Most exotic mammals that pose a danger to humans require licensing and training to own- venomous snakes and large constrictors should too.

I'm not against properly regulated venomous ownership. I'm not trying to win anything here.

I'm stating that there's more risk than it's lead to believe to most others. Yes 99% of the time keeping a venomous snake is only a danger to the keeper and who decides to live in the same house. The other 1% are the firefighters, paramedics, other visiting family or neighbours or whomever may come near where the snake might be. Yes it's still a danger and a risk that must be thought about when someone decides to own a venomous snake.

That's my entire point. Trust me, it isn't ALWAYS considered no matter how common sense it may seem to be. Plenty of cases of seeing pics of venomous snakes kept in apartments or homes that are attached/sub units.

[SSSSnakes]

Nit picking. Again what if and could be. Starting to sound like the plot to a bad snake movie. LOL

[Georgia]

As soon as anyone mentions keeping venomous, the opposition rears its ugly head. Hell, with snake keepers against it who needs legislation? ??

[Will0W783]

I don't think that Aaron is against people keeping venomous snakes; I just think that he feels there should be more regulation than there is. I can agree to a certain point. I do think that some states (i.e., my own) are way too lax. Anyone here over the age of 18 can legally purchase and own a venomous snake, regardless of their skill level. I've seen absolute idiots try to buy cobras and Gaboons at the shows all the time. Usually the vendors are careful not to let anyone get a snake they cannot handle, but the less scrupulous ones will sell to anyone with dough.

I personally love Florida's system. You need to complete 1000 hours of training with state-recognized, qualified mentor, then prove that you have proper facilities and caging for the animals. Then you get a license. You have to maintain the license, and errors or irresponsible keeping can result in your license getting revoked. I think that's a wonderful system of ensuring that the dedicated, serious individuals can own the animals they love, but preventing "idiots" from getting in over their heads and getting themselves, or others, killed.

[Georgia]

The issue imo is that its to strict.

[Georgia]

State laws mean nothing. If someone wants a snake, they can get it regardless of the laws.

[MDT]

State laws mean nothing. If someone wants a snake, they can get it regardless of the laws.

when you outlaw snakes...then only outlaws will have snakes...no wait...you can have my snake when you pry it from my cold, dead, hands.....no...wait......


:D

[IW17]

Lol oh lord that's a funny twist on an old debate. As far as Florida's system, I only see one flaw. It keeps people from acquiring a permit if they don't have a mentor in the area. I realize that someone should have training, but it's kind of a kick in the teeth to someone who might live too far from a specialist who is willing to educate them and help get their hours. I have a buddy in Florida who keeps hots. He knows his stuff but has set up his enclosures so he literally never has to handle his snakes unless for medical reasons. His enclosures have two swinging doors, and a slot for a divider. He inserts the divider on feeding day, cleaning the side of the enclosure that the snake isn't on. Then when he's finished, puts food into the clean side, closes the door and removes the divider. When the snakes moves to the other side, he puts the divider back in, opens the other door and cleans the opposite side. It's a pretty slick system. His way ensures he doesn't have unnecessary contact with the animals. He just views them and appreciates their natural beauty. Oh and all of his enclosures have locks.

[pet_snake_78]

1,000 hours might be over the top considering you can buy dangerous weapons and operate extremely dangerous vehicles with far less training. I think a permit system is the way to go and some education should be required along with a hands on class, but I think 1000 is probably too much and will act to prevent deserving people from getting permits.