Licensing questions?

[Nick V]

So as some of you may know I keep womas and a blackheaded python, but I have a ton of experience with other various species of reptiles and amphibians. Right now I am working with these pythons, fire salamanders, mole salamanders, Chinese box turtles, and Florida box turtles. I also have a huge sulcata tortoise that looks like a dinosaur and is pretty cool to have around the kids in my family. Anyway, right now I am currently living on campus at college in southeastern Pennsylvania, but my family and most of my animals are back home in Jersey. I go home A LOT to monitor my animals my father helps out with and I try to make sure they are being cared for correctly. I know NJ has different laws as far as permits go but I am confused with both that and the USDA licensing listed online. The problem I am having is how to go about acquiring licenses with fear of our government, and it is kind of keeping me at bay with asking NJ Fish and Wildlife any questions. I mean there was a lady whose monk parakeet was euthanized because she wasn't supposed to have it in PA due to an illogical law put into place, so I don't want anything similar happening to me for having "illegal" animals.

I want to get my animals licensed so they don't get taken away, given I love all of them and that some of the animals I have are kind of pricey and rare, and I've had some of them for many years. I also want to breed my womas and sell the offspring this year and hopefully some other species. I know I need a hobby permit for all my animals but to get that you need to tell them specifically where you acquired your animals from and I just don't remember who the hell I got some of these guys from years ago when I was a kid. I was also considering doing educational demonstrations with my animals to educate kids at schools or via birthday parties, so I would need a class C license which doesn't have a set price and the government has to come in and inspect my collection. There is also no set price on class B or A, it just says it varies with a range of prices on the usda website here: http://www.aphis.usda.gov/animal_welfare/downloads/aw/awlicreg.pdf

So does anyone know how to get a permit for so many animals and not get in trouble? Also I can only be a hobby breeder if I have a gross sales of $500, but I heard if it recoups the costs of maintaining your animals you don't need a Class A license, but I'm thinking that isn't true despite my $1,000's spent on my animals over the years. Also, should I even bother with being an exhibitor since I have to be inspected? I was thinking it would be a good way to make money and work with the animals I love, and also teach kids at an early age to respect these animals and teach them some useful information about them. But I prefer the government staying the hell out of my home, not that these animals aren't well cared for it just seems like a hassle. I am very experienced but not in getting permits/licenses, I only have had permits for dart frogs I used to keep which are now expired. I know a lot of people don't get licensed but I definitely need to be, with what I have and what I want to do, given that I eventually want to make some money with my animals. If not to make a profit but just to supplement the cost of maintenance, I hope I have success with my animals and care about them enough to finally follow the laws needed to prevent anything happening to me, and more importantly them. My father has felt no need to go about getting permits, and sort of kept talking me out of it for years, but I am sort of going against his belief of "nothing is going to happen" now, so any input or advice on my situation would be greatly appreciated.

[Nick V]

I sort of mixed up the words permit and license in here and can't edit it, but I think you guys can get the message.

[EL Ziggy]

I have no clue but I hope you find your answers. Best wishes.

[Fender137]

I would talk to knowledgeable lawyer about the legal practices of what you are tying to achieve, I don't think a lot of people on here are going to truly know the legal regulation's within your state as much as a lawyer in your state would. Especially if you thinking about making a living from it. Do some talking around your area, searching, I'm sure some local private owned pet/exotic shops, someone that deals with a lot of animals, would probably have a better idea with legal practices. But yea, rather this was helpful or not lol, coming from a dude that just joined this forum 5 min's ago i don't have a clue either. Im sure there are some guru's in this forum that will chime in.

[Zoo Nanny]

Why not go right to the source for your information. I think you would find the field officers in your area would be more than willing to explain the process and regulations to you. You will also need to check the laws in your town and county. You could start by inquiring about what is needed prior to setting up an educational program. Do some research before you go so that you would have the information in hand concerning insurance, bonding and any other business related processes needed.
A good source for information in your state would be other businesses that offer animal educational programs. You may want to look for someone that offers programs away from your area so they don't feel threatened by your business.

[Nick V]

For now I'm more concerned with getting my hobby permits and whatever license/permits required for selling reptiles and amphibians. This is definitely not going to be a living given I'm nearly $100,000 in debt with student loans, so yeah getting a job as an exhibitor would be a good way to make some money but I will be working another job as well. I did call from a friend's phone, because yes I am that paranoid, and the woman I talked to sounded very irritated and told me I needed my temporary pink slips for my animals but I don't have any freakin' pink slips so I just hung up on her since she was too idiotic to understand what I was trying to say and just told me I can't get my permits without them. The problem with not doing the exhibiting in my area is that there are people who are making a living out of it in my area that do a large chunk of area from central to north NJ, so I don't want them to be upset or feel I'm competing with them, it's just that I need cash and enjoy working with my animals. I'm unsure if I will be remaining in NJ or moving out to PA because of the laid back laws and legality of keeping venomous. I'm thinking of shooting someone an email in another state to ask them insurance information and stuff like that but I need to get permits and licenses for selling offspring before I can be an exhibitor. I did talk to my aunt who is a lawyer but out of state, and their laws are really lenient there compared to NJ's Nazi-like laws. I'm hoping someone can chime in from NJ or who does educational demonstrations, but I'm going to try and call again tomorrow. I'm just really cautious and nervous of anything happening to my animals because they're not legal for me to keep without the proper permits. I don't need them being confiscated because I can't do the legal thing when trying to do the legal thing as confusing as that sounds.

[Fender137]

lol sounds like a whole lot of grey areas to me. Granted, I know nothing about animals laws. Maybe there could of been a possibility you were asking the wrong questions to the lady. Did you ask, how to obtain these pink slips?

As far as the competition part, don't get discouraged, Every business has competition. Everybody in general is hungry for money anyways. So look up! don't let the veterans scare you off or influence your visions. If you got the drive, I say do It! Try to be innovative, do things to differentiate yourself from the rest of the crowd.

If you know or if it is your passion to take care animals, thats truly awesome! At least you found what you truly love to do. A ton of people spend the whole lives trying to find that job, that they can truly enjoy on a daily basis. Most never find it, because they either give up on there vision or because of the risks involved, the fear of the unknown, or they adapt/get comfortable with the current bland job and lose the drive to grow themselves to make it happen.

It just the matter of finding/awakening to things that must be done in order for this to work. That fact you called, was the first step. although it may have not seem like it was concrete info, I think Once you really find out, I think naturally you'll just know what needs to be done, the rest will fall into place. Even if it requires sacrificing something you don't want to happen, but if that what it takes, Just do it! Cause you never know until you just bite the bullet and get your feet wet. The law is law, nobody can argue that.

[Nick V]

lol sounds like a whole lot of grey areas to me. Granted, I know nothing about animals laws. Maybe there could of been a possibility you were asking the wrong questions to the lady. Did you ask, how to obtain these pink slips?

As far as the competition part, don't get discouraged, Every business has competition. Everybody in general is hungry for money anyways. So look up! don't let the veterans scare you off or influence your visions. If you got the drive, I say do It! Try to be innovative, do things to differentiate yourself from the rest of the crowd.

If you know or if it is your passion to take care animals, thats truly awesome! At least you found what you truly love to do. A ton of people spend the whole lives trying to find that job, that they can truly enjoy on a daily basis. Most never find it, because they either give up on there vision or because of the risks involved, the fear of the unknown, or they adapt/get comfortable with the current bland job and lose the drive to grow themselves to make it happen.

It just the matter of finding/awakening to things that must be done in order for this to work. That fact you called, was the first step. although it may have not seem like it was concrete info, I think Once you really find out, I think naturally you'll just know what needs to be done, the rest will fall into place. Even if it requires sacrificing something you don't want to happen, but if that what it takes, Just do it! Cause you never know until you just bite the bullet and get your feet wet. The law is law, nobody can argue that.

Thank you for your positive thoughts and input, I'm thinking I still am going to go through with it but maybe stick to the area of PA I'm living in now if I move out here and if I don't then I guess I have some competition haha. But anyways, the pink slips are the temporary slips you get as a 20 day permit when you buy an animal from the pet store. I bought most of my animals either online or at the Hamburg expo, so as far as that goes I'm sure I'll find some New Jersey people who have managed to work around that problem. Hopefully this all goes well and I'll be sure to post how to get around this when I do!