Breeding alternative feeders to supplement diet?

[CosmicOwl]

I'm posting this thread because I've been mulling over an idea in my head. I want to feed my snakes a variety of prey items. Some of them are easy enough to buy, others are not. However, I'm sure that there are a whole host of animals that have never crossed my mind or which simply are not available to the general public. I've begun to wonder what kind of other animals are out there to breed as feeders. It can be a mammal, a bird or a herp as long as it fits a few criteria:

They to be something that isn't readily available as a feeder, or doesn't cost much more than the readily available options. They have to breed well, though not like mice or rats. They have to be about the size of a mouse or small rat, and they can't be poisonous.

Do you guys have any suggestions?

[millertime89]

It depends entirely on what you're feeding. *UNPOPULAR TOPIC ALERT* I know people that breed King Cobras and a few other cannibalistic snake species (womas, blackheads, etc.) and breed corns, balls, and retics specifically to feed the other snakes.

RodentPro pretty much already has all of the commercially viable (easy to breed, easy to care for, produce without much work, in other words CHEAP) options covered.

[CosmicOwl]

The feeders will be for corns/rat snakes. As I said, I'm looking for species that aren't readily available as feeders.

[millertime89]

These are the issues:
doesn't cost much more than the readily available options. They have to breed well, though not like mice or rats.

hence:
RodentPro pretty much already has all of the commercially viable (easy to breed, easy to care for, produce without much work, in other words CHEAP) options covered.

Just like with cars, cheap, fast, reliable, pick two. In this case you want uncommon, warm blooded (to my knowledge corns/rats don't eat cold blooded prey), easy to breed, and breeds enough to make it worth the money/effort to keep around. The only options out there that fit all of the criteria are already readily available, most from RodentPro. You could try African Soft Furs, Hamsters, or Gerbils but they're not exactly uncommon.

[CosmicOwl]

These are the issues:


hence:


Just like with cars, cheap, fast, reliable, pick two. In this case you want uncommon, warm blooded (to my knowledge corns/rats don't eat cold blooded prey), easy to breed, and breeds enough to make it worth the money/effort to keep around. The only options out there that fit all of the criteria are already readily available, most from RodentPro. You could try African Soft Furs, Hamsters, or Gerbils but they're not exactly uncommon.

Well, I'm not looking for just rodents, or even mammals. From what I understand, corn/rat snakes will eat rodents, reptiles, amphibians birds and even eggs in the wild. I'm also not looking for something that has similar production rates as rodents. Just a different type of feeder that breeds well in captivity(meaning they aren't hard to get breeding) and isn't too hard to care for/expensive. I guess if nothing like that exists, then that might be the end of it.

[toddnbecka]

Frogs are probably the easiest and best "alternative" feeder for corn/rat snakes. You can find them in the wild in season, or collect eggs or even tadpoles in the spring if you really want to raise them yourself. Never actually heard of anyone breeding North American frogs in captivity, but it shouldn't be any more difficult than dart frogs aside from the enclosure size. Feeding them would probably be the killer though, would take quite a lot of insects.
Last house we owned had a small concrete pond in the back yard, barely deep enough for water lilies. Every spring a handful of toads would congregate and breed, and eventually there would be tiny little toads hopping on the lily pads as the tadpoles matured. Would have been great for feeding a baby hognose, but I can't imagine it would have been easy to raise dozens (or more) of the wee toads to a larger size.

[shaunyboy]

It depends entirely on what you're feeding. *UNPOPULAR TOPIC ALERT* I know people that breed King Cobras and a few other cannibalistic snake species (womas, blackheads, etc.) and breed corns, balls, and retics specifically to feed the other snakes.

RodentPro pretty much already has all of the commercially viable (easy to breed, easy to care for, produce without much work, in other words CHEAP) options covered.

i have no issue with folk feeding snakes to other snakes,it's mother nature at her finest mate

if i was breeding carpet morphs in high numbers,the first thing i would buy is a Black Headed Python,to feed all the unwanted undesirable siblings to


WILD PREY
as long as they have not been exposed to pesticides etc i would feed wild prey,over here that being,rabbits,hares,squirrels,birds,etc

cheers shaun

[CosmicOwl]

i have no issue with folk feeding snakes to other snakes,it's mother nature at her finest mate

if i was breeding carpet morphs in high numbers,the first thing i would buy is a Black Headed Python,to feed all the unwanted undesirable siblings to


WILD PREY
as long as they have not been exposed to pesticides etc i would feed wild prey,over here that being,rabbits,hares,squirrels,birds,etc

cheers shaun

Wild prey is an interesting subject. I've debated feeding invasive animals like cuban anoles or house sparrows(and their eggs), but there does seem to be the issue of parasites.

[millertime89]

i have no issue with folk feeding snakes to other snakes,it's mother nature at her finest mate

if i was breeding carpet morphs in high numbers,the first thing i would buy is a Black Headed Python,to feed all the unwanted undesirable siblings to

As would I my friend. I have no problem with it but I'm sure there are individuals on this board who do.


WILD PREY
as long as they have not been exposed to pesticides etc i would feed wild prey,over here that being,rabbits,hares,squirrels,birds,etc

cheers shaun

I would agree, the issue here is you can't be 100% sure that wild prey hasn't been exposed to pesticides, especially in the US where nearly everything is sprayed.

[Alexa]

They are't terribly uncommon as a feeder (pretty easy to find to buy) but if you're interested in breeding your own the first thing I would suggest would be coturnix quail. Easy to breed, inexpensive to keep, and the young ones are very appropriately sized for corn and rat snakes. Even the eggs are small enough for the snakes to eat.

And if you're into it, they can be a pretty good food source for people as well!

[bigsnakegirl785]

I'm not sure why you need to have uncommon feeders if there's already several varieties in captivity that are already readily available, and thus cheaper. Rats, mice, rabbits, quail, guinea pigs, fish, ASFs, pigs, etc. Although rabbits, guinea pigs, and pigs would be too big for a corn, of course. There's other things you could use for feeders, but are not going to be as cost effective, such as hamsters, small lizards, frogs, gerbils (unless you can find some at feeder price), and small birds.

Parasites are a high risk in wild caught animals. I once watched a fat grub-like worm crawl out of a mouse I accidentally squashed getting things out of the barn. It was a good 50% of the size of the mouse.

[CosmicOwl]

I'm not sure why you need to have uncommon feeders if there's already several varieties in captivity that are already readily available, and thus cheaper. Rats, mice, rabbits, quail, guinea pigs, fish, ASFs, pigs, etc. Although rabbits, guinea pigs, and pigs would be too big for a corn, of course. There's other things you could use for feeders, but are not going to be as cost effective, such as hamsters, small lizards, frogs, gerbils (unless you can find some at feeder price), and small birds.

Parasites are a high risk in wild caught animals. I once watched a fat grub-like worm crawl out of a mouse I accidentally squashed getting things out of the barn. It was a good 50% of the size of the mouse.

I don't need to; I want to. I may in fact buy some of the various commercially available feeders, but I'm asking for animals that I would have to produce on my own. I know there are plenty of people on this board who breed a variety of animals and I was asking if any of them had suggestions.

My feelings are, with the amount of information we are still learning about reptiles, there might be some merit to feeding a varied diet. In the wild, many snakes will eat whatever they can catch and kill. The nutritional difference between even species of mice can be substantial, let alone the differences between mice and squirrels, or mammals and reptiles or birds. Maybe there is something to a broad spectrum approach?

Wild prey is a different debate, but it's not like it isn't done with other animals such as chameleons or bearded dragons.

[toddnbecka]

Stomach content of prey can be an important part of the natural diet of some animals, but I don't think snakes are in that category. Zoo animals are fed very specific diets according to their nutritional requirements, but I've never heard of them gut-loading rodents of other critters to feed to their snakes.

[shaunyboy]

As would I my friend. I have no problem with it but I'm sure there are individuals on this board who do.


^^^^^
your most likely correct mate...

it always amazes me that folk who keep predators get up in arms,the minute you mention feeding unwanted snakes as prey...

imo its a perfect solution...

make as much morphs and beautiful examples as you desire,while keeping the hobby free of unwanted mongrel siblings




I would agree, the issue here is you can't be 100% sure that wild prey hasn't been exposed to pesticides, especially in the US where nearly everything is sprayed.

for us having such a small country,we have plenty of country side that's free of pesticides

from what ive read,the states don't half love their chemicals (which is a pity mate)


cheers shaun

[Tsubaki]

I agree with most people here commenting, anything cheap or easy is being done already. If you really want to breed something different as a prey animal, that doesn't get too expensive. How about Degu's? They're the right size feeder, with a low body fat content compared to rats or mice. Excellent as variation.

Why are they so far not popular as feeders? They breed easy but slightly slower than other rodents (3-10 babies per female per litter) They need food with a low nutrients value (Or they will get fat, stop reproducing, and die) And they destroy any wood and even flat surfaced plastic enclosure, so something chew resistant like glass is required to keep them. And they don't like to be held, other than that they're fine feeders. i've fed them to my snakes before.

[millertime89]

I agree with most people here commenting, anything cheap or easy is being done already. If you really want to breed something different as a prey animal, that doesn't get too expensive. How about Degu's? They're the right size feeder, with a low body fat content compared to rats or mice. Excellent as variation.

Why are they so far not popular as feeders? They breed easy but slightly slower than other rodents (3-10 babies per female per litter) They need food with a low nutrients value (Or they will get fat, stop reproducing, and die) And they destroy any wood and even flat surfaced plastic enclosure, so something chew resistant like glass is required to keep them. And they don't like to be held, other than that they're fine feeders. i've fed them to my snakes before.

Interesting, I don't think I've ever heard of them before, they sound like a good alternative though.

[CosmicOwl]

I agree with most people here commenting, anything cheap or easy is being done already. If you really want to breed something different as a prey animal, that doesn't get too expensive. How about Degu's? They're the right size feeder, with a low body fat content compared to rats or mice. Excellent as variation.

Why are they so far not popular as feeders? They breed easy but slightly slower than other rodents (3-10 babies per female per litter) They need food with a low nutrients value (Or they will get fat, stop reproducing, and die) And they destroy any wood and even flat surfaced plastic enclosure, so something chew resistant like glass is required to keep them. And they don't like to be held, other than that they're fine feeders. i've fed them to my snakes before.

But maybe they aren't being done as feeders. That's the point I was trying to make. I wasn't trying to be argumentative or anything, but I know there are some animals being bred as pets that could easily be bred as feeders. For instance, if you had king snakes and wanted to offer them snakes, you could get yourself a couple of corn snakes to breed. This is an obvious example, but when I started this thread I assumed there might be a few more similar situations.

Anyway, the Degus sound quite interesting. Gerbils and quails are other options that I might pursue. Quail are definitely commercially available, but breeding my own could result and birds of various sizes, as well as eggs and even animals for human consumption.

[toddnbecka]

Interesting, I don't think I've ever heard of them before, they sound like a good alternative though.

Possibly, but what purpose would an alternative rodent serve? Nutritional content would likely be similar to rats, but considerably more expensive up front for breeding stock and less productive of offspring. Not to mention that most snakes would probably have to be "trained" to eat them (how many posts are there concerning switching feeders already?)

Birds I could see as a good alternative feeder, particularly for arboreal or semi-arboreal species. Those would be more likely to take them instinctively, and they could be useful for scenting other types of feeders as well.