ATB with her mouth open

[jsshark1]

I Have had this ATB for about a year, never gave problem when it came to eating like the rest of the one I have till now,

Top tank temp 88 deg
bottom tank temp 79
Humidity 71%

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if I have the top temp any lower then 88 deg she will put her head right under the screen with her mouth open as you can see in the picture.

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a good shot of the inside of her mouth,

she started about a month and a half ago but I did not think it was to much of a problem when she ate on 8-18 since then every attempt she just drop the mouse,

when you look at her she will hisssss and open her moth more then closes her mouth and she looks good, like no problem till I leave then she will go back to basking in the heat with her mouth open,

I took her to the vet yesterday just to be told the only snakes he sees are kids pets snakes and snakes for one breeder so it was not good as she is a spicy girl 5 foot girl that had every one in the room on edge.

he agreed with me that her mouth looks good and she has no mouth rot , he also thinks she dose not have a respiratory problem , I have not seen any bubbles ever come out of her mouth..his recommendation was wait two week and see how she is , maybe start her on antibiotics shots..

do I have to worry ? , any thought on what problem it could be ?

thanks for reading

[millertime89]

Pic from the other side? Looks like she's got her lip stuck on her teeth. I've seen it before with animals prone to defensive strikes or aggressive eaters.

[Aaron_S]

Honestly, don't let the vet give her antibiotics for no reason. It's just a silly waste of money. It's throwing poop at the wall and hoping something sticks.

Cultures need to be done. Tests need to be done to figure out any bacteria growing.

[millertime89]

^werd, I skimmed and missed that part. Went back and read the rest of the post. Keep an eye on her but I wouldn't be too concerned at this point. If you don't want to attempt to fix it yourself (a firm grasp behind her head and a pair of tweezers if it is a lip stuck on teeth) she may fix it on her own when she next goes to shed. Just keep the enclosure clear to make sure nothing gets in her mouth.

[jsshark1]

thank you for the reply's,

Now that makes sense, yes she loves to strike the screen covering the heat light, I will take a look in her mouth and try to fix her lip problem today , you are talk about the upper lip ? :) .

[millertime89]

Correct, seems to be the offending one usually.

[jsshark1]

After getting her out of her cage she was spicy as ever, I held her head and with some tweezers I went between the lip and her teeth and made shear nothing was hanging up, I got this picture after to show that all the teeth are free and for some one to say something if they see another problem or something I am missing.

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did fix it or do you still see a problem ?

Thanks

[millertime89]

How's her face look to you? Looks like a little bit of her lip in front my still be stuck on a tooth but that may just be the angle of the picture.

[jsshark1]

she did not want to eat last night , she would grab and wrap around the mouse but would drop it . she still basking in the heat with her mouth open i looked this morning and took another picture of your upper teeth,


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do you still see a problem ?
while I was examining her she was wheezing and hissing the hole time , I thing I see a bit of yellow on the tip of the lower teeth.

[millertime89]

Looks fine to me in that picture. Time for another vet trip if you hear wheezing and see yellow. Is she staying hydrated?

[jsshark1]

not at first, I notes her mouth looked so dry and I have not seen her in the water bowl , I now spray her down and she looks to be drinking ( inflates her lower neck) so I spray her down at least once a day, I agree time for the vet , her mouth looks good and no bubbles come out but the wheezing that I am confused thinking she is hissing has me worried.

[shaunyboy]

if i'm reading this correctly she never closes her mouth ?

it stays open all the time like in your pictures ?

if so i'm thinking there's something wrong with her jaws

you say she likes to strike at the hard plastic screen,she may have broke one or more jaws

if i'm reading this correctly,i'm wondering why the vet didn't take an X Ray of the jaws

my apologies if i'm not reading this thread correctly


cheers shaun

[millertime89]

I'm inclined to agree with Shaun at this point. The yellow may be plaque (like the stuff on your teeth) and can be a sign of dehydration.

[shaunyboy]

BOTTOM JAWS.....


1st picture
her right jaw looks ok and in line


3rd picture
her left jaw is hanging down at the front and way out of line

my thinking is a broken BOTTOM left jaw

if the vet missed that he deserves his practice closed down.....!!!


cheers shaun

[jsshark1]

she dose close her mouth if she is in defense mode. , looks good when closed



it's when you leave her alone she open her mouth , so when i approach the tank she starts to open her mouth more wile whizzing or hissing .

I will keeper hydrated with spraying,

if it is a broken jaw will she recover, sound like a death sentence if her jaw is broken

[jsshark1]

could it just be the way I am holding that makes her look like she has a broken jaw? :(

[lady_bug87]

Even in the picture with her mouth closed its not aligned properly (at least that's what it looks like to me) she needs a vet and some X-rays. Shaun is right. Definitely something wonky with the bottom left jaw.

[millertime89]

I'm with them. Definitely looks off.

[jsshark1]

yes I am keeping her hydrated, spraying her down and using a humidifier once a day on her tank.

:( I am worry every time she is messed with she want to strike at everything and can make things much worse then already is if her jaw is already broken :( I will have to see if the vet I am taking her to will do it , like I said they are not comfortable with a spicy ATB ...

she did eat a small rat after having her mouth open for two weeks and has not eaten since, ( over 4 weeks now)


Thanks for every ones time and input :)

[lady_bug87]

I also wouldn't rule out an abscess, or some other growth that's stopping her from being able to keep her mouth shut. Make sure you're watching her weight. It may be in your best interests to call teaching veterinary hospitals. They usually have a better idea of how to treat these animals.

The reason I say abscess or growth is because in the picture where her mouth is closed, it looks like there's something stopping the mouth from coming together.

[shaunyboy]

is there not another vet you could use mate ?

the one your using does not seem to be much use,especially if they're scared of the snake...!!



cheers shaun

[millertime89]

is there not another vet you could use mate ?

the one your using does not seem to be much use,especially if they're scared of the snake...!!



cheers shaun

Werd dawg..

[jsshark1]

I was recommended to another vet that can handle ATB's from a local reptile store , only 1 1/2 hour away , but worth the drive if they know what they are doing, I will call them

[shaunyboy]

any updates on your snake mate ?


cheers shaun

[jsshark1]

she is doing better I be leave but still has her mouth open most of the time,
I have seen her with her mouth closed and she is not putting her head so close to the light and she is not hissing as much as before,

I am misting her twice a day, I have also decided to wait on the antibiotics for a bit. the vet told me, if we where to give her a X-ray we have to knock her out and if they find a problem there would be little they can do to help heel the jaw it would do the heeling on its own if it heels.

this is her this morning
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she still has not eaten, another concern is that she mated with the
male on 6-5-14 and I would think she need to eat, :(

[shaunyboy]

i am NOT having a go at you mate

i honestly cannot believe a vet would send you home with a snake who sits with it's mouth open like that for most of the time,the vet imo is a bad vet

at the very least he should have suggested which routes he could have taken to get to finding the reason for her condition

i have never seen or heard of anything like it ?

my best opinion is the jaw or jaws are damaged and stopping her from keeping her mouth in the normal closed position

imo it needs treatment if possible or a decision made to euthanize the snake if the condition is untreatable

imo it's not fair on the snake to just leave it and hope the situation rectifies itself

re x ray
the vet should have performed an x ray and determined if there was any fractures in the jaws...

not just sent you home without answers

as said,im NOT having a go at you,but i am having a go at that useless vet


cheers shaun

[jsshark1]

we have a update:

she ate a rat pup last night , i have been leaven her alone and offered her food once a week till last night when she seemed to have no problem eating it, she is still keeping her mouth open , so back to leaving her alone till next feeding...

thanks for every ones input

[IW17]

I agree with Shaun. That particular vet seems like he's not familiar with, or comfortable with snakes. It might be worth taking a drive to another vets office. Is this office specific to exotics? Or just a normal vet that takes snakes?

[Will0W783]

You mentioned that she mated with your male in June? If so, it's possible that she is gravid. While being gravid (pregnant) would definitely not cause her to leave her mouth open, it could explain the lack of appetite. Most boids (and most snakes in fact) go off food when they become gravid. Has her weight gone up at all; do you notice a swelling in the middle-to-back of her?

As for the mouth hanging open all the time, in your pictures the mouth looks clean and free of infections. It does look like her jaws are not aligning properly though. As others have said, she could have injured her jaw.

The other possibility is parasites. There is a type of whipworm that some snakes get that can spread to the lungs. When this happens, the snake will usually open its mouth to breathe. In cases of whipworms in the lungs that I've seen, the snake will not leave its mouth open, but will instead slowly open the mouth about 1/3-1/2 way, leave it open for 30 seconds-1 minute, then close it. They also tend to rub their faces on cage furniture, screens and lights. I think the parasites are itchy and they are trying to ease the discomfort.

If this is the case, they will also show up in fecal samples, and Flagyl is the best course of treatment. You need to get a fresh (still wet) fecal sample to a vet who can run the test. Without treatment, worms are fatal once they get to the lungs. I've only seen it in stressed imports, but long-term captives can suddenly succumb if they are stressed by a change in environment or improper husbandry.

I hope your snake doesn't have parasites. Do you know if she was captive bred or wild caught? Most ATBs are wild-caught, unless the seller told you otherwise.

Best of luck; keep us posted. I'm curious to see how she does.

[KavomatovlHes]

DS had lots of mucus which looked looked foamy. He slept with his mouth open because of his adenoids. Since getting the tubes his adnoids went back to normal size and its not been an issue if he starts foaming or snoring again theyll want em removed.

[jossh27]

Ever find out what's wrong with your girl bro?