Munson Feeding Plan Question

[nazanova]

So according to the Munson Feeding plan I should be feeding my Corn 1 3g pinky every 5-6 days according to his size (He weighs just over 11g) but the pinkys I get only ever weigh on average between 1.5-2g maybe just over 2g every now and then so I usually give him 2 of these pinkys when it's feeding time. According to the Munson Feeding plan he is soon supposed to be on 2 3g pinkys every 5-6 days and there lies my problem. If I'm already feeding him 2 pinkys to equal to the 1 he's supposed to have, how many am I going to have to give him to make up for 2 3g pinkys? I'm pretty sure he's too small for fuzzies right now and I'd have to give him about 4 of the pinkys I get to equal what the Munson Feeding plan suggests and I think that's too much. Or is that totally fine?

[Jim Smith]

I think that you'll have several different opinions on feeding recommendations. While I freely admit that I am still fairly new to keeping snakes as an adult (about 18 months), I have done a fair bit of research on snakes growth and feeding. I believe that when snakes are young, it is beneficial to feed multiple smaller food items and I would not hesitate to feed four small pinkies if the snake will eat them quickly on their own. As the snake grows larger and matures, I switch to larger appropriately sized food items and feed less food items and less often. The ultimate size that a snake grows to is determined by the quantity and quality of the food (especially when young) and genetics. Digesting multiple smaller food items is "supposed" to be easier for the snake to do than digesting the same volume of food in one larger item. I do not have any empirical data to support my assumptions, but I had very good success with this method and my snakes always grow quickly and are very healthy without getting fat.

[Obsidian_Dragon]

Any chance a local breeder might have bigger pinkies for you?

I managed to artfully avoid this problem so far--my king's bigger, so is about to try fuzzies this week. Up until now, when I've gotten a box of pinks I've gotten enough bigger ones to fed his greedy gullet while the smaller ones go to my garter.

(I'm assuming that you, like me, don't have enough snakes to make bulk online orders worthwhile, especially when they're still growing!)

I don't THINK feeding up to 4 pinks as a temporary measure until he's big enough for fuzzies would hurt, but I'm far from an expert.

[CosmicOwl]

I think that you'll have several different opinions on feeding recommendations. While I freely admit that I am still fairly new to keeping snakes as an adult (about 18 months), I have done a fair bit of research on snakes growth and feeding. I believe that when snakes are young, it is beneficial to feed multiple smaller food items and I would not hesitate to feed four small pinkies if the snake will eat them quickly on their own. As the snake grows larger and matures, I switch to larger appropriately sized food items and feed less food items and less often. The ultimate size that a snake grows to is determined by the quantity and quality of the food (especially when young) and genetics. Digesting multiple smaller food items is "supposed" to be easier for the snake to do than digesting the same volume of food in one larger item. I do not have any empirical data to support my assumptions, but I had very good success with this method and my snakes always grow quickly and are very healthy without getting fat.

I think multiple smaller prey items is the way to go. There is more surface area, and thus they digest faster. That means more calories and nutrients for your snake.

[EL Ziggy]

Nova-I used to use the Munson feeding plan as a guideline for feeding my colubrids. I saw slow but steady growth. Now I feed them 10-15% of their body weight per feeding. My snakes are growing faster and all are healthy and none are overweight. My new bull snake is roughly 45g. He gets 1-3 rat pinkys every 5-6 days. I think young snakes should be fed heartily and the Munson feeding plan is a little too conservative in my opinion. When it comes to feeding multiple prey items vs. a single prey item. I'd rather feed an appropriately sized single prey item. I'd rather feed one rat weaner as opposed to 2-3 small mice. I think it's more of a convenience than a benefit but it's also more cost effective. Best wishes.

[nazanova]

Any chance a local breeder might have bigger pinkies for you?

I managed to artfully avoid this problem so far--my king's bigger, so is about to try fuzzies this week. Up until now, when I've gotten a box of pinks I've gotten enough bigger ones to fed his greedy gullet while the smaller ones go to my garter.

(I'm assuming that you, like me, don't have enough snakes to make bulk online orders worthwhile, especially when they're still growing!)

I don't THINK feeding up to 4 pinks as a temporary measure until he's big enough for fuzzies would hurt, but I'm far from an expert.

Where I live I don't think there's any local breeders lol. I either get them from a big name store or a local pet shop and both sets of pinkys are as small as each other, your right about ordering in bulk. I only have the one snake so it wouldn't make sense plus he's growing at an extraordinary rate. The only thing I haven't tried is ordering his food online, if that still doesn't work then I've exhausted all options.

[nazanova]

I think multiple smaller prey items is the way to go. There is more surface area, and thus they digest faster. That means more calories and nutrients for your snake.

So you think I should feed 4 like I'll end up having to do?

[nazanova]

Nova-I used to use the Munson feeding plan as a guideline for feeding my colubrids. I saw slow but steady growth. Now I feed them 10-15% of their body weight per feeding. My snakes are growing faster and all are healthy and none are overweight. My new bull snake is roughly 45g. He gets 1-3 rat pinkys every 5-6 days. I think young snakes should be fed heartily and the Munson feeding plan is a little too conservative in my opinion.

I might try the 10-15% rule. Everybody seems to use it and it might work out better.

[nazanova]

I think that you'll have several different opinions on feeding recommendations. While I freely admit that I am still fairly new to keeping snakes as an adult (about 18 months), I have done a fair bit of research on snakes growth and feeding. I believe that when snakes are young, it is beneficial to feed multiple smaller food items and I would not hesitate to feed four small pinkies if the snake will eat them quickly on their own. As the snake grows larger and matures, I switch to larger appropriately sized food items and feed less food items and less often. The ultimate size that a snake grows to is determined by the quantity and quality of the food (especially when young) and genetics. Digesting multiple smaller food items is "supposed" to be easier for the snake to do than digesting the same volume of food in one larger item. I do not have any empirical data to support my assumptions, but I had very good success with this method and my snakes always grow quickly and are very healthy without getting fat.

Thanks for the advice! I'm glad that 4 pinkys wouldn't be that big of a deal, I was worried about over feeding.

[CosmicOwl]

So you think I should feed 4 like I'll end up having to do?

No way I would feed him 4 pinkies that weigh 2 grams. That's almost 80% of his body weight. One or two pinkies every 5-7 days should be fine. You don't have to push a little snake to grow. Once they get onto fuzzies and hoppers they will pick up.

[nazanova]

No way I would feed him 4 pinkies that weigh 2 grams. That's almost 80% of his body weight. One or two pinkies every 5-7 days should be fine. You don't have to push a little snake to grow. Once they get onto fuzzies and hoppers they will pick up.

Ok I'm going to order some food for him online when I'm getting low to see if their any bigger.

[Aaron_S]

I use the 10-15% rule. Have been for a very long time. I should call it the "Reptile Enterprise Feeding Method." I could be as cool as Munson.

I have done it with multiple species including a few colubrids. Easily done, one prey item, once a week, 10 - 15% of body weight. Great growth rates. Also healthy rates.

[nazanova]

I use the 10-15% rule. Have been for a very long time. I should call it the "Reptile Enterprise Feeding Method." I could be as cool as Munson.

I have done it with multiple species including a few colubrids. Easily done, one prey item, once a week, 10 - 15% of body weight. Great growth rates. Also healthy rates.

I think I'll start doing it when he's on the next stage of the feeding plan (the part where I'd have to feed him 3 pinkys every feeding day)

[EL Ziggy]

I use the 10-15% rule. Have been for a very long time. I should call it the "Reptile Enterprise Feeding Method." I could be as cool as Munson.

I have done it with multiple species including a few colubrids. Easily done, one prey item, once a week, 10 - 15% of body weight. Great growth rates. Also healthy rates.

And thank you for sharing the REFM with many of us here Aaron :). It's worked GREAT for my colubrids. I can attest to it's merits.

[Aaron_S]

And thank you for sharing the REFM with many of us here Aaron :). It's worked GREAT for my colubrids. I can attest to it's merits.

lol no problem!

I'm glad others can use it and can spread the information. It really digs down and cuts out a lot of hassle with size, thickness of snake and frequency.

I'm really glad to hear it's worked with other colubrids too.

[franks]

I am a big believer in getting a snake off of pinks as quickly as possible. I want my snakes to be eating as many bones as possible when they are very young. Pinkies are just bags of milk. If you observe, the stool of the snake is even different on pinkies.

[nazanova]

I am a big believer in getting a snake off of pinks as quickly as possible. I want my snakes to be eating as many bones as possible when they are very young. Pinkies are just bags of milk. If you observe, the stool of the snake is even different on pinkies.

I totally agree. I want to get him off them as soon as too but he's too small for fuzzies at the moment.

[Obsidian_Dragon]

I introduced Noodle to his first fuzzy last night. It took him ~20 minutes to figure out how to eat the dang thing. I checked on him at one point to find the mouse head still sticking out of his mouth, which is a weird sight, let me tell you. He consistently takes things butt first. /eyeroll

I can try the 10-15% rule myself--at least with him. My garter is a whole 'nother story, since she's not yet tame enough to bring out for the same weekly weighing that I give Noodle. She's eating pinkie parts every 3 days though, so her growth rate should already be pretty good.

Speaking of--if you are really motivated to get him off pinks, what about...er...fuzzy parts? I only think of it because I have to split pinks for the garter. You might be able to move up to fuzzies if you don't mind chopping them up into manageable pieces. It's kind of gross, though.

[nazanova]

I introduced Noodle to his first fuzzy last night. It took him ~20 minutes to figure out how to eat the dang thing. I checked on him at one point to find the mouse head still sticking out of his mouth, which is a weird sight, let me tell you. He consistently takes things butt first. /eyeroll

I can try the 10-15% rule myself--at least with him. My garter is a whole 'nother story, since she's not yet tame enough to bring out for the same weekly weighing that I give Noodle. She's eating pinkie parts every 3 days though, so her growth rate should already be pretty good.

Speaking of--if you are really motivated to get him off pinks, what about...er...fuzzy parts? I only think of it because I have to split pinks for the garter. You might be able to move up to fuzzies if you don't mind chopping them up into manageable pieces. It's kind of gross, though.

I don't think I would mind it but it's all hassle I can avoid until he's big enough to take em whole.

[Aaron_S]

I don't think I would mind it but it's all hassle I can avoid until he's big enough to take em whole.

Don't need to. Just keep using whole prey items. It's a lot better than pieces of a slightly larger item.

[franks]

Don't need to. Just keep using whole prey items. It's a lot better than pieces of a slightly larger item.

Yup- whole prey.

[nazanova]

Thought I'd ask a quick question on this thread. So today I weighed my Corn and found out he now weighs 18g and like I've said about the Munson feeding plan already, he should apparently be on two 3g pinkys. Now by the weight of the Pinkys I get from the pet shops I would have to give him 3 pinkys per feeding so my question is this... Should I just move him onto fuzzies? Or Is he still too small?

[CosmicOwl]

Youd probably be better getting onto small fuzzies. Pinkies aren't bad but they dont have as much nutrition.

[nazanova]

Youd probably be better getting onto small fuzzies. Pinkies aren't bad but they dont have as much nutrition.

Hmmm I would but I don't know if he's big enough to take them yet. Maybe I'll buy just 1 fuzzy, give it to him and see how it goes.

[EL Ziggy]

I'd try a small fuzzy too nova. It definitely can't hurt. You'll be impressed and surprised at the size of prey they can consume. I'd much rather feed one fuzzy than 3 pinks.

[nazanova]

I'd try a small fuzzy too nova. It definitely can't hurt. You'll be impressed and surprised at the size of prey they can consume. I'd much rather feed one fuzzy than 3 pinks.

He's only got a few pinkies left so I'll give him what's left then try a fuzzy.