Planning for the future

[nazanova]

So I've been thinking and I think I need to start planning my Corn Snake Plutos adult enclosure. I'm very uneducated when it comes to the required dimensions for an adult Corns enclosure so I thought I would ask you guys. He's only 2 months old and already a foot, his mum and dad are both 6ft so I'm expecting he will grow to be the same seen as he is quite large already. I think I'm going to go for RUB tanks as they're cheap, easy to clean/maintain and I heard you don't really need those expensive wooden vivariums because really they are just for display and to look pretty. I've included some pictures of the different measurements of tanks they sell here in the UK just incase it'd be easier for you guys to just tell me which one I should go for.

http://i1376.photobucket.com/albums/ah3/zurgaa1/Mobile%20Uploads/F801EA56-AD53-4752-9532-BD8C7422EB74_zpseekme7in.png (http://s1376.photobucket.com/user/zurgaa1/media/Mobile%20Uploads/F801EA56-AD53-4752-9532-BD8C7422EB74_zpseekme7in.png.html)

http://i1376.photobucket.com/albums/ah3/zurgaa1/Mobile%20Uploads/24A16EF3-DE47-46D6-9A68-DB44D5228319_zps3marckyw.png (http://s1376.photobucket.com/user/zurgaa1/media/Mobile%20Uploads/24A16EF3-DE47-46D6-9A68-DB44D5228319_zps3marckyw.png.html)

[franks]

The consensus rule of thumb for minimum cage requirements it 1 square foot of floor space for 1 linear foot of snake length. So a 6 foot corn snake according to this would need a 3'x2' enclosure or something akin. My personal belief is get the biggest enclosure you can afford space for and heat.

[nazanova]

The consensus rule of thumb for minimum cage requirements it 1 square foot of floor space for 1 linear foot of snake length. So a 6 foot corn snake according to this would need a 3'x2' enclosure or something akin. My personal belief is get the biggest enclosure you can afford space for and heat.

Finally someone got back to me lol. Thanks for the advice I'll keep it noted for when I do get his final enclosure, I will try to buy the biggest one I can afford but I just like to have a good idea of what the bare minimum should be. Also I plan on getting a baby ball python and I would like to buy it one enclosure where it will live for the rest of it's life (obviously as a baby I'd make sure there's lots of cover so it doesn't get stressed) so would those measurements kind of apply for a BP also? Thanks again :).

[Mikoh4792]

For both snakes I'd go with 3x2 as the minimum. But I think minimums should only apply to people who breed lots of snakes. The average keeper and hobbyist should go as big as they can, especially if only two snakes are being cared for. Ideally I'd give each snake a 4x2x2.

[nazanova]

For both snakes I'd go with 3x2 as the minimum. But I think minimums should only apply to people who breed lots of snakes. The average keeper and hobbyist should go as big as they can, especially if only two snakes are being cared for. Ideally I'd give each snake a 4x2x2.

Ok so do you think I should forget about the RUB tanks then? Thanks.

[Lankyrob]

Can we see pics of the six foot corns?

[IW17]

No doubt. A six foot corn is huge! That being said go as big as you can. Although two feet of height for a ball python might be much. There not huge climbers. Mine are in 4x2x1 and definitely use the floor space.

[Mikoh4792]

No doubt. A six foot corn is huge! That being said go as big as you can. Although two feet of height for a ball python might be much. There not huge climbers. Mine are in 4x2x1 and definitely use the floor space.

It's really not that much if you look at 2 feet of height compared to the wild. That's how tall rocks, logs, small hills...etc are and not really something I would consider "Arboreal".

[Mikoh4792]

Ok so do you think I should forget about the RUB tanks then? Thanks.

No, rubs are fine. It doesn't matter what you use. What matters is the size of what you use. A 3 foot rub is better than a 2 foot enclosure.

[nazanova]

Can we see pics of the six foot corns?

They were the breeders snakes. But when I went to get my lil buddy I did see them and hold the mum and they were indeed quite long lol.

[nazanova]

No doubt. A six foot corn is huge! That being said go as big as you can. Although two feet of height for a ball python might be much. There not huge climbers. Mine are in 4x2x1 and definitely use the floor space.

Haha indeed! That's what I'm planning for just in case. Yeah I'm mainly looking for length more then height but obviously I'd have enough height for my current corn and my future snakes to stretch up if they want to.

[nazanova]

No, rubs are fine. It doesn't matter what you use. What matters is the size of what you use. A 3 foot rub is better than a 2 foot enclosure.

Ok thanks for the help I'll definitely look for any kind of enclosure that has the measurements you've suggested :)

[Roman]

If you would life here in Germany, the answer for the minimum size would be 1 x 0.5 x 1 of the total length of an adult animal, so for a 6 ft cornsnake the dimensions should be 6 ft x 3 ft x 6 ft according to the official guidelines which were issued 1997 by the government in accordance with some animal rights groups and some reptile experts (among others).

Granted, the supposed dimensions are generous to say the least, On the other hand, in my experience an active snake like your cornsnake will be more active if it gets more room, in a small enclosure it will most probably only stay at the same place (where should it go to anyway), but in a larger enclosure it will move around, climb the branches up and down…

So in my opinion something like 5 x 2 x 4 would do fine (add another feed in depth if you can, your snake might feel more secure if it can stay away from you).

You have only one snake right now, a second when you get your ball python. Why do you want to keep them on minimum conditions? Why hide them? Go for a display enclosure, place it in your living room. Create something you really enjoy to watch – every time you see it it should make you smile. Not something barley adequate to just house your snake but something interesting to look at. Create a piece of a north American woodland or maybe a small section of a barn where your snake is a part of the whole picture. Be creative. If you do it right (and you have more than enough time to do it right and to save enough money to be able to do it) you don’t need your TV any longer and you have to use a big stick to get visitors back to your dinner table instead of watching your enclosure all the time.

Roman

[nazanova]

If you would life here in Germany, the answer for the minimum size would be 1 x 0.5 x 1 of the total length of an adult animal, so for a 6 ft cornsnake the dimensions should be 6 ft x 3 ft x 6 ft according to the official guidelines which were issued 1997 by the government in accordance with some animal rights groups and some reptile experts (among others).

Granted, the supposed dimensions are generous to say the least, On the other hand, in my experience an active snake like your cornsnake will be more active if it gets more room, in a small enclosure it will most probably only stay at the same place (where should it go to anyway), but in a larger enclosure it will move around, climb the branches up and down…

So in my opinion something like 5 x 2 x 4 would do fine (add another feed in depth if you can, your snake might feel more secure if it can stay away from you).

You have only one snake right now, a second when you get your ball python. Why do you want to keep them on minimum conditions? Why hide them? Go for a display enclosure, place it in your living room. Create something you really enjoy to watch – every time you see it it should make you smile. Not something barley adequate to just house your snake but something interesting to look at. Create a piece of a north American woodland or maybe a small section of a barn where your snake is a part of the whole picture. Be creative. If you do it right (and you have more than enough time to do it right and to save enough money to be able to do it) you don’t need your TV any longer and you have to use a big stick to get visitors back to your dinner table instead of watching your enclosure all the time.

Roman

Wow lots of advice there lol! Very true what you said. I only plan on having 4 snakes so if that's the case maybe a nice display vivarium would be nice? Thanks for the in depth info definitely making me think :)

[nazanova]

I've just looked into the big vivariums and they're not as expensive as I thought, think I've just swapped all my ideas and planning around lol.

[franks]

If you would life here in Germany, the answer for the minimum size would be 1 x 0.5 x 1 of the total length of an adult animal, so for a 6 ft cornsnake the dimensions should be 6 ft x 3 ft x 6 ft according to the official guidelines which were issued 1997 by the government in accordance with some animal rights groups and some reptile experts (among others).

Granted, the supposed dimensions are generous to say the least, On the other hand, in my experience an active snake like your cornsnake will be more active if it gets more room, in a small enclosure it will most probably only stay at the same place (where should it go to anyway), but in a larger enclosure it will move around, climb the branches up and down…

So in my opinion something like 5 x 2 x 4 would do fine (add another feed in depth if you can, your snake might feel more secure if it can stay away from you).

You have only one snake right now, a second when you get your ball python. Why do you want to keep them on minimum conditions? Why hide them? Go for a display enclosure, place it in your living room. Create something you really enjoy to watch – every time you see it it should make you smile. Not something barley adequate to just house your snake but something interesting to look at. Create a piece of a north American woodland or maybe a small section of a barn where your snake is a part of the whole picture. Be creative. If you do it right (and you have more than enough time to do it right and to save enough money to be able to do it) you don’t need your TV any longer and you have to use a big stick to get visitors back to your dinner table instead of watching your enclosure all the time.

Roman

Thank you Roman. Well said man. People put their snakes in enclosures where they cannot even fully stretch out, and shove large rodents on them so they "reach size" and people wonder why their snakes don't reach 10 years. I appreciate a voice for large enclosures. I wish that the practices breeders undergo to keep multiple snakes was not considered appropriate for the hobbiests.

[nazanova]

Thank you Roman. Well said man. People put their snakes in enclosures where they cannot even fully stretch out, and shove large rodents on them so they "reach size" and people wonder why their snakes don't reach 10 years. I appreciate a voice for large enclosures. I wish that the practices breeders undergo to keep multiple snakes was not considered appropriate for the hobbiests.

I never knew hobbiests were so against methods of housing by breeders. All I want is the best care for my animals and if a big enclosure is what they need, that's what they are going to get. Thank you and thanks everyone for helping me see sense :)

[franks]

I never knew hobbiests were so against methods of housing by breeders. All I want is the best care for my animals and if a big enclosure is what they need, that's what they are going to get. Thank you and thanks everyone for helping me see sense :)

They are not against those methods. Very very few keepers house their snakes in an enclosure that let's them fully stretch out. It is impractical for most. Snakes are hardy animals and are kept, grown, and bred in smaller enclosures. I am not saying that a snake cannot be kept healthy in these setups but I do personally feel that it is unnatural and I do genuinely wonder how healthy it is. I know many breeders that keep 8' carpet pythons in 4x2x2 enclosures that are healthy animals and over ten years old. But... I know many many more breeders and hobbiests alike that all have snakes between the ages of 1-6 yrs old. We keep snakes in shoe boxes and feed them large meals once a week- I do not feel that is great. I think our aim should be to replicate their environment in a way that improves their safety (there are no predators obviously) but allows them to act out their life and do snake things. Just my personal feelings: bottom line is I support the notion of one or two snakes kept in nice large natural enclosures over the concept of keeping a dozen in little plastic boxes. The problem is... as you will certainly find out... snakes are addicting man lol.

[Mikoh4792]

They are not against those methods. Very very few keepers house their snakes in an enclosure that let's them fully stretch out. It is impractical for most. Snakes are hardy animals and are kept, grown, and bred in smaller enclosures. I am not saying that a snake cannot be kept healthy in these setups but I do personally feel that it is unnatural and I do genuinely wonder how healthy it is. I know many breeders that keep 8' carpet pythons in 4x2x2 enclosures that are healthy animals and over ten years old. But... I know many many more breeders and hobbiests alike that all have snakes between the ages of 1-6 yrs old. We keep snakes in shoe boxes and feed them large meals once a week- I do not feel that is great. I think our aim should be to replicate their environment in a way that improves their safety (there are no predators obviously) but allows them to act out their life and do snake things. Just my personal feelings: bottom line is I support the notion of one or two snakes kept in nice large natural enclosures over the concept of keeping a dozen in little plastic boxes. The problem is... as you will certainly find out... snakes are addicting man lol.


100% agree

The problem is... as you will certainly find out... snakes are addicting man lol

Therein lies the problem! lol

[nazanova]

They are not against those methods. Very very few keepers house their snakes in an enclosure that let's them fully stretch out. It is impractical for most. Snakes are hardy animals and are kept, grown, and bred in smaller enclosures. I am not saying that a snake cannot be kept healthy in these setups but I do personally feel that it is unnatural and I do genuinely wonder how healthy it is. I know many breeders that keep 8' carpet pythons in 4x2x2 enclosures that are healthy animals and over ten years old. But... I know many many more breeders and hobbiests alike that all have snakes between the ages of 1-6 yrs old. We keep snakes in shoe boxes and feed them large meals once a week- I do not feel that is great. I think our aim should be to replicate their environment in a way that improves their safety (there are no predators obviously) but allows them to act out their life and do snake things. Just my personal feelings: bottom line is I support the notion of one or two snakes kept in nice large natural enclosures over the concept of keeping a dozen in little plastic boxes. The problem is... as you will certainly find out... snakes are addicting man lol.

Oh ok I understand now. The more you guys talk about it the more I'm fully against RUB boxes and such things and more for nice big enclosures with lots of room for movement (and lots of cover of course) and regarding the snake addiction comment.... Don't I know it! I'm already planning my next venture for the near future lol. I'm only really expecting to have 4 snakes of my life time so if that remains the case I will have 4 nice, well kept enclosures but if I decide I want more after those 4 (from what everyone's saying I most definitely will) then for space, money and maintenance reasons I'd have to get into the realms of rack systems. But anyways that's all in the distant future and thank you for your advice :)

[franks]

Lol look at you go! You started off talking about 2 and already we are talking 4. It is a fun slide friend. Can't wait to see pictures of your snake and setup. If you decide to try to build something let me know- I'll try to help you.

[nazanova]

Lol look at you go! You started off talking about 2 and already we are talking 4. It is a fun slide friend. Can't wait to see pictures of your snake and setup. If you decide to try to build something let me know- I'll try to help you.

Hahaha I've always wanted 4 at some point in my lifetime but I am starting to plan for my next one already lol the addiction is strong! When I get his adult enclosure I will no doubt be asking for a little bit of help and be posting pictures :) I would love to build something but I'm useless at DIY lol but thank you for the offer :)

[nazanova]

Thought I'd add a picture of Plutos current tank as I've just cleaned it out today while he ate. The left side is the hot side and the right is the cool side and I've just swapped his hides around.

http://i1376.photobucket.com/albums/ah3/zurgaa1/Mobile%20Uploads/0FD629DB-18EB-4545-9C43-0BEAA7590CF2_zpsgg4nj3qc.jpg (http://s1376.photobucket.com/user/zurgaa1/media/Mobile%20Uploads/0FD629DB-18EB-4545-9C43-0BEAA7590CF2_zpsgg4nj3qc.jpg.html)

[franks]

Careful with that. I had a cornsnake escape from smaller vent holes than that. They can surprise you. Can you post a pic of your snake in relation to the critter - keeper top?

[nazanova]

Careful with that. I had a cornsnake escape from smaller vent holes than that. They can surprise you. Can you post a pic of your snake in relation to the critter - keeper top?

Na there's no way he can get out of those holes, trust me he's tried lol. They look ALOT bigger in the pic, they are very thin holes really. Well he's just been fed today so I'll take a pic in the next 2 days or so once he's digested his food, by critter/keeper top do you mean like the little flap that opens on top of the tank?

[franks]

Na there's no way he can get out of those holes, trust me he's tried lol. They look ALOT bigger in the pic, they are very thin holes really. Well he's just been fed today so I'll take a pic in the next 2 days or so once he's digested his food, by critter/keeper top do you mean like the little flap that opens on top of the tank?

Yeah- that's what we call them here in the US. You are the one with eyes on the snake so you are in the best position to judge.

[nazanova]

Yeah- that's what we call them here in the US. You are the one with eyes on the snake so you are in the best position to judge.

Ok just making sure so I don't look like a fool when I take a picture of something else lol. I'll put up a pic in about 2 days :)