My Feeding Technique

[Madness420]

hey guys i was looking to get some opinions on my way of feeding my baby corn snakes, and the ball python i just got which i will feed the first time in 3 days. i feed f/t so after the mouse is warm i place it in a plastic container. then i wash my hands to remove the smell, and i remove the snake from the enclosure. after holding the snake for a minute or so, saying my goodbyes for the next 36hrs, i lower the snake towards the mouse, manuevering them so their head touches the mouse's head. it almost allways takes less than 5seconds for them to slowly and non violently open wide and start to consume the mouse. afterwards i allow the snake to crawl out slightly and i pick them up and return them home. i do this because i feel like it speeds things up, and i am introducing the snake to the mouse, not the other way around. my goal in all of this is to create very docile snakes that are not easily confused when it comes to food vs people. let me know what you think :)

[BIGT FROM F.B.]

Everyone has their own ways and opinions. Whatever you and the snakes are comfortable with. Hope the bombardment doesn't start now. :blink:

[Stewjoe]

Place mouse in cage- done.

[MDT]

Place mouse in cage- done.


This.....don't over think it...

if you feel there is a "docile" issue, a cage hook is a good option to give a light touch to "let them know" its not feeding time and not to expect a mouse in the cage...

[smy_749]

weird.......

[Jim Smith]

I have been feeding my snakes in tubs outside their cages for the past year or so for all my snakes except one who is a very shy eater. I feed her in her cage and she eats just fine. In fact, I think I'm going to start feeding all of them in their cages. Since I thaw my mice in warm water before feeding still wet them to the snakes, I place a plastic container lid or coaster in the cage to place the mouse on. This just allows the snake(s) to get the mouse without picking up the Aspen bedding I use in their cages.

That said, it's like Big T said, whatever works well for you and make you comfortable is what you should do.

[EL Ziggy]

Different strokes for different folks. Do whatever works best for you. I feed my snakes from tongs in their enclosures. If they don't strike I drop the prey in the enclosure and let the snakes do what they do. So far it's working pretty good.

[BIGT FROM F.B.]

Place mouse in cage- done.

Forgot to mention, me too.

[Teal]

If that's how you like doing it and your snakes handle it well, then it doesn't matter how other people feel about it (:

[BIGT FROM F.B.]

IMO, you will also see different snakes that act different when feeding time. My Florida Brooks King is the most aggressive snake I've ever seen when he eats. He knows when the mice are near. I don't even have the screen top open and he's already stretched out zooming his head around the screen, looking. He hasn't bitten my hand, (yet), but as soon as I drop the mouse in, he strikes before it hits the bedding.

I may have to tong feed him before long because of this. He even leaps completely in the air giving chase if the mouse escapes the first time. My neighbors ask me to tell them when I feed so they can watch the show.

[millertime89]

Feeding outside of the snake's primary enclosure is unnecessary and based on an outdated idea. All it does is add extra stress to the animal.

[Madness420]

thanks for all the comments. i fell like the general concensis is, do what works, feeding in cage is fine, anything else is just added work. i personally enjoy the way i do it, and the whole process takes about 5min so it doesnt bother me as far as added work. and like i said, i like to hold them a bit before i bring them to the food because i know i'll be waiting at least 24hrs to hold them again. i am a bit obsessed with holding them, good thing i have 4 otherwise i might be handling one too much. i do plan to breed one day and i'm sure when i have like 6 adults and 50 babies to feed, i'll probably be tank feeding.

[Stewjoe]

The problems start with aggressive feeders. My Carpets wouldn't simply crawl out of the feeding bin and let me pick them up. Nearly every one would still be in feeding mode and attacking anything that moves, there's no easy way to get them back into their cage. Also they can smell the rats thawing in the kitchen so even getting them out of their cages would be trouble. Even the ones normally placid will be nipping at the doors as soon as I walk in. Out of my 15 ravenous pythons all but one will snap out of feeding mode with a quick tap of my hook. He is just as nuts inside of his cage as he is after I get him out so I don't see that as an association with feeding in the cage.

IMHO you are more likely to get bitten tub feeding. I tried it when I got my first snake and it resulted in the only two times I have been bitten by my most tame Carpet who now gets fed in his cage and I has never made a move on me since.

And one last point, if you are ever transporting the snake in a tub or placing it in a tub for temporary holding expect it to be looking for food when you go to take it out. Your hand will look as tasty as any mouse. They will associate the tub with food.

[Madness420]

i do house my corn snakes together so it would be hard to cage feed. i plan to do my ball pythons in pairs too i just happen to only have one right now.

[millertime89]

You shouldn't house corn snakes together. That's just asking for one to make a meal out of another.

[franks]

You shouldn't house corn snakes together. That's just asking for one to make a meal out of another.

Completely agree. Colubrids eat other reptiles. How big is the enclosure you are housing them in?

[Teal]

i do house my corn snakes together so it would be hard to cage feed. i plan to do my ball pythons in pairs too i just happen to only have one right now.

Snakes should only be housed together *temporarily* for breeding purposes. Otherwise, they should have their own fully set up enclosures. In addition to the risk of eating/injuring each other, it just isn't a natural situation for most species and that says to me it's probably more stress than I want to expose my animals to.

[Madness420]

they do it at pet stores. and one of the breeders i bought from raises all his corns in pairs and never had a canibalistic or early breeding incident. i have been feeding them every for days, now i am switching to every 5 days, so its not like they are going to get desperately hungry. i know there is like a 1% chance they can be canibalistic, but that goes for humans too and that never stopped me from having roommates.

[Madness420]

and 2 of the 3 came from the same clutch. i dont know if that means anything or not. are snakes aware of brothers and sisters?

[Aaron_S]

and 2 of the 3 came from the same clutch. i dont know if that means anything or not. are snakes aware of brothers and sisters?

No. They have no social community feelings. Solitary animals.

They breed each other no matter how closely related.

[Aaron_S]

they do it at pet stores. and one of the breeders i bought from raises all his corns in pairs and never had a canibalistic or early breeding incident. i have been feeding them every for days, now i am switching to every 5 days, so its not like they are going to get desperately hungry. i know there is like a 1% chance they can be canibalistic, but that goes for humans too and that never stopped me from having roommates.

Pet stores are temporary housing for animals they keep. Their methods aren't meant for long term keepers. It's not appropriate to follow their example.

Humans think differently than snakes. Humans say "hey I'm hungry." We then go make food.
If a snake says "Hey I'm hungry." They won't go tell you...they will just go eat. Do not compare the two. It's apples to oranges and not apple to apples.

As I teach everyone who buys baby ball pythons from me, take what I say and add it to the other research they have done. It's foolish to just look for the ONE view that agrees with you (the breeder who keeps in pairs) and ignore the other hundreds of breeders and experiences.

Lastly, feed however you want, I would just ask that you don't recommend it to anyone as it's unsafe for most keepers.

[smy_749]

I hate when people come here and say what the "breeder" and pet store told them. Everyone these days is an expert/breeder. 1% chance for cannibalism....same as humans? Wtf man. You guys are being way too lax with this kid

[MDT]

Madness is as Madness does...ask for advice and then disregard it at the expense of the safety and well being of your pets. Brilliant.

[NewSAHSnakeMom]

Snakes are solitary creatures, that's the first thing I learned when researching snakes. I am far from an expert, but the the first thing I learned was never house snakes together unless for breeding purposes and only for a short time. Its not safe, they fight for space, for hides, and for the best basking spot. Do what you want because you will anyway, but make sure to check your snakes for injuries. As for comparing snakes to humans here's one for you, put two siblings in a small room and tell them to share it & only let them out for feedings my bet they would fight too. Oh wait I know they would my daughters share a room, they are allowed out whenever they want & still fight! And their room is huge! Just saying be careful! And watch for blood.

[Stewjoe]

I will just leave this picture of a feeder Corn eating a King Cobra here.

http://38.media.tumblr.com/749926bedd8655bada3713cc36a92e14/tumblr_mvno7vBPrc1rdag7yo1_500.jpg

[MDT]

Nah....there's like a 1% chance that'll ever happen....

[SnoopySnake]

they do it at pet stores.

I'm sorry, but this is a terrible way to justify housing your snakes together. Pet stores are usually very off in the care of their animals, from temps, to humidity, to shoving multiple snakes in a little 10 gallon aquarium. A pet store near me keeps 3-4 ball pythons in a 10 gallon with a screen lid and a heat lamp, aspen, a tiny water bowl with a branch and no hides. Does that mean its right and that I should do that if I were to get a couple ball pythons?

Can I Keep Multiple Snakes in One Enclosure? | squamishserpents.ca (http://squamishserpents.ca/care-info/can-i-keep-multiple-snakes-in-one-enclosure)
http://squamishserpents.ca/wp-content/gallery/co-habbing-misfortunes/thumbs/thumbs_cohab2.jpg
http://squamishserpents.ca/wp-content/gallery/co-habbing-misfortunes/thumbs/thumbs_cohab10.jpg

[Aaron_S]

I hate when people come here and say what the "breeder" and pet store told them. Everyone these days is an expert/breeder. 1% chance for cannibalism....same as humans? Wtf man. You guys are being way too lax with this kid

It's not about being too relaxed with this kid or not.

It's simply that the information given by me and others here is correct. There's no reason to fight someone who wants to believe what they want to believe. It's more important that proper information is posted (it has been) so anyone reading this thread can have options to choose from for their animals and hopefully they choose correctly.

I put it a different way. Would you argue with someone so much if they said today is Sunday and yet we all know it's Friday?

[smy_749]

Good point, I guess Im just not patient enough for that approach when people pull the pet store / breeder line.

[Aaron_S]

Good point, I guess Im just not patient enough for that approach when people pull the pet store / breeder line.

I absoulely agree. I don't like it anymore than you do. I just try to find a way to show why it might be in error to pay attention to them.

[Madness420]

again i appreciate the responses. even the more impatient ones. i will make strides to house them separately, tho clearly it is possible to sucessfully raise them together because i have seen healthy adult corn snakes living together that have been for at least 3 years. as it is right now there is more than enough room for my 3 baby corns in the 20 gallon tank as well as both the hot and cold hides. and again i am feeding every 4-5 days so they are not getting too hungry. i will say i am skeptical about the pictures because they all seem to be in small tupperware containers vs tanks that are twice as long as the snakes, with multiple hides, basking space, ect... please dont take this as me rejecting your advise after asking, i already said i will separate them when i can. but now that i think about it i have never seen a picture of a corn eating a corn in which the setting was not a small plastic tub. i could be wrong, i am simply stating my personal observed correlation.

[Aaron_S]

again i appreciate the responses. even the more impatient ones. i will make strides to house them separately, tho clearly it is possible to sucessfully raise them together because i have seen healthy adult corn snakes living together that have been for at least 3 years. as it is right now there is more than enough room for my 3 baby corns in the 20 gallon tank as well as both the hot and cold hides. and again i am feeding every 4-5 days so they are not getting too hungry. i will say i am skeptical about the pictures because they all seem to be in small tupperware containers vs tanks that are twice as long as the snakes, with multiple hides, basking space, ect... please dont take this as me rejecting your advise after asking, i already said i will separate them when i can. but now that i think about it i have never seen a picture of a corn eating a corn in which the setting was not a small plastic tub. i could be wrong, i am simply stating my personal observed correlation.

Did you ever think that may be the animals were placed into the bin to hopefully keep a closer eye on what's happening?

From my personal experience I have seen water pythons, babies, in a 25 gallon tank, grab and eat it's tankmate. What's unusual about it is the fact that the snakes were just defensive and were striking at the person teasing them from outside. One snake hit the other and it just coiled and ate the other one.

This was in a pet store I worked at in my late teens. Firsthand experience, no pics though.

I wouldn't consider 3 years long enough to see how well "healthy adults" are maintained. I would consider an entire lifespan of cornsnakes, 10+ years an appropriate time frame.

This is just different observation and experience than yours. As I said earlier, I put information out there for others to see and so they can make an informed decision.

[Madness420]

i have been doing research, reading testimonials and expert advice that supports both sides, but they all aknowledge the risk, however small, there is a risk and i understand that. i will one day house them separately, but right now they are separate and so i am taking extreme precaution, like feeding every 4-5 days vs 7, feeding separately, and cleaning them with a wet paper towel then quarentining for a while after they eat to get rid of any food smell and make sure they are not in food mode anymore. please dont bash me i know yall dont agree but its the safest option i have right now. in the future it will be safer, i.e. separate tanks.

[millertime89]

I would be curious as to whom these "experts" are that you are reading testimonials from.

[Madness420]

one was Kathy Love. she said there is deffinately a risk, but it can be done with no problems. she said shipping them is more risky than housing corns together but again she is not saying there is not a risk in communal housing. and she wrote the book that everybody recomends for newbies in the feild of corn snakes, weather its breeding or just raising a single pet.

[Cmwells90]

Personally I see my snakes as a valuable life, I would never want to lose one or stress them out. The risk you're taking goes against this, but it is your choice. My only opinion is, if you can't provide the right conditions from the begining them you shouldn't have so many. I imagine the reason they're all in the same tank is because you don't have the money/space for additional tanks. If you do have the space and money for the additional enclosures, then it's just carelessness. Either way, they are your animals and you can make the choice that you think is best, but don't be upset when one stops eating due to stress, and later dies. If snakes were meant to be housed together they would be social animals, which they are not.

Also, don't expect us to sit here and provide support for this when some of us have expierence with this going wrong very quickly.

[eminart]

I think a lot of people confuse "not social" with "aggressive to others". They're not necessarily the same thing. Most snakes in the wild, that are not snake eaters, run across each other all the time, especially in particularly good habit or areas of high food density. They don't AVOID each other most of the time. In fact, they often congregate in those areas. So, the whole argument about snakes not being social, therefore they shouldn't be housed together really is a bit misguided, or at least a misuse of the term. Frogs and turtles aren't social either, but they're commonly housed together.

I'm NOT saying that housing corn snakes together is necessarily the best way to go. There's certainly at least a small amount of risk. But, if the snakes are similarly sized, and they're fed separately, I think that risk really is small. I've seen it done successfully.

[EL Ziggy]

I'm not saying it can't be done, it's just not worth the risk TO ME. To each his own though. Be careful and best wishes.

[Lankyrob]

I think a lot of people confuse "not social" with "aggressive to others". They're not necessarily the same thing. Most snakes in the wild, that are not snake eaters, run across each other all the time, especially in particularly good habit or areas of high food density. They don't AVOID each other most of the time. In fact, they often congregate in those areas. So, the whole argument about snakes not being social, therefore they shouldn't be housed together really is a bit misguided, or at least a misuse of the term. Frogs and turtles aren't social either, but they're commonly housed together.

I'm NOT saying that housing corn snakes together is necessarily the best way to go. There's certainly at least a small amount of risk. But, if the snakes are similarly sized, and they're fed separately, I think that risk really is small. I've seen it done successfully.

The difference is that in the wild they can also escape from each other, they have no choice in a tank in our house!

[eminart]

The difference is that in the wild they can also escape from each other, they have no choice in a tank in our house!


I think there's very little difference.

Like I said, it's probably not the easiest or safest way to keep them. But, I think the risks are very exaggerated. I've seen barns that are home to several rat snakes. They ignore each other.

[Madness420]

its a 20g tank and the biggest one is 17grams and about 18in long. the only time they dont eat is right before they shed, then as soon as they do, they eat no problem. i hold them all every day, except for 24hrs after meal. i hold them together and separate. they are active when i hold them and when in the tank they are usually curled up together under the same hide. i know they are not cuddling, thats just the good spot in the tank so they are all there.

[CosmicOwl]

I will just leave this picture of a feeder Corn eating a King Cobra here.

http://38.media.tumblr.com/749926bedd8655bada3713cc36a92e14/tumblr_mvno7vBPrc1rdag7yo1_500.jpg

That is a badass corn snake. I know would it die if it actually managed to swallow the king, but damn. Talk about the tables being turned.

Even if you are a strictly venomous keeper, I don't understand how you don't keep the corn snake that took out your king cobra.

[Lankyrob]

I think there's very little difference.

Like I said, it's probably not the easiest or safest way to keep them. But, I think the risks are very exaggerated. I've seen barns that are home to several rat snakes. They ignore each other.

How can there be no difference between a 6sq ft tank with no possible hope of escape and the infinity of the great outdoors? Even your example of a barn is ridiculous, how many barns are the same size as a vivarium and have no access to the outside world?

[eminart]

How can there be no difference between a 6sq ft tank with no possible hope of escape and the infinity of the great outdoors? Even your example of a barn is ridiculous, how many barns are the same size as a vivarium and have no access to the outside world?


First of all, let me reiterate, I'm not saying corns should be housed together. On the other hand, I get tired of seeing opinions spread around the internet as though they are gospel. So, I'm going to add a counter perspective here, but let's try not to turn it into a flame fest.

Snakes are not people. Snakes don't think like people. What makes you think that corn snakes want or need to get away from each other? What in snake psychology suggests that to you? No, they're not social animals. Neither are these turtles:
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_3h2GjSGm2h4/Sg8D_Zya8UI/AAAAAAAAAlo/cRIpltzEgzY/s400/Turtles+on+a+Log++75142c+-+Juanita+Bay+Park.jpg
Do you think these turtles are stressed? Do you think a snake's mind is more similar to yours or a turtle's? I see you live in the UK, so I'm assuming your experience with rat snakes in the wild is limited. No, they don't occur in the same numbers as the turtles above, but they are often congregated in areas with high prey populations, as I've mentioned. The way they behave is exactly like the turtles above. They ignore and crawl over each other, and often use the same hiding spots.

Again, I have no plans to house any corn snakes together, but if I did, I'd add an extra hide or two, just to be sure everyone had room to hide, and I'd feed them separately just to be sure none of them made a mistake. There's still some small risk that one might try to eat the other, but I think that risk is small. As far as the snakes giving a damn about a roommate, I've never seen anything in snake behavior to suggest that to be true.

[franks]

I agree with eminart. I do not suggest that a person house multiple snakes together, (and like earlier in this thread) I always recommend against it. That is because 99% of the people inquiring about it do not have the knowledge, resources, or space to pull it off. I think it is a bad idea for people like madness using a 20 gallon tank.
However this is a conversation that I do often bring up with serious and experienced keepers. I am currently building an enclosure with the plan on housing two carpets together. Like eminart said, this does happen in the wild. Alot. I have found two corns under the same rock. My brother in law lives by a stream and in the morning snakes pour out of the same rock wall to bask- rat snakes mostly but sometimes an eastern king is with them. Garter snakes are commonly found in the same burrows and close to one another. Rosy Boas spend the winter together and in dens with rattlesnakes side by side.

Rob is right that these examples cannot be translated to captive keeping because the animals are stuffed in a box and FORCED to interact by the keeper. That's a huge difference. With the right setup planned out from a person with some experience I think it could work with some species. I do not think it is the best of ideas but I think the notion that it is immediately disastrous is a bit too much. I don't have a problem with that opinion being pointed out and sometimes I will even advocate it myself to people who try to house 3 corns in a 20 gallon enclosure- I just wanted to point out that the principles we are discussing are not unilaterally deemed problematic.

I do want to add to @madness that I would strongly recommend against consistently feeding every four-five days. I think those feedings are too close together and unnatural to keep up.

[Stewjoe]

That is a badass corn snake. I know would it die if it actually managed to swallow the king, but damn. Talk about the tables being turned.

Even if you are a strictly venomous keeper, I don't understand how you don't keep the corn snake that took out your king cobra.

The Corn Snake spit out the Cobra once provoked and both snakes lived. The keeper did keep the Corn as a pet after as well.

[Madness420]

i am at every 5 days now.

[Chris72]

We don’t feed all our animals in one day....most of the time two days.

A) Put 20-30 rodent on a towel on a table (doors closed to collection)
B) Come back after 3 - 5 hrs. (dry) offer rodent with large forceps.
C) If not taken, drop in enclosure.
D) Come back later, anything left...give it to someone else.
E) I might dip a rodents head in warm water (10 sec) to warm it up if an animal has been picky for two wks or more....most take dry.
F)....only two of our animals are on live....that will change. :)

Previously we did this:
A) Put 20 - 30 rodents in a bucket of hot water.
B) Come back in 45 minutes. & refresh with new hot water. (97-105 deg)
C) Rodents out of the bucket with forceps, dab on towel, offer to snake warm + wet.


The dry method took about two months to switch all the snakes over. Some switched instantly, some took about two months.

Its cleaner and less work...but whatever works.

PS. Consider switching your Ball python from mice to rats. The snake can live happy on mice all its life but when it is a 2,500 gram animal and you only have to feed it one rat (vs three mice) a week you will be happy you switched. FYI: the younger your animal, the easier switching will be. Last year I was successful switching a 2,000g proven live feeder to dry F/T but we didn’t agree at first and that process took almost 4 months.

Compare that to switching a 400g yearling. (No effort)



Hope that helps.

[Madness420]

thanks. this is random, but whats with the decimal numbers followed by species of snake? i figure its the ones you have but how does the number system work? what does 0.1 and 9.61 mean?

[SnoopySnake]

thanks. this is random, but whats with the decimal numbers followed by species of snake? i figure its the ones you have but how does the number system work? what does 0.1 and 9.61 mean?

The first number is how many males you have, the second is females, if you see a third, its an unsexed animal, and if you see a fourth, that would be eggs.

[MDT]

Madness...seriously dude..you're putting way too much effort into feeding. Thaw, warm, offer prey item by forceps in enclosure. Move on to next cage, repeat. I have no idea what "experts" you're referencing, but quit listening to them.

[Chris72]

Madness...seriously dude..you're putting way too much effort into feeding. Thaw, warm, offer prey item by forceps in enclosure. Move on to next cage, repeat. I have no idea what "experts" you're referencing, but quit listening to them.


If he's actually doing his feeding at "420" he is likely very relaxed and in no rush

:laugh:

[franks]

Madness...seriously dude..you're putting way too much effort into feeding. Thaw, warm, offer prey item by forceps in enclosure. Move on to next cage, repeat. I have no idea what "experts" you're referencing, but quit listening to them.

He can't because he is keeping three snakes in a 20 gallon enclosure.

[Madness420]

i like to get them out, hold them, then watch them eat and put them back in the tank. im not in a rush, feeding time is cool for me. i enjoy it more than the snakes. i suppose one day when i have lots of snakes i wont be able to spend 5-15 min watching each one eat, but for now, i have 4 and i enjoy every second of every aspect associated with them. this conversation has really gotten long winded and redundant at this point. all i was asking was what do you think about my feeding technique. that question has been answered, as well as the question i never asked in the housing department. thanks for the advice and concern, i am taking it all in, but i dont need to keep hearring the same thing over and over. if you tank feed with forceps, fine. if you house individually in a plastic rack system with one hide and a water fish, fine. if you let yours roam free in the house and eat at the dinner table with your family, fine. to each their own beliefs, risks, and rewards. the bottom line is we all love these animals that the majority of the population hates because they dont understand them. i had a girl tell me to be carefull because snakes can open their mouth really wide and my corn snakes could kill and eat me one day. she also informed me that my corn snakes dont have venom because they are babies, but one day they would. i pray she was just being a smartass and not that much of a dumbass, but thats the real shame out there. i may be fairly new to keeping snakes, but i dont need my methods ripped apart like i am using pine bedding and feeding them sea urchins on a scorching heat rock. just politely state your disagreement, and leave it alone. if it is as serious as you think it is, i will most deffinately suffer the consequences myself, if not, then it wasnt worth getting bent outa shape.

[SnoopySnake]

If you're so bent on housing them together, at least give them something much bigger than a 20 gallon, and with more adequate hides. I'm guessing that there aren't enough hides since you've already stated that they all use the same one.. You should at least have 3 of the same one with the same conditions inside of it, then. So in total you should have at least 6 hides, preferably more.

[CosmicOwl]

i like to get them out, hold them, then watch them eat and put them back in the tank. im not in a rush, feeding time is cool for me. i enjoy it more than the snakes. i suppose one day when i have lots of snakes i wont be able to spend 5-15 min watching each one eat, but for now, i have 4 and i enjoy every second of every aspect associated with them. this conversation has really gotten long winded and redundant at this point. all i was asking was what do you think about my feeding technique. that question has been answered, as well as the question i never asked in the housing department. thanks for the advice and concern, i am taking it all in, but i dont need to keep hearring the same thing over and over. if you tank feed with forceps, fine. if you house individually in a plastic rack system with one hide and a water fish, fine. if you let yours roam free in the house and eat at the dinner table with your family, fine. to each their own beliefs, risks, and rewards. the bottom line is we all love these animals that the majority of the population hates because they dont understand them. i had a girl tell me to be carefull because snakes can open their mouth really wide and my corn snakes could kill and eat me one day. she also informed me that my corn snakes dont have venom because they are babies, but one day they would. i pray she was just being a smartass and not that much of a dumbass, but thats the real shame out there. i may be fairly new to keeping snakes, but i dont need my methods ripped apart like i am using pine bedding and feeding them sea urchins on a scorching heat rock. just politely state your disagreement, and leave it alone. if it is as serious as you think it is, i will most deffinately suffer the consequences myself, if not, then it wasnt worth getting bent outa shape.

I respectfully disagree. You opened yourself up to criticism by posting YOUR beliefs on a website where some uninformed person could read them and decided to follow your lead. Keeping multiple snakes in one enclosure is a risk that a responsible keeper should not be willing to take. The evidence is out there showing that even snakes that DO NOT usually prey on other snakes will in fact become ophiophagus when housed with other snakes. This is not a matter of opinion, it is a matter of fact. If you spread ignorance and poor husbandry on this forum, users are going to rightfully annoyed.

If you're so bent on housing them together, at least give them something much bigger than a 20 gallon, and with more adequate hides. I'm guessing that there aren't enough hides since you've already stated that they all use the same one.. You should at least have 3 of the same one with the same conditions inside of it, then. So in total you should have at least 6 hides, preferably more.

I don't even understand the point of housing them together. Why do it? I want to provide my snakes with as much space as I can, not cram them all into one enclosure that is barely big enough for one snake.

[Madness420]

i have 3 baby corns, not yearlings, not adults. people keep snakes this size in containers smaller than shoeboxes. the 20g tank is temporary. i dont plan on keeping more than one adult in a tank that size. i am probably going to switch over to some sort of rack system pretty soon. if you would like to shed light on that, i would appreciate it. i would like to convert the shelf i am already using, and utilize the most energy efficient way of heating. the shelves are 2ft deep by 3ft wide, and i can add shelves pretty easily.

[Aaron_S]

...if it is as serious as you think it is, i will most deffinately suffer the consequences myself, if not, then it wasnt worth getting bent outa shape.

Respectfully disagree here. The snakes, not you, suffer the consequences.

[Madness420]

^i would be negatively affected as well. i do love my snakes.

[CosmicOwl]

i have 3 baby corns, not yearlings, not adults. people keep snakes this size in containers smaller than shoeboxes. the 20g tank is temporary. i dont plan on keeping more than one adult in a tank that size. i am probably going to switch over to some sort of rack system pretty soon. if you would like to shed light on that, i would appreciate it. i would like to convert the shelf i am already using, and utilize the most energy efficient way of heating. the shelves are 2ft deep by 3ft wide, and i can add shelves pretty easily.

And from a safety perspective, that would be a better option than keeping three snakes in a 20 gallon. And forgive me for not believing that the situation is temporary. I've heard that from many people who never change the situation. I'll admit that I have even used that excuse and had animals suffer the consequences. If you wanted people to take you seriously, you'd stop defending cohabing. You're saying that you'll make strides to house them separately, but you're also saying that you think it can be done successfully and that it's just a difference of opinion. Can you blame people for doubting your claims?

If you really want to house them separately, it's as easy as getting two 15 gallon rubbermaid(or similar brand) tubs, and two more UTHs. It would likely cost you no more than 50-80 dollars.

[Madness420]

from an energy use standpoint, would it be worth getting strips of heat tape vs 3 UTH's?

[Aaron_S]

^i would be negatively affected as well. i do love my snakes.

You'd live for another day. Your snakes may likely not.

I hope your ball python is kept separately.

[Madness420]

yes my bp is separate. and i am at walmart now looking to get 3 plastic tubs. i only have $55 until thursday so i am going to try to get tubs and UTH's but if i can only get tubs they'll be roomies one more week. i will probably switch my bp to the 20g tank to give him more space. eventually he may get the plastic tub as well, which brings about a question... does it stress them to go from a very spacious aquarium to a basic rubbermaid setup?

[Stewjoe]

Don't use heat pads without a way to control and monitor the heat.

[franks]

yes my bp is separate. and i am at walmart now looking to get 3 plastic tubs. i only have $55 until thursday so i am going to try to get tubs and UTH's but if i can only get tubs they'll be roomies one more week. i will probably switch my bp to the 20g tank to give him more space. eventually he may get the plastic tub as well, which brings about a question... does it stress them to go from a very spacious aquarium to a basic rubbermaid setup?

I think they will acclimate quickly and feel less stressed in a new environment than in their current setup. Forgive the rudeness of some of us. I believe that you are serious about doing what is best for your animals, but it did not come across that way at first and you said the right key words to make us a bit "jumpy."

A ball python does not acclimate to a 20 gallon fishtank as well as a corn snake will. It is not ideal but it can certainly work for you with a few cheap modifications. The two biggest are: cover the top of the tank (plywood, saran wrap, tin foil, plexiglass) and cover three sides of the fishtank. You can just tape cardboard to the outside for this one. You will want to use a UTH with this setup.

[Aaron_S]

yes my bp is separate. and i am at walmart now looking to get 3 plastic tubs. i only have $55 until thursday so i am going to try to get tubs and UTH's but if i can only get tubs they'll be roomies one more week. i will probably switch my bp to the 20g tank to give him more space. eventually he may get the plastic tub as well, which brings about a question... does it stress them to go from a very spacious aquarium to a basic rubbermaid setup?

No. Snakes don't think that way. They generally prefer cozier quarters so they don't really care for the 'spacious' aquarium compared to a tub.

[Madness420]

i moved the corns out of the 20g and into 3 separate tubs. i then moved my bp to the 20gal tank where he has a UTH, a heat lamp, 1 hide on each side of the tank, water dish under the heat lamp which keeps it humid, some fake leaves, and 3 climbing options, one at each end and one in the middle. its a little roomy for his size but the hides are snug and it is in a cabinate that is basically like having 3 sides covered.

[LiL Zap]

From this point on, I think everyone can lay off Madness. I'm sure he gets the point by now. We've all made mistakes as keepers at some point.

[Madness420]

From this point on, I think everyone can lay off Madness. I'm sure he gets the point by now. We've all made mistakes as keepers at some point.

thanks. heres my new corn setup...

[SnoopySnake]

That's much better :) If it were me my OCD would take over and I'd end up putting the blue lid in the middle hahaha :p

[EL Ziggy]

Good job Mad. I'm sure your snakes will appreciate their own rooms :). Are the lids pretty secure on your tubs? Your snakes can't push them off can they? I just set up a tub tonight for a new bull snake I'm expecting and that was my biggest concern. Luckily the tub I found has latches on both sides and both ends. Best wishes.

[Madness420]

That's much better :) If it were me my OCD would take over and I'd end up putting the blue lid in the middle hahaha :p

i have the blue lid on the male and the pink lids on the females.

[EL Ziggy]

i have the blue lid on the male and the pink lids on the females.

Then the male should definitely be in the middle :)

[Madness420]

Good job Mad. I'm sure your snakes will appreciate their own rooms :). Are the lids pretty secure on your tubs? Your snakes can't push them off can they? I just set up a tub tonight for a new bull snake I'm expecting and that was my biggest concern. Luckily the tub I found has latches on both sides and both ends. Best wishes.

they are pretty secure. one of them already tried crawling up to the top and looking for an escape and the lid passed the test. i am gonna build a rack system at some point where they will simply slide out an no lid will be required. i already have some of those plastic shelves that stack on top of each other, i just need some plastic to screw to the bottoms to create a "ceiling" and cut the poles down to the correct hight.

[Madness420]

Then the male should definitely be in the middle :)

idk wut my thought process was, i just did it that way. now that i know it bothers you i think it needs to stay like it is.

[NewSAHSnakeMom]

Freaking out the OCD's I like it! ;)

[Madness420]

i have a puppy named blaze :)

[NewSAHSnakeMom]

My daughter's middle name is Blaise she named her snake after herself Lmao!

[Madness420]

thats pretty cool

[NewSAHSnakeMom]

Thanks dude :)

[shaunyboy]

Feeding outside of the snake's primary enclosure is unnecessary and based on an outdated idea. All it does is add extra stress to the animal.

^^^^^
this

its NOT about what the human wants.....


its about whats best for the snake...

re logic
feeding outside the cage in order to stop a snake associating the tank doors being opened with food,so the snake becomes a biter every time the door opens,is nonsense...

if you apply that same logic to them being fed out the tank in a tub,then surely it would associate being taken out with being fed,so start biting every time its taken out...

never ceases to amaze me that people apply the logic to the parts that suits their views.buy never the whole situation

handling a snake after feeding can cause or heighten the chance of a regurge,why take the chance ?

feed the snake in its tank,where it feels most secure and also does not require you handling the snake after its ate


cheers shaun

[Madness420]

i need to tap train in that case right?

[franks]

i need to tap train in that case right?

Honestly it is not necessary for a corn snake.

[Mikoh4792]

i need to tap train in that case right?

No you don't. And even if you did, that'd mean you'd need to tap train even when feeding in a separate enclosure. Feeding inside the enclosure means nothing. The snake does not associate certain places with food. In the wild a corn snake does not associate a rock or a log for example,.. with food. It eats anywhere, anytime. The difference in captivity being, you are moving your snake before and after feeding if you feed in a separate enclosure which is completely unnecessary.

[LiL Zap]

thanks. heres my new corn setup...

Looks good! Keep it up! :)