View Full Version : Switching Ball Python to f/t mice?
I have have 1 month old Ball Python, the breeder said he didn't have enough time to switch him from live to frozen/thawed.
Here is a timeline
July 19th - Purchased
July 21st - Food day, didn't eat
July 22st (night) - Retry, he didn't eat... Place mouse in terrarium overnight. Unsuccessful.
July 23rd - Not sure what to do
NOTE: I've tried feeding hooper and large pinkies
EL Ziggy
07-23-14, 02:37 PM
You can try braining the prey or placing the snake and mouse in a deli cup/small container overnight. You can also try feeding a very small live prey item and follow it up immediately with a f/t prey item. Keep trying but only offer food every 7 days and he'll eat eventually. Best wishes and keep us posted.
Give it a week and try again. A couple days is not enough time for him to get used to his new home. Balls are naturally shy and need to feel safe in their home before they will eat. Pre-scenting can help a lot, while I have the rodent thawing I'll take the hemostats I feed with and dip them in the water then stick it in the tubs vent holes. You could also dip a bit of paper towel in the water and put it in the enclosure. Gets their mouth watering so to speak. Another thing I find helpful is to offer the rodents very warm to the touch. Pythons have heat sensing pits and a warm rodent really gets their attention. I just use warm tap water to warm the rodents. If he is still hesitant try braining the rodent. It's a little gross but often is the last little push they need to get started. Just use a sharp knife to split the rodents skull and expose brain matter. If he still wont take it give it another week and try again. In the meantime give us some more info on his home, temps, humidity, hides etc. Pictures would be awesome and help a lot. Also, since you're already making the switch to F/T you may as well go to rats as soon as possible too.
virtuousvixen
07-23-14, 03:15 PM
When i got my BP a month ago. he was 2 months old. I left him to settle in a week before i attempted to fed him. The first two feeds i had to put his food right in front of him in order for him to take it. Now you barely get it into the tub before he has grabbed it from you.
Aaron_S
07-23-14, 03:29 PM
I have have 1 month old Ball Python, the breeder said he didn't have enough time to switch him from live to frozen/thawed.
Here is a timeline
July 19th - Purchased
July 21st - Food day, didn't eat
July 22st (night) - Retry, he didn't eat... Place mouse in terrarium overnight. Unsuccessful.
July 23rd - Not sure what to do
NOTE: I've tried feeding hooper and large pinkies
Too many attempts in too frequent of a time line.
What I recommend all people with baby ball pythons to do is a couple easy steps.
1. The key is to be consistent! Offer only once every 5 days.
2. As above be consistent with the prey item! I use a live hopper mouse for the first couple of meals of my baby ball pythons. You should do the same to establish it eating before switching to frozen/thawed.
3. Double check all husbandry to ensure it's 100% accurate, then check it again. Many times this is the issue and not the snake itself.
Give the snake 5 days with leaving it alone and then offer it a live hopper mouse or whatever it was eating at the breeders.
Lastly, why didn't the breeder "have time" to switch the snake to f/t? Why was he or she in such a hurry to sell the snake? For me, I don't even put them up for sale until they are eating F/T.
aaron_cg
07-23-14, 07:55 PM
Listen to Aaron_s when it comes to B.P.'s...
Guys am expert on them.
Too many attempts in too frequent of a time line.
What I recommend all people with baby ball pythons to do is a couple easy steps.
1. The key is to be consistent! Offer only once every 5 days.
2. As above be consistent with the prey item! I use a live hopper mouse for the first couple of meals of my baby ball pythons. You should do the same to establish it eating before switching to frozen/thawed.
3. Double check all husbandry to ensure it's 100% accurate, then check it again. Many times this is the issue and not the snake itself.
Give the snake 5 days with leaving it alone and then offer it a live hopper mouse or whatever it was eating at the breeders.
Lastly, why didn't the breeder "have time" to switch the snake to f/t? Why was he or she in such a hurry to sell the snake? For me, I don't even put them up for sale until they are eating F/T.
Very informative, hopefully I didn't do any damage from stressing him out. I am so used to Milk Snakes eating everything it sees. Lol
I'll probably go and buy a live hopper if he doesn't eat my f/t this weekend?
Also I'll get some pics up soon of his place, but he has:
3 hides
40-50% humidity
1/3 90f under the tank heater
Just a update, here is a heat map of my terrarium.
http://i.imgur.com/xV6GbmL.jpg - temperatures were done via IR temp gun.
http://i.imgur.com/W0dtwSr.jpg - humidity level
http://i.imgur.com/wFq8hEz.jpg - The snake himself
Also about why the breeder wasn't able to switch him to f/t is beyond me.
I found him for a good deal at a reptile expo and he seemed cool, later found out he said he "didn't have time to switch their new snakes to f/t"
millertime89
07-24-14, 05:22 PM
Those dial hygrometers are junk. Pick up a digital one.
Those dial hygrometers are junk. Pick up a digital one.
I have two terrarium working on getting another one.
65-70 is way to cold for a Ball. Cool side temps shouldn't drop below the upper 70's. Wrap the sides and back with black construction paper or something, he is to exposed. Balls are very shy, if they do not feel secure they become stressed. Cover the screen top with plastic or tin foil to keep heat and humidity in. Aquariums can be a major pain to dial in for a Ball Python, they are far from ideal enclosures. You could save yourself and your snake a lot of trouble by putting him in a plastic tub. Balls spent the majority of their lives in holes in the ground (termite mounds, rodent burrows etc.), a little plastic tub mimics their natural habitat much better than a big glass aquarium ever will. I know lot of people want to keep their Ball in an aquarium so they can see it but they just are not that kind of snake.
65-70 is way to cold for a Ball. Cool side temps shouldn't drop below the upper 70's. Wrap the sides and back with black construction paper or something, he is to exposed. Balls are very shy, if they do not feel secure they become stressed. Cover the screen top with plastic or tin foil to keep heat and humidity in. Aquariums can be a major pain to dial in for a Ball Python, they are far from ideal enclosures. You could save yourself and your snake a lot of trouble by putting him in a plastic tub. Balls spent the majority of their lives in holes in the ground (termite mounds, rodent burrows etc.), a little plastic tub mimics their natural habitat much better than a big glass aquarium ever will. I know lot of people want to keep their Ball in an aquarium so they can see it but they just are not that kind of snake.
That's disappointing news, so if I cover the sides (top & left/right) I should be fine?
I hate the look of plastic bins. Also how can I easily heat the right side?
I agree with everything FWK said. Best alternative would be to make your own enclosure. If you want to stick with the fishtank, I would cover the entire top and use a UTH. You can use plastic vines to cover the sides and
I agree with everything FWK said. Best alternative would be to make your own enclosure. If you want to stick with the fishtank, I would cover the entire top and use a UTH. You can use plastic vines to cover the sides and
I'll probably switch to another terrarium, but I'll do a little modification temporary.
Is there a decent terrarium I can get that has glass on one side? Or maybe a DIY tutorial?
EDIT: I am using a UTH, the hot spot is the heater. It's covering 1/3 of the tank.
With a thermostat set at 90f.
Their are plenty of PVC and plastic cages you can buy. They are more expensive than a fishtank but are fairly reasonable. If you are fairly handy and think you can make a box out of plywood feel free to PM me and I will talk you through making acrylic doors. This is the reason. Many like tubs for their ball pythons. You can certainly keep a healthy ball python in the fishtank, it would just need a little modification. If you could solidly cover the 3 sides and top you are fine as long as it is not right in front of an air conditioner.
I did some modifications to his terrarium as recommended.
http://i.imgur.com/9RBTyFs.jpg
Added sides + foil on top.
I'll check the temperatures of the right side later, hopefully it gets warmer.
Just tried feeding him again, he doesn't seem as stressed but he refused the mouse.
I left it in the terrarium for tonight.
I'll wait until Wednesday or so and probably buy a live hopper?
Just tried feeding him again, he doesn't seem as stressed but he refused the mouse.
I left it in the terrarium for tonight.
I'll wait until Wednesday or so and probably buy a live hopper?
Patience. If he was mine I wouldn't even open his enclosure for a week other than to change his water. Give him time to adjust and then offer food again.
Patience. If he was mine I wouldn't even open his enclosure for a week other than to change his water. Give him time to adjust and then offer food again.
Okay, guess I'm getting nervous of him going off food for so long because he is a baby... but it shouldn't matter right? How long can he go without eating?
He can go without eating until he starts losing weight. Could be months honestly. Get a scale and keep tabs on him. One of the reasons ball pythons can be tough on new snake owners is because it is hard to watch your pet just go completely off food. It is not uncommon with these guys. You can be doing everything right and sometimes he will just not eat- however, this is the time to triple check your husbandry. I would suggest (like the above) that you do not even open the enclosure for a week. Leave him be, give him a day/night cycle. In a week, crank the heat up a bit high during the day, and at night spray down the enclosure nice and good, then put the food in. This generally worked on my ball pythons. Something about this made them hungry and they would cruise for food.
One more thing: I would not give up on f/t just yet. It is so much easier for you and safer for your snake. Good luck.
He can go without eating until he starts losing weight. Could be months honestly. Get a scale and keep tabs on him. One of the reasons ball pythons can be tough on new snake owners is because it is hard to watch your pet just go completely off food. It is not uncommon with these guys. You can be doing everything right and sometimes he will just not eat- however, this is the time to triple check your husbandry. I would suggest (like the above) that you do not even open the enclosure for a week. Leave him be, give him a day/night cycle. In a week, crank the heat up a bit high during the day, and at night spray down the enclosure nice and good, then put the food in. This generally worked on my ball pythons. Something about this made them hungry and they would cruise for food.
One more thing: I would not give up on f/t just yet. It is so much easier for you and safer for your snake. Good luck.
I'll do that then, good to hear they can go a good time without food.
I have a hydrofarm thermostat, I'll try dropping the temps at night.
Also the right side warmed up after applying sides to the terrarium.
Lastly, the last time I tried feeding him here is what he did the whole time.
http://i.imgur.com/zuWrz1Y.jpg
I tried killing the mouse then feeding it to him, no luck and that's what he does to f/t and pre-killed.
I was way zoomed in and didn't distract him, it's strange. It's like he is scared of his terrarium.
So since I tried feeding him recently I should wait until next weekend?
Some questions about feeding:
1. Should I be leaving the mouse in the terrarium and leave it or should I dangle it over his mouth? I've done both.
2. How long should I try to feed him by dangling the prey in-front of him?
3. Why does he hiss at the prey and breath really heavy? Like he fears the prey?
Also how much day/night time should he have during summer?
Honestly the problem seems like it's with you more than the snake. That's a good thing. I mean absolutely no disrespect vypr- we all had to learn from someone. Your snake is acting like a normal ball python. Some eat right out of the gate and never look back, many don't. Here's what's going on there- your snake is feeling threatened and is perceiving the mouse as a threat, not food. Your presence is not helping. Trying to bait him with tongs is not helping right now either. He needs to acclimate. Many ball pythons will simply not eat if they feel vulnerable, and the process of eating puts the snake in a vulnerable way. Here are a few things you can do right now. It seems there is a little room in the hide. If you want to put a rock in there it may help your snake. I know it sounds wierd but ball pythons like to feel all there sides touching their burrow or hide. The tighter the better. When you go to feed again, try leaving the prey warm and in a hide directly across from him. Put it in when the lights go out and don't check on him until the morning. Whatever you think you can do to make him feel secure is your goal right now. If he feels comfortable enough he will probably eat for you. This is a temporary thing. Once he starts taking food and living through it he will eat with more regularity. Even great eating
Adults will go off food sometimes but once you get your guy eating you can start having a pet snake. Resist the urge to be concerned right now. Just be patient- they come around.
Edit: a day night cycle is not necessary for ball pythons I just think it may help him eat. I like keeping all my snakes on a light cycle but that is personal preference.
Very informative, no offensive taken... I do suck at snake care.
I'll do what you said and put the mouse in another hide away from him.
I'll also try and find a rock for his hides, there is about double the room compared to him.
I just used this hide
Amazon.com : Exo Terra Rock Outcrops - Small : Aquarium Decor Rocks : Pet Supplies (http://www.amazon.com/Exo-Terra-Rock-Outcrops-Small/dp/B001B5DJAG/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1406422914&sr=8-1&keywords=outcrop+small) (Pics on amazon not accurate)
It's literally the size of him, maybe smaller.
Hopefully that is snug, I couldn't find some good sized rocks.
My Milk Snake loved that hide, hopefully it helps make him feel more secure.
I also placed another hide directly adjacent from the other hide with the mouse barely visible.
I am going to need to order another one of those hides if my BP loves it, my Milk Snake probably already misses it.
I also placed a small bulb to heat up the other side of the tank to 75-80f.
Everything should be adequate now. I'll resist the urge to mess/touch/make noises around the terrarium.
He will come around. This is half the fun of keeping a snake.
Aaron_S
07-26-14, 07:10 PM
Very informative, hopefully I didn't do any damage from stressing him out. I am so used to Milk Snakes eating everything it sees. Lol
I'll probably go and buy a live hopper if he doesn't eat my f/t this weekend?
Also I'll get some pics up soon of his place, but he has:
3 hides
40-50% humidity
1/3 90f under the tank heater
I'm going to answer this in a couple posts as I'm too lazy to multi-quote.
Yes I would just go with the live hopper anyway.
If you can up the humidity that would be good too. Another 10 - 15%. A spray once a day would be fine. Just don't spray your lamp.
Aaron_S
07-26-14, 07:20 PM
I'll do that then, good to hear they can go a good time without food.
I have a hydrofarm thermostat, I'll try dropping the temps at night.
Also the right side warmed up after applying sides to the terrarium.
Lastly, the last time I tried feeding him here is what he did the whole time.
http://i.imgur.com/zuWrz1Y.jpg
I tried killing the mouse then feeding it to him, no luck and that's what he does to f/t and pre-killed.
I was way zoomed in and didn't distract him, it's strange. It's like he is scared of his terrarium.
So since I tried feeding him recently I should wait until next weekend?
Some questions about feeding:
1. Should I be leaving the mouse in the terrarium and leave it or should I dangle it over his mouth? I've done both.
2. How long should I try to feed him by dangling the prey in-front of him?
3. Why does he hiss at the prey and breath really heavy? Like he fears the prey?
Also how much day/night time should he have during summer?
From the pic, it looks like your snake is interested. Probably not feeling secure enough to eat yet is my guess without assessing the situation first hand.
Frank has given some good advice.
Your hides are nice and big and he'll grow into them but as Frank suggested they like it tighter and the rock idea is great. If you don't mind the look, for now, you can use cardboard boxes until he's bigger. They just want to feel secure on all sides. (Side note: Ensure you can access the snake so no bottom or removable top)
As for feeding, go with the live for now, 5 days apart. Just drop it in in the evening. Sit far back and watch. Snake should show interest in 20 minutes or less.
Quick Update -- he loves the new hide.
He is almost too snug! LOL! He seems happy.
I'm going to answer this in a couple posts as I'm too lazy to multi-quote.
Yes I would just go with the live hopper anyway.
If you can up the humidity that would be good too. Another 10 - 15%. A spray once a day would be fine. Just don't spray your lamp.
So I should try and maintain 60% humidity?
Lankyrob
07-27-14, 01:32 AM
So I should try and maintain 60% humidity?
I used to keep mine at a minimum of 60-65% and up it to 75% at shed time.
Another update for awhile -- the pre-killed mouse I left in his a hide across from another hide he was in didn't work out. He actually slept right next to the mouse in the same hide, curled up next to it.
I removed the mouse and I will not mess with the terrarium for another week.
EDIT: It's strange, not sure why but he is rubbing his nose against items in his terrarium... kind of like he is shedding. Strange.
EDIT2: He is really going at it, he is rubbing his nose on a branch, rock, and substrate.
The same way my Milk Snake does to shed.
Did the breeder give me a younger snake or something?
He is shedding now, I thought since he was 3 weeks old when I got him he wouldn't need to shed for awhile. He showed no signs of shedding (no blue eyes, pink belly, etc).
I placed a big container full of water (slightly warm), the humidity is 75%. I sprayed down the whole terrarium.
I've only raised one BP from a hatching but it shed every four weeks like clockwork for the first six months or so. Yours may have just had his second shed. It doesn't seem likely it was his first unless the breeder you got him from is really shady. But then he said he didn't have time to switch it to F/T so who knows... I've heard of snakes who shed without ever showing signs of being in shed but I've never seen it myself. Either way he has been in a shed cycle the whole time you've had him and that is probably just another part of the not eating equation.
Another update for awhile -- the pre-killed mouse I left in his a hide across from another hide he was in didn't work out. He actually slept right next to the mouse in the same hide, curled up next to it.
I removed the mouse and I will not mess with the terrarium for another week.
You are only adding to his stress by repeatedly offering food when he has made it clear he isn't ready to eat. Follow through on leaving him alone this time. Cover the front of the tank to remind you to leave him alone if you have to.
I've only raised one BP from a hatching but it shed every four weeks like clockwork for the first six months or so. Yours may have just had his second shed. It doesn't seem likely it was his first unless the breeder you got him from is really shady. But then he said he didn't have time to switch it to F/T so who knows... I've heard of snakes who shed without ever showing signs of being in shed but I've never seen it myself. Either way he has been in a shed cycle the whole time you've had him and that is probably just another part of the not eating equation.
You are only adding to his stress by repeatedly offering food when he has made it clear he isn't ready to eat. Follow through on leaving him alone this time. Cover the front of the tank to remind you to leave him alone if you have to.
Yep, other than misting and replacing water I'll not mess with his terrarium.
Next weekend he will probably eat
Aaron_S
07-28-14, 06:44 AM
He is shedding now, I thought since he was 3 weeks old when I got him he wouldn't need to shed for awhile. He showed no signs of shedding (no blue eyes, pink belly, etc).
I placed a big container full of water (slightly warm), the humidity is 75%. I sprayed down the whole terrarium.
Don't buy from this "breeder" again.
Anyway it looks like the shed may have stopped the eating. It's okay. I would just offer a new pre-killed meal on Wednesday.
Don't buy from this "breeder" again.
Anyway it looks like the shed may have stopped the eating. It's okay. I would just offer a new pre-killed meal on Wednesday.
He did seem kind of strange, I just purchased from him because he was selling his BP for $20.
So far he seems to be doing better, his shed seems to have went well... but there is still a bit of flakiness, nothing too serious.
I am also thinking of upgrading to another substrate that absorbs moisture better, is Repti Bark good?
Aaron_S
07-28-14, 04:14 PM
He did seem kind of strange, I just purchased from him because he was selling his BP for $20.
So far he seems to be doing better, his shed seems to have went well... but there is still a bit of flakiness, nothing too serious.
It's a sign your humidity is low is all. I know you didn't know he was shedding so don't worry about it this time.
When you notice the next time I would dump the water dish into the enclosure then refill it. It's what I do with my bins and I get perfect sheds every time.
It's a sign your humidity is low is all. I know you didn't know he was shedding so don't worry about it this time.
When you notice the next time I would dump the water dish into the enclosure then refill it. It's what I do with my bins and I get perfect sheds every time.
It's very wet and humid, but about you saying feeding him penkilled on Wednesday.
I probably won't be able to go to the let store for a bit, should I retry f/t or what?
Just an update on everything so far:
I last tried to feed him the 30th of July (f/t)
The cool side is now 78-82f, hot side still around 90 +-2
The humidity was 75% during his shed, now 50%. Full shed finished two days ago.
The hide he is using is very small and he fits snug
The sides are enclosed - I keep the area quiet and hardly ever open the terrarium.
I have him on a daily/nightly schedule with a fluorescent bulb.
What is my next step?
Feed him Wednesday, this weekend, or another time?
What should I feed him? Retry F/T, prekilled, live?
Any other recommendations, I'm going to try to do everything perfect.
Also I'm wanting to switch him to either repti bark or coconut bark, should I wait until he is more comfortable?
I always cringe when I see posts like this. I rarely hear good outcomes.
My advice - DO NOT try to feed him for 5-7 days. Try whatever prey you want him to eat. If it is f/t, you can live it in overnight. Never leavei live prey unattended with your snake.
Best of luck.
I always cringe when I see posts like this. I rarely hear good outcomes.
My advice - DO NOT try to feed him for 5-7 days. Try whatever prey you want him to eat. If it is f/t, you can live it in overnight. Never leavei live prey unattended with your snake.
Best of luck.
Yep as I've mentioned in my previous post I've switched to every 7 days.
This upcoming Wednesday will mark the 7th day.
Just an update on everything so far:
I last tried to feed him the 30th of July (f/t)
The cool side is now 78-82f, hot side still around 90 +-2
The humidity was 75% during his shed, now 50%. Full shed finished two days ago.
The hide he is using is very small and he fits snug
The sides are enclosed - I keep the area quiet and hardly ever open the terrarium.
I have him on a daily/nightly schedule with a fluorescent bulb.
What is my next step?
Feed him Wednesday, this weekend, or another time?
What should I feed him? Retry F/T, prekilled, live?
Any other recommendations, I'm going to try to do everything perfect.
Also I'm wanting to switch him to either repti bark or coconut bark, should I wait until he is more comfortable?
I have used coco bark before in mixtures but I am convinced that the fine fibers irritate some snakes when dry. If you try it just keep an eye and be ready to switch if the snake starts acting differently
I have used coco bark before in mixtures but I am convinced that the fine fibers irritate some snakes when dry. If you try it just keep an eye and be ready to switch if the snake starts acting differently
That makes sense, I just want to get a better humidity maintaining substrate other than my aspen.
Aaron_S
08-03-14, 11:24 AM
Just an update on everything so far:
I last tried to feed him the 30th of July (f/t)
The cool side is now 78-82f, hot side still around 90 +-2
The humidity was 75% during his shed, now 50%. Full shed finished two days ago.
The hide he is using is very small and he fits snug
The sides are enclosed - I keep the area quiet and hardly ever open the terrarium.
I have him on a daily/nightly schedule with a fluorescent bulb.
What is my next step?
Feed him Wednesday, this weekend, or another time?
What should I feed him? Retry F/T, prekilled, live?
Any other recommendations, I'm going to try to do everything perfect.
Also I'm wanting to switch him to either repti bark or coconut bark, should I wait until he is more comfortable?
Just wait to switch the substrate. Aspen does fine. I used it in my bins for awhile.
I would feed on the 7th day whatever prey item you choose.
Personally, since we've written off the breeder at this point my guess is it's used to eating live and I would do that but you can try f/t before going that route if you wish.
Just wait to switch the substrate. Aspen does fine. I used it in my bins for awhile.
I would feed on the 7th day whatever prey item you choose.
Personally, since we've written off the breeder at this point my guess is it's used to eating live and I would do that but you can try f/t before going that route if you wish.
Would it make it easier for him to switch to f/t later?
Maybe feed him live now then switch whenever he feels more comfortable?
Cmwells90
08-04-14, 04:20 PM
I've had quite a few BPs and I can say this is something you'll get use to, make sure your cage is set up correctly, which it seems like it is. I covered all sides of my BPs cage with paper towels so they can't see me pass by and they become comfortable with their home, after awhile I'll remove this depending on the snake. If you want to get him moved over the F/T eventually I would say now is as good a time as any. The sooner you start the sooner he'll switch it just takes work. Offer F/T food weekly, if he starts to lose weight, and it's becoming a concern, then I would say provide live, otherwise stay on the F/T, in the long run it's better for him, and you can store more food so you don't have to travel for food as often. I've had a BP go 6 months~ without feeding and he didn't lose any weight, then after winter he ate just fine.
I've had quite a few BPs and I can say this is something you'll get use to, make sure your cage is set up correctly, which it seems like it is. I covered all sides of my BPs cage with paper towels so they can't see me pass by and they become comfortable with their home, after awhile I'll remove this depending on the snake. If you want to get him moved over the F/T eventually I would say now is as good a time as any. The sooner you start the sooner he'll switch it just takes work. Offer F/T food weekly, if he starts to lose weight, and it's becoming a concern, then I would say provide live, otherwise stay on the F/T, in the long run it's better for him, and you can store more food so you don't have to travel for food as often. I've had a BP go 6 months~ without feeding and he didn't lose any weight, then after winter he ate just fine.
Okay great, he already looks Skinner from when I got him.
I'll probably try f/t two more times then do live.
Also why does he always get in the striking position whenever he sees me? Is this normal behaviour?
Cmwells90
08-05-14, 10:21 AM
Cage defense is normal, I hook train my snakes and it makes life a LOT easier. I just tap my boa on the head with the snake hook when I'm ready to take her out, it lets her know she's not being fed she's being handled, and I can see an immediate change in behavior. I think it's a good thing for a snake to be defensive, it's a natural behavior, but once they're on the hook they calm down a lot, usually! Remember, he doesn't know you're friendly, he just knows your big and could hurt him, so he's ready to defend himself if needed. Also, have you been measuring his weight or is the "skinner" look just a sight determination?
Cage defense is normal, I hook train my snakes and it makes life a LOT easier. I just tap my boa on the head with the snake hook when I'm ready to take her out, it lets her know she's not being fed she's being handled, and I can see an immediate change in behavior. I think it's a good thing for a snake to be defensive, it's a natural behavior, but once they're on the hook they calm down a lot, usually! Remember, he doesn't know you're friendly, he just knows your big and could hurt him, so he's ready to defend himself if needed. Also, have you been measuring his weight or is the "skinner" look just a sight determination?
No, he just looks slimmer. Probably >10% less in thickness of his mid body.
Will they also calm down with age or will he always be defense like he is?
It seems other people's ball pythons are more chill
I just tried feeding him F/T, it was 7 days after his previous try.
It was unsuccessful again, I tried to feed him at night since they're nocturnal also.
It was dark and he was sticking his head outside of the hide, I dangled the F/T hopper in front of him but he defensive bit the mouse and ran into his hide.
I got him out of his hide just in case and dangling it for another try, he just stared at it.
I put his hide back and left him alone.
I guess I'll try F/T or maybe even live next week, very annoying.
EDIT: I am also leaving the mouse across from his hide overnight.
Cmwells90
08-06-14, 08:54 AM
Have you tried to brain the mouse? It'll probably do the trick, I've never had a snake refuse. But the cage defense will settle down as he gets more comfortable with you, BPs are usually very calm snakes.
Aaron_S
08-06-14, 02:55 PM
Have you tried to brain the mouse? It'll probably do the trick, I've never had a snake refuse. But the cage defense will settle down as he gets more comfortable with you, BPs are usually very calm snakes.
Shouldn't need to.
Live hopper mouse usually does the trick for my really young ones.
Cmwells90
08-06-14, 04:03 PM
Shouldn't need to.
Live hopper mouse usually does the trick for my really young ones.
Live hopper, yes. but if he's trying to switch to F/T shoudln't he stick with the offering of only F/T?
Aaron_S
08-06-14, 04:22 PM
Live hopper, yes. but if he's trying to switch to F/T shoudln't he stick with the offering of only F/T?
That's a valid point.
I believe this ball python to be much younger than originally believed and I would want to get some food in it's belly. Switching young ball pythons usually isn't a hassle.
It's up to vypr to go with what they think is best as we aren't able to see the situation firsthand.
I appreciate your differing opinions so members can see two different ways to approach things.
Cmwells90
08-06-14, 04:25 PM
That's a valid point.
I believe this ball python to be much younger than originally believed and I would want to get some food in it's belly. Switching young ball pythons usually isn't a hassle.
I was thinking the exact same thing, and had the same worry. It may be young and hasn't had much of a first meal, the breeder obviously sold them in a hurry!
I guess I'll just buy live next week, thanks for the suggestions.
I'll just hope he eats f/t later
Cmwells90
08-07-14, 10:10 AM
I guess I'll just buy live next week, thanks for the suggestions.
I'll just hope he eats f/t later
I'm sure it's something he'll switch to later, it usually isn't too difficult.
Random question, but whenever I feed him live should I let the mouse roam until my snake finds him (while monitoring) or should I intervene?
Aaron_S
08-08-14, 08:17 AM
Random question, but whenever I feed him live should I let the mouse roam until my snake finds him (while monitoring) or should I intervene?
Just drop the mouse in. Maybe remove the snakes hide to ensure it's awake (depending on the time of day you feed at).
That's all. The snake will do the rest.
Just drop the mouse in. Maybe remove the snakes hide to ensure it's awake (depending on the time of day you feed at).
That's all. The snake will do the rest.
I figured, just wanted to make his feeding as delicious as possible. Lol
What time would be the best to feed? Night? I'm awake all the time
Cmwells90
08-08-14, 10:28 AM
They are nocturnal, so night may be best.
Aaron_S
08-08-14, 10:28 AM
I figured, just wanted to make his feeding as delicious as possible. Lol
What time would be the best to feed? Night? I'm awake all the time
Usually that's when they are out and about hunting. You can try it then.
Also, get a mouse that's got it's eyes open and is active. The activity will entice the snake.
I got a live mouse and feed it to him, I went ahead and did it a bit early because his behaviour is a bit more calm/active versus his defensive/breathing heavy deal.
He ate the mouse and it looked like he thought it was delicious, I might try feeding him live for a couple weeks then try again to switch to f/t?
Aaron_S
08-10-14, 09:45 AM
I got a live mouse and feed it to him, I went ahead and did it a bit early because his behaviour is a bit more calm/active versus his defensive/breathing heavy deal.
He ate the mouse and it looked like he thought it was delicious, I might try feeding him live for a couple weeks then try again to switch to f/t?
See how easy that was?
I would do a couple feedings and begin to switch. If you want to switch to rats, start asking for gross and dirty rat shavings to be placed in the box with the live mouse while you bring it home.
See how easy that was?
I would do a couple feedings and begin to switch. If you want to switch to rats, start asking for gross and dirty rat shavings to be placed in the box with the live mouse while you bring it home.
Okay, how soon should I switch him to rats?
Aaron_S
08-11-14, 09:00 AM
Okay, how soon should I switch him to rats?
I begin the process from the very first feeding if possible. Here's my outline to my hatchlings. It's a bit more intensive than others but I find starting on mice they all eat without issue.
First feeding: Live hopper mouse scented with rat shavings
Second feeding: Live hopper mouse scented with rat shavings
Third feeding: Live rat pup
Fourth feeding: Live rat pup
Fifth feeding: F/T rat pup
At third feeding, if they don't take the rat pup I will go with the mouse again for another feeding then try again on the next with the rat.
I judge based on each snake's appetite when to switch to f/t. Some of them switch at third or fourth feeding.
I begin the process from the very first feeding if possible. Here's my outline to my hatchlings. It's a bit more intensive than others but I find starting on mice they all eat without issue.
First feeding: Live hopper mouse scented with rat shavings
Second feeding: Live hopper mouse scented with rat shavings
Third feeding: Live rat pup
Fourth feeding: Live rat pup
Fifth feeding: F/T rat pup
At third feeding, if they don't take the rat pup I will go with the mouse again for another feeding then try again on the next with the rat.
I judge based on each snake's appetite when to switch to f/t. Some of them switch at third or fourth feeding.
Thanks for this, I'll be getting a mouse with rat shavings ASAP.
So I talked to a snake breeder that I was referred to by a relative...
He told me some conflicting things, just wanted to see what you guys think.
He said:
* To switch to rats feed him a rat that is scented with mice (not the other way)
* Increase the humidity to 70-80% versus my current 50-60%
* Don't try to switch to F/T until ~4 months from now
* You have to have him in a plastic shoebox -- Nothing else works.
* I am using a IR bulb for the cool side (making it 80f) and he said that's bad never use bulbs.
* He said he should eat every 5 days until he is an adult, not every week.
Just wanted to see your opinions.
Aaron_S
08-17-14, 09:11 AM
So I talked to a snake breeder that I was referred to by a relative...
He told me some conflicting things, just wanted to see what you guys think.
He said:
* To switch to rats feed him a rat that is scented with mice (not the other way)
* Increase the humidity to 70-80% versus my current 50-60%
* Don't try to switch to F/T until ~4 months from now
* You have to have him in a plastic shoebox -- Nothing else works.
* I am using a IR bulb for the cool side (making it 80f) and he said that's bad never use bulbs.
* He said he should eat every 5 days until he is an adult, not every week.
Just wanted to see your opinions.
You can switch to rats that way too. I've used that step if I think the snake might be difficult. Use what you feel is comfortable for you.
Humidity is fine at 60%. Increase it at shedding time.
I use tubs. Work amazingly well. I have seen other types of enclosures work. Some take more effort than a tub though and can make things difficult but doesn't mean they don't work. Other enclosures just might not be ideal.
Bulbs suck out humidity. They aren't ideal. Undertank heaters can work great.
You don't need to feed every 5 days. Once a week is completely fine.
Did this person explain why to do it that way?
You can switch to rats that way too. I'vemused that step if I think the snake might be difficult. Use what you feel is comfortable for you.
Humidity is fine at 60%. Increase it at shedding time.
I use tubs. Work amazingly well. I have seen other types of enclosures work. Some take more effort than a tub though and can make things difficult but doesn't mean they don't work. Other enclosures just might not be ideal.
Bulbs suck out humidity. They aren't ideal. Undertank heaters can work great.
You don't need to feed every 5 days. Once a week is completely fine.
Did this person explain why to do it that way?
No he wasn't very detailed, everything he said made sense.. but how am I going to heat up the cool side from 70f to 80f without a bulb?
Aaron_S
08-18-14, 10:04 AM
No he wasn't very detailed, everything he said made sense.. but how am I going to heat up the cool side from 70f to 80f without a bulb?
If you're currently using a bulb and everything has been working fine then stay with it.
Bulbs just aren't ideal. Doesn't mean they don't work. You will have to watch humidity levels is all.
If you have specific questions go to my facebook and send me a message or PM me. I don't check here often enough.
If you're currently using a bulb and everything has been working fine then stay with it.
Bulbs just aren't ideal. Doesn't mean they don't work. You will have to watch humidity levels is all.
If you have specific questions go to my facebook and send me a message or PM me. I don't check here often enough.
Okay that's great! If I have any specific questions I'll contact you there.
I just had a good update tho, he ate a rat today! I'll keep him on live rats for a bit until I think he is ready to switch to f/t rats.
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