Help! Dissimiliar sized ackies.

[Fitz19d]

I was under the impression a couple of ackies I ordered from 2 different places would be closer to the same sized.

One is loosely ID'd as a female/one male, but both sellers werent 100% sure so could be double of either.

Either way, at this size diff., should I put them in seperate tanks or if they arrived same day may acclimate fine? I know no definate answer of them working as ackies I thought were hit or miss. But any for sure answer to not do it?

Also I know dont mix species, but I'll still throw it out there, would the one the same size as my very young tegu maybe work toghether for a little while?

I can red neck 3 tanks for each, but would be more convenient for now if I could do 2 for now.

[Fitz19d]

Doesnt let me link to photobucket.

[Wildvaranus]

They are gorgeous, I wouldnt house one with a tegu just because you dont want to introduce monitor bacteria into your tegu's enclosure and visa versa they have different immune systems. Do not house the two monitors together because you got them from seperate breeders so personally I would want to monitor them for a while in quarantine.

[Pirarucu]

Definitely don't house one with the Tegu. That would be a much worse option than just keeping the ackies together.
I've seen ackies that size kept together, but size isn't the biggest issue, it's just how they react to each other. If they've been raised on their own then putting them together could cause big problems. If they were kept in groups with other ackies, they stand a much better chance of getting along well.

[Fitz19d]

Had to put them toghether for now in one cage after one breeder figured it was worth a shot. Warming up have started moving around and Im not sure what I'm seeing.

At first both kinda running around pushing their hips low and just writhing tails around like a sidewinder in sand. The big one was crawling over the small one quite a bit, but never bit. Little one started crawling over bigger and even following it when the big one left the spot briefly, and big one at first followed little. Now the little one keeps coming back and sitting on top of the big one and ocassionally running the tank then back on top of big one who is largely just basking... No more tail wagging really.

Love at first sight? Doesnt seem like aggression the way I know it.

[Fitz19d]

Here's a really bad video of it sometime later. Last half has more of the described behavior. Little will stand up like high as he can on all 4's. They'll randomly follow and deliberately crawl on each other. No hissing or biting. The little one seems to puff/engorge his throat a little.

Big one is eating dubia/mealworms already. He's too busy basking for 2mins then running up the walls of the tank. Both got in the hide for a little bit and did some digging around.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRtx7R15RdY&feature=youtu.be

[Pirarucu]

Pushing their hips low and wiggling their tails was their way of scent marking their new habitat. Mounting and following the other is a dominance behavior, and both males and females do it. It's very common to see, but they should be observed closely. They will mount each other and sometimes even mock copulation as part of the dominance ritual, but biting should not occur. If it does, be ready to break it up and possibly separate them.
Can you give us a rundown of their setup? Air temperatures, basking temperatures, humidity, depth of substrate, size of the cage, etc.?

[Fitz19d]

Because of some problems earlier in the week I didnt have my ideal 40g breeder setup so I had to slap this toghether.

Needs some fine tuning, basking is only 110 or so, air near/around it 85 ish, cool side 72. Humidity somewhere 40-50%, was a bit unsure i've seen conflicting on humid vs dry with a humid hide. Substrate is 3 to 5 inches deep of pure cypress mixed with some eco earth. They are in a 29g for now, but by end of day hoping to perhaps have the 40g setup. Alternatively may keep small in the 29g or for now since so small a 10-15 gal perhaps and give the large one the 40g or 29 to itself.

[smy_749]

Pirarucu covered pretty much everything. I would still keep them seperate even if they 'got along' until the smaller one caught up in size. Also, the setup your describing is not adequate. 29, 40, 55, and 75 gallon terrariums are too small for a single ackie, nevermind a pair. 29 Gallon aquarium is not even large enough to be nesting box for a female, never mind a full enclosure. You need to get that situated fairly quickly, and if you weren't able to get it setup you probably should have delayed shipping on both. I would go to a tractor supply co. or something similar and pick up a large 4x2x2 or 5x2x2 trough, through a giant piece of plexi or a glass window over the entire top with a 65 watt halogen flood. 12-18 inches of sandy soil , not cypress. You want high humidity but dry surface.

[Pirarucu]

Pirarucu covered pretty much everything. I would still keep them seperate even if they 'got along' until the smaller one caught up in size. Also, the setup your describing is not adequate. 29, 40, 55, and 75 gallon terrariums are too small for a single ackie, nevermind a pair. 29 Gallon aquarium is not even large enough to be nesting box for a female, never mind a full enclosure. You need to get that situated fairly quickly, and if you weren't able to get it setup you probably should have delayed shipping on both. I would go to a tractor supply co. or something similar and pick up a large 4x2x2 or 5x2x2 trough, through a giant piece of plexi or a glass window over the entire top with a 65 watt halogen flood. 12-18 inches of sandy soil , not cypress. You want high humidity but dry surface.This. Get them a trough, some loamy soil, and a proper basking area. Keeping them in such a small cage will encourage fighting as well.

Here is an example of what we're talking about:
https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xaf1/t1.0-9/537579_277203312375559_469672958_n.jpg
https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfa1/t1.0-9/538807_277203332375557_239114419_n.jpg

[Fitz19d]

To clarify, none of them were meant as a permanent option. I'm about to move 2 towns over where I will have a long term setup made up. The 2nd ackie was a bit of a dumb impulse buy, but I also thought they were same sized. Thought they were harder to find at the time.

Guess I've seen some contradictory information, some of which indicated a 75g would be sufficient at least for one when it's close to 4x2x2. Any reason the rubbermaid troughs wouldn't work just as well as the metal? Would be a little more sightly indoors and lighter.

Are we talking hitting a garden supply for this soil, or couldn't I make something appropriate using excavator and something else (the eco earth). Again some of what I'd been reading was vague or I'd seen others with a kinda dry cypress substrate and like moss/other water retaining stuff in the hide.

[Fitz19d]

Also said just a halogen flood, what about the UVB? Or is that the school of supplement enough on food and forego it?

[Pirarucu]

Cypress and moss are not what you're after for the substrate, they need to be able to burrow. You probably could make something suitable using excavator and eco earth. (Or just get plain red "repti-sand", which is very similar to what they would be on in the wild. However, to buy enough of that stuff to fill an ackie cage to over a foot deep... You'll be spending a ridiculous amount of money on just the substrate. Go to a soil yard and get some sandy loam, (finely decomposed granite works well) it will work just as well if not better and will be a fraction of the cost.

There is still a debate going on as to whether UV lighting is necessary for monitors, I for one think it should be given but they have been successfully kept without it.

[smy_749]

Won't get into the debate about UV, there is plenty of info for either side of that argument available on the internet. My personal opinion: Beneficial, yes. Necessary, no. 95% of the ackies that have been produced were from adults not offered any UVB and they lived long lives. Whether its beneficial or not is not nearly as important as getting the rest of the husbandry down, most important of which are high basking 140+ and deep sandy loam or whatever holds a burrow and moisture really. My troughs are identical to the ones pirarucu posted 100%. I can lift my 4x2x2 trough over my head, they are aluminum and extremely light. Lighter than the rubbermaid ones I believe. They also don't taper down as you get deeper, which gives more useable space. I use a halogen flood 65 watts in a 4x2x2 and let it got hot as hell (I have gillens not Ackies, same difference though) and a 24" fluorescent tube just to light the enclosure up a bit better. You will spend more on excavator sand / repti-sand (I love the reptisand) than you did on the ackies if you try to fill an enclosure with it lol

[Fitz19d]

Well thanks guys.

So far they seem to do pretty well. Stopped the earlier behavior. Both eating well and largely ignoring each other. Were sleeping with each other for the afternoon/evening. Though late evening I noticed the small one made a burrow of sorts under the tile.

I did have better basking rocks, just wouldnt fit in the 29g I had thrown them in until I get the rest setup. They are in the 75 now and I will after 2 weeks in my move put them in something bigger.

Alright if they arnt heavy then maybe I'll consider those, probably come down to price somewhat. The one thing I'd semi note is those to me look more like for breeding. Idea was for more of a display/pet type situation. So I guess what I'll need to do is build them a seperate large box with front glass I'll stack on the 8x4x4 for tegu or put alongside it. Or if I do the bins, I'll need to figure out how to skirt or panel the outside and try and class it up a bit.

[smy_749]

Well thanks guys.

So far they seem to do pretty well. Stopped the earlier behavior. Both eating well and largely ignoring each other. Were sleeping with each other for the afternoon/evening. Though late evening I noticed the small one made a burrow of sorts under the tile.

I did have better basking rocks, just wouldnt fit in the 29g I had thrown them in until I get the rest setup. They are in the 75 now and I will after 2 weeks in my move put them in something bigger.

Alright if they arnt heavy then maybe I'll consider those, probably come down to price somewhat. The one thing I'd semi note is those to me look more like for breeding. Idea was for more of a display/pet type situation. So I guess what I'll need to do is build them a seperate large box with front glass I'll stack on the 8x4x4 for tegu or put alongside it. Or if I do the bins, I'll need to figure out how to skirt or panel the outside and try and class it up a bit.

If you have a female ackie, you don't have any choice. You need deep nesting substrate, or your animal will die. Maybe not after her first clutch, but she will not live a long lifespan at all. Even without a male, she will lay. So its not about breeding. You can always build an enclosure with a cattle trough (not a bin) as a base for your substrate. The trough is the most popular setup because it works, simple as that. It doesn't rot, bow, leak, lose heat, etc. Also, you will not be able to put anything underneath a 4x2x2 filled with atleast 15-20 inches of damp substrate. It will weigh between 1-2000 pounds depending on the mixture you choose.

[Pirarucu]

As Sami said, the deep substrate is not optional. Get the trough for now, and later on you can work on sprucing it up. Many people use the trough to hold the substrate, and build a box on top of it. You can work on that in the future, but for now they need a proper setup ASAP, and a trough can give them that.