which kind?

[snakemann87]

hey everyone, I have three snakes and am interested in gettting a chameleon and I have some ?'s.
1)Which type is the best, and male or female?
2)What size cage?
3)How much will it cost at a US herp show?

P.S.- any other info would be GREAT!!!!!!!!

[katev17]

Probably a male veiled or panther (panther costs more)would be best, but theres no reason to limit yourself if you are dedicated... females are more prone to calcium deficiency because of the eggs they lay (Takes a LOT out of them), but if you know how to take care of them, then best of luck! :D You'll want a tall screened cage, and it depends on what species you get, but a veiled or panther can be housed up to 30 x 30 x 48 but you can get away with 18 x 18 x 36 [ bigger/taller = better ]... People claim they're hard to care for but you just need to provide them with sufficient calcium and uvb/uva lights. If you do, you shouldn't have a problem!! (well aside from the feeding & providing humidity lol)

Good luck :D
Kate

Ps I live in Canada so I cant answer Q#3

[snakemann87]

ok thanks. forgot to add a ?, what do you feed them when babies and adults, and how if its flies.

[katev17]

Variety is the key! Crickets mostly, but things like mealworms and such are good too. As babies you dust them with calcium about every 2nd feeding, but as adults 1-2 times a week is good!!

Good luck! :D
Kate

[BWSmith]

People claim they're hard to care for but you just need to provide them with sufficient calcium and uvb/uva lights

Compared to many other species of lizard, they are difficult. They are much less forgiving of slightly insufficient husbandry. Stress is also a major factor with Chams. They can be kept with what I consider a "moderate" amount of time and experience. But I would not recommend a cham as a first lizard (I am assuming it is a first or close to it). There are countless other choices for lizards out there. I think Chams are best suited for those who have a few years of experience with lizards.

[snakemann87]

ok, i have kept two green iguanas. If I'm not to get a chameleon, how about leopards? I know what to do but anyone keep them and give some personal advice? More advice on chams would be great also

[Zoe]

Hi,

My first cham was a female panther (I wanted a male) and she is just awesome! She has a 3 x 2 x 2 cage with branches, an umbrella tree and a pathos vine. She has U.V. light, and I feed her crickets 3 times a week. She eats 5-10 a feeding, and twice a week I dust with vitamins and once with calcium. She she was a baby she ate the same amount only in baby crickets. She was 120$ canadian, and they probably go for 70-100$ U.S.

You'll be very happy with a panther chameleon, and males have amazing colours! (BLUE!!!)

:] Goodluck!
Zoe

[snakemann87]

awesome, thanks for the info zoe, about how big are they?

[BWSmith]

Of course you will do what you like, but my recommendation would be to start with something a little easier like Leos are Beardies. Lizards are much higher maintenance than snakes. Takes some getting used to.

[snakemann87]

i will just stick with a leopard gecko then, thanks for the help

Originally posted by BWSmith
Of course you will do what you like, .

Im not sure that was needed though BW?/??????

[Zoe]

snakeman, I don't think you need to start with a leo. If you have experience with herps in general and read lots of care sheets, and ask any questions you have here on the forums I am confident you will do well!

My girl is about 12-14cms from head to vent, and my male is almost double that. They don't get that big.

Zoe

[snakemann87]

ok cool. I am really into my animals and know i will properly care for one if i get one, does your male show any agression?

[Zoe]

I just got my male, and he still isn't a huge fan of being handled but I know he will calm down soon, once he starts to recognize my face. My female used to be a terror (she'd puff up and turn brown if I'd get near) but recently she has gotten quite friendly, she even sometimes comes to the door when I walk by if she wants to come out.

They aren't by nature very aggressive animals.

Zoe

[BWSmith]

No offense was intended. people do what they want. that is why it is advice, not an order. ;)

[Andy]

Originally posted by ZoeStevens


They aren't by nature very aggressive animals.



Are you serious? Chameleons are very aggressive by nature and dont take to handling well. Handling stresses them out and It is only smart to do it once a week at the most. The only time I handle mine are when I am cleaning cages or moving my male to my females cage. Everytime you pick a chameleon up it probably will hiss and try to bite you, if they dont something is wrong with them.

Veileds are a good chameleon to start with. They are hardy and get big. For a cage get yourself a reptarium, you can get them at lllreptile for cheap. Provide uva/uvb light a hot spot and calcium and vitamin supplementation and your good to go. Its very rare for a chameleon to drink out of standing water(water bowl) so either a drip system, a fogger, or a spray botle is needed. I use a spray botle and spray down all the leaves and walls of the cage a couple times a day.

From a breeder you can get a well started Veiled for $30-$40. You will probably want to get something that is pretty well started because they tend to be fragile when they are very young. Hatchlings eat flightless fruitflies or pinhead crickets. Then you just move the food says up according to the size of there head. Most places suggest not feeding anything larger than 1/2 the legnth or there head, I usually fed stuff 2/3 the size of there head or larger with little problem. When feeding larger I always watched them eat to be careful of choking. (You will enjoy watching them eat so much that you wont not want to watch them eat anyways) If you get a male be ready for a big animal. He will be full grown in less than a year (probably somewhere are around 18 inches long).

Variety is good when feeding them. If you can catch flies DO IT, they love them. Crickets, Roaches, mealworms, Pinky mice are all different things I feed mine. When they get older provide them with some greens once a week. The best way is to clothes pin some spinach or mustard leaves to there vines, or the side of the cage.


If you get a chameleon good luck, and I know you will have a good time. I still watch every cricket that gets thrown in by mine, they are so fun to watch eat.

[katev17]

Also, if you put a live plant in their cage they are likely to eat the leaves off of it, although you have to be careful of what type of plant you put in. (Pothos, fiscus and hibiscus are good as long as you make sure that the sap doesn't 'leak'... it can be toxic and harmful to your cham.)

Just make sure you don't let others discourage you if you're serious about getting a cham! You obviously have experience, and I'm not saying that it's going to be a walk in the park, but I know you'll be able to take care of one. It just takes determination! :D Good luck!!!

Kate

PS - Good info Andy, I was too lazy to go into that much detail before lol

[Zoe]

Everytime you pick a chameleon up it probably will hiss and try to bite you, if they dont something is wrong with them.

I don't know what types of chameleons your working with (Veileds are reputed to be less sociable than panthers), but my female enjoys being handled. My male doesn't, as I just got him from a breeder who never handled her chameleon. But he doesn't hiss or bite, he just walks away from my hand.

http://www.indiepool.com/privateftp/archermultimedia/zoestevens/images/cham/panther03.jpg

http://www.indiepool.com/privateftp/archermultimedia/zoestevens/images/cham/veiledf01.jpg

You can see how easily those chams are handled.

I kept an adult male veiled, and he was fine to handle. As were the trio of baby veileds I kept. In fact, I can't think of too many very aggressive chameleons I've met. Perhaps a couple female veileds that puffed up when I got near but that's about it.

Perhaps your chameleons are hard to handle because you rarely do?

In the wild it's a whole different story, if you've ever watched steve irwin going after wild panther chams in madagascar you know what I mean! Those buggers bite and hiss like mad.


Also, about eating plants, I thought it was only veileds that did? I could be wrong, but I've been told that panthers don't eat plants, and mine never have. But I would stick with non toxic plants, you never know what those crazy buggers will do :]

[snakemann87]

ok, i hope that they arent, what do you think about veiled, there are CB veileds for sale here for 25, it is a home business i think thats why they're cheap.

Originally posted by BWSmith
No offense was intended.

ok BW:)

[Zoe]

Veileds are very nice too! Try and buy a male if you can, they are bigger, tend to be more sociable, and don't have the egg-related problems the females do. They can be sexed from hatching, by looking spurs on their hind feet.

Babies do better in a smaller enclosure... for instance a baby in a 30 gal will paw at the side and be stressed, and it will be much happier in a 10-15 gal. Up the size of the enclosure until it reaches sub-adulthood (it won't take long, they growe like weeds!) and then you'll need a well ventilated, wood/screen cage.

Zoe

[snakemann87]

ok cool, thanks for the info everyone

[Andy]

"As a rule, chameleons are meant to be looked at, not handled. Some individuals will tolerate limited handling, though. Once or twice a week is plenty of action for most chameleons. Remember, handling is stressful for a chameleon, even if they seem to "like" it. Stress can cause many problems with chameleons and may even kill them. Most chameleons would prefer to stay in their cage among the branches and plants. If you are more interested in a pet you can handle more frequently, a bearded dragon, crested gecko, or leopard gecko may be more appropriate."

www.crestedgecko.com

Taken from Garrick Demeyers caresheet on veiled chameleons. I know Garrick and have talked to him alot about this kind of stuff. Garrick breeds tons of these little buggers he generally has between 200-300 young veileds available and any given time.
Any caresheet you find will have something similiar to that statement.

[Zoe]

I'm not saying all chameleons should be handled 15 times a day, but what else would you advise me to do with a chameleon that walks over to the door of the cage, and onto my hand when I go near? Push her off? If she were stressed by handling, she'd tell me by turning to her "irritated colours" and puffing up.

Chameleons learn to recognize your face, and generally trust those they see often.

I took a quick look online, and found, among others, the following:
"These are fairly hardy, extremely friendly chameleons"
"Panther chameleons are usually very tame, and enjoy gentle handling"

Like I said, not all chams should be handled all the time, but some do enjoy it. Also, you seem to be more into veileds, which are usually far less handlable than panthers.

[snakemann87]

ok thanks, i don't mind limited handling to a chameleon, they're interesting little guys and will probably get one eventually. hopefullly one of the upcoming shows

[BWSmith]

make sure you don't let others discourage you if you're serious about getting a cham!

It is not discouragement. It is experience. Some people get a cham and everything that can go right does, so they assume chams are easy. They are not. When it comes to proper husbandry and stress, they are very unforgiving. Noone is trying to discourage. I for one am trying to give experiences from probably hundreds of chams I have cared for. And babies are a PAIN!!!!!! Given the choice, I would rather shove a pinky down a newborn Pygmy Rattler than have to deal with 60 newborn chams. They are fascinating lizards and I too never got tired of watching them eat. I even had my male pardalis taking crickets out of my fingers. But in my opinion, chams require more dedication than virtually any other type of popular lizard. So when thinking about gettingone, you have to ask yourself if yo have the dedication to keep them successfully. Ask yourself, answer yourself, noone else needs to know.

[BWSmith]

Sorry, Just noticed this:
"Panther chameleons are usually very tame, and enjoy gentle handling"
LOL!!!!!!!!! Try a MALE!!! 90% of the the males I have come accross are extremely aggressive and can deliver more of a bite than you would think!

"These are fairly hardy, extremely friendly chameleons"
ok, I have no idea what species you are talking about, but it would be interesting to know.
Stress probably accounts for 75% of chameleon deaths. I am assuming that "friendly" and "hardy" are terms compared to other Cham species, not in lizards as a whole.

I will refrain from responding to other quotes (not neccessarily fromt he same author). But some made me cringe.