Bioactive Setup for Indigos?

[eminart]

Has anybody tried this or have you heard of anyone doing it? It seems like it might be a good way to cut down on some of the mess for which indigos are so famous.

I'm saving my pennies for my first drymarchon so I have no experience yet. I also don't know much about true Bioactive vivs. Just doing some thinking for the future.

[jpsteele80]

I haven't done it but I know people here on here have and I'm sure someone will be on soon that can give you that info :D

[poison123]

How big is the enclosure? I have zero experience with indigos but I have heard of how messy they are and I would think they would need quite a bit of soil. Along with more then just you common bacteria/springtail setup.

[smy_749]

I dont think it will work with Indigos unfortunately. Well, I shouldn't say it won't work, but it will not work to your full expectations I would assume. These are big snakes, which means they drop big bombs, and they do it very very frequently. Nature has a hard time keeping up with them haha.

[eminart]

The enclosure will be at least 6'x2'. I don't have the snake yet, and it will spend at least a year in smaller enclosures.

So, I guess the larger the viv, the better it would work? I have ordered the book, "the art of keeping snakes" but it hasn't arrived yet. I've always liked making natural-looking setups, but I've never done a full Bioactive setup, except one I did for frogs. And, I'd never heard the phrase "bioactive vivarium" when I did that one.

I've just never been a big fan of paper substrate or shavings. But, due to the indigos' large size and the fact that they tend to live on sandy soil, I wasn't sure how well a bio substrate would work. I might have to compromise and just find something that looks fairly natural.

I was just hoping someone might have some experience in keeping these large, messy snakes in this way. I have at least a year to research and think about it.

[Roman]

I don’t keep Drymarchon but I keep Spilotes pullatus (Tiger Ratsnakes), so I think it might be similar. First of all, I would recommend to go for a larger enclosure, at least add another ft of depth. This will allow your snake to keep it’s distance during your maintenance work without stressing it. I would go for something like 7 x 3 x 4 (5) ft. The book you ordered is very good, one of the best I ever read.

I think one key for a workable bioactive enclosure are plants, which will use the decomposition products as fertilizer. Currently I have something like a “semi-bioactive” setup, I don’t have any insects or worms for the decomposition of large amounts of waste, so I remove the feces but I don’t really bother with the urates, I just burrow them. I could leave the feces as well, they would be dissolved within a relative short time, but the enclosure is part of my living room, so I remove them to get rid of the smell.

I know of somebody here in Germany who has a huge rainforest enclosure for basilisk lizards (Basilicus sp.). He uses a land living crab for eating most of the waste the lizards produce, the rest is removed by some insects.

So I would use a large enclosure, get some bioactive soil, prime it with some earthworms, springtails etc. and use several plants. In the beginning remove the feces and then just watch how it evolves. If there are enough plants there will be some feces you won’t find “in time” so you will see how well they got dissolved when you finally find them. Then you may decide if you still need to remove them or if they are dissolved fast enough that the smell is no issue any longer.

For additional information about my Spilotes enclosure --> http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/general-colubrid-forum/95024-spilotes-pullatus.html

And something about plants in enclosures --> http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/natural-vivaria-plant-forum/103570-plants-terrariums.html

Roman

[eminart]

Thanks for the info, Roman. Your enclosures look great. I'll go bigger than 6'x2' if I can. I don't know that I'll go as tall as yours because indigos don't climb like your rat snakes. But thanks for the reply. It gives me some ideas and some hope that it can be done.

[Pirarucu]

Snakes digest their food so well and take large enough dumps that the average cage used in captivity can't take care of the amount of feces they produce. With snakes, a bioactive viv will still need to be spot cleaned, and the bioactivity will just take care of the small pieces you miss.

[eminart]

a bioactive viv will still need to be spot cleaned, and the bioactivity will just take care of the small pieces you miss.

I'm actually fine with that, and kind of thought it would be the case.

But, what about the type of soil? Will the sandy type soil that indigos live in support enough bio activity to help with the clean up at all? I suppose I could just wait until the book arrives and see if answers these questions before I bombard the forum....

[Roman]

I don't know that I'll go as tall as yours because indigos don't climb like your rat snakes.

Are you sure about this? In my experience large colubrids will use any space they will get. The Miami zoo has a beautiful enclosure for yellowtail cribos (Drymarchon corais). They use the whole space, up to the highest branches down to the ground and back again. So I think that the Eastern Indigo might enjoy some branches and a little more height as well.

The bigger the enclosure the easier it might be to go really bioactive. When you start you will have to spot clean the enclosure, but with time the amount of necessary maintenance will reduce itself, probably to nil (look for Waynes/Infernalis threads about his monitor enclosure).

Roman

[eminart]

Are you sure about this? In my experience large colubrids will use any space they will get.

Roman


I know they WILL climb, but I don't think they do it often like a rat snake. But I'm certainly not an expert.

[IW17]

I've researched them and everything I found says height isn't necessary. But I have no actual experience so take that with a grain of salt.