A reminder of what can happen

[MCB]

Stumbled upon this in another forum. Always a nice reminder.

*****Warning Graphic Injury Pictures*****

****high def extreme bite damage pics inside no kids no snacking while viewing**** (http://burmjunkies.com/showthread.php?7467-****high-def-extreme-bite-damage-pics-inside-no-kids-no-snacking-while-viewing****)

[dave himself]

Now that's gonna sting. All joking aside it just shows the damage these large snakes a capable of causing

[Tsubaki]

Autchy, that does not look very pleasant!

[jpsteele80]

That is one of the nastiest bites I have seen from a snake, he's very lucky it wasn't worse

[mr_weatherby]

Ouch! This does not help my paranoia of owning a 10+ foot snake, lol, at all. Hence why I will never get one. I've gotten bit by snakes, but nothing that even required a hospital visit.

[jpsteele80]

Ouch! This does not help my paranoia of owning a 10+ foot snake, lol, at all. Hence why I will never get one. I've gotten bit by snakes, but nothing that even required a hospital visit.

Yeah but you can't let the "what if's" keep you from getting what you truly want (if large snake is what you want)

[millertime89]

Male retics can be the most dangerous non-venomous snake in the world when in breeding mode. You talk to any retic breeder who has been through a few seasons and they will all tell you even though the females get bigger, it's the males in breeding season you need to watch out for. This is exactly why you need to have backup when handling a big snake. This is also why males are usually slow grown and a lot of people try to keep them on the smaller side so in the event you do get a breeding season bite, it's nowhere near this bad.

[EL Ziggy]

That is one nasty snake bite. I'll stick with my colubrids, thank you. I love retics and burms too (from afar) :).

[shaunyboy]

Now that's gonna sting. All joking aside it just shows the damage these large snakes a capable of causing

i was pretty much shot down in flames for telling a new keeper who was thinking of getting a burm.....

you really need to have at least one other person present when handling,giving meds,etc

most folk reckoned that one new slightly arrogant young keeper would be just fine and in no real danger

in the end i gave up trying to convince them,that a Burm is really powerful creature and should never be under estimated

re the link
that's one nasty looking wound,imagine if that had been the guys face instead of his for arm :shocked:


thanks for sharing mate


cheers shaun

[JWFugle]

ugh... yea put that on the list of "things to radically avoid" that being said do males go into that breed mode even if they are never breed or around female retics?

[sharthun]

Wow, that reinforces the danger and power of large snakes!

[MDT]

impressive...i don't want to get tagged by my carpets, let alone the retics...heck, i just don't want to get bit period...

[retic1987]

Wow I have taken some bites and seen some but that is the worst.you never know when its going to be you and that's way I stress using hook training and resting the hooking the head you just never know.hope he heals up good and glad it don't go where it could have.

[shaunyboy]

impressive...i don't want to get tagged by my carpets, let alone the retics...heck, i just don't want to get bit period...

ive found adult Carpets hit that hard they leave a lot of bruising,but it's over that fast you don't really feel it when it actually being done

:D just gotta love Carpet and all things bitey :D


cheers shaun

[Aaron_S]

Male retics can be the most dangerous non-venomous snake in the world when in breeding mode. You talk to any retic breeder who has been through a few seasons and they will all tell you even though the females get bigger, it's the males in breeding season you need to watch out for. This is exactly why you need to have backup when handling a big snake. This is also why males are usually slow grown and a lot of people try to keep them on the smaller side so in the event you do get a breeding season bite, it's nowhere near this bad.

That's just sad to read.

Selfishness ahead of respect for the animal we all "love".

[jpsteele80]

That's just sad to read.

Selfishness ahead of respect for the animal we all "love".

Agreed, when I get my male I plan to grow him just the same as my female

[IW17]

That's just sad to read.

Selfishness ahead of respect for the animal we all "love".

I would agree with you, however I think it's the other side of the story that's sad. I'd say more often than not, Male snakes that breeders" slow grow" are fed in a more healthy manner. The females seem to be way over fed to get them up to Breeding size as quickly as possible. Not the case with all breeders, but definitely a trend that's not uncommon.

[dastefster]

Wow! awesome post. I wonder if he had and nerve damage.

[moshirimon]

Male retics can be the most dangerous non-venomous snake in the world when in breeding mode.

Love this. Although I am not a breeder, I am a keeper and I have experienced many retics.I find it surprising that 95% of caresheets, and books out there don't state this.

People need to know the difference between male and female. Aside from size, and constriction male retics in my opinion are definitely the most dangerous non-venomous snake. Males develop large serrated teeth once they reach sexual maturity, and not only that, but the whole way they bite is different. It is NOT a feeding bite, it is designed to slice and dice. You can get bit one day and have minor injuries, and another day SEVERE injuries depending on the snakes reason for biting.

Retics in the wild are covered in scars and either healed/open wounds, which are caused by males during breeding season literally FIGHTING. How often do you hear of snakes doing this? Let alone being smart enough to do this. From what I know they are the only large snake equipped with this weaponry. They do not want to eat, they do this compete.

That being said, burms, boas, rocks, scrubs and other large snakes do not have these "combat teeth". Not to say some of them, especially scrubs, have long teeth that can also cause damage. But none of them will give you a slice like a big male retic will.

**One question for millertime.. This is for my own curiosity, I heard if a male is never exposed to the scent of other retics that this aggressive behavior will usually stay withheld, along with noserubbing. Is this true???

[moshirimon]

That's just sad to read.

Selfishness ahead of respect for the animal we all "love".

90% of retics are overweight in captivity. "Keeping it small" being used the way it is by breeders, would actually in my opinion be the proper way of doing it as opposed to feeding a baby every 5 days. As long as the snake isn't underweight there is absolutely nothing wrong with keeping your snake small. And really it doesn't always keep them small, it just slows down the process.

All in all I think for any retic bigger than 5 foot, once a week feeding is ridiculous. (unless your bulking up a female for breeding)

[Aaron_S]

90% of retics are overweight in captivity. "Keeping it small" being used the way it is by breeders, would actually in my opinion be the proper way of doing it as opposed to feeding a baby every 5 days. As long as the snake isn't underweight there is absolutely nothing wrong with keeping your snake small. And really it doesn't always keep them small, it just slows down the process.

All in all I think for any retic bigger than 5 foot, once a week feeding is ridiculous. (unless your bulking up a female for breeding)

I get your thought process and where you're coming from.

I disagree in slowing down a process of a snake that regularily hits well over 10 feet for both male and females. Regardless of breeding. In the context it was initially said was that the animals are kept smaller purely to keep them a more managable size for the breeder. Nothing to do with health except for their own. Selfish as I said.

The last comment needs more context.

Is it bad to feed a snake the largest meal it can possibly take every week? Most likely yes.
Is it bad to feed by weight and keeping the meals a healthy size so it keeps a very healthy growth rate/healthy size on the snake? No.

Example, I feed my snakes, multiple species now, the same way. I use a 10 - 15% of body weight in their prey item on a regular feeding schedule. This has shown me over years to give both males and females a healthy growth rate. For adults I feed the same way and it's maintained males and breeding females with ample weight gain to give me healthy clutches/babies.

[moshirimon]

I get your thought process and where you're coming from.

I disagree in slowing down a process of a snake that regularily hits well over 10 feet for both male and females. Regardless of breeding. In the context it was initially said was that the animals are kept smaller purely to keep them a more managable size for the breeder. Nothing to do with health except for their own. Selfish as I said.

The last comment needs more context.

Is it bad to feed a snake the largest meal it can possibly take every week? Most likely yes.
Is it bad to feed by weight and keeping the meals a healthy size so it keeps a very healthy growth rate/healthy size on the snake? No.

Example, I feed my snakes, multiple species now, the same way. I use a 10 - 15% of body weight in their prey item on a regular feeding schedule. This has shown me over years to give both males and females a healthy growth rate. For adults I feed the same way and it's maintained males and breeding females with ample weight gain to give me healthy clutches/babies.

Ahh that's true. Smaller , but more often meals would work too. Wasn't on my mind at all lol.

Still I don't see anything wrong with slowing down as long as you don't do it to the point of stunting their growth. Then again I don't know what your idea of slowing down is. I just hate power feeding. And what I meant to say is that in the eyes of many of these "power feeders" which most people are now a days , slowing down isn't really slowing down much more than what it should be. Trying to make your snake the biggest it can be is just as selfish I think. I doubt miller meant to slow down a mainland to under 10 feet though.

Millertime should give us some input on this and clear up his idea of "slowing down".

[millertime89]

ugh... yea put that on the list of "things to radically avoid" that being said do males go into that breed mode even if they are never breed or around female retics?

Each snake is unique. I have one male that is a bear, one that doesn't care, and one that is actively trying to get to them but isn't all that moody. Kinda falls between the other two.

[millertime89]

Did I say how big they're allowed to get? No, I just said they're grown slower and kept smaller. Nature keeps the males smaller from the get go and they still usually hit 10-12ft when grown slower, it just takes 4-6 years instead of 2... There's nothing wrong with doing it that way. You should never jump to conclusions Aaron. Our biggest male is about 12ft and eats an appropriately sized meal (leaves a lump) every 2-3 weeks and just doesn't grow. He's also 9 years (ish) old.

Now go play with your balls.

[Aaron_S]

Did I say how big they're allowed to get? No, I just said they're grown slower and kept smaller. Nature keeps the males smaller from the get go and they still usually hit 10-12ft when grown slower, it just takes 4-6 years instead of 2... There's nothing wrong with doing it that way. You should never jump to conclusions Aaron. Our biggest male is about 12ft and eats an appropriately sized meal (leaves a lump) every 2-3 weeks and just doesn't grow. He's also 9 years (ish) old.

Now go play with your balls.

Kyle, no reason to make condescending comments in regards to what I keep.

I didn't jump to conclusions. A statement was made in regards to why males are "slow grown" as to avoid an agressive breeder male biting or the keeper being unable to hand the animal. Is this not the context of the original conversation and statement?

I simply made a comment in response that it's a selfish way to look at things. This has nothing to do with feeding regimes and it looks like a cover up from my point that some people just shouldn't own these very powerful animals if they don't have the proper means to do so when under appropriate conditions.

[Aaron_S]

Ahh that's true. Smaller , but more often meals would work too. Wasn't on my mind at all lol.

Still I don't see anything wrong with slowing down as long as you don't do it to the point of stunting their growth. Then again I don't know what your idea of slowing down is. I just hate power feeding. And what I meant to say is that in the eyes of many of these "power feeders" which most people are now a days , slowing down isn't really slowing down much more than what it should be. Trying to make your snake the biggest it can be is just as selfish I think. I doubt miller meant to slow down a mainland to under 10 feet though.

Millertime should give us some input on this and clear up his idea of "slowing down".

Power feeding has been around for a long time in many species and I would frown upon it as well. I don't like that practice either.

"slowing down" was originally put into context that a large, breeding mode male retic is very powerful and could be potentially dangerous thus the "slowing down" to be more managable for the keeper.

That's not respecting the animal for what it is and what it can do. It's putting the keeper's needs ahead of the animal and then just adding "it's healthier" as to sound like the animal is ahead of them.

[moshirimon]

That's not respecting the animal for what it is and what it can do. It's putting the keeper's needs ahead of the animal and then just adding "it's healthier" as to sound like the animal is ahead of them.

Um no its not. I feed my retics every 10 days as babies. After 5 or 6 feet o switch to two weeks. In my opinion an adult retic should be fed every 4 weeks. The animal IS healthy. I don't do this because I can't manage a big snake, I can, and love them. But I know i believe it is healthier, and more natural. not saying a snake should live natural "wild" life on captivity, but overfeeding is incorrect and many if not most don't realize theyre doing it.

As miller said, and I don't mean to be rude or condescending, these are not ball pythons and different measures can be taken.

[Aaron_S]

Um no its not. I feed my retics every 10 days as babies. After 5 or 6 feet o switch to two weeks. In my opinion an adult retic should be fed every 4 weeks. The animal IS healthy. I don't do this because I can't manage a big snake, I can, and love them. But I know i believe it is healthier, and more natural. not saying a snake should live natural "wild" life on captivity, but overfeeding is incorrect and many if not most don't realize theyre doing it.

As miller said, and I don't mean to be rude or condescending, these are not ball pythons and different measures can be taken.

I don't get what ball pythons have anything to do within this thread.

Yes, my point stands. The original statement has nothing to do with healthy animals. It was in regards to keeping the keeper safe from being in a situation that not all keepers can handle. (Reality is very few could so kudos to you for being one of them)

If you wish to discuss healthy eating habits you're welcome to begin a new thread or PM me and I'd be more than happy to discuss the math and some science behind it.

[millertime89]

Um no its not. I feed my retics every 10 days as babies. After 5 or 6 feet o switch to two weeks. In my opinion an adult retic should be fed every 4 weeks. The animal IS healthy. I don't do this because I can't manage a big snake, I can, and love them. But I know i believe it is healthier, and more natural. not saying a snake should live natural "wild" life on captivity, but overfeeding is incorrect and many if not most don't realize theyre doing it.

As miller said, and I don't mean to be rude or condescending, these are not ball pythons and different measures can be taken.

Don't waste your time arguing with him over his misguided opinions (And yes Aaron, that's what they are, opinions). He's not worth the bandwidth he takes up in this section. If the animal is growing and is healthy then there is no reason to stuff them full of food to make them grow faster. You just end up with an obese animal that is a bear to deal with for 1/3rd (if not more) of the year.

[Mikoh4792]

I'm sure a middle ground can be reached between slow growing and power feeding. It doesn't have to be one or the other. How about just "proper" feeding where you're not feeding an amount that results in obesity, nor are you skimping on meals to inhibit growth.

[Pareeeee]

Yikes, that looks terrible! I didn't realize it sliced like that.

I love looking at burms and all, but the big snakes just aren't for me. I guess I could say that their sheer size intimidates me. I'm gonna stick with my teeny little snakes. :P

[Aaron_S]

Don't waste your time arguing with him over his misguided opinions (And yes Aaron, that's what they are, opinions). He's not worth the bandwidth he takes up in this section. If the animal is growing and is healthy then there is no reason to stuff them full of food to make them grow faster. You just end up with an obese animal that is a bear to deal with for 1/3rd (if not more) of the year.

I made a comment in regards to a statement you made about "slow growing" animals so as to keep it safer for the keeper.

As it was perceived (remember the saying it's not how it's said it's how it's perceived) that someone would "slow grow" as in to keep the animal smaller because the keeper can't or doesn't want to handle the animal at it's full potential which makes it a selfish reason.

In the original comment it was nothing to do with obesity and health other than the keeper.

The End.

[millertime89]

I'm sure a middle ground can be reached between slow growing and power feeding. It doesn't have to be one or the other. How about just "proper" feeding where you're not feeding an amount that results in obesity, nor are you skimping on meals to inhibit growth.

You would probably be surprised what retic people consider "slow growing". I do it and I feed a decent size meal every 7-10 days for the first year, every two weeks for the next two years and then every 3-4 weeks after. Standard feeding schedule is 5-7 days for 2 yrs and every 2-3 weeks. Power feeding is as much as often as possible.

[Mikoh4792]

You would probably be surprised what retic people consider "slow growing". I do it and I feed a decent size meal every 7-10 days for the first year, every two weeks for the next two years and then every 3-4 weeks after. Standard feeding schedule is 5-7 days for 2 yrs and every 2-3 weeks. Power feeding is as much as often as possible.

As mentioned by Aaron, I guess it's to do with semantics. Usually when I hear the word "slow growing", I take that to be the extreme opposite of power feeding.

In that case why call it slow growing! lol. It's like people are so used to seeing breeders power feed that any normal regimen is thought of as slow growing. It's just proper growing.

[millertime89]

As mentioned by Aaron, I guess it's to do with semantics. Usually when I hear the word "slow growing", I take that to be the extreme opposite of power feeding.

In that case why call it slow growing! lol. It's like people are so used to seeing breeders power feed that any normal regimen is thought of as slow growing. It's just proper growing.

I've got him blocked so I don't bother reading his posts. It's called slow growing because it is slower than a normal feeding schedule. The opposite of power feeding is maintenance feeding, ie feeding just enough for the animal to maintain size and weight.

[Mikoh4792]

I've got him blocked so I don't bother reading his posts. It's called slow growing because it is slower than a normal feeding schedule. The opposite of power feeding is maintenance feeding, ie feeding just enough for the animal to maintain size and weight.

ah lol, I wasn't aware there was a block function.

Anyways, that's very confusing. For example, if you put a young snake on a maintenance regimen, isn't that in a way starving the animal?(since you are keeping the snake from growing if your goal is to maintain size and weight).

And if slow growing is slower than a normal feeding schedule, wouldn't that kind of fit into my definition of these words?( slow growing being on the opposite end of power feeding...ie. slow growing - normal/proper growing - power feeding.)

[millertime89]

The block function is useful. You still see that they posted, you just don't see what. You can then click "View Post" if you want to see what they said. I've got a few people blocked on here and they all know who they are. I don't know why they don't have me blocked since we seldom agree on anything and choose to not argue with them. It's just not worth my time and energy.

Eh, not really... Slow growing indicates the animal is still growing, maintenance feeding they're not, they're surviving. Power feeding isn't just giving them extra food or larger meals, it is feeding every chance possible. I'm talking every 2-3 days before they've even had a chance to digest their last meal. IMO there's 5 different feeding schedules that everyone's feeding regimens can fall under, power feeding, feeding extra, normal, slow grown, maintenance feeding. The middle 3 are all acceptable to me, the extremes are not. Power feeding is actually probably a bigger concern for me as it results in obesity which can lead to health and reproductive issues for the animal.