I was offered a collection from my neighbor. Help?

[SuperSleuth]

Last night I was talking to my fellow herper neighbor about having him build me a display cage and he offered to sell me his entire collection of Balls. I don't own balls myself (I have a red tail and two BRBs) but I know he's offering me a spectacular deal for his whole collection. He said he doesn't have the time for them anymore and just wants to sell them all, but I'm concerned because he said that one of them is very picky and she hasn't eaten in a year (she's four years old I believe). At what point would you force feed a snake? Certainly after a year goes by? I'd hate to buy his collection and have some of them die on me... Though the supplies, racks and display cages alone would cover my investment anyways. I'm sure I could give them a better home than they are in now, he said he hasn't even been in his snake room in a couple weeks. Wow.

Anyways, he wants $500 for everything which includes a Pied, a 100% het pied, a 66% het pied, a cinnamon, a normal, and he said his breeder friend is caring for a pair of 100% het pies that are also his and would talk to the guy about throwing those in as well. As far as supplies, he has three 36" display cages (like Boa Master's), two small snake racks, a third (partially unfinished) snake rack, a Herpstat 4, flex watt heating panels and the overhead type heating panels (I can't recall the name of), etc. I know there is more stuff that I just can't remember.

Anyways, would this be too much of an undertaking to take on? I'm mostly concerned about the snakes themselves since they haven't eaten in so long. He said he tries to feed them once a month but they haven't eaten in a long time. Most of them ate in November and I believe one of them are in February, but he said they are all pretty picky eaters except the Pied. I don't need all the supplies, especially all the extra racks, so I'm assuming I could sell them on Craigslist or something? If I do take them, is there possibly someone here in the Austin area that would be interested in looking them over for me to see whether they appear healthy or would need to see a vet?

[jpsteele80]

I'd be interested in that collection for that price, that herpastat 4 alone is worth at least 3 hundred dollars, I live about an hour and 45 minutes away from Austin, if I were you I'd grab it for that price but I'd also be worried about snakes that have not eatin in almost a year and some that have not eatin in weeks, if you didn't want them all you could nurse them back to health and then get rid of what you didn't want, I'd make the trip just for that herpastat

[FWK]

Same, I'm about three hours south of Austin and I'd jump all over that. I'd pay that just for the equipment. I've taken in a couple craigslist rescues and in both cases I was told the snake was a very picky eater and would only eat live mice and only if left alone with the prey for 20-30 minutes. In both cases once I got the snake settled in and the husbandry issues fixed they not only took a F/T rat the first time it was offered they both hit it hard and took it right off the tongs. I'm not saying there are no picky eaters but I'd be willing to bet the problem is more often husbandry issues than a truly picky snake.

[FWK]

If you do take them in be sure to quarantine them properly.

[jpsteele80]

I'd be willing to bet it's husbandry issues, especially if he doesn't feed them but once a month, sounds like he just doesn't care about them

[JWFugle]

sucks hes treated them so poorly. id atleast try and take it. get with these guys maybe split profits sort of thing for help with the animals if they are that bad off... my 2 cents

[SuperSleuth]

Definitely quarantine them... No reason to have them anywhere close to my boas anyways. I'm super paranoid about spreading mites or disease. I'd move the boas out of my office and set all the balls up in there as a total quarantine room (no one goes in there but me).

I'm going over there Monday to look at everything and hope the balls are healthy. He said he'll have to check and make sure they're all alive still... Really?! He doesn't do anything for them for humidity so maybe that's part of the eating problem. He had a 7-year plan to breed panda pieds and I may or may not continue on with that, depending on whether or not I want to invest the time and money in it. I'd rather them be healthy.

[wrecker45]

I have a normal ball. Started eating a week and a half ago after seven months. Three rats in a week and a half.

[FWK]

Definitely quarantine them... No reason to have them anywhere close to my boas anyways. I'm super paranoid about spreading mites or disease. I'd move the boas out of my office and set all the balls up in there as a total quarantine room (no one goes in there but me).

Awesome man, you'll have to keep us updated on their progress.

I'm going over there Monday to look at everything and hope the balls are healthy. He said he'll have to check and make sure they're all alive still... Really?! He doesn't do anything for them for humidity so maybe that's part of the eating problem. He had a 7-year plan to breed panda pieds and I may or may not continue on with that, depending on whether or not I want to invest the time and money in it. I'd rather them be healthy.

This is what happens when someone cares more about potential profits than the animals themselves. I've seen it over and over again. And not just with reptiles.

[SuperSleuth]

This is what happens when someone cares more about potential profits than the animals themselves. I've seen it over and over again. And not just with reptiles.

Exactly. I show Great Danes, so I'm well aware of the world of breeding for profit. Animals aren't ATM machines, and even though snakes aren't dogs, they're still living, breathing animals that don't deserve the abuse. Snakes are even worse off than dogs, they can be relegated to inadequate living conditions their entires lives and most people won't ever find out or care. Even if they did find out, I highly doubt the consequences would be bad enough to make an example out of anyone.

[JWFugle]

I highly doubt the consequences would be bad enough to make an example out of anyone.

and even if they did it would just make snake breeders look even worse

[SuperSleuth]

My husband doesn't want me to get them. I feel awful for the snakes... He's doesn't want to waste the money if they are just going to die or if they have any diseases. He told me to go look at them tomorrow and we'll revisit the conversation... But right now it isn't looking so good. I'm looking for suggestions on how I can talk him into getting them. He said I can't save every animal (I'm a sucker for sick pets) but I don't feel comfortable leaving them there. Him not going in there for weeks is reason enough to get them out of there. You know they can't possibly have any water or anything in there.

[jpsteele80]

Understandable you want to save these animals but a snake that has not eatin in almost a year ( from neglect and poor husbandry I'm guessing) might be really hard to get back on track

[Tsubaki]

I would consider this though, if you don't buy the animals.. what will happen to them? Will he dare to bring a neglected collection into the market? And what kind of person would even buy them? - Would that be someone just after the equipment and 'get rid of' the snakes in whatever way they deem fit? Also.. If he does not sell them to anyone else.. If he can neglect them for weeks, whats stopping him from just throwing them outside? Even taking them home, putting the really sick ones down and only focusing on the ones that have a real shot to live would be a better option. - Just my personal opinion.

[FWK]

I would consider this though, if you don't buy the animals.. what will happen to them? Will he dare to bring a neglected collection into the market? And what kind of person would even buy them? - Would that be someone just after the equipment and 'get rid of' the snakes in whatever way they deem fit? Also.. If he does not sell them to anyone else.. If he can neglect them for weeks, whats stopping him from just throwing them outside? Even taking them home, putting the really sick ones down and only focusing on the ones that have a real shot to live would be a better option. - Just my personal opinion.

Agreed. But if y'all decide you can't take them on I'm willing to make the drive to pick them up. I'm very confident in my ability to rehab all sorts of neglected critters having taken in many over the years (rabbits, dogs, birds, fish, reptiles etc.). Assuming jpsteele80 passes his dibs, he did post before me. Keep us posted.

[jpsteele80]

If you can take them go ahead and grab them, I'm about 200 short at the moment which saddens me but anyone that can get them back up to top notch health I say go for it and keep us posted

[SuperSleuth]

My husband is willing to reconsider the idea after I go look at them today. He'd rather me keep the equipment and 'dump' the snakes but I put my foot down and said hell no. The problem is that the neighbors talked to him last night and told him the snakes all bite and they think they are carrying diseases... But none of the other neighbors have reptiles or reptile experience so I'm sure my husband is overreacting. Honestly I'm not even sure how many diseases snakes can get, especially without dying after not eating for a year. I did go see the snakes when I moved here a few months ago and they seemed visibly okay.

I'll get pictures of everything today... But I wouldn't be able to take them until the 6th. My mother in law is deathly afraid of snakes and is staying with us for a few days and I won't have anywhere else to keep them without putting them in the same room as my boas.

If anything, I'll let you guys know and worst case scenario I'll set it up for someone here to take them. Would anyone be willing to split the collection with me in case I can't handle them all?

[FWK]

My husband is willing to reconsider the idea after I go look at them today. He'd rather me keep the equipment and 'dump' the snakes but I put my foot down and said hell no. The problem is that the neighbors talked to him last night and told him the snakes all bite and they think they are carrying diseases... But none of the other neighbors have reptiles or reptile experience so I'm sure my husband is overreacting. Honestly I'm not even sure how many diseases snakes can get, especially without dying after not eating for a year. I did go see the snakes when I moved here a few months ago and they seemed visibly okay.

I'll get pictures of everything today... But I wouldn't be able to take them until the 6th. My mother in law is deathly afraid of snakes and is staying with us for a few days and I won't have anywhere else to keep them without putting them in the same room as my boas.

If anything, I'll let you guys know and worst case scenario I'll set it up for someone here to take them. Would anyone be willing to split the collection with me in case I can't handle them all?

Definitely. I'll take any of them you don't want to keep and I can make use of the equipment as well. I have a number of colubrids that are rapidly outgrowing their baby tubs and enclosures. I'm building three foot enclosures out of plywood but picking up some extra plastics enclosures would be awesome, save me a lot of time and work. And I can always use more racks. However it wouldn't be worth the drive to me for just a couple snakes and one rack. Especially if the snakes are already in a good home.

In the meantime if you are still considering taking them in use the week and a half you have before you pick them up to research common issues like mouth rot, respiratory infections, skin ailments, parasites, etc. so you know what to look for and how to treat them.

[SuperSleuth]

Yessir I just spent the last half hour looking at illnesses and diseases like IBD. I'm assuming that IBD is the one everyone worries about? I'll try to put my hands on all of them today and see if I find anything wrong with them. If I do take them then I'd probably sell the display tanks, extra racks and maybe the Herpstat. I'd have to see what else he's offering to see whether or not I'd need it or sell it. If you're interested I could also drive and meet you halfway.

[jpsteele80]

Please let me know if you want to sell that herpastat, been wanting one

[FWK]

Awesome! Let us know how they are doing. Take pictures of them if he doesn't mind. No, take pictures anyway. He doesn't have the right to mind, hes made it clear he doesn't care. :pissedoff:

[SuperSleuth]

I'm trying to get a game plan together so I can tell my husband how I plan to get them healthy. Bring them home, soak them for a little bit, fix the humidity in their tubs, and feed them in a couple of days? I read somewhere online that gerbils are good idea for picky eaters, is that true? How often should they eat? Weekly? More? Wait before trying to force feed?

[Karighan]

Chicks also work for some picky eaters.

[FWK]

Depends a lot on their current condition but I'd be willing to bet they are dehydrated and that's the first thing I'd address. Get their tubs set up properly with a water bowl large enough for them to soak in and leave them alone for a day or two. I took in a Boa a while back that very nearly doubled in weight literally overnight just by leaving her alone so she could re-hydrate herself. Once they are properly hydrated any stuck shed will be much easier to deal with. I wouldn't worry to much with small bits of stuck shed initially but check their eyes carefully for retained eye caps and look for any stuck shed that wraps all the way around that could cause a restriction in blood flow. The first snake I took in was a Ball Python and she had been retaining eye caps for so long her eyes were damaged. They cleared up pretty well after a few good sheds but I don't think they will ever be perfect.

As for feeding again let them settle in a bit. Make sure they have good hides, Balls are naturally very shy and may refuse to eat if they do not feel safe. I would offer whatever your neighbor says he fed them in the past. Offer food just after dark, Balls are nocturnal and tend to be much more receptive at night. Turn a light on in the next room so you have just enough light to see. Pre-scenting can help a lot, while I have the rodent thawing I'll take the hemostats I feed with and dip them in the water then stick it in the tubs vent holes. Another thing I find helpful is to offer the rodents very warm to the touch. Pythons have heat sensing pits and a warm rodent really gets their attention. I just use warm tap water to warm the rodents. If they are still hesitant try braining the rodent. It's a little gross but can really pay off. Just use a sharp knife to split the rodents skull and expose brain matter. I have yet to meet a snake that could resist a brained mouse or rat. If they don't eat the first time give it a week and try again. Be patient, as long as they are not loosing weight you are alright. I feed on the same night every week. Pythons tend to like relatively large meal. A food item that is one to one and a half times as big around as the snake at its thickest point is a good rule of thumb. Adults can be fed once every two weeks. Be patent and persistent, they want to eat. They just need some things more than food, like water and security. They will come around.

[jpsteele80]

I'm trying to get a game plan together so I can tell my husband how I plan to get them healthy. Bring them home, soak them for a little bit, fix the humidity in their tubs, and feed them in a couple of days? I read somewhere online that gerbils are good idea for picky eaters, is that true? How often should they eat? Weekly? More? Wait before trying to force feed?

I wouldn't be worried about how often to feed them, I would just be worried about getting them to eat at all, especially the one that hasn't eatin in almost a year, if you can get him to eat start him out slow, that digestive track hasn't had to work for a long time

[jpsteele80]

Also just to get things jump started see if you can find someone that has some ASF rats, they might be more inclined to take one of those

[SuperSleuth]

I just walked over to look at them and didn't get to. He said he still hasn't checked on them and after he did he would get back to me later this week :( Not the news I wanted to hear... My husband is now very leery of the deal and wants to back out.

[jpsteele80]

That would make me leary as well to go over and check on them and you can't, what is he hiding? Does he want money first and then you get to see what you get? Something doesn't sound right

[SuperSleuth]

No, he hasn't asked for the money up front. I'm sure if any were dead that they would have a smell right? When's the last time they had water? :(

[FWK]

Ugg really hating this dude. :unhappy: He's probably embarrassed with how badly he's neglected them and wants to clean up a bit before you see them.

[jpsteele80]

^^^ agreed

[SuperSleuth]

It looks like we won't be getting them :( My husband and I talked about it again and we're both worried that I don't have enough experience with sick reptiles to get them healthy again. I would however happily broker the deal for someone on here and even meet part way with everything just to make sure that they go to a good home. I can let my neighbor know that I found someone who wants everything and he doesn't even have to meet them if he doesn't want to, which I highly doubt he would want to considering the probable condition of the snakes. I don't want a penny for gas or anything, I just want them taken care of. I'll try to talk to him tomorrow and see if I can get any answers out of him. If he does agree with the deal, I'm not sure if he would still be willing to throw in that het pied pair his friend is borrowing (and who knows... They're probably better off with the friend anyways).

[FWK]

I'm still in for the whole deal. I'll even take the other pair if he does still want to add them. I'll make a thread with pics and let you watch their progress. Let me know what he says tomorrow.

[jpsteele80]

As much as I hate to say it that's probably the right decision, chances are some of them are going to need attention from the vet and you would end up running up some serious vet bills

[Teal]

Oh wow, those poor snakes ): Here I am, desperate for (but cannot afford) a pied, and he's got one that might be dead from neglect?? ): Just goes to show you that even "valuable" animals aren't always properly cared for. I hope someone on here is able to get these guys!

[SuperSleuth]

Thanks FWK. I think one of his big hesitations is that he doesn't want to sell them to me, have one die, and then me be upset because he sold me something sick. I'll let him know that you already know that they haven't eaten in a long time and you're willing to take that on. Fingers crossed that I can get them out of there quickly... And hoping I can fit everything in my husband's pickup truck.

[SuperSleuth]

JPS, it's not so much the vet bills that bother me, but them being worse off because I don't know what I'm doing to get them healthy again. It makes me so angry! They deserve better.

Teal, I agree with you. Also that he not only has the pied but several Het pieds.... Just wasting away because he just doesn't care.

[jpsteele80]

Sometimes there just to far gone to bring back and sometimes you get lucky, hopefully who ever gets them will be able to bring them all back to health

[FWK]

Any news SuperSleuth?

[SuperSleuth]

No news... Yesterday and today I saw him smoking on his front porch as I was pulling in my driveway but by the time I got out of my car he'd hurried inside :( If I have to I will knock on his door tomorrow and hope he answers.