different supstrates

[JWFugle]

does anyone else have these issues? i am sick of it and looking for alternative substrate. currently using eco earth. im thinking of doing some sort of large river rocks or like fish tank pebbles. what do you guys use/suggest and not suggest? i know pine is bad but looking for something that looks good not paper towl...

this happens a lot after eating. :/

[JWFugle]

it looks like she has a dip in haha...

but all seriousness i dont like it. after a day or two to digest if she still has it i will take her out and gently rub her face and can usually brush it out without stressing her too much. but it just shouldnt be a problem and i want it fixed.

[MCB]

I was like you always looking for something I felt happy with, reptil bark, orchard bark, mulch, etc, tried the lot but was never right, ended up using paper and will never use anything else now. Not much help I know, sorry.

[Moreau]

I too had a go at coco coir, didn't like how dusty/dirty it was. I also found it difficult to locate every brown pile that wasn't coco husk lol!

I have since switched to indented brown kraft paper. Comes in giant rolls, is nice and thick, looks better than white paper towel and works fantastic.

[sharthun]

Have you guys tried sani chips? Very small uniform aspen chips.Almost dust free. Easy to locate messes and spot clean, clumps like kitty litter. I just have colubrids and I switched a few months ago, and will never go back to regular aspen bedding.

Native Earth Aspen Sani Chips 2.2 Cubic Foot Bedding | Free Shipping - Pet360 Pet Parenting Simplified (http://www.pet360.com/product/9215/native-earth-aspen-sani-chips-22-cubic-foot-bedding)

[MCB]

Have you guys tried sani chips? Very small uniform aspen chips.Almost dust free. Easy to locate messes and spot clean, clumps like kitty litter. I just have colubrids and I switched a few months ago, and will never go back to regular aspen bedding.

Native Earth Aspen Sani Chips 2.2 Cubic Foot Bedding | Free Shipping - Pet360 Pet Parenting Simplified (http://www.pet360.com/product/9215/native-earth-aspen-sani-chips-22-cubic-foot-bedding)

Just read some reviews on this and reports are very favourable, might try this in my corn rack, thanks for this :)

[sharthun]

Just read some reviews on this and reports are very favourable, might try this in my corn rack, thanks for this :)

Np, Knox, a fellow forum member recommended this substrate to me awhile back. My snakes and myself love it! Especially cleaning time! It's a breeze! And they stay fresh for a very long time because of the ease of spot cleaning. Of course I don't know how it would work with large snakes. Someone needs to test it lol!:D

[JWFugle]

Have you guys tried sani chips? Very small uniform aspen chips.Almost dust free. Easy to locate messes and spot clean, clumps like kitty litter. I just have colubrids and I switched a few months ago, and will never go back to regular aspen bedding.

Native Earth Aspen Sani Chips 2.2 Cubic Foot Bedding | Free Shipping - Pet360 Pet Parenting Simplified (http://www.pet360.com/product/9215/native-earth-aspen-sani-chips-22-cubic-foot-bedding)

that stuff looks pretty good. can i ask, do you feed inside the cage and find the pellets stick to the mice/rats? thats my only concern is it will still stick and get caught in her mouth like this coco stuff...

[JWFugle]

I was like you always looking for something I felt happy with, reptil bark, orchard bark, mulch, etc, tried the lot but was never right, ended up using paper and will never use anything else now. Not much help I know, sorry.


yea i hear you, but i just cant do paper... idk what it is about it but i hate it in my cage.

i also only have 1 snake so clean up and expenses are not even remotely as much of an issue compared to some guys and gals on here.

[EL Ziggy]

Thanks to brother Steve here, I'm also a sani chips fan. Very easy to clean and holds burrows well for all my snakes.

[sharthun]

that stuff looks pretty good. can i ask, do you feed inside the cage and find the pellets stick to the mice/rats? thats my only concern is it will still stick and get caught in her mouth like this coco stuff...

I feed inside the encolsures. I usually place the prey on a flat rock or one of their hides. Sometimes they ingest small amounts of the chips but that can happen with any substrate including soil. I haven't had any issues at all with the sani chips.

http://i789.photobucket.com/albums/yy177/midgetzombiekiller/20140416_193904_zpsxro0i0cy.jpg (http://s789.photobucket.com/user/midgetzombiekiller/media/20140416_193904_zpsxro0i0cy.jpg.html)

[JWFugle]

so im going around my local pet shop and ran into this stuff in the fish department...

i dont think it sticking to any prey, but i do wonder about how trying to spot clean would go... any urinate i think would just run through and pile at the bottom leaving unpleasant smells.

Petco Aztec Bronze Aquarium Gravel at PETCO (http://www.petco.com/product/115872/Petco-Aztec-Bronze-Aquarium-Gravel.aspx?CoreCat=MM_FishSupplies_GravelSubstrat es)

Petco Frosted Jade Aquarium Gravel at PETCO (http://www.petco.com/product/115875/Petco-Frosted-Jade-Aquarium-Gravel.aspx?CoreCat=MM_FishSupplies_GravelSubstrat es)

or just regular large outdoor gravel?? (washed and heat treated first of course)

pros: wont stick to prey, rocks will hold heat better, washable and reusable when soiled, any color combo i could want

cons: noisy rocks on plastic, non absorbent, heavy

[JWFugle]

I feed inside the encolsures. I usually place the prey on a flat rock or one of their hides. Sometimes they ingest small amounts of the chips but that can happen with any substrate including soil. I haven't had any issues at all with the sani chips.


nice. yea i guess i could do that with a plastic lid or plate.(hard to move rocks pig enough to fit XL rats and rabbits on though haha :P )

[MCB]

I've also just read that it causes no impaction if digested. A lot say it's better for neonates too.

[sharthun]

nice. yea i guess i could do that with a plastic lid or plate.(hard to move rocks pig enough to fit XL rats and rabbits on though haha :P )

My snakes always drag the feeders onto the chips anyway lol So, I may as well just lay them on the substrate.

[Moreau]

Aspen chip is fantastic, I would still use it if it weren't for the problem that the stuff ends up tracked all over the house lol! Works great for burrowers and non burrowers. I had no trouble whatsoever with impaction. Little bits would stick to the rodents, but not enough to cause trouble, if you dry the rats/mice off before feeding.

[infernalis]

go dig up the lawn... I am a huge fan of natural dirt. set it up right and never clean a cage again.

Monitor Lizard Forums - Bio Active Soil (http://www.varanustalk.com/forum/index.php?pageid=Dirt)

the bacteria in the dirt digest the poop:cool:

[Jim Smith]

Thanks for the recommendations Sharthune. I've been using regular Aspen bedding and while it works fine for the snakes, the small pieces get all over the house. I try to keep it all picked up, but it seems that every time I take a snake out to handle it, feed it or clean the water bowl etc., more of the tiny slivers of wood get spread around. Unfortunately, 95% of the time I go barefoot around the house and I've picked up some nasty splinters in the bottoms of my feet that are next to impossible for me to reach:(

I'll make the switch over to Sani Chips next time I order substrate.

[Sublimeballs]

While I'd love to try sanichips out, I wouldn't use them for your retic. Doesn't hold humidity that well. If you're set on not using paper(clean up is super easy with the massive amounts of retic piss), you could go with 100% cypress mulch. You can order a 30-50lbs bag from reptile basics for like $25 shipped.

But as Wayne said you could go bio active. After the micro eviroment is established you don't have to clean the cage anymore. And nothing looks better then making nature in a box, as far as cages go that is.

[xT!FFx]

Coconut husk- discolors water when it gets in the water bowls but that's normal
Eucalyptus mulch- good source of warmth
Corn cob husks- easy to clean and locks in moisture
Keenaf- Wood chip based substrate also easy to clean.

[JWFugle]

go dig up the lawn... I am a huge fan of natural dirt. set it up right and never clean a cage again.

Monitor Lizard Forums - Bio Active Soil (http://www.varanustalk.com/forum/index.php?pageid=Dirt)

the bacteria in the dirt digest the poop:cool:

cool article and i agree that sounds great guess im just pessimistic about it working. its a boaphile so i feel its not quite deep enough like most of the monitor cages that use the bioactive setup(that i have seen). am i wrong about that? at most mine would be 2-3 inches deep.

i have a spare tub i could collect some dirt and what not and play around with it. do you mix up the dirt to cover the urante and poop each time?

[JWFugle]

Infernalis - just spent the last 20-30ish minutes looking though all the other "bio-active" post around here and other forums. this will be my saturday project for sure.
still questioning the depth issue with this boaphile(wishing i had time to build big custom cage, not a fan of tubs at all) :-/

everyone else - thanks for the ideas and points, ill post pics afterwards

[Pirarucu]

I second the suggestion to use bioactive soil, covered with a layer of leaf litter. On it now and never going back.
I would have to disagree with never cleaning the cage. With monitors and smaller animals, that is usually the case. With an animal that takes a dump the size of a football, you need to spot clean for sure unless you have it in an extremely large cage. The majority of private retic keepers use cages that simply aren't large enough to handle the bioload that an animal like a retic will put on it.

[sharthun]

I second the suggestion to use bioactive soil, covered with a layer of leaf litter. On it now and never going back.
I would have to disagree with never cleaning the cage. With monitors and smaller animals, that is usually the case. With an animal that takes a dump the size of a football, you need to spot clean for sure unless you have it in an extremely large cage. The majority of private retic keepers use cages that simply aren't large enough to handle the bioload that an animal like a retic will put on it.

I like that word "bioload" much better than "biodump"!:p

[JWFugle]

The majority of private retic keepers use cages that simply aren't large enough to handle the bioload that an animal like a retic will put on it.

I like that word "bioload" much better than "biodump"!:p

haha my thought exactly, thats what they are though... at 7ft ish she rivals that of a springer spaniel we had growing up.

[JWFugle]

well here is my first attempt at making a bioactive substrate. went out in the woods dug up some dirt, sticks, leaves, worms and bugs and mixed it all up and put it in there. we have more clay like dirt down here so i may go get some organic topsoil to make it mix a little better.

(fyi) i have a large water tub i keep in there, not pictured)

anything else i could add or do? temps sit well at 82-85 high side, 60-80% humidity

[Pirarucu]

I keep my hot side at around 95F ambient temperatures and he uses those temps regularly, if you want to give that a try. Other than that it looks good, what are the dimensions?
You might try ordering some starter cultures of isopods, springtails, etc. Sites that sell dart frogs will usually carry them, and they're cheap.

[JWFugle]

I keep my hot side at around 95F ambient temperatures and he uses those temps regularly, if you want to give that a try. Other than that it looks good, what are the dimensions?
You might try ordering some starter cultures of isopods, springtails, etc. Sites that sell dart frogs will usually carry them, and they're cheap.

from what ive seen around here that seems a bit on the warm side no?? as i said my high side sits at 85ish and she regularly travels between hot side, cool side and swims, like clock work after i feed her she will go into her water bowl and soak for hours sometimes.

ive been collecting the little pill bugs(rollie pollies if you ask a kid) and worms, would roaches be ok? or could they harm the snake somehow?

o and cage is a boaphile 322D 3ftX17inx24in

[Pirarucu]

As long as they can escape those higher temps there's nothing wrong with them. Elsewhere about 90F seem to be fairly standard, actually. He uses the higher temps regularly but just doesn't spend as long on the warm side.
Pillbugs are fine, I wouldn't go with roaches though. If it were a monitor or something that would eat them it wouldn't be an issue, but in a snake cage they will just breed like crazy and get out into the house.

[RBDTerrell]

Have you guys tried sani chips? Very small uniform aspen chips.Almost dust free. Easy to locate messes and spot clean, clumps like kitty litter. I just have colubrids and I switched a few months ago, and will never go back to regular aspen bedding.

Native Earth Aspen Sani Chips 2.2 Cubic Foot Bedding | Free Shipping - Pet360 Pet Parenting Simplified (http://www.pet360.com/product/9215/native-earth-aspen-sani-chips-22-cubic-foot-bedding)

I used to use sani chips and other than it making a mess EVERYWHERE, I liked it because of the reasons you just listed. I have since switched to newspaper and haven't gone back lol.

[sharthun]

I used to use sani chips and other than it making a mess EVERYWHERE, I liked it because of the reasons you just listed. I have since switched to newspaper and haven't gone back lol.

Yeah, that's the only disadvantage I found. But, I will keep using them.:D Keeping a shop vac close by helps. lol

[gts4749]

Ive been using this stuff called duragrid or, dri-dek is another brand its essentially the same though. its anti bacterial and anti fungal and extremely easy to spot messes and clean them (simply spray off and sanitize). no problems with ingesting somthing they shouldnt. Its a very clean, safe and better looking alternative to newspaper. Here is a link Buy Indoor Interlocking Mats and Flooring by DuraGrid (http://www.duragrid.com/inorder.html) personally i use the crossrib. not sure why the link appears as an ad, duragrid.com

[JWFugle]

Ive been using this stuff called duragrid or, dri-dek is another brand its essentially the same though. its anti bacterial and anti fungal and extremely easy to spot messes and clean them (simply spray off and sanitize). no problems with ingesting somthing they shouldnt. Its a very clean, safe and better looking alternative to newspaper. Here is a link Buy Indoor Interlocking Mats and Flooring by DuraGrid (http://www.duragrid.com/inorder.html) personally i use the crossrib. not sure why the link appears as an ad, duragrid.com

interesting looking stuff pretty sure we used stuff like that for showers and locker rooms in school. now isnt it still a pain to clean up urinate and any liquids that just flow around? maybe im missing something but that sounds like a pain to me. could you post a picture?

[gts4749]

sure thing, heres some pics. if you want to see anything different let me know. liquid wastes arent really much of a pain in my opinion. if i notice any solid waste or droplets from recent urination ill remove the tiles (which connect) and thoroughly rinse them off and then sanitize them. once they are dry ill replace them. There are feet on the bottom of the tiles allowing the waste to flow out of reach of the reptiles, so when i remove the tiles i simply wipe up and sanitize. this is my favorite feature of the product, it makes sure my snakes arent wallowing in their own filth. also yeah this is probably the same stuff that was in your locker rooms in school due to the anti bacterial and fungal properties.

[Batessi]

sure thing, heres some pics. if you want to see anything different let me know. liquid wastes arent really much of a pain in my opinion. if i notice any solid waste or droplets from recent urination ill remove the tiles (which connect) and thoroughly rinse them off and then sanitize them. once they are dry ill replace them. There are feet on the bottom of the tiles allowing the waste to flow out of reach of the reptiles, so when i remove the tiles i simply wipe up and sanitize. this is my favorite feature of the product, it makes sure my snakes arent wallowing in their own filth. also yeah this is probably the same stuff that was in your locker rooms in school due to the anti bacterial and fungal properties.

Thank you my good man, I have been looking for a good substrate that I can just clean as needed. I will have to order a few sheets next paycheck.

What species have you used it on so far?

Thanks again.

[KarenL]

Your eco-earth looks very dry which could be the problem. What are your humidity levels? I use a mixture of eco-earth, organic topsoil and sand, with a few handfuls of gravel mixed in. My tanks are planted so I have a 1" drainage layer (clay balls) covered by nylon screening at the bottom. I water straight to the bottom through a plastic tube so the lower level of the substrate is damper than the top, and I aim for humidity of 50-60%. The substrate holds burrows well and my cornsnake enjoys burrowing but I've never seen any substrate stuck to her. I feed her on the cork flats in the tank.

[gts4749]

Not a problem batessi. I have a ball python as well as a BCI both enclosures are using the duragrid. The tiles are easy enough to cut to fit any size enclosure by the way

[JWFugle]

Your eco-earth looks very dry which could be the problem. What are your humidity levels? I use a mixture of eco-earth, organic topsoil and sand, with a few handfuls of gravel mixed in. My tanks are planted so I have a 1" drainage layer (clay balls) covered by nylon screening at the bottom. I water straight to the bottom through a plastic tube so the lower level of the substrate is damper than the top, and I aim for humidity of 50-60%. The substrate holds burrows well and my cornsnake enjoys burrowing but I've never seen any substrate stuck to her. I feed her on the cork flats in the tank.

yea the eco earth dries out real quick but the dirt and clay in holds all the moisture and just gets balled up around the eco earth. my humidity sits at 65-80% but that ecoearth just does not mix well with my areas clay, mud, dirt, stuff. besides going out and buying organic black dirt from the store theres no real dirt here. im playing with it and seeing what i can do with it.

[JWFugle]

liquid wastes arent really much of a pain in my opinion. if i notice any solid waste or droplets from recent urination ill remove the tiles (which connect) and thoroughly rinse them off and then sanitize them. once they are dry ill replace them. There are feet on the bottom of the tiles allowing the waste to flow out of reach of the reptiles, so when i remove the tiles i simply wipe up and sanitize. this is my favorite feature of the product, it makes sure my snakes arent wallowing in their own filth.

ok ok yea that looks real nice like that. ill have to give that stuff another look over. if i cant get this bio sub the way i want it, i might go your route. thanks