Meet the new family memberw

[Alisa-D]

I thought I would introduce Yogi and Koko to everyone, our new boscs.
They are living in a 4x2x2 at the moment but will be getting a bigger viv very soon. You can't see in the pic very well but they have 3 inches of soil at the front and in the middle of the viv at the back it is 10 inches.
I have put a lot of work into the viv thos week redoing what the shop owner said. We got them from a pet shop that had a few reps in the corner and he said to keep them with no humidity, wood chippings and a 4x2 and once they get to a year old a 6x2 which he would get in for us when needed.
We got 2 because he said most die at this age so he always recommends two so atleast one should survive.

I've now been to the garden centre and picked up topsoil, moss and a few fake plants and been to the local woods and picked some decent size branches they love climbing on.

Pic of them is a rare one of them under the basking light yogi is the bigger one at the back.

They diffinately are happier now.

[Alisa-D]

Koko looking out his hollow log. Yogi was to fast to get a photo

[EL Ziggy]

Congrats on the beautiful new additions Alisa.

[sharthun]

Congrats!!!! :)

[murrindindi]

Hi, can you give some details of the ambient and surface temps plus the humidity level and how you measure them, also info on the wattage and type of heat/lighting?
How long before you can build a "proper" enclosure, one relatively large that will afford them room to retreat well away from each other, as there`s no doubt there will be domination issues almost from the start, which will be extremely stressful for both animals? No disrespect, these are very important considerations. :)

[Alisa-D]

Thanks for the replies.

At the moment they have a ceramic for keeping air temps and a basking bulb for the basking area.

I don't have any way of measuring humidity at the moment but do spray 2 times a day and the moss is always damp.

Pics of the basking area and the cool end temps

[murrindindi]

Hi again, thanks for more details. You haven`t said what the surface temp is at the basking site or how you measure it or what the wattage and brand of the basking bulb is?
You absolutely MUST get a digital hygrometer with a probe, here`s an example:
Digital Thermometer & Hygrometer Combined Gauge with remote probes Max/Min | eBay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/160772214729?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649)
The humidity needs to range between approx 50 to 70%+, the lower figure will be around the basking area, it may be higher than 70% in the hides/burrows, that ensures the animals will remain hydrated. Spraying them/the enclosure a couple of times a day is not enough considering the setup you have right now.
It`s most important you understand that their health suffers from day one, not at some point in the future.
I cannot see a basking area, what are you using as the surface object?
Edit: I do think that there are some good points, at least you`ve offered plenty of cover which is extremely important, and though you have some substrate it looks to be fairly loose, is that the case, if yes, it needs tamping down very firmly, as if you`d literally walked on it ( I know that isn`t possible unless you`re very, very small)!?

[jpsteele80]

Congrats on your new additions, have to agree though that I would start that cage now, there suffering for that entire year that they are waiting for it. Monitors are diggers by nature and you should have a minimum of 2 feet of dirt for them to dig in.

[infernalis]

Forget everything that shop owner said.....

Savannah Monitor Housing (http://www.savannahmonitor.net/housing/)

Infernalis1 - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/user/Infernalis1)

Captive Monitor Health! (http://www.varanid.us/gout/)

[infernalis]

hf9ZYapLxhg

dOv3G-dIG1E

[infernalis]

when they get bigger....

34WhWhH9r8w

[Pirarucu]

Hi again, thanks for more details. You haven`t said what the surface temp is at the basking site or how you measure it or what the wattage and brand of the basking bulb is?
You absolutely MUST get a digital hygrometer with a probe, here`s an example:
Digital Thermometer & Hygrometer Combined Gauge with remote probes Max/Min | eBay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/160772214729?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649)
The humidity needs to range between approx 50 to 70%+, the lower figure will be around the basking area, it may be higher than 70% in the hides/burrows, that ensures the animals will remain hydrated. Spraying them/the enclosure a couple of times a day is not enough considering the setup you have right now.
It`s most important you understand that their health suffers from day one, not at some point in the future.
I cannot see a basking area, what are you using as the surface object?
Edit: I do think that there are some good points, at least you`ve offered plenty of cover which is extremely important, and though you have some substrate it looks to be fairly loose, is that the case, if yes, it needs tamping down very firmly, as if you`d literally walked on it ( I know that isn`t possible unless you`re very, very small)!?In the pictures she posted, the basking area is being measured with a temperature gun, and is at 151F.

Alisa is not going by what the shop owner said, she was until she found sav.net and has modified their cage as much as she could accordingly. For that I say kudos, in most cases people know that changes need to be made but because _________ they won't be able to make changes right away. Good job making the changes right away.

[Alisa-D]

I am going to hopefully start the big cage soon.

They seem really happy at the moment, been watching them chasing crickets and running round the viv. They are still very shy, koko the smaller one is a little more confident and allows photos but Yogi runs a soon as he sees you.
I've not even handled them yet, as I doing the hands off approach.

Here is Koko looking for mealworms in the moss

[Alisa-D]

I had to go to the pet store I got them from today as my livefood order never came through the post yesterday. He still had some left from the same group I got mine from (I asked) mine are a lot bigger now than the ones left., they haven't really grown at all. Mine must be growing an inch a week :shocked:

[murrindindi]

I had to go to the pet store I got them from today as my livefood order never came through the post yesterday. He still had some left from the same group I got mine from (I asked) mine are a lot bigger now than the ones left., they haven't really grown at all. Mine must be growing an inch a week :shocked:

Hi, most petshops don`t keep their Varanids in particular at what these days are considered supportive conditions (sufficient basking surface temps, a decent humidity range, etc), therefore their animals may not grow at the average rate many well cared for captives do (not to suggest there actually are that many well cared for)! ;)
This species, like many others will average around 5 to 7cm+ per month (2 to 3 inches+) for the first year or so.

[Alisa-D]

I've noticed Yogi is a different shape to Koko. While Koko is slender, Yogi is becoming more bulky. They also have different head shapes, Koko head is narrow and pointy and Yogi's head is more broader and has a more stubby snout. Maybe they are male and female????


a rare picture of Yogi. Showing different head shape to Koko in my posts above

[murrindindi]

Hi, I think the reason one seems bulkier than the other is probably down to domination (stress), this will almost always happen when more than one animal shares the enclosure.

[Pirarucu]

The differing head shapes could be due to gender, but it's too early to tell. Any difference in body bulk is probably due to one stealing most of the food, it's far too early for males to begin bulking up. They are bottomless pits at this point, so you need to give lots of food to make sure they both get their fair share. Otherwise the more dominant of the pair will get most of it and not leave enough left for the smaller.

[Alisa-D]

I think I am going to try and seperate them so they can have their own space.

I have also just bought a dubia roach colony that I am picking up on saturday. Hopefully they will like roachies :rolleyes:

[Pirarucu]

I would not advise doing that. For one thing, if they grow up alone then as adults they will not be used to each other and may not know how to react to the other's presence. They learn how to interact while they are young, and this helps develop dominance behaviors that do not result in any lasting injuries. Adults that have not been able to learn these behaviors should not be introduced, as there is a good chance one could kill the other. I would only separate if there is serious fighting going on. So far it sounds to me like one is more bold than the other, and is hogging the food before the other gets to it. Just give them extra food to ensure they are both getting enough and they should be ok. And yes, they will like roaches.

[murrindindi]

I would not advise doing that. For one thing, if they grow up alone then as adults they will not be used to each other and may not know how to react to the other's presence. They learn how to interact while they are young, and this helps develop dominance behaviors that do not result in any lasting injuries. Adults that have not been able to learn these behaviors should not be introduced, as there is a good chance one could kill the other. I would only separate if there is serious fighting going on. So far it sounds to me like one is more bold than the other, and is hogging the food before the other gets to it. Just give them extra food to ensure they are both getting enough and they should be ok. And yes, they will like roaches.

Hi, when you say the dominance behaviours will not result in (lasting?) injuries, are you sure about that?

[Pirarucu]

Hi, when you say the dominance behaviours will not result in (lasting?) injuries, are you sure about that?Of course not, there are always exceptions. While young however it is unlikely that either will do the other any serious harm. If they were ever introduced as adults, they would be more likely to hurt each other if they were raised alone.
There are always risks when housing animals together, but I personally would risk housing them together as babies instead of introducing them later on.
This is, of course, assuming that the OP would introduce/house them together at some point. If that is not the case, then there is no risk.

[Mikoh4792]

Doesn't Wayne(Infernalis) house two savs together successfully?

[murrindindi]

Doesn't Wayne(Infernalis) house two savs together successfully?

Hi, can you define "successfully"?
Keeping 2 adult males in an enclosure only just big enough for one is really not supporting them properly at all in my opinion. There is regular stress caused by domination which is not healthy for either animal, and just because they are still alive after 2 years doesn`t mean much.
Obviously at the beginning he (Wayne) was hoping they were male and female, unfortunately not so, therefore absolutely no reason to keep them together at this time (other than it saves building another enclosure).
I`m fairly sure Wayne would not advise anyone else to do it this way knowing what he now knows.
The concern I have for the OP`s animals is that they are in a much smaller space than Wayne`s were, so the chances of something going badly wrong are that much greater.
Maybe the OP can try the transillumination technique to determine which gender she has (worth a try).

[murrindindi]

Of course not, there are always exceptions. While young however it is unlikely that either will do the other any serious harm. If they were ever introduced as adults, they would be more likely to hurt each other if they were raised alone.
There are always risks when housing animals together, but I personally would risk housing them together as babies instead of introducing them later on.
This is, of course, assuming that the OP would introduce/house them together at some point. If that is not the case, then there is no risk.

Hi again, my thoughts are that regular stress is unhealthy, so even if no serious physical injuries occur, stress itself can be a killer.
If the OP had a relatively large enclosure it may have helped a little, but she hasn`t. They can become sexually mature in several months or so if conditions support them, what happens if they are still housed in the present setup and one/both are female?

[Pirarucu]

I am not saying that they should remain together forever no matter what, I would definitely advise separating them if they reach a foot or so long without being moved to a bigger cage. I would never advise keeping two savs together without adequate space to avoid each other, I am simply saying that at their current size I believe their enclosure is large enough to house both of them together. They appear to be small babies, only a few inches long. A four foot cage is plenty big enough for two hatchlings, especially with it having as many visual barriers as it does.

[mdfmonitor]

have fun!! :)