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View Full Version : So Glitch has a kidney tumor.


Skits
04-14-14, 04:39 PM
Well we brought Glitch, my carpet python to the vets. Glitch has had one problem after another it seems, you can read some of my previous threads here to know more about his history.

First rescuing them: http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/morelia-spilota/103892-two-new-rescues.html

Story about the mass: http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/morelia-spilota/104970-growing-mass-snake-abscess.html

Basically, we took him to one vet today. We got a radiography exam done and found out he definitely had a mass in him and not a bacterial abscess. Got a bacterial test done and it's not blood or bacterial so he will definitely need surgery. Now I need to make an appointment with a specialist and find out exactly what it is. It's believed to either be in or near his right kidney. Anyone know what could be done next, or any advice?

https://scontent-b-lga.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/t1.0-9/1926720_10152243267964471_3688095554360288661_n.jp g

Derek Roddy
04-14-14, 05:10 PM
That blows.
That's what I expected the results would be though.

I'm very familiar with them in BHPs and have dealt with them a few times. Unfortunately, I've haven't had any luck having a snake "turn around" after such trauma to the internal organs.

Not saying it's not possible but, you might want to think about having it put down before occurring a nice sized vet bill... for a snake that has the likely hood of a 2% survival rate....don't know, hard one to call and only you can determine that.

good luck
D

Mikoh4792
04-14-14, 05:30 PM
How old is the snake?

Tsubaki
04-14-14, 05:38 PM
that sucks so bad, im sorry :(

jpsteele80
04-14-14, 05:38 PM
that sucks, sorry to hear the bad news

Skits
04-14-14, 05:55 PM
Thank you, I'm still going to try and save him. He's changed so much since I got him and I understand snakes don't feel what we feel, but I feel like he's appreciative of what we're doing for him. He's been through a lot, and he went from being a hissy carpet python to tolerant enough for me to handle and work with. He did awesome at the vets as well which I'm happy that he was.

Derek, did your BHP's act any different with the tumors? Did you ever try to get the surgery done? I'm curious how it would be afterwards. There's a good chance Glitch's tumor isn't in his kidney but beside it, but I'm sure at the size it's at, it would still do some damage..I'm hoping not.

There's no sure age but the vet did say "he's not young" and said he's at least three years old. I'm trying to raise money for him for now so I can get him the care he needs, and I'm trying to sell a few things, hopefully I can manage somehow. We're moving out very very soon (a month or less) so money's tight lately. It's really frustrating. But I'll find a way to make him better, or at least try my best for him.

I hope I don't get bashed on for not putting him to sleep. If I see that he's getting worse, I'll obviously keep an open mind but for now I want to keep trying.

Thanks everyone for the help and support I've gotten on here. :)

jpsteele80
04-14-14, 06:16 PM
There is no reason that anyone should bash you for doing what ever you can to save his life, I commend you for doing that my friend. Keep on fighting the good fight and don't give up until you don't have any options.

Skits
04-14-14, 06:25 PM
Thank you. I know sometimes people put their animals through things for selfish reasons but I have no way of believing Glitch is in pain, however I know reptiles don't show it.

It's been brought to my attention that it could be an inflamed organ as well, something I didn't think about, and maybe that's a reason why they extracted nothing (air, maybe?) from the mass.

Derek Roddy
04-14-14, 06:25 PM
Derek, did your BHP's act any different with the tumors? Did you ever try to get the surgery done? I'm curious how it would be afterwards. There's a good chance Glitch's tumor isn't in his kidney but beside it, but I'm sure at the size it's at, it would still do some damage..I'm hoping not.


They didn't. They ate and acted fairly normal....
Only up until the point the tumor took over and, in the instances which have been surgical....they ended up dying anyway a few months later.
A couple BHPs...I didn't notice a swelling because they were so overfed by their previous owners. It wasn't til I found them dead and cut them open to find the tumors.

The one sample I had done was a cancer related tumor.

Hard call.
If it stops eating and losing weight rapidly, you'll know what you need to do.

D

Skits
04-14-14, 06:35 PM
I hope all goes well with Glitch. Also sorry for your losses. It's stressful enough to deal with once, I can't imagine a few times.

Starbuck
04-14-14, 06:47 PM
Thank you. I know sometimes people put their animals through things for selfish reasons but I have no way of believing Glitch is in pain, however I know reptiles don't show it.

It's been brought to my attention that it could be an inflamed organ as well, something I didn't think about, and maybe that's a reason why they extracted nothing (air, maybe?) from the mass.

just because they didn't get anything from the map doesn't mean that its a tumor or even that its not an abscess abscesses are normally very hard and Keyshia so it's possible that the vet got it improper sample. I'm also a little skeptical that they said the snake is not young but definitely older than 3? 3 years is young for a carpet python and there's not a reliable way to determine age once they are adults without knowing the parents history or the coloration of the snake as a juvenile. Was the vet you took him to definitely a certified exotics veterinarian or are they predominately small animal? Did they take any other radio graphy views? I definitely think you should go ahead with the surgery but definitely do get an estimate first and don't break the bank if you don't have to. You also might want to consider the second opinion.

sharthun
04-14-14, 06:57 PM
Sorry to hear! Good luck with the recovery.

Skits
04-14-14, 07:06 PM
just because they didn't get anything from the map doesn't mean that its a tumor or even that its not an abscess abscesses are normally very hard and Keyshia so it's possible that the vet got it improper sample. I'm also a little skeptical that they said the snake is not young but definitely older than 3? 3 years is young for a carpet python and there's not a reliable way to determine age once they are adults without knowing the parents history or the coloration of the snake as a juvenile. Was the vet you took him to definitely a certified exotics veterinarian or are they predominately small animal? Did they take any other radio graphy views? I definitely think you should go ahead with the surgery but definitely do get an estimate first and don't break the bank if you don't have to. You also might want to consider the second opinion.

Thanks for your reply, I was confused about the three years too, but maybe she was giving an estimation. She told me there was no way of telling his age, but comparing him to my two year old CP, I don't know where she took three years old out of it. And yes she was certified for reptiles, she was the only vet there that knew about them and she knew the snake by scientific name and knew all the care behind the species which made me comfortable with her being Glitch's vet. I'm waiting for a call back tomorrow for an estimation as well, and I think I'll go ahead and get a second radiography done since I feel like not much got answered today.

Derek Roddy
04-14-14, 07:44 PM
Judging from the head shape and size of that animal....I'd say he's no older then 5 or 6. Fully mature carpets get really bulky "old looking" (don't know any other way to explain it... haha) head structures. That animal still has a rather "juvenile" head shape to be much older than 6.

D

Derek Roddy
04-14-14, 07:45 PM
I looked at your other thread...if you're wondering where I saw the pictures. If I was looking at the right animal....that is.

D

Skits
04-14-14, 07:55 PM
Thanks for the info :) I never knew you could judge on head shape. This is Glitch, I have two other CP's, one who came to me with Glitch and another that I've had for two years now.

https://scontent-a-lga.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/t1.0-9/1903982_10152201609634471_1636690600_n.jpg

Terranaut
04-15-14, 04:18 AM
I was afraid of this. IMHO unless you have a vet surgeon that has performed this type of work before with success I would consider euthanasia. Like Derek said there isn't a very high success rate with this tupe of procedure. I know you want what is best for him but the stress of recovery only to pass anyway is not it. You do whatever you are compelled to do but if there were my snake I would keep my vet money and stop any suffering. Just my $.02. Either way you are being morally responsible and a good keeper. Good luck.

Will0W783
04-15-14, 07:13 AM
I'm so sorry to hear about Glitch. I commend you for trying surgery; that's what I did for my large female emerald tree boa. Once the vet got inside though, he found that her tumor had taken over her stomach and large intestine so she just didn't wake up from the surgery. I would do what you can; no one can fault you for trying to save your pet's life, but try to be prepared in case you have to make a hard decision. Best of luck, you'll be in my thoughts. Please keep us posted.

formica
04-15-14, 09:17 AM
sorry to hear this, fingers are crossed for you!

Skits
04-15-14, 11:51 AM
Thanks all. I'm going to have to think about my options today.

Zoo Nanny
04-15-14, 04:22 PM
I'm really sorry about Glitch, hopefully the vet will find it to be something not as serious. There are credit cards available for veterinary care. In the US Care Credit is one, not sure if that is available in Canada. I did see one that one of my friends uses it's called Petcard or something like that. Best of luck to you.

Kera
04-16-14, 11:38 AM
I had the same problem with my carpet, she had 3 tumors. We caught it too late, she stopped eating and was starving to death. The vet gave us the option to euthanize or surgery, but said she might not have even made it through surgery and recovered fully.

Consider the best options, if you caught it early enough and have the money, go for surgery if you trust the vet. Euthanizing (if done at a vets office) will still cost money but not as much as surgery obviously. But if you're attached to the animal, that's hard to do. That was one of the hardest things I had to do, handing her over to the vet, bawling my eyes out.

I hope Glitch gets better, and I hope it's only a fatty tumor or nothing too serious. Best wishes, we won't judge your choice, it's a hard thing to do.

Will0W783
04-16-14, 12:22 PM
Any updates on Glitch? How did the vet visit go?

Skits
04-17-14, 09:57 PM
I'm really sorry about Glitch, hopefully the vet will find it to be something not as serious. There are credit cards available for veterinary care. In the US Care Credit is one, not sure if that is available in Canada. I did see one that one of my friends uses it's called Petcard or something like that. Best of luck to you.

Unfortunately I don't have credit built up yet, and my parents have bad credit so I wasn't able to get approved for one. :no: I called Petcard the first day I needed to get Glitch in and they denied.

I had the same problem with my carpet, she had 3 tumors. We caught it too late, she stopped eating and was starving to death. The vet gave us the option to euthanize or surgery, but said she might not have even made it through surgery and recovered fully.

Consider the best options, if you caught it early enough and have the money, go for surgery if you trust the vet. Euthanizing (if done at a vets office) will still cost money but not as much as surgery obviously. But if you're attached to the animal, that's hard to do. That was one of the hardest things I had to do, handing her over to the vet, bawling my eyes out.

I hope Glitch gets better, and I hope it's only a fatty tumor or nothing too serious. Best wishes, we won't judge your choice, it's a hard thing to do.

Unfortunately I don't have the money for it right now. We're moving in less than a month (already bought the house and starting to move things in this weekend) and we're tight on money currently. :sad: We already broke our budget for moving with the first vet bill and the scan. I set up a donation page and got 50$ but that's not enough to get anything done.

Any updates on Glitch? How did the vet visit go?

I had to call the vet who seen Glitch and they contacted the vet who would perform the surgery to talk about price estimations and it'll be anywhere from 600-1000$ for the surgery alone, and 400$ for the ultrasound..and another 86$ for an examination at that vet. It's frustrating to pay for a vet and get pretty much nothing out of it other than a scan that determined nothing at all. I'm going to try and figure out if I can get money together and do payments with the vet or else I guess I'll have to put Glitch down. :sad: I really didn't want to give up on him but I can't let him suffer.

Will0W783
04-18-14, 07:21 AM
I'm so sorry Skits. I hope you can work things out, but keep in mind that cancer in snakes is really hard for them to bounce back from, and I'd hate to see you pour months of money into trying to extend his life by a few weeks-months. Like I said earlier, I spent over $600 trying to fix an ETB, only to find out the cancer was too far gone once the vet got inside during the surgery. At that point, I had to pay for the anesthesia and surgery time, plus the euthanasia fees, plus all the prior exams....I'm trying to remember what it all came to, but it was somewhere around $800, and I still lost the snake.

You will need to make the decision that works best for you though. I can definitely understand not wanting to give up on an animal you love, and if I had to do it over again I'd make the same decisions to try as far as my wallet would allow.

You will be in my thoughts.

Terranaut
04-18-14, 10:21 AM
IMHO your doing the right thing. Don't feel bad, you did more than the average Joe already. Glitch was luck you found him.

Kimmie
04-18-14, 11:21 AM
thats a lot of money, both my BF and me work and it would still be hard for us to come up with that :(, I will say don't feel bad you did your best, he is lucky that you found him. If he could express his feelings im sure he would be very happy for the time he was with you.

Skits
04-18-14, 03:12 PM
Thanks everyone for the replies. It's definitely hard at times, and I feel horrible not being able to provide him with everything. I know it's a benign tumor so cancer isn't a problem, if it was, I wouldn't want to try getting it removed as I don't want him feeling pain. I also know benign tumors can turn cancerous though, so a hard decision might have to be made. I called the vet who does the surgeries and doing payments with them is not an option, so I'm going to talk to my original vet on Monday and talk about final options. :hmm:

Zoo Nanny
04-18-14, 04:46 PM
Have you tried contacting the veterinary college in Montreal, they may offer to do the surgery if you donate Glitch to the school. It would give Glitch a chance but at the same time help students learn about snake anatomy and care.

Skits
04-18-14, 06:33 PM
Have you tried contacting the veterinary college in Montreal, they may offer to do the surgery if you donate Glitch to the school. It would give Glitch a chance but at the same time help students learn about snake anatomy and care.

No I haven't tried that, by donating it means to give him up to them? I will look into it if it can give him a chance.

Starbuck
04-18-14, 10:40 PM
i understand that you want to be really aware of your options, but is he not eating or otherwise acting sick? If not, you may still have time to come up and save up some money to deal with whatever decision you need to make.

If you cannot afford the surgery (which is absolutely reasonable given the expense), i would definitely talk to either of the veterinarians about the cost of a necropsy. It may give you some piece of mind, and they may be able to tell you more about the etiology of the tumor. Good luck and i wish you peace of mind with these difficult decisions you have to make :(

Zoo Nanny
04-19-14, 10:20 AM
Yes by donating I mean giving them the snake. Quite often the schools will jump at the chance of being able to perform surgery on an exotic so the students can learn.

Skits
04-19-14, 02:27 PM
I do want to try saving money a bit before doing anything. He doesn't eat well, but that's from previous health problems (mites, stuck shed, scale rot). I'm going to try to feed him again soon and see if he can take it. The other carpet python still hasn't eaten for me either even with proper temps and all that. I feel like the humidity is the issue since they're both on dry paper because of the scale rot.

I'll think about donating Glitch to them. If it can help save his life, I'd do it.


Glitch's tumor removal | Medical Expenses - YouCaring.com (http://www.youcaring.com/medical-fundraiser/glitch-s-tumor-removal/165167)

Terranaut
04-25-14, 10:35 AM
Updates?????

La vie est joie
04-25-14, 09:26 PM
bonne chance

Skits
05-15-14, 01:02 AM
http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/morelia-spilota/105372-good-bye-glitch.html#post918241

La vie est joie
05-15-14, 11:58 PM
Je suis tellement désolé....

LiL Zap
05-19-14, 11:23 AM
Tumors on the kidney are never a good thing (I'm a veterinary technician so I see these types of things alot). Even though I have more experience with dogs and cats on the MEDICAL side of things, I can tell you tumors on vital organs are almost always fatal in the end. If the surgery with your carpet python is a success, it'll only buy it a couple of months or maybe a year. Then again, I'm more experienced with canine and feline vet medicine so take what I say with a grain of salt.

Best wishes to your baby.

EDIT: I just saw your post about Glitch passing. My condolences...had I known he passed already I wouldn't have typed this paragraph up like a dummy.