breeding size/weight??? and time?

[gargoyle]

I've just purchased a pair of corns (sold as 1.1) I'm not that experienced with corns though. I've bred boas and pythons but not colubrids. I don't know the age of these two and am not entirely sure of how to tell the sex's. They are approx 36+ inches long and very healthy. I don't know the weight off hand but will put them on the scale this week. If anyone can help me with these ?'s I would really appreciate it. Also when should I try to breed them (time of year) that is if they are breedable size.

Thanks in advance......
by the way one is carmel motley and one sunglow. not sure which is male and female

[J_Riley]

Well, assuming the female (if you have one 100%) has good weight (ballpark 300+ grams), they sound about old enough to breed.

There's no sure way to tell the sexes without probing, but you can eyeball the tails and if you have one of each gender, you should easily be able to tell - the male's should be longer and more slender for housing the hemi's and the females should be shorter and thicker.

If they've been cooled, anytime in the next month would be the time to introduce them. However, on a few occassions, corns have been know to be cannibilistic, so beware. Their similar size should preclude that, but you can never be sure...

[josefg]

IMO 36" is a little small for corns to breed especially the female. If I was you, I would wait for the next season before trying to breed them as the female may become eggbound (check out <a href="http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9558">http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9558</a>)

If you want to try and sex the corns by looking at the tail, try to compare them to the image below. The image below is the property of Bill & Katey Love at <a href="http://www.corn-utopia.com">Corn-Utopia</a><br><br>http://www.corn-utopia.com/Corn%20Utopia%20on%20the%20Web/Photo%20&%20Image%20Stockpile%20-%20CornUtopia/Sexing%20corns%20collage%20-%20CAPTION.jpg

[vanderkm]

Congrats on the new pair of corns - caramel motleys are very attractive snakes and you are lucky to have one. If they are just 3 feet the female is small to breed though the male might be fine -but as mentioned above, egg binding is a concern for small females and you don't loose much by waiting a year - they should produce a lot for you over their lifetime and it may be better than risking a loss this year (especially if the female is the caramel!)

If they are mature they are quite easy to tell by their tails, as the photos above. The male will have a longer tail that is thicker at the base (just after the anus) when viewed from below or from the side. There may even be a slight bulge on either side just after the anus, while the female's tail is shorter and tapers off quite sharply.

Corns will breed without cooling and people here are putting them together now, although some are still cooling them. If they have been cooled, then the first shed of the female after she comes out of cooling is a good indication that she is due to ovulate and would be receptive to breeding.

Best of luck with these either this year or next. Do you know if they are het for anything to predict what offspring you might expect?

mary v.

[snakemann87]

i also agree with josegf on that they may be too small. A good age for corns is 4 i believe, and id think that they be bigger than that. But, usually during the winter months is good, check the net, there are TONS of corn snake breeding info out there.
www.cornutopia.com

[CornBall]

Well, I think 36 inches for a corn should be the minimum size for breeding a female corn and for a male 18 months old as they do not need to have size to produce viable sperm (a 7 month old male has been recorded to have accidently bred a corn that produced perfectly good eggs, though I do not recommend this at all).
Sizes below are for FEMALE corns
You must also look at locals, such as the Miami cornsnake. Miami's are smaller than normal corns and may never reach 4ft in length, yet are still very able to breed and produce perfectly good offspring. Some people knowing this actually breed Miami's at 34" but I would not recommend it as it is still risky and would wait to be on the safe side. But if your female miami has reached around 34" by the end of the third winter and she has never missed a meal, never regurged, never had any problems, etc, that might be an exception as that may tell you she won't grow up to be a 4footer or a 5-6 for than matter and still be very able to breed.
Also if your corn is 36" long but has a small head for it's body, it means it is just fat and it should not be bred as it is more suseptible to getting eggbound as its internal organs have not yet reached adult size. (some people call these pin head corns)
Also if your corn does look skinny, spine just showing, has problems shedding (I find this happens in corns that are thin for there size), etc should also not be bred as it will loose alot of weight and alot of energy through breeding and may not be able to lay (eggbound).
A corn should reach adult proportions by the end of their second or third winter.

Another thing you could look at is another local corn that no one is quite sure what to think of yet. What this is is that of the Upper Keys corns, they are a very nice snake that have yet to be bred into corns really (that means no one is sure if that makes hybrids or not).
Upper Keys corns I find, and so do many others, find them to be a thinner type of corn. Upper Keys corns tend to have a thinner look, about 2/3 as thick as a regular corn would be, but reach breeding size at 36", I am not quite sure of that, I would wait until they are a little bigger than 36" for an Upper keys corn but that's just my oppinion.

Also if you want to breed, corns tend to each more and more voraciously out of brumation to put on weight for breeding season. Your corn that goes into brumation is just say, below the requirments of size, you feed her up for a month out of brumation and she COULD gain enough size to breed that season as they do this intentially for that purpose.

Another thing, alot of breeders believe in double clutching, but I would not suggest this if your female is breeding for the first time, nor possibly the second time she breeds as it causes alot of stress on her to breed and will be run down after breeding as it does take alot out of her.

A rule of thumb:
males breed 18 months of age even if not 3 feet in length
females minimum 3 feet in length BUT MUST LOOK IN EXCELLENT CONDITION. She could breed after 2nd or 3rd winter if she has met the requirments.

:D

-Ryan
CornBall Reptiles

[gargoyle]

what are the "breeding rituals" with corns. I put mine together today and they're tongue flicking each other like crazy and it looks like they're playing tag, or racing side by side sometimes, my sunglow is twitching when it gets up beside the carmel motley. Is this all normal?

by the way I measured them before I did this and both are just over 48" by a couple of inches. I really underestimated they'r lengths earlier.


:eb:

[gonesnakee]

In response to your last post yes these are breeding signs. If you are serious about pursuing breeding these snakes I would strongly recommend (more like insist upon) spending the time to properly read up on them A.S.A.P. There is more than ample info. on them everywhere throughout the web, moreso than any other type of snake in the world. The only excuse for a lack of knowledge in this case, would be the lack of ambition to learn. Have a look at what is already available to you as presented by experts, rather than waste your time on a forum where you may or may not receive the proper advice from possible novices. This is just my opinion anyway. Mark IsBell - GONE SNAKEE!

P.S. I would also strongly recommend buying Bill & Kathy Love's book "The Cornsnake Manual" it will answer all your questions & then some. M.I.