Heat (and the things I read)

[knox]

I posted this on another forum and wanted to get thoughts here as well...

I see replies in threads constantly that say:

"Anything over 86 degrees F can burn your (Corn, King, Rat) snake."

May I ask why people believe this to be the case?

I just probed my palm and it read 93.6 degrees F. My snakes are perfectly safe in my hand. They don't get "severely burned".

Go outside on a summer evening and point your temp gun at the asphalt, a limb, a rock, a patch of dirt, or any other place snakes are known to go for warmth. It will be quite a bit above 90 or 95 degrees. I probed the asphalt where I came upon a Black Rat resting last year at our local Disc Golf park and it was 104 F.

Now, I do understand that the snake has to have a cool place to which they can retreat when they warm up. But to say anything over 86 F for a warm side? I don't buy that at all.

I would rather have a 90 - 95 degree HOT spot - given the correct size enclosure - and the snake can then choose anywhere along the temperature gradient it desires.

So the question REALLY is, what is the temperature of your COOL side?

Thoughts? Rebuttals?

[Mikoh4792]

Don't know much about corns/rats/kings but my carpet would utilize a 100F hotspot when given a thermal gradient of 80F-100F. I forgot who but their retics would utilize hotspots of over 100f as well, as long as there were places to cool down. So even when given hotspots well over the recommended temps, snakes do seem to use them from time to time. But as you pointed out, they would need to be able to escape the heat.... so it would have to be a pretty large thermal gradient.

[EL Ziggy]

I keep my kings with a hot spot of 90, their cool side is usually in the low-mid 70's.

[pdomensis]

I've seen those posts before too and wondered about them. Is it possibly the difference between heat spot and ambient, ie temp gun vs thermometer?

[knox]

I've seen those posts before too and wondered about them. Is it possibly the difference between heat spot and ambient, ie temp gun vs thermometer?

That's a good question. But I have always read the replies speaking of the heat mat / flexwatt temp. Those don't really raise the ambient temperature much in a large (40 gallon +) enclosure anyway.

[pdomensis]

As always I think the key is providing a large enough space with a range of temps. Snakes in the wild know when it's too hot they need to find cover and go somewhere else. Provide the same opportunity (within reason) in a cage and they'll be good.

[knox]

As always I think the key is providing a large enough space with a range of temps. Snakes in the wild know when it's too hot they need to find cover and go somewhere else. Provide the same opportunity (within reason) in a cage and they'll be good.

My thoughts exactly.

[formica]

the issue is not about the temperature of the hot spot when nothing is sitting on it, the problem comes when a heat mat is used without being set up correctly and without being properly controlled by a thermostat

an uncontrolled, improperly setup heat mat, can reach temperatures far above 94f very easily, if there is something on top of it (such as a snake), that can cause burns with some makes (look up thermal blocking - but this issue does not arise when properly controlled and set up)

the other issue as already pointed out, is that a snake must be able to move to diffrent temperatures as needed, if a corn only has access to 34C/94f, then yes it will kill it.

but no way is a 34C hot spot going to cause burns, that will happen with an improperly setup heat mat, or unprotected heat lamps.


the ambient/substrate temperature is also another big issue as already mentioned, if the thermostat for the heat mat, is maintaining an ambient temp of 34C, then you can be sure that the heat mat is far hotter, and may well be hot enough to cause burns

depending on the make, some will not get much hotter than 40C, which is still too hot for a corn imo, it will have to move on and off the heat mat to maintain its core temp for digestion, which makes digestion inefficient and potentially causes stress to the snake.

[pdomensis]

good post, thanks formica.

[knox]

I agree, Formica. However, the area SURROUNDING the 40 c spot is probably spot on perfect.

[formica]

I agree, Formica. However, the area SURROUNDING the 40 c spot is probably spot on perfect.

with a radiant heat source yes, but not with a heat mat, they dont create a temperature gradient in the same way.

I have never set a basking temp to 40C for any snake, but I know that some snakes will ignore a basking area that is too hot, and as a consequence they are unable to digest their food or maintain physiological functions, serious illness and a protracted death can follow.

Best solution all round? keep basking temperatures within recommended specs, saves you money/energy in the long run too

[knox]

with a radiant heat source yes, but not with a heat mat, they dont create a temperature gradient in the same way.

I have never set a basking temp to 40C for any snake, but I know that some snakes will ignore a basking area that is too hot, and as a consequence they are unable to digest their food or maintain physiological functions, serious illness and a protracted death can follow.

Best solution all round? keep basking temperatures within recommended specs, saves you money/energy in the long run too

Can't argue with that, my friend.

[sharthun]

That's a good question. But I have always read the replies speaking of the heat mat / flexwatt temp. Those don't really raise the ambient temperature much in a large (40 gallon +) enclosure anyway.

This is the reason I switched from heat tape to RHP's. I do agree that the enclosure needs to be large enough to provide thermal gradients. I feel that rhp's provide a more natural heat source and raise the ambient temp of the "hot" side much more efficiently. And I agree that the "hot" side can be higher than 86F given enough space to find cooler areas in the enclosure. So much trial and error in keeping reptiles.