Feeding advice for yellow rat

[poomwah]

Hi guys/gals,
was hoping to get some advice on gettiing my yellow rat to eat.
It's 17 months old but has been fed only pinkies its whole life. It's only 29 grams. I've had it two weeks today.
I left it alone for a week before offering food, it ignored it. Left it alone for another 5 days except for taking it out for a picture. Offered food again, no interest.
I'm being hammered on another forum that its because my setup is wrong.
I have her in an aquarium, with several secure hides. They say she won't eat because the enclosure is too big and that I'm overstressing her by offering food too often. Even someone on this forum has accused me of mauling the snake. Umm. ok. I've given up on that forum because if someone gives me advice, like scenting for instance, someone will jump in there and say NO, its the set up that's the problem, if he fixes the setup it WILL eat.
They want me to put her in a smaller enclosure then wait another week.
I don't like that idea since I've already had the snake 2 weeks, its insanely small for its age, and I don't like the idea of it going any longer than it has to.
So, we've already established on this forum that the enclosure size is irrelevant.
Here's what I've done, on two different occasions. Offer ft pinkie by dangling from tongs. Didn't seem to care. Briefly heated the pink by dipping it in a jar of hot water. No difference. the, deli cup overnight in a dark quiet room.
Both times she refused to eat, in the morning she was curled up inside the lid of the cup.
I'm NOT moving her into another enclosure because I honestly don't believe that has anything to do with it. She's not showing any signs of stress, just lack of interest.
What would you guys do next and how long would you wait to do it?

[EL Ziggy]

Poom, I wouldn't worry just yet. Two weeks isn't a long time for a snake to not eat. It sounds like you're on the right track. If you've covered her tank and left her overnight with the pinky twice to no avail, you could try scenting the prey item. I know some people use chicken broth or lizards (if you can find them). If that doesn't work you may have to try a live feeder just to kick start her appetite. I would offer food every 7 days until she eats.

[Tsubaki]

Water from canned tuna always did the trick with my hog babies, not sure if it would benefit a yellow rat but can't hurt to try..

[Starbuck]

Can you post a picture of the enclosure? Several people here have advised that you increase the cover substantially. I like to use macaroni boxes and cardboard egg crates for small snakes.
tuna water can encourage feeding, as can live pinks. Feed at dusk, and then make sure no one enters that room until the next morning

[Terranaut]

If you could, post a pic of the entire enclosure or a few different angles. Tell us how you heat it and what the temps are. How you measure the temps. Also when you say dipped in hot water. Do you mean just for a few seconds? You should fully thaw the prey and then put in in the hottest tap water you have for at least a minute or 2. Let it stand another min and pat it dry. Set it on the cage floor in front of the snake and leave the room immediately. Come back in an hour. If it's still there leave it overnight. You could also cover the viv with a sheet. Good luck.

[KORBIN5895]

Hi guys/gals,
was hoping to get some advice on gettiing my yellow rat to eat.
It's 17 months old but has been fed only pinkies its whole life. It's only 29 grams. I've had it two weeks today.
I left it alone for a week before offering food, it ignored it. Left it alone for another 5 days except for taking it out for a picture. Offered food again, no interest.
I'm being hammered on another forum that its because my setup is wrong.
I have her in an aquarium, with several secure hides. They say she won't eat because the enclosure is too big and that I'm overstressing her by offering food too often. Even someone on this forum has accused me of mauling the snake. Umm. ok. I've given up on that forum because if someone gives me advice, like scenting for instance, someone will jump in there and say NO, its the set up that's the problem, if he fixes the setup it WILL eat.
They want me to put her in a smaller enclosure then wait another week.
I don't like that idea since I've already had the snake 2 weeks, its insanely small for its age, and I don't like the idea of it going any longer than it has to.
So, we've already established on this forum that the enclosure size is irrelevant.
Here's what I've done, on two different occasions. Offer ft pinkie by dangling from tongs. Didn't seem to care. Briefly heated the pink by dipping it in a jar of hot water. No difference. the, deli cup overnight in a dark quiet room.
Both times she refused to eat, in the morning she was curled up inside the lid of the cup.
I'm NOT moving her into another enclosure because I honestly don't believe that has anything to do with it. She's not showing any signs of stress, just lack of interest.
What would you guys do next and how long would you wait to do it?
Could you quote whoever accused you of mauling the snake? Who ever would do that is a complete jerk.

[Mikoh4792]

Hi guys/gals,
was hoping to get some advice on gettiing my yellow rat to eat.
It's 17 months old but has been fed only pinkies its whole life. It's only 29 grams. I've had it two weeks today.
I left it alone for a week before offering food, it ignored it. Left it alone for another 5 days except for taking it out for a picture. Offered food again, no interest.
I'm being hammered on another forum that its because my setup is wrong.
I have her in an aquarium, with several secure hides. They say she won't eat because the enclosure is too big and that I'm overstressing her by offering food too often. Even someone on this forum has accused me of mauling the snake. Umm. ok. I've given up on that forum because if someone gives me advice, like scenting for instance, someone will jump in there and say NO, its the set up that's the problem, if he fixes the setup it WILL eat.
They want me to put her in a smaller enclosure then wait another week.
I don't like that idea since I've already had the snake 2 weeks, its insanely small for its age, and I don't like the idea of it going any longer than it has to.
So, we've already established on this forum that the enclosure size is irrelevant.
Here's what I've done, on two different occasions. Offer ft pinkie by dangling from tongs. Didn't seem to care. Briefly heated the pink by dipping it in a jar of hot water. No difference. the, deli cup overnight in a dark quiet room.
Both times she refused to eat, in the morning she was curled up inside the lid of the cup.
I'm NOT moving her into another enclosure because I honestly don't believe that has anything to do with it. She's not showing any signs of stress, just lack of interest.
What would you guys do next and how long would you wait to do it?

It's not the size of the enclosure...that is for sure. Snakes get stressed out from lack of security, not abundant space. So as Terranaut said, it would help to post pics.

I do agree you should wait longer inbetween feeding attempts, sometimes trying to feed too often will stress them out.

If there's nothing inherently wrong with the snake(parasites, disease, injury...etc) then I would have to guess that the snake is either insecure from lack of cover, or the thermal gradient is not proper.

Do you handle the snake?

[poomwah]

thanks everyone except korbin for trying to help. I'm trying to get pics of the enclosure but I don't want to use the flash, and without it, the pics aren't showing much of anything.
The snake has been handled minimally, and by that I mean, it was handled when transfered to its enclosure and one other time long enough for a picture to be taken.
Ironically, Korbin , the one who demanded all kinds of proof, also feels the need to accuse me of mauling the snake because I handled the snake to get some of the proof he demanded. So Korbin, if you are not going to be helpful like everyone else is trying to be, please stay out of it.
The temperature fluctuates depending on the weather, 71-73 on the cool end, 82-84 on the warm end. I'm using flexwatt on a rheostat. For instrumentation I usually use a laser thermometer, but since reaching in there to measure temps might scare her, i have two digitals with probes. For hides I have a mixture of terra cotta pieces, slightly curved bark, pieces of cardboard, the floor of the enclosure is littered with them. Three sides of the glass are covered.
Thanks for the heads up guys, I never would have guessed that offering food after five days was soon enough to cause stress. Especially since she doesn't show any signs of it. She actually acts hungry which leads me to wonder if its less a stress issue, and more of her not recognizing the rodent as a prey item.
Zig, normally I wouldn't worry about missing two feedings. I've had some snakes in the past that had appetites that changed as much as the weather.
But since this one is really small for its age, and it hasn't eaten for me yet, and someone I really trust thinks it might be wild caught, the lack of feeding is more of a concern for me than usual.
Thanks again guys.

[Aaron_S]

Your snake is already stressed if it isn't eating.

I have had wild caught snakes shipped from the US up to Canada eat within 24 hours.

It is due to a couple reasons I see. You're using deli cup tricks already and that's just not needed.

You're inexperienced, and that's okay but it's hurting your situation right now. I know this because you're worried about an undersized snake but otherwise healthy snake not eating. IT WILL BE FINE not eating for a few weeks. Yes, even a few more than it already has. Small for age has nothing to do with it's overall health and ability to go without food. Stop saying it, please.

You haven't attempted live yet so go do that. Attempt to feed the snake once every five days. No handling. No tricks. Just the same prey type every 5 days. Don't worry about substrate ingestion or anything. Just leave a live pinky in there. Once every 5 days.

[poomwah]

Why is it if you are so experienced that stress is the only reason you can see for a snake not eating? With your vast experience, I guess you've eliminated the possibility that the animal might just not be interested in rodents. Perhaps that's why the people above recommended scenting.
This snake is so stressed out that when I walked in the room to try to take pictures of the enclosure, the snake was crawling around on TOP of the hides. He's so stressed out that if I change the water, the snake approaches to see what it is. So stressed out that instead of retreating from the attempt to tease feed, he approaches, but shows as much interest in the tongs themselves as it does in the pinky.
Why is it that it all comes down to my inexperience. Because you are an "expert".
I've dealt with wild caught snakes as well. I've dealt with stressed snakes too. I've had some that ate right away, I've had some that took several months.
This snake is not showing any signs of stress, its showing signs of being hungry, but it is showing no interest in the food.
MY EXPERIENCE tells me that the snake is not stressed but is not recognizing the prey item as a food source.
The reason I keep mentioning the snakes size for age is that is shows the snake has not been fed much. Not a sign of its health BUT a VERY possible sign of how the snakes appetite or POSSIBLY a history of having a reluctance to feed. Am I worried about the snake starving for missing a couple meals , absolutely not. Am I worried that the snake is going to have problems if it doesn't eat because its small, again absolutely not. My concern is, IF it is a wild caught animal, IF it doesn't recognize rodents as a prey item, then its something I want to get on top of NOW instead of later. THAT is why the size of the snake for its age has bearing here. Live with it. Instead of asking me to please stop saying something I didn't say, please read what I actually did say. I never said the snakes health had anything do to with its size for its age. For you, and anyone else who has been refusing to listen : The snake being so small for its age shows a POSSIBLE trend, it is VERY possible that it could be a problem feeder for any number of reasons. EXPERIENCE tells me this. And EXPERIENCE tells me not to ignore it and to be ready for the possibility.
So other people are suggesting that I try other things BEFORE trying live, so why don't you go tell them they are inexperienced as well. How about two other people said wait a week, one said I'm stressing the snake out by over offering food, because I offered the snake food 5 days after the first attempt. You say offer 5 days, like I've been doing. So that makes them inexperienced too right?
Deli cups not necessary, maybe , maybe not. But, in my experience, when I've had snakes that acted hungry, but showed no interest in food, deli cupping has worked.
No tricks? like deli cupping, that often works. or scenting like has been suggested above, but you don't accuse them of being inexperienced. Don't worry about substrate ingestion, listening to that comment alone would prove lack of experience. I am fully aware of the danger of ingesting substrate and it would be absolutely foolish to say otherwise.

[Terranaut]

Well I have to say I can totally see how anyone here would think your inexperienced. You have started many threads asking about this one snake. The nature of the questions asked would lead any experienced keep to believe you are not. Please do not be insulted, everyone is trying to help. I also thought the mauling statement was out of line but lets move on. Something is not right and we want to help you find it. Lets stick to facts and get this snake eating. Please list the info I asked for in my last post. Experienced keepers will always start with the basics and rule out all of the normal issues before moving on the improbable.

[poomwah]

Terranaut, everyone is not trying to help, korbin is definitely not trying to help and is not "keeping it real"
Aaron is not trying to help, he has a narrow minded, myopic view that goes against what many people have suggested. You tell me how he KNOWS that the reason the snake is not eating is stress. Tell me how he KNOWS that the snake IS stressed. He doesn't.
I appreciate that many of you want to help find out what's wrong. That is clearly not the case with Aaron because he has already decided what the problem is and that's the end of the story.
Sticking to the facts ... I listed the info you asked for.
The set up is NOT the issue.... how do I know....
the snake is showing NO signs of stress, the snake is acting hungry and seems to be looking for food. When the food is offered, the snake shows no interest, it does not try to retreat, it does not go into a defensive posture, it does the same thing it does to anything else in the enclosure, it investigates it, then it goes on about it's business.
You yourself even point out experienced keepers start with the basics and rule out all of the normal issues before moving to the improbable.
I have already done that. Enclosure offers plenty of secure hiding areas, offers a temperature gradient of appropriate temperatures, snake has been left alone. Snake ignores food. Since I'm so inexperienced, explain to me how the concept that the snake isn't interested in the rodents is improbable? Explain how suspecting the specimen is wild caught is improbable.
Explain to me how experienced breeders and keepers have suggested the snake is probably wild caught and needs scented prey to switch it over to rodents. Explain why experienced keepers have said there's nothing wrong with my set up.
On second thought, screw it. This isn't worth the headache.
Thanks for those who genuinely did try to help. Piss on the rest of you.

ps. thank you to the people who sent me the PM's telling me to try not to be bothered by the narrow minded, judgmental idiots. Sorry I didn't have the tolerance to do so

[KORBIN5895]

Why are you asking questions if you already have the answers? Why are you ignoring ll of those who disagree with your preconceived ideas and answers? Oh that's right you vast experience and anonymous friends who keep sending you all of these PM's.....

For the record you yourself claim you aren't capable of picking such a small snake up. I would like to know exactly how you got it into the feeding container, the deli cup, the big you took a picture of it in so you could compare snake sizes (which also makes me question your quarantine practices) and your hand yesterday if you aren't picking it up? You also claim your children are afraid to hold it because it's too feisty..... How do you know it's feisty if you aren't handling it?

I have no desire to help anyone that thinks they have all of the answers nor will I help someone whose story so obviously shows them to seem less than honest.

[KORBIN5895]

I actually came up with that impression without reading past page 11 on the boi because that was where it had stopped yesterday. You seem very inexperienced, you are giving off the impression that you are mauling the poor thing and your behaviour in the boi thread seems petty and immature. You have played every card in the refund demand arsenal.

This is where the mauling thing you are so hung up on and hurt over came from. I said you are giving off the impression. I didn't say you were mauling it. There is a difference.

[poomwah]

Why are you asking questions if you already have the answers? Why are you ignoring ll of those who disagree with your preconceived ideas and answers? Oh that's right you vast experience and anonymous friends who keep sending you all of these PM's.....

For the record you yourself claim you aren't capable of picking such a small snake up. I would like to know exactly how you got it into the feeding container, the deli cup, the big you took a picture of it in so you could compare snake sizes (which also makes me question your quarantine practices) and your hand yesterday if you aren't picking it up? You also claim your children are afraid to hold it because it's too feisty..... How do you know it's feisty if you aren't handling it?

I have no desire to help anyone that thinks they have all of the answers nor will I help someone whose story so obviously shows them to seem less than honest.

here's a perfect example, people who only read bits and pieces and just don't get it. THis is why my 12 year old daughter even thinks you are an idiot.
If you'd take the time to read and comprehend, you'd realize I didn't say I can't pick up a snake that size, I said COMFORTABLY and safely. And use your imagination genious, put the cup or tub on its side and guide the snake into it.
And you do realize that that when you buy a container of a certain size, you can buy more than one of them. So you can have one for each snake. You knew you could do that right? So there you go, instead of accepting that possibility you'd rather attack my quarantining.
How did they know it was feisty? Because it was trying to bite as soon as I took the lid of the container out of the box. again, you take what you want from something and twist it into something that fits the way you want it to.
I didn't have the answers, I didn't think the size of the enclosure mattered, BUT, I asked to make sure. Guess what, the general consensus is that it didnt.
Several people tried to help, as usual you just tried to cause trouble.

[poomwah]

This is where the mauling thing you are so hung up on and hurt over came from. I said you are giving off the impression. I didn't say you were mauling it. There is a difference.

ok, instead of being passive agressive about it, do you think I'm mauling the snake? if you do, then come right out and say it instead of pointing out I'm giving the impression. If you dont' think I am , say you don't.
If you don't know one way or the other, ASK.

[KORBIN5895]

ok, instead of being passive agressive about it, do you think I'm mauling the snake? if you do, then come right out and say It instead of pointing out I'm giving the impression. If you dont' think I am , say you don't.
If you don't know one way or the other, ASK.

I am far from passive aggressive. I told you that you are giving that impressionk. Your story doesn't seem to support you leaving it alone. What I believe is that you are handling it and bothering it Way more than you think you are.

[KORBIN5895]

here's a perfect example, people who only read bits and pieces and just don't get it. THis is why my 12 year old daughter even thinks you are an idiot.
If you'd take the time to read and comprehend, you'd realize I didn't say I can't pick up a snake that size, I said COMFORTABLY and safely. And use your imagination genious, put the cup or tub on its side and guide the snake into it.
And you do realize that that when you buy a container of a certain size, you can buy more than one of them. So you can have one for each snake. You knew you could do that right? So there you go, instead of accepting that possibility you'd rather attack my quarantining.
How did they know it was feisty? Because it was trying to bite as soon as I took the lid of the container out of the box. again, you take what you want from something and twist it into something that fits the way you want it to.
I didn't have the answers, I didn't think the size of the enclosure mattered, BUT, I asked to make sure. Guess what, the general consensus is that it didnt.
Several people tried to help, as usual you just tried to cause trouble.

Hmmmmmm. So you put containers inside the enclosure and agitate it to climb into it? You have a picture holding it because someone demanded proof? Well I can safely say that there are three times you stressed the snake out in the two weeks you owned it. But hey at least you didn't actually pick it up two of those times... No.... Instead you goaded it into whatever container you were trying to get it in.

[Mikoh4792]

What's done is done.

Just try to give your snake more cover, make sure temp gradient is proper, leave it alone for a week and try feeding again.

Also that pic of the enclosure will come in handy as well. It will be easier to help if we can get a visual of what the setup looks like.

[poomwah]

thank you Korbin,
I appreciate the laugh, you are indeed a riot.
agitate the snake to climb into it, goaded it into the container. Again, a narrow minded view point where you can't accept that the snake could be gently guided into the container. But you question how I pick it up.
You think I am handling the snake and stressing it out more than I think I am. Funny thing, I'm here, I know what's actually going on here because, well.... I'm here, not in your world of speculation.
Mikoh, I'm sorry, what's done is not done because this type of idiocy keeps coming up. No matter how many times I say the snake is not stressed, someone says, you are stressing the snake out. People will keep doing the inane nonsense that Korbin is doing, taking bits and pieces to make their argument, as an example, I say I can't comfortably handle a snake that size, it guest turned into I supposedly said that I can't pick up a snake that size. The comfortably makes a lot of difference in that statement, but it gets left out to add to the arguement.
Korbin and whatever his damage is practically demands proof, then chastises me for bothering the snake in order to provide the proof.
I appreciate you trying to keep the peace Mikoh, please don't take this the wrong way, but if I'm supposed to keep the snake in a dark room and leave it alone, how do I take a picture? I'm not trying to be difficult on that one, and I'm sorry that it probably seems like I am. But I'm really not sure how to do that without disturbing the snake. Which I honestly don't think is an issue here, and I'm actually about ready to prove it.

[Mikoh4792]

You don't need to keep it in a dark room, you just need to provide cover that is dark and tight. And covering the sides of the enclosure will help as well, the room it is in can be bright as day.

Some people say not to compare captive snakes to wild snakes, but sometimes it's reasonable. The environment for wild ratsnakes are bright and sunny in the day, and if they are not out moving, they will be hiding in a dark space. Try to recreate it that by giving it dark places to hide, regardless of the ambient light during the day.

[poomwah]

You don't need to keep it in a dark room, you just need to provide cover that is dark and tight. And covering the sides of the enclosure will help as well, the room it is in can be bright as day.

Some people say not to compare captive snakes to wild snakes, but sometimes it's reasonable. The environment for wild ratsnakes are bright and sunny in the day, and if they are not out moving, they will be hiding in a dark space. Try to recreate it that by giving it dark places to hide, regardless of the ambient light during the day.

gotcha, sorry, I had so many people tell me the snake needs to be in a dark room that I thought that's what you meant. And now Korbin with his crap has got me so paranoid that I use the flash on my camera I'm going to get accused of stressing the snake out.

And I'm sorry if noone is going to convince me that the snake is not eating because it's stressed. Mikoh, regardless of what a few people have been saying about my lack of experience, this isn't my first goat f&*k. I've dealt with a lot of snakes before, this snake does not act like she's stressed, she acts like she's hungry. I've seen this before , trying to get WC kings and garters to eat mice.
When I first started this thread it was to make sure I have all my bases covered. And I'm confident now that I do. I'm also 100 percent confident that this snake is not stressed out.

[Terranaut]

Well I tried :(
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j9/terranaut0/tumblr_ly2toleFWz1rn0qyoo1_250_zps060a6225.gif (http://s76.photobucket.com/user/terranaut0/media/tumblr_ly2toleFWz1rn0qyoo1_250_zps060a6225.gif.htm l)

What you do with goats is none of my business.

[Mikoh4792]

Well I tried :(
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j9/terranaut0/tumblr_ly2toleFWz1rn0qyoo1_250_zps060a6225.gif (http://s76.photobucket.com/user/terranaut0/media/tumblr_ly2toleFWz1rn0qyoo1_250_zps060a6225.gif.htm l)

What you do with goats is none of my business.

LOL

I love goats, but not in that way.

[poomwah]

terranaut, why are you banging your head? are you saying I'm wrong? Do you insist that the snake is not eating because it's stressed? do you not concede that it is possible that I might be able to tell if the snake is showing signs of being stressed and that it might just be that its not associating the offered prey as food?

[Mikoh4792]

terranaut, why are you banging your head? are you saying I'm wrong? Do you insist that the snake is not eating because it's stressed? do you not concede that it is possible that I might be able to tell if the snake is showing signs of being stressed and that it might just be that its not associating the offered prey as food?

I think he's makng a joke in reference to your statement about doing goats.

[poomwah]

ahh, I thought that went with his "I tried" as in banging against his head against the wall because I won't listen.
If that's the case, I will listen when someone can tell me how they KNOW that I'm wrong.

[Terranaut]

Nobody said you were wrong. Everyone said what they thought might be a possibility. Most offered a plausible solution based on tough feeders they have delt with. You don't seem to be interested in any other approach other than one involving alternative food. If you feel that way do it. Try other options and if it works , please share your new found knowledge with us. But the ideas mentioned are what have worked for others already. They took the time to write all that out and your stuck on one possible solution. To top it off the snake you have is typically a garbage can so fixing this should not be an issue....if you give the ideas a chance, put up with stuff you may not want to hear, be open minded and and trust that the collective knowledge of this site is why you are here. The two guys your chirping with on here have a lot of experience and may come off a little harsh, they know what they are talking about.
Bury this issue and try to listen to criticism wether it is nicely put or not something you wanted to hear.
Lastly I asked for you to repost pics and info so it was here, in our face to compare. Stress is such a wide term for herps. It means "something not right" and not human type stress. Something is wrong. We will be happy to donate our time and knowledge for free. So maybe just try to listen and when we need help we will listen to you.
It's a community.

[Aaron_S]

It's always the snake's fault...

I am fine with you not believing me. It doesn't hurt my credibility or my animals so I'm okay with that.

I leave good advice out there for the taking. If it doesn't get taken, oh well, someone will.

[poomwah]

Terranaut, why doesn't it seem to matter WHY I'm not interested in other advice. I know how snakes act when they are stressed, this snake is not doing that. I know what snakes act like when they are hungry. this snake is doing that. The snake is clearly out looking for food.
So, why is the setup automatically the most plausible solution. None of my other snakes have a problem with their enclosures.
Why is the food source such an inplausible idea. I'm truly trying to undestand why that's such an unlikely possibility.
Andy why is it, if Zig and Starbuck suggested scenting, but somehow you and aaron still think its not plausible.
My "newfound" knowledge. That's funny, that right there shows that you don't believe that the snake will feed without following YOUR guidlines.
I'm so confident that the snake is NOT stressed that I just handled the snake as best as I can. Yes Korbin, live with it. To top it off, the snake is now in a glass 55 gallon aquarium in the living room. That's how confident I am that its not a stress issue.

[Aaron_S]

Terranaut, why doesn't it seem to matter WHY I'm not interested in other advice. I know how snakes act when they are stressed, this snake is not doing that. I know what snakes act like when they are hungry. this snake is doing that. The snake is clearly out looking for food.
So, why is the setup automatically the most plausible solution. None of my other snakes have a problem with their enclosures.
Why is the food source such an inplausible idea. I'm truly trying to undestand why that's such an unlikely possibility.
Andy why is it, if Zig and Starbuck suggested scenting, but somehow you and aaron still think its not plausible.
My "newfound" knowledge. That's funny, that right there shows that you don't believe that the snake will feed without following YOUR guidlines.
I'm so confident that the snake is NOT stressed that I just handled the snake as best as I can. Yes Korbin, live with it. To top it off, the snake is now in a glass 55 gallon aquarium in the living room. That's how confident I am that its not a stress issue.

Look, Dan and I both get it. Korbin does too.

You came looking for opinions to validate your own. That's fine. No reason to argue with us.

We'll lay out our advice. I am confident in my knowledge to put it out there for other's who may need it and who will read this and take it.

It's no problem for me if you don't take it.

[Terranaut]

Now that is just stupid. I clearly wrote for you to try your idea, get alternative prey and if it works tell us about it so we cannlearn from your experience. I thought you just took some of the advice the wrong way but no. You clearly know everything other than how to interact with other people. Maybe "the other" web site you spoke so negatively about was trying to help to and YOU are the problem. You obviously don't need either site with your vast knowledge. Good luck with your goat !!

[Mikoh4792]

How do you feed the prey item? Do you thaw it out to room temp? Or do you let it warm up in water?

I've noticed my jungle carpet female takes food a lot better when it's warmed up...and her feeding response is stronger at night.

edit: What do you use to read temps? What heat source are you using?

[Aaron_S]

How do you feed the prey item? Do you thaw it out to room temp? Or do you let it warm up in water?

I've noticed my jungle carpet female takes food a lot better when it's warmed up...and her feeding response is stronger at night.

edit: What do you use to read temps? What heat source are you using?

I would like to point out that pythons have heat pits. I do not believe colubrids do as well.

I haven't checked their face in awhile since I don't own any...correct me if I'm wrong?

[Mikoh4792]

I would like to point out that pythons have heat pits. I do not believe colubrids do as well.

I haven't checked their face in awhile since I don't own any...correct me if I'm wrong?

Ah slipped my mind! Thanks for correcting me.

If you want to know for sure, you can always look at pics online. Here is a face pic from google images.

http://www.flmnh.ufl.edu/herpetology/fl-guide/images/280x195xpanthe_alleghaniensis08.jpg.pagespeed.ic.Y WE7V02rzp.jpgp

[poomwah]

Aaron and Terra,
My problem is the way I can't deal with the nonsense. You both pushed your ways as the right way, not as suggestions or ideas, or even opinions. I even asked about Starbucks and Ziggy's opinions and what was wrong with their ideas. But it was all about the set up.
I don't know everything, I don't claim to, and I'm sorry that you think I do because I am looking at the snake and question and I know its not stressed. As I told you, I checked all the basics, I eliminated the setup as the problem. So, from there, if you really wanted to help, you would have offered suggestions to proceed, not stubbornly stuck with it being a set up problem.

Mikoh, This may not matter anymore but I want to be polite and answer your questions.
I usually thaw the prey in warm water. For some snakes I use hot water. Never actually measured the prey temp, just use hot water out of the tap. Then Let the prey item sit for about a minute.
If you mean enclosure temps, I usually use a laser thermometer, but for quarantine on new guys I use a pair of digitals from walmart with a probe on each. If I have a snake that's not particularly "climby" I mount one of the thermometers on the rear wall inside the enclosure. They have dual displays so at any time I can see warm end, cool end, ambient temp in the middle of the enclosure and room temp. Heat source is flexwatt on a rheostat.
The reason I think that it may not matter anymore is because she just ate :]
thank you for your concern and interest, I really appreciate it Mikoh.
thank you Aaron and Terra for trying to help, thank you Zig and Starbuck for the advice.

ps, Aaron, good call, I didn't think rats had any sensory pits, I just looked on George, I can't find any

[infernalis]

So, why is the setup automatically the most plausible solution. None of my other snakes have a problem with their enclosures.
Why is the food source such an inplausible idea. I'm truly trying to undestand why that's such an unlikely possibility.
Andy why is it, if Zig and Starbuck suggested scenting, but somehow you and aaron still think its not plausible.
My "newfound" knowledge. That's funny, that right there shows that you don't believe that the snake will feed without following YOUR guidlines.
I'm so confident that the snake is NOT stressed that I just handled the snake as best as I can. Yes Korbin, live with it. To top it off, the snake is now in a glass 55 gallon aquarium in the living room. That's how confident I am that its not a stress issue.


Handling, glass, high traffic area and yet you are unwilling to consider stress is a factor at all.

Wow...

[poomwah]

Handling, glass, high traffic area and yet you are unwilling to consider stress is a factor at all.

Wow...

here we go again. All of my snakes are in glass in the living room

[EL Ziggy]

All that matters is she's eating now. Let's see if we can duplicate that success in a few days! Best wishes.

[philbyi-guy]

Poomwah, regardless of prior experiences with the people commenting, you have to realize that they are trying to help. Yes they could do without the jokes, but everyone on this forum is trying to teach, learn, and have fun. You have at your disposal a huge wealth of knowledge from these people, and if I were you, I'd take it. People have given you plenty of ideas, so please consider each. I'm not lashing out at you, I'm trying to clean up the mess that this thread has become, so please do not label me as a person you will no longer listen to. That said, I would say wait a week, then try again. Do not do anything around the enclosure, don't handle the snake. Just check that he has water quietly once every couple days, and wait. If he doesn't eat, ask again.
Edit: people posted while I was typing. Please move him out of the living room, at least until he is settled in. He's been through alot, and you shouldn't just say "Oh well all my other snakes are fine, so it must be ok."

[poomwah]

philyi,
thank you for not just posting, but the way you posted it, it was very well said.
i appreciate that people were offering advice. What I didn't appreciate is that once I eliminated certain issues, they would'nt accept that and still insisted it was what they said it was, even though I assured them the setup issues were not a problem. It didn't matter what I said. That's what I had the problem with.
The snake has no problem with the enclosure, and no problem with the traffic. I have proven this. Ziggy and Starbuck were right.
and while I appreciate your advice, please don't be offended that I do not wish to wait that long, she already spends a lot of time exploring, as though she's looking for food. I don't want to make her wait that long.
As far as the snake being in the living room, she is ok in the living room, she's not acting nervous or trying to hide.

[CosmicOwl]

I would like to point out that pythons have heat pits. I do not believe colubrids do as well.

I haven't checked their face in awhile since I don't own any...correct me if I'm wrong?

My animals usually give their food a flick or two with their tongue before eating it. I assume that their tongue is capable of sensing temperature in the same way that human's tongue is. And for the sake of argument, my gray rat snake does seem to prefer his food to be warm, rather than simply thawed and room temp. The corns don't care.

[Aaron_S]

Ah slipped my mind! Thanks for correcting me.

If you want to know for sure, you can always look at pics online. Here is a face pic from google images.

http://www.flmnh.ufl.edu/herpetology/fl-guide/images/280x195xpanthe_alleghaniensis08.jpg.pagespeed.ic.Y WE7V02rzp.jpgp

Thanks. I would say heating it up could work that it might bring out the scent more...no clue if that's any kind of scientific reason or just random thoughts.

Literally too lazy to check for google :D It never really occured to me either.

[Mikoh4792]

Thanks. I would say heating it up could work that it might bring out the scent more...no clue if that's any kind of scientific reason or just random thoughts.

I've always been under that assumption... but who knows lol.

[philbyi-guy]

What is the harm in taking it out of the living room? Because it is not eating and the fact that you are handling it so soon I have little doubt that it is stressed, and I would suggest trying the suggestions that have been posted. If it doesn't work you can at least shut up the people that you are trying so hard to prove wrong. If you want them to listen, provide tangible proof. I'm sorry if it appears as though I am still fixating on one issue, but I do not feel it is being investigated enough. If you disagree, like I said, prove the others wrong. Do what they said and see what happens. I can promise you there is nothing wrong with that.

[poomwah]

Thanks. I would say heating it up could work that it might bring out the scent more...no clue if that's any kind of scientific reason or just random thoughts.

Literally too lazy to check for google :D It never really occured to me either.

It does make sense though, like a very small version of how dinner smells stronger when its cooking.

I've got a pine that likes warm water thawed, a bull snake that ironically likes to let them sit for a while, one corn that likes them warm, one that doesn't care, and a rat that would eat while I was holding him.

[poomwah]

What is the harm in taking it out of the living room? Because it is not eating and the fact that you are handling it so soon I have little doubt that it is stressed, and I would suggest trying the suggestions that have been posted. If it doesn't work you can at least shut up the people that you are trying so hard to prove wrong. If you want them to listen, provide tangible proof. I'm sorry if it appears as though I am still fixating on one issue, but I do not feel it is being investigated enough. If you disagree, like I said, prove the others wrong. Do what they said and see what happens. I can promise you there is nothing wrong with that.

Handling it so soon ? Aaron says you can feed them 48 hours after shipping.
It's not going to hurt anything other than moving her to another tank which I just don't want to do when there's no reason for it, and I'm not handling her because she ate recently.

[Aaron_S]

Handling it so soon ? Aaron says you can feed them 48 hours after shipping.
It's not going to hurt anything other than moving her to another tank which I just don't want to do when there's no reason for it, and I'm not handling her because she ate recently.

Incorrect.

I feed snakes within 24 hours of recieving them. A properly set up snake eats when offered.

I am talking all species but ball pythons in particular who are notorious for not eating.

[poomwah]

so that's an absolute rule? a properly set up snake eats when offered. PERIOD?

[Terranaut]

so that's an absolute rule? a properly set up snake eats when offered. PERIOD?

Maybe when putting words in peoples mouths you should put your own advice in there so you can here what you want to.
http://cdn.meme.li/instances/300x300/27954648.jpg

[Mikoh4792]

I will often feed a snake the day it arrives, but I try to refrain from handling unless I need to(change dirtied newspaper substrate).

This is just an assumption.... but I'm guessing if you handle a new snake and cause it to "flee" there is a higher risk of it refusing a meal.

[poomwah]

how am I putting words in anyone's mouth. I asked if it was an absolute rule and quoted what he said so he knew what part I was talking about.
His words "a properly set up snake eats when offered"
I'm asking if that's an absolute rule.

[poomwah]

I will often feed a snake the day it arrives, but I try to refrain from handling unless I need to(change dirtied newspaper substrate).

This is just an assumption.... but I'm guessing if you handle a new snake and cause it to "flee" there is a higher risk of it refusing a meal.

that sounds reasonable. I was just going by how may people say leave a snake alone for a week before offering it food

[Aaron_S]

A general rule in my life is that there is no absolute rule.

However, a properly set up and healthy snake should be eating, no questions asked.

For perspective, I have done this with dozens and dozens of snakes. Wild caughts and captives. As Mikoh, I have no problem attempting to feed in the same day they arrive. Nothing says "settled in and stress free" like an eating snake.

[poomwah]

and terra, you can be as childish as you want with your pictures, I got the snake to eat didn't I? Yup, you're right, I don't know ANYTHING.

[poomwah]

A general rule in my life is that there is no absolute rule.

However, a properly set up and healthy snake should be eating, no questions asked.

For perspective, I have done this with dozens and dozens of snakes. Wild caughts and captives. As Mikoh, I have no problem attempting to feed in the same day they arrive. Nothing says "settled in and stress free" like an eating snake.

Well put, and I totally agree. Generally, a properly setup snake will eat when offered. But more specifically it was not a settling in or a stress related issue or a setup issue, it was a prey issue. That should be obvious now.
Not to mention, since a properly set up snake will eat when offered, does that not mean that my setup is proper?

[Mikoh4792]

DCX3ZNDZAwY

[poomwah]

DCX3ZNDZAwY

I'll be nice if Yoko will
just because he's mad I'm right doesn't mean he has to drag Gene Wilder into this :P

[poomwah]

and just for the record, although I could appreciate their music, I was never much of a fan for the Beatles as a whole, but always loved John Lennons part in it

[Terranaut]

What ...are you 10 yrs old? Please show us a nice lump in this small snake. Post it.. I'm mad because you came here asking our advice and then told us we were pushy and not listening when we did.
Like I said ...good luck with your goat.

[poomwah]

you were pushy, you wouldn't acknowledge that the fact that the snake might be wild caught was a valid reason to suspect that the issue might be prey related.
You couldn't accept that for some reason. I verified my temps were right, verified I had plenty of hides.
Tried to tell you the snake was acting hungry and looking for food.
The ONLY possibility you would accept is that the set up was wrong. You would give no leeway toward any other possibility.
Then , when you are wrong, you accuse me of lying and post pictures trying to make fun of my knowledge.
Take it easy Yoko, it will be ok

[Mikoh4792]

I know you've already solved the problem of getting your snake to eat, but could you post pics of the enclosure anyways? I'm just curious of how it looks.

[Terranaut]

Well you don't seem to know much about conversation.
I ASKED about your set up and TOLD you to try your idea. Then you axted like I was some overbearing snake monger. Feel free to post a pic of the fed snake.

[poomwah]

sure Mikoh, but I'm not taking the snake out for a picture like the expert wants me to do. Even someone "inexperienced" as I do knows not to handle the snake right after it ate.
Nice one Terra, imagine if I WAS as inexperienced as you say I am, and I listened to your taunting and got the snake out to prove to you that she ate. Then, I could also send you a picture when she regurged. Nice.

[poomwah]

Well you don't seem to know much about conversation.
I ASKED about your set up and TOLD you to try your idea. Then you axted like I was some overbearing snake monger. Feel free to post a pic of the fed snake.

I know about conversation with civilized, educated, open minded people. You're helping me lean about the other kind. When you told me to try my idea, you didn't think it would work, you only said it out of frustration because I wouldn't bow down to your superior knowledge.

[Aaron_S]

Well put, and I totally agree. Generally, a properly setup snake will eat when offered. But more specifically it was not a settling in or a stress related issue or a setup issue, it was a prey issue. That should be obvious now.
Not to mention, since a properly set up snake will eat when offered, does that not mean that my setup is proper?

I never said it was improper just that it was stressed.

Secondly, I don't really ever have 'prey issues" with snakes. Even wild caughts. Only a handful of species don't readily eat mice. Again, I have had the luck of working in the industry as a teen and I dealt with lots of various species.

Third, I do not believe this to be a wild caught. Why? I read the fauna thread. The person you bought it from is apparently a known breeder and I doubt he'd catch a snake JUST to flip. Sounds silly in my book.

The reason I don't have "prey" issues it's taking the accountability of the error being on the keeper. You have not ONCE admitted to the fact that it might just be you providing the problem. Not once. It was always the snake's fault in some manner.I find this to be a bad trait in keeper's. It's called arrogance.
It's asinine to believe that a snake, that's been around forever to not know how to eat.It isn't like they eat one prey item in the wild. It's an animal bred to eat when the opportunity arises. Why would it not if everything is correct? Again. Common sense.

[Aaron_S]

sure Mikoh, but I'm not taking the snake out for a picture like the expert wants me to do. Even someone "inexperienced" as I do knows not to handle the snake right after it ate.
Nice one Terra, imagine if I WAS as inexperienced as you say I am, and I listened to your taunting and got the snake out to prove to you that she ate. Then, I could also send you a picture when she regurged. Nice.

I am not going to suggest you take the animal out for a handling session. That would most likely cause it to regurge but from my experiences I have had to move animals who had eaten within the past couple of hours. They don't regurge so quickly once it's down.

So if you wanted to, you could take a picture by lifting the hide and snapping a pic of the snake in the enclosure.

I am not siding with anyone. I am simply providing the facts of snake physiology.

[Terranaut]

I know about conversation with civilized, educated, open minded people. You're helping me lean about the other kind. When you told me to try my idea, you didn't think it would work, you only said it out of frustration because I wouldn't bow down to your superior knowledge.

Now telling me what I am thinking? Do you honestly think I was hoping for a regurge? Dude your a mess. It's a snake conspiracy. Or is it a WC vs CBB conspiracy by your breeder or a web site conspiracy from the other site you slammed here. Keep going....we are entering the entertainment stage;)

[Mikoh4792]

Keep going....we are entering the entertainment stage;)

Usually happens by the 5th page mark

[poomwah]

Aaron, thank you for your post being civil
I understand where your are coming from whether it seems like I do or not.
I did initially accept the probability that I was wrong, that's why I asked for advice. But before I even asked on here, I had been going over my setup trying to eliminate possible problem areas, by the time I got here, the only possible issue with my setup was the issue that some had been saying about the enclosure being too big.
The more I checked things and the more I looked into it, and made sure I had my bases covered, and the more I noticed the snakes behavior, the more I realized it was something else. I'm often wrong, this is one of those cases I wasn't. I don't know if its wild caught or not, I'd like to think its not, but there are some things that make me (and a few others) suspect it or at the very least concede that its possible. Hopefully not wc, but still possible. The fact alone that the snake is so small for its age shows the likelihood that it may have been a problem feeder all along. Not a definite indicator of course, but enough to put the question in ones mind.
Then after you check your housing conditions, and note the snakes behavior, it was only logical.
And you guys realize that by posting pics of my enclosure, all its going to do is get me criticized. Or Terra is going to jump on his high horse and say its not the same enclosure, in addition to totally criticizing every aspect of it.
I don't have a picture of the snake because she burrowed into the substrate on the warm side. And to be honest, I can't say theres much of a bulge. I wanted to start her off slowly with a small meal.
http://i604.photobucket.com/albums/tt126/poomwah/20140306_195611_zps87encvgd.jpg (http://s604.photobucket.com/user/poomwah/media/20140306_195611_zps87encvgd.jpg.html)

[poomwah]

Now telling me what I am thinking? Do you honestly think I was hoping for a regurge? Dude your a mess. It's a snake conspiracy. Or is it a WC vs CBB conspiracy by your breeder or a web site conspiracy from the other site you slammed here. Keep going....we are entering the entertainment stage;)

This is why I have such a low opinion of you. You twist things around JUST so you can argue. I NEVER said you were hoping for a regurge. If you want some entertainment I could write something funny, but you probably won't understand it because I don't have any crayons.
I wish I could spell it out for you, I said that IF I did what YOU said to do, I would risk the snake regurging. I NEVER said you were hoping for it. I said that luckily I know better.

[Mikoh4792]

Thanks for the pic. So obviously she has places to hide and burrow, I think it would be better to use all that extra space in the air by putting in logs/branches and some fake plants.

Most north american ratsnakes are semi-arboreal and will climb when given options.

What exactly are you using to heat the enclosure? What are you using to read the temps?

[poomwah]

Thanks for the pic. So obviously she has places to hide and burrow, I think it would be better to use all that extra space in the air by putting in logs/branches and some fake plants.

Most north american ratsnakes are semi-arboreal and will climb when given options.

What exactly are you using to heat the enclosure? What are you using to read the temps?

I TOTALLYagree, a LOT of wasted space right now. I still have to sterilize some branches for her. From what I've read and heard yellow rat snakes love to climb even more than most other NA ratsnakes.
There is one foot of 11 inch flexwatt underneath one end of the tank. For measuring temps on this one I use a repti temp laser thermometer.
The substrate is aspen.

[Terranaut]

Omg. Thanks so much for posting your set up.
Yup your right. Your a snake keeping master. Look at all that cover. It sure shows me why the snake won't eat. Also I like the taste of crayons.
Just so this ends....that has no cover. None!!
Go back and read what was written as advice to you. For the sake of your snake follow it and fix that tank up. You don't have to admit you followed our /my advice but for the snakes sake please do something.

[infernalis]

I use a lot of these water bowls, they double as a hide. My corn, milks and a few of my garters chose to hide under there over anywhere else, and I find them at Dollar Tree all the time.

http://www.varanuspark.com/stuff/DWB.jpg

[poomwah]

thanks infernalis, I've used those on some larger snakes. I hadn't thought about one for this application because I could'nt find one small enough to offer a secure feeling hiding space. I might use one when she gets bigger though.
She doesn't use the hides she has very often, its funny to watch , a lot of times she'll crawl out of the substrate and over one of the hides, then back into the substrate on the other side, looks like a little sea monster

[Starbuck]

I'm going to post this again on this thread; for small snakes who will grow out of hides quickly, i don't see much use in buying 'nice' hides as they will be useless after a few months. For them you can use cardboard food boxes (i.e. macaroni boxes etc) or egg cartons. While deep substrate is good to make the snake feel covered while he/she is moving around, it doesn't give them a 'secure' space to curl up. They like to feel the edges of something around them, dark and with small openings. Cardboard is nice because if it gets soiled you can just toss it, and it isn't heavy so won't hurt the snake if it shifts or falls in the enclosure. You could also stack slate or logs to creat hiding spaces, but you need to be VERY careful that they can't fall and trap or crush the snake.

It won't look pretty, but cheap disposable hides like that can be very successful for smaller snakes that will quickly outgrow purchased items.

i also like the 3-4ft lengths of artificial vines you can buy from the craft store. You can anchor them to the sides/lid/around branches and they allow the snake to climb and feel secure and hidden, and they look nice and are easy to clean. Just make sure no wires are poking out.

[wareagleA5]

Did I miss what you did to finally get the snake to eat?

[poomwah]

Omg. Thanks so much for posting your set up.
Yup your right. Your a snake keeping master. Look at all that cover. It sure shows me why the snake won't eat. Also I like the taste of crayons.
Just so this ends....that has no cover. None!!
Go back and read what was written as advice to you. For the sake of your snake follow it and fix that tank up. You don't have to admit you followed our /my advice but for the snakes sake please do something.

Thank you for proving my point, you don't want to help, you just want to criticize and argue, just like I said you would. You couldn't help it could you.
And since you are such an expert on communication you should know that opening with sarcasm is not the most effect means of influencing someone.
I don't need to go back and re-read the advice, I followed the advice and the snake ate. Live with it, you were wrong, it happens, I'm wrong a lot. I'm allowed to be right once in a while.
YOU complain about the tank, I don't see you arguing with Mikoh for saying theres plenty of places to hide.
The snake is as big around as a pencil and had 3 inches of aspen to burrow in, it also has MANY hides that it doesn't use, it spends a lot of time on top of the substrate and hides and this thing could easily go the entire length of the hide and NEVER be seen if it doesn't want to.
For the sake of the snake? if I had listened to you, the snake wouldn't eat . It was suggested I wait another week, then try again. Odds are, even if I did EVERYTHING you said, it wouldn't have eaten then either. And at that point, you would just blame me anyway. But hey, what do I know, right. All I did was get it to eat.

[poomwah]

I'm going to post this again on this thread; for small snakes who will grow out of hides quickly, i don't see much use in buying 'nice' hides as they will be useless after a few months. For them you can use cardboard food boxes (i.e. macaroni boxes etc) or egg cartons. While deep substrate is good to make the snake feel covered while he/she is moving around, it doesn't give them a 'secure' space to curl up. They like to feel the edges of something around them, dark and with small openings. Cardboard is nice because if it gets soiled you can just toss it, and it isn't heavy so won't hurt the snake if it shifts or falls in the enclosure. You could also stack slate or logs to creat hiding spaces, but you need to be VERY careful that they can't fall and trap or crush the snake.

It won't look pretty, but cheap disposable hides like that can be very successful for smaller snakes that will quickly outgrow purchased items.

i also like the 3-4ft lengths of artificial vines you can buy from the craft store. You can anchor them to the sides/lid/around branches and they allow the snake to climb and feel secure and hidden, and they look nice and are easy to clean. Just make sure no wires are poking out.

I've used carboard a LOT in the past and still do on occasion. I had a bunch of bark though, we were sterilizing some wood and the bark fell off of it, so it's just been sitting here. Slate and logs do look great, but like you said, they can be dangerous. The only way I'd stack slate is if it was siliconed together, but then you get a cleaning nightmare.
I was looking at artificial plants but all the ones I find have a strong chemical odor to them. What do you recommend for cleaning them to make them snake safe?
wareagle, I offered her a scented pinkie and she snapped it right up

[wareagleA5]

I've used carboard a LOT in the past and still do on occasion. I had a bunch of bark though, we were sterilizing some wood and the bark fell off of it, so it's just been sitting here. Slate and logs do look great, but like you said, they can be dangerous. The only way I'd stack slate is if it was siliconed together, but then you get a cleaning nightmare.
I was looking at artificial plants but all the ones I find have a strong chemical odor to them. What do you recommend for cleaning them to make them snake safe?
wareagle, I offered her a scented pinkie and she snapped it right up

Cool, did you end up finding an alternative to the anole?

[poomwah]

yeah, Starbuck gave me the idea :] snake had a pinkie and I had a tuna fish sandwich :]

[Tsubaki]

Glad the snake ate! Do wonder how you overlooked me saying to try tuna scenting before starbuck, but as long as it worked i'm satisfied!

[poomwah]

oh god, sorry Tsubaki, I thought it was starbuck that mentioned the hoggies. I totally got the posts mixed up. So it turns out you were the one that gave me the idea, THANK YOU for that :]

[Skulk01]

I use a lot of these water bowls, they double as a hide. My corn, milks and a few of my garters chose to hide under there over anywhere else, and I find them at Dollar Tree all the time.

http://www.varanuspark.com/stuff/DWB.jpg

I love this, pardon me while I sneak in this thread and steal this idea...

[Tsubaki]

Oh no problem don't worry haha, i just figured you missed my message and was curious. Not that i had any hard feelings or anything :)

[Sharlynn93]

I use a lot of these water bowls, they double as a hide. My corn, milks and a few of my garters chose to hide under there over anywhere else, and I find them at Dollar Tree all the time.

http://www.varanuspark.com/stuff/DWB.jpg

I see this bowl and think "disaster" (would also be great for my smaller species) but thinking of my rainbows, etc...I can picture them trying to squeeze in there and flipping them, kinda makes me giggle to think about it! :D

[philbyi-guy]

You don't need to disinfect the wood. Just put the snake on something natural (dirt), and FILL the tank with cover. not one or two areas, make it look like a bush in there. This is far too open and I'm sorry but it is not adequate. Yes it ate, but if you want it to be happy please listen. It also needs some more usable hides. I suggest something like this cutt in half. it will allow him to choose how warm he wants to be. 4 X 100' Solid Drain Pipe (http://www.agrisupply.com/solid-drain-pipe/p/67201/&utm_source=SSIDE&utm_medium=NaturalSS&utm_campaign=SSIDE/) Just bury it in the dirt. It will be secure enough. Simply put several in of topsoil (organic, no manure) and give him lots of cover. It will be better for the snake, which I'm sure you can appreciate

[poomwah]

I see this bowl and think "disaster" (would also be great for my smaller species) but thinking of my rainbows, etc...I can picture them trying to squeeze in there and flipping them, kinda makes me giggle to think about it! :D

that would be a nice mess :P

[poomwah]

Just figured I'd throw a little update, for about a month now, the snake has been in a different home. A breeder has him in a small tub in a room that is used only for reptiles. So the snake has the set up that some people so adamantly demanded that the snake needed. I talked to the breeder today. The snake STILL won't eat an unscented mouse.

[EL Ziggy]

Just figured I'd throw a little update, for about a month now, the snake has been in a different home. A breeder has him in a small tub in a room that is used only for reptiles. So the snake has the set up that some people so adamantly demanded that the snake needed. I talked to the breeder today. The snake STILL won't eat an unscented mouse.
Hey Poom- Sometimes they're just picky eaters. I hope the new keeper gets him on track. Might just take some time.

[poomwah]

Hey Poom- Sometimes they're just picky eaters. I hope the new keeper gets him on track. Might just take some time.

Yeah, I hope so too. I just thought it was funny that how it couldn't have been anything other than the way I was keeping it, and now even though its being kept the way its "supposed" to be kept, that there's still the same problem.
It must have been me though, LOL