Steady temperatures or not?

[Tsubaki]

Last night i had an interesting conversation with a fellow hobbyist, he has all his animals on thermostats and only slowly changes the settings and times twice a year. As a lot of hobbyists do, he keeps the temperatures stable and perfect. Please don't think i am calling that a bad thing, i just wanted to try something slightly different. He seemed interested in my 'method' and is going to try it himself, thought i'd share and ask what you guys think.

I already create the day-time hot-spot where the ambient temperature at night is at it's minimum, so the if the animal wants to warm up at night they will have to move. Like they would have to do if they lived outside, the hottest spot during the day is usually where it cools the hardest during the night as far as i know.

And since they get most of their light from natural daylight already, it seems to make sense to not only let the light lvls vary but also the temperature. My thermostat can balance the temp perfectly off course, however i let the temperature vary more based on the weather. I made sure they cant get too low or too high, just enough change so the animal notices. The hot-spot remains the same, and i have the privilege of being able to check and change the temperatures wherever i am.

Since the temperatures change slightly daily, they have become noticeably more active. But not as you initially might expect, they do not immediately crawl nearer to their hot-spot when the ambient temperature drops a bit, or rush to the cooler end when it raises. On bad days they lie in wait more and only if the bad weather remains for a extended period they move to somewhere warmer, on sunny days however they are more likely to go actively moving around/foraging during the day as well as during the night. Whilst when the temperature remained steady, most(not all) of the foraging took place at night. The just seem to be less 'lazy' when the temperature isn't always perfect in every way.

Wonder if anyone else has ever tried this? Or is it something you would try?

[KORBIN5895]

I like it. It seems most cb snakes are living shorter lives and I wonder if it has to do with them constantly being at optimal temperatures which causes there metabolism to stay at a higher pace for an extended period of time.

[LarryS]

I like it. It seems most cb snakes are living shorter lives and I wonder if it has to do with them constantly being at optimal temperatures which causes there metabolism to stay at a higher pace for an extended period of time.

Shorter than the same specie averages in the wild?
I honestly would have thought the opposite.

I do like the idea too though, and as I've said before I believe this is the direction our hobby is headed. I see computer integrated climate control becoming the norm even in modest setups in the future.

[sharthun]

I like this idea! Natural climate habitat control! We need hardware and software now! :D

[Starbuck]

So do you take your weather data from where they are endemic to ordo you base (bad/good) days on weather locally? I could come up with arguments for both fronts? Very interesting, I like the plan! Its a shame it is so difficult to do longevity studies with these animals, to truly assess the effects of powerfeeding, fasting etc.,

[sharthun]

So do you take your weather data from where they are endemic to ordo you base (bad/good) days on weather locally? I could come up with arguments for both fronts? Very interesting, I like the plan! Its a shame it is so difficult to do longevity studies with these animals, to truly assess the effects of powerfeeding, fasting etc.,

Yeah, even to collect average seasonal climate data from your animals native habitat might be a challenge but could be done, maybe even with Google!

[Derek Roddy]

Its a shame it is so difficult to do longevity studies with these animals, to truly assess the effects of powerfeeding, fasting etc.,

It's not difficult, it just takes time.

In the early 90's I had a clutch of Carpets that I did a feeding experiment with.

As a kid I spent several hours a day in the woods looking for wildlife....snakes in general. In all that time as a kid (and even now) I had NEVER seen a fat snake in the bush...(still to this day haven't). Sure, maybe see a snake that's eaten a big meal but, never a fat snake.

So, when I started keeping exotics (in the mid/late 80s) and, meeting local herpers, etc... I would always hear these statements like "condition her for breeding" make sure she has "enough body weight", "fatten her up", etc.

Didn't really think about it until I started noticing that the average life span of a captive snake was only about 15 years. I had read in books that snakes have been known to live upwards of 40 years in zoo's (who BTW don't use terms or husbandry like "fatten her up for breeding") so, I wondered if over feeding these animals would shorten their life span?


In the early 90s... I had a clutch of carpets that I gave 2.2 to a buddy who was of the "condition for breeding" mindset.
For the first 3 years he fed very heavy, and when the animals were mature and breeding, he would cut back feeding and offer very large meals but, only every few weeks.

I kept 2.2 for myself and started a feeding schedule of smaller meals more often.

Now my animals weren't breeding as quickly as his were but, all of his are now dead (at about 13/15 years old) and mine are still breeding at 20+.


D

[Derek Roddy]

Yeah, even to collect average seasonal climate data from your animals native habitat might be a challenge but could be done, maybe even with Google!

Google...


annual yearly temps in ________


Very easy.


D

[Tsubaki]

So do you take your weather data from where they are endemic to ordo you base (bad/good) days on weather locally? I could come up with arguments for both fronts? Very interesting, I like the plan! Its a shame it is so difficult to do longevity studies with these animals, to truly assess the effects of powerfeeding, fasting etc.,


I base bad/good days on the weather here, with the climate of their country of origin off-course. I once compared just the good days / bad days ratio online, without looking at the temps/climate.. There wasn't any substantial difference in numbers.

I have often wondered the same thing, if it influences their age. I have had some very old snake who were still going strong! And i also do not believe in ' fattening up' females breeding.

[Terranaut]

A product idea I discussed with Mykee a year ago was a thermostat thatused internet weather data from the snakes natural area to set daily temps. It would be easy to do manually.

[Starbuck]

Im sure its not that difficult to get rainfall/humidity/temp/day length data, but my concern would be that the snake gets different environmental signals which dont sync with what they are actually experiencing due to barometric pressure (almost impossible to control in captivity) and magnetic conditions (not studied to my knowledge in snakes, and likely not very important given that they dont migrate) but if barometric readings indicate a storm but regional locality data says dry and hot, perhaps you'd be confusing the snake.

[KORBIN5895]

Shorter than the same specie averages in the wild?
I honestly would have thought the opposite.

I do like the idea too though, and as I've said before I believe this is the direction our hobby is headed. I see computer integrated climate control becoming the norm even in modest setups in the future.

I'm hearing a lot of people claiming bias are dying around 10-12 years old.

[Tsubaki]

Im sure its not that difficult to get rainfall/humidity/temp/day length data, but my concern would be that the snake gets different environmental signals which dont sync with what they are actually experiencing due to barometric pressure (almost impossible to control in captivity) and magnetic conditions (not studied to my knowledge in snakes, and likely not very important given that they dont migrate) but if barometric readings indicate a storm but regional locality data says dry and hot, perhaps you'd be confusing the snake.


Using local weather conditions would solve that problem, the reason i use local weather is because i also use natural daylight. I think it would be very confusing if there is a storm here, but the enclosure temperature rises because the locality data says it is very sunny. Also like i said before, the pure amount of good days/ bad days do not differ that much from each other, the only real difference is the climate. So if its a bad day here, their habitat has the ambient temperature of a bad day in their own climate.

[shaunyboy]

i adjust my temperatures according to the season,and turn the heat off at night,except in the winter when i set the thermostats to give the correct night time lows...

i use the BBC Worldwide Weather website to get the temps in Australia,this gives me great guide lines

i keep my Carpets lean and muscular and don't attempt breeding until the age of 5 years and over

i give my carpets 3 or 4 feeds per winter

i only feed my Diamonds 6 month of the year and they get a yearly cooling cycle from their 2nd year on wards


cheers shaun

[CosmicOwl]

It's not difficult, it just takes time.

In the early 90's I had a clutch of Carpets that I did a feeding experiment with.

As a kid I spent several hours a day in the woods looking for wildlife....snakes in general. In all that time as a kid (and even now) I had NEVER seen a fat snake in the bush...(still to this day haven't). Sure, maybe see a snake that's eaten a big meal but, never a fat snake.

So, when I started keeping exotics (in the mid/late 80s) and, meeting local herpers, etc... I would always hear these statements like "condition her for breeding" make sure she has "enough body weight", "fatten her up", etc.

Didn't really think about it until I started noticing that the average life span of a captive snake was only about 15 years. I had read in books that snakes have been known to live upwards of 40 years in zoo's (who BTW don't use terms or husbandry like "fatten her up for breeding") so, I wondered if over feeding these animals would shorten their life span?


In the early 90s... I had a clutch of carpets that I gave 2.2 to a buddy who was of the "condition for breeding" mindset.
For the first 3 years he fed very heavy, and when the animals were mature and breeding, he would cut back feeding and offer very large meals but, only every few weeks.

I kept 2.2 for myself and started a feeding schedule of smaller meals more often.

Now my animals weren't breeding as quickly as his were but, all of his are now dead (at about 13/15 years old) and mine are still breeding at 20+.


D

This is really interesting. It seem like a schedule of smaller meals more frequently would be less natural than feeding large meals less frequently.

[Derek Roddy]

This is really interesting. It seem like a schedule of smaller meals more frequently would be less natural than feeding large meals less frequently.

See, this is one of those instances where y'all ask how "myths" get started.

Why do keeper feel that these animals can't find and kill food in the wild?

All the studies I've seen and the research I've done myself.... not to mention the amount of animals I've followed during my youth all suggest that these animals are highly effective hunters.

There was a black rat snake on our property as a kid. Every summer (for about 4 years) I saw this snake and every time I saw him....(about every 3 days) he had a fresh meal in his gut.

I think a lot of it comes from people only taking pictures of these large meals being eating and that's not the norm at all. Those large oversized meals don't happen very often....(but, they do happen)

But, there's nothing exciting about a snake eating a rat or frog so, people don't bother taking photos of such "normal" events.
Only if there's a burm with a gator, or Olive with a wallaby, or African Rock with a gazelle.......etc

These animals are highly successful eaters in the wild.

D

[CosmicOwl]

See, this is one of those instances where y'all ask how "myths" get started.

Why do keeper feel that these animals can't find and kill food in the wild?

All the studies I've seen and the research I've done myself.... not to mention the amount of animals I've followed during my youth all suggest that these animals are highly effective hunters.

There was a black rat snake on our property as a kid. Every summer (for about 4 years) I saw this snake and every time I saw him....(about every 3 days) he had a fresh meal in his gut.

I think a lot of it comes from people only taking pictures of these large meals being eating and that's not the norm at all. Those large oversized meals don't happen very often....(but, they do happen)

But, there's nothing exciting about a snake eating a rat or frog so, people don't bother taking photos of such "normal" events.
Only if there's a burm with a gator, or Olive with a wallaby, or African Rock with a gazelle.......etc

These animals are highly successful eaters in the wild.

D

That is a fair point, and I wasn't trying to say that they should be power fed. You make a good point about them being good hunters and I guess they probably would eat whatever they could get their mouths around in the wild. What really interests me is the role of metabolism in a snake's health and longevity. We know that some healthy individuals can go a year or more with suffering more than minor weight loss. How long after eating can they shift into that state of super low metabolic action that allows them to go for extreme period of time without eating? What are the long term pros and cons of this fasting?

[CameronVarnish]

It's not difficult, it just takes time.

In the early 90's I had a clutch of Carpets that I did a feeding experiment with.

As a kid I spent several hours a day in the woods looking for wildlife....snakes in general. In all that time as a kid (and even now) I had NEVER seen a fat snake in the bush...(still to this day haven't). Sure, maybe see a snake that's eaten a big meal but, never a fat snake.

So, when I started keeping exotics (in the mid/late 80s) and, meeting local herpers, etc... I would always hear these statements like "condition her for breeding" make sure she has "enough body weight", "fatten her up", etc.

Didn't really think about it until I started noticing that the average life span of a captive snake was only about 15 years. I had read in books that snakes have been known to live upwards of 40 years in zoo's (who BTW don't use terms or husbandry like "fatten her up for breeding") so, I wondered if over feeding these animals would shorten their life span?


In the early 90s... I had a clutch of carpets that I gave 2.2 to a buddy who was of the "condition for breeding" mindset.
For the first 3 years he fed very heavy, and when the animals were mature and breeding, he would cut back feeding and offer very large meals but, only every few weeks.

I kept 2.2 for myself and started a feeding schedule of smaller meals more often.

Now my animals weren't breeding as quickly as his were but, all of his are now dead (at about 13/15 years old) and mine are still breeding at 20+.


D

I find this very interesting. How often do you feed, and what percentage of the body weight of the snake is your meal?
Thanks, Cameron

[Derek Roddy]

I find this very interesting. How often do you feed, and what percentage of the body weight of the snake is your meal?
Thanks, Cameron


I simply feed smaller meals more often....instead of 1 very large meal very several weeks

So, If I have a 5 foot snake, it's gets small rats. Then it gets fed when it's searching for food again. (which will generally be 4 to 5 days)

D

[Derek Roddy]

Oh yeah and consistent temps.

I've never done it myself but, there are a few keepers I know that use this method. I personally feel that if they don't have a heat source at night in the wild....why give them one in captivity?

I personally believe they do benefit from being able to "cool down" during the evenings. Just as eggs sometimes benefit from night temp drops.

D

[SnakeyJay]

I'm not disputing that it could be beneficial but something popped into my mind reading this.. The weather temps for the country of origins that would be collected and used for the stats would be surface or air temps?. The snakes would have the option (if terrestrial) to find burrows and shelter where the temperature hasn't dropped to such a degree..

How would you get around this, or would you offer some heat source at night aswell?

[Tsubaki]

Oh yeah and consistent temps.

I've never done it myself but, there are a few keepers I know that use this method. I personally feel that if they don't have a heat source at night in the wild....why give them one in captivity?

I personally believe they do benefit from being able to "cool down" during the evenings. Just as eggs sometimes benefit from night temp drops.

D

Because where they come from, their tail won't freeze of from a 'cool down'.. If the weather is bad enough here, i think i get Snake-Popsicles in the morning in stead of cooled down snakes. Ever walked around in a tropical country at night? I went to Thailand last winter, and at 3 am i was still walking around in only shirt and shorts. (Even though the natives were wearing coats and scarfs etc haha) Its not natural to have any artificial heat source, but it's even more unnatural to let a snake experiences night temperatures of the wrong climate.

So basically, i think Cooling down is nice, the temperature drops here 2. But unless you live in a similar climate, and can imitate thinks like rotting piles of leaves where they can find a bit more warmth at night.. You should at least offer similar native ambient temperatures.

[Derek Roddy]

Because where they come from, their tail won't freeze of from a 'cool down'..

Huh????? Who would let their snakes freeze from a "cool down"....that makes absolutely no sense. Haha


Have you ever walked around in a tropical country at night?

Yes, I've been to Australia, Indo, Thailand, India, Africa and, I live in south florida.

thinks like rotting piles of leaves where they can find a bit more warmth at night.. You should at least offer similar native ambient temperatures.

Native natural temps in any pythons range is normally 8-10 degrees cooler at night than the day.....my point was why keep them at the same temps all the time when they get a natural 10 - 30 degree drops (depending on time of year)?

And a pile of leaves, hole in the ground, etc is not a heat source.

The same thing can be accomplished with a next/hide box in their cage.



D

[Terranaut]

Because where they come from, their tail won't freeze of from a 'cool down'.. If the weather is bad enough here, i think i get Snake-Popsicles in the morning in stead of cooled down snakes. Ever walked around in a tropical country at night? I went to Thailand last winter, and at 3 am i was still walking around in only shirt and shorts. (Even though the natives were wearing coats and scarfs etc haha) Its not natural to have any artificial heat source, but it's even more unnatural to let a snake experiences night temperatures of the wrong climate.

So basically, i think Cooling down is nice, the temperature drops here 2. But unless you live in a similar climate, and can imitate thinks like rotting piles of leaves where they can find a bit more warmth at night.. You should at least offer similar native ambient temperatures.

I don't think Derek has his snakes outside so I doubt they will see anything cooler than the ambient temps of his home. I do this for my carpets and colubrids but my boa and ball get heat 24/7.

[Derek Roddy]

The snakes would have the option (if terrestrial) to find burrows and shelter where the temperature hasn't dropped to such a degree..

How would you get around this, or would you offer some heat source at night aswell?

I'm curious as to why you think that temps drop to "such a degree" in python territory around the world?
I mean, with the exception of the Diamond python.....most pythons around the world live in the same weather conditions. Some a little drier, some a little wetter but, the ambient temps are about the same the world over where these animals occur.

88-90 during the day 80-84 at night (averages) for most of these snakes populations.

Unless you let your room drop below 60 every night.....your snakes will be just fine at room temps at nighttime.

During winter months....my room can get down to the low 60s mid 50s and they're just fine.

D

[SnakeyJay]

I'm curious as to why you think that temps drop to "such a degree" in python territory around the world?
I mean, with the exception of the Diamond python.....most pythons around the world live in the same weather conditions. Some a little drier, some a little wetter but, the ambient temps are about the same the world over where these animals occur.

88-90 during the day 80-84 at night (averages) for most of these snakes populations.

Unless you let your room drop below 60 every night.....your snakes will be just fine at room temps at nighttime.

During winter months....my room can get down to the low 60s mid 50s and they're just fine.

D

Firstly, I wasn't aware that this was only relating to pythons so I'm sorry if I missed that.

That's my point, temps here in winter will drop quite low within my household ( need new windows fitted) and that isn't their natural temp drop.. I may be missing something tho n not quite get your point.

[Tsubaki]

My snakes are up in the attic, and if its freezing outside. its not 'room temperature' (depending on the definition) in there so they Need a heat source at night.

No heat source + freezing outdoor temps = Snake Popsicles haha :D

[Derek Roddy]

Firstly, I wasn't aware that this was only relating to pythons so I'm sorry if I missed that.

That's my point, temps here in winter will drop quite low within my household ( need new windows fitted) and that isn't their natural temp drop.. I may be missing something tho n not quite get your point.

Well, with any other snakes such as colubrids, etc.....some live in area's where it does freeze and, they have no heat source in the wild. So, in that case you should do you provide a heat source? Do you not hibernate them if they do so in the wild?

The point I was making is if you keep your animal at a natural temp range of their own temp range. Why would you not offer a night drop if that's what they get in the wild? Why would you keep them at a consistent temp if they don't get that where they come from?

D

[Derek Roddy]

My snakes are up in the attic, and if its freezing outside. its not 'room temperature' (depending on the definition) in there so they Need a heat source at night.

No heat source + freezing outdoor temps = Snake Popsicles haha :D


I understand that....does that mean that they don't get a night drop? Are they a constant temp all day/all year? Maybe they get a night drop naturally because of your natural night temp drop in a freezing room (during the winter)

Also, if your snakes are in an attic that freezes......how are you keeping the air temps properly?
Because, providing a hot spot when the air temp is freezing isn't the best environment for your snakes.

I'm curious how you try maintain the air temps. Heat panels, Lights, belly heat, etc?

I'm sure it can be done but, that's got to be a headache. haha.

D

[Tsubaki]

A.t.m in my temporary enclosures: I use 2 heat mats on the bottom, one small one and a large one. The large one is set on a lower temp and is always on, the smaller one is used as a hotspot during the day. During the winter i have to turn on a infrared bulb as well, to make sure the ambient temperatures don't drop too much. The smaller mat going off, and the bulb being tuned down by my day/night thermostats. Make for a nice cool down during the night, without them freezing or me having to tweak everything myself every night.

Going to be different though, we're working on our attic now and building new enclosures. These will have normal (not pet specific) floor heating, and we're insulating the roof so the ambient temperatures will be easier to maintain.

[EL Ziggy]

Well, with any other snakes such as colubrids, etc.....some live in area's where it does freeze and, they have no heat source in the wild. So, in that case you should do you provide a heat source? Do you not hibernate them if they do so in the wild?

The point I was making is if you keep your animal at a natural temp range of their own temp range. Why would you not offer a night drop if that's what they get in the wild? Why would you keep them at a consistent temp if they don't get that where they come from?

D

Derek- I think I understand what you're saying about the night drop. It's makes sense that temps naturally drop in the evening. I have colubrids and I usually keep their warm side temps at a constant 86-90. How much of a night time temp drop would you suggest? 5-10 degrees maybe? I've thought about trying this before. When it comes to supplying no heat source at all and only using the rooms ambient temps, what about after a feeding should I raise the temps a bit to aid with digestion? My kings seem to prefer warmer temps than my bull. I've heard several pit owners who say they offer no heat source. I just want to make sure my girl doesn't get too cold, especially in the winter. Our summers are pretty warm and I believe they would all be ok. But there wouldn't be much of a temp gradient would there?

[Derek Roddy]

Night time drops.....I always look at the area that said species comes from and go from there.

I house and keep mostly BHPs, Womas and a few Carpets here and there. The temps here in South florida is very similar to where these animals occur in their native ranges. So, I really don't have to do much.

In the winter....my room will get down to 50 but, only a few nights over the season. This year we had several full weeks of 50 degree nights....but, most of the time down here night time temps in the winter are in the low 60s. I give my animals no heat at night during this time.

If they have an opportunity to bask during the day, they can retreat to a hide and keep their ambient temps in check...without a heat source. After all, there is no heat source in the wild other than the sun.

Same for digestion, if they have a basking spot during the day, they'll be fine.

Do any of you guys own a temp gun? Very handy piece of gear. I use it to read temps of wild snakes and their habitats a good deal. I've found over time that no matter what the amb temps are....most snakes are in the 87- 89 degree range. Unless basking....where I've seen a rat snakes skin temp in excess of 115 in exposed full sun.

At night, I've seen wild animals as low as 70 and below....active, out searching for food.


D

[SnakeyJay]

Well, with any other snakes such as colubrids, etc.....some live in area's where it does freeze and, they have no heat source in the wild. So, in that case you should do you provide a heat source? Do you not hibernate them if they do so in the wild?

The point I was making is if you keep your animal at a natural temp range of their own temp range. Why would you not offer a night drop if that's what they get in the wild? Why would you keep them at a consistent temp if they don't get that where they come from?

D

I'm not argueing whether it should be done or not... I'm asking how you'll get around the fact that some use burrows when the temp drops to keep warmish or to hibernate..

There is no heat source in the wild at night but the ground can act as a buffer to these temps in winter, and hold some residual heat below through the night.

It's just a thought that popped into my head, but it seems you've viewed this as an attack on your theory. I'm not trying to pick it apart, just clarifying the specifics.

[Derek Roddy]

I'm not argueing whether it should be done or not... I'm asking how you'll get around the fact that some use burrows when the temp drops to keep warmish or to hibernate..

I don't feel attacked at all brother.

If you've ever done temp gun readings of things like burrows, etc at night...you will learn that they are actually cooler than above ground.
There is no source inside a burrow, etc to make it warm. Only if something warm enters the burrow will it "gain" heat.

A snake that has been basking can enter a burrow and use his own stored heat to keep warm.
For instance, when one of my BHPs has been basking and returns to his hide box....the temp inside the hide goes up several degree just because the warm snake entered it and, it's a confined space. The box does not retain heat by itself without direct exposure to a heat source...something that a burrow doesn't get.


There is no heat source in the wild at night but, the ground can act as a buffer to these temps in winter, and hold some residual heat below through the night.

Yes, it can....but, not a 88 degree basking area....see where I'm going here?

Yes, roads, concrete, etc can hold heat but, only for a few hours after the sun goes down and no road, burrow, etc will be in excess of natural ambient temps as they are during the day....nowhere even close.

D

[Derek Roddy]

I'm not argueing whether it should be done or not... I'm asking how you'll get around the fact that some use burrows when the temp drops to keep warmish or to hibernate..

And, exactly how would that be different than crawling into a hide, in a cage that's had ambient temps of 88 degrees all day and a basking area, if the temps have dropped at night?

It wouldn't right?

D

[SnakeyJay]

Fair enough, there isn't much difference. As I said, it was just a thought.. only way to test it is to try it. :)

[red ink]

I don't fuss over exact temps in my set ups, rather I provide optimum temperatures within a safe baseline level and let the snakes figure out the rest.

I use basic ambient wall mounted air thermostats in 80% of the enclosures.

I set the ambient air temperature cut off settings based on what the basking temps are under the heat source. This is measured by an IR temp gun. I.E. i set the air temp thermostat in the enclosure to 25C leave it for a few hours and hit the basking spot with the IR temp gun. It would usually say around 33C in my enclosures. I have a digi thermometer on the thermostat to let me know the temps it is reading (roughly).

As an example the digi thermo reads 27C check what the basking temp is... reads 36C. I call that within safe parameters. I wait for the manual click of the thermostat switching off, look at the digi temp: reads 27C. Then I know the heat source does not get hotter than 36C based on the air temps.

The rest is for the snake to work out where it wants to be in relation to distance to heat source. If it feels too hot it moves away... too cold then it spends it's time directly under the heat source. My temps can vary by 10-15C in the enclosure dependant on time of day or season at any given time. The enclosure never gets cold enough for the snake to "freeze" or hot enough to "cook" as the thermostat will shut off the heat source.

Ambient air temps around the enclosure also affect the air temps in the enclosure. Ambient air temps too hot and it affects the air temps in the enclosure above set parameters = no heat source for the day.

I also have a timer connected to the wall thermostat to the power source... depending on the season I will set up a "cut off time" to all power to the enclosure. During summer the enclosures are powered till around midnight then totally off till the morning where the timer "kicks" back in.

In winter if I'm cooling, I set the timer at intermitant intervals and set the air temps to a desired level (usually I would drop the air temps to 18C).

The way I see it as long as I have a sufficient thermal gradient, the snake being ectothermic and being more sensitive to temperature changes will work out the rest... it's what they're built for.

[CosmicOwl]

This thread has got me thinking a bit about heating. The consistent belly heat used by many keepers isn't something wild snakes would encounter. They'd have to bask in the sun or find a heat retaining object that they could lay on to warm up. I wonder if constant belly heat might end up being a case of too much of a good thing.