Hamburg pickups- the puffy crew!

[Will0W783]

This past Hamburg show turned out to be great for me. I made enough money to complete my puff adder future breeding group. I really love these cranky sausage snakes!

First up is my adult Tanzanian female, Bubbles. She's in shed right now, but she's a nice chocolate color with a bit of pink and grey. She's pretty calm for a puff adder, but has her moments!
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh115/Will0W783/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-02/20140223_170004_zpsyckcwniz.jpg (http://s254.photobucket.com/user/Will0W783/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-02/20140223_170004_zpsyckcwniz.jpg.html)

Next is Blossom, a Tanzanian x Cape female I got in a trade last week. She's got some great color to her, and I can't wait to see how she looks as she grows. She's also got a great temperament.
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh115/Will0W783/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-02/20140214_200521_zpsksmoetoc.jpg (http://s254.photobucket.com/user/Will0W783/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-02/20140214_200521_zpsksmoetoc.jpg.html)
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh115/Will0W783/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-02/20140214_162539_zpsnuljrfvl.jpg (http://s254.photobucket.com/user/Will0W783/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-02/20140214_162539_zpsnuljrfvl.jpg.html)

Next is Buttercup, a Namibian female yearling I got at the show. She's very light and stunning, but so far seems to have a typical foul puff adder attitude. Gotta love it! She's probably the prettiest puff I've ever seen, with cream, red, tan, black, white and yellow.
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh115/Will0W783/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-02/20140223_165944_zps5gu0ljjm.jpg (http://s254.photobucket.com/user/Will0W783/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-02/20140223_165944_zps5gu0ljjm.jpg.html)
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh115/Will0W783/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-02/20140223_165939_zpsrjrmdrsj.jpg (http://s254.photobucket.com/user/Will0W783/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-02/20140223_165939_zpsrjrmdrsj.jpg.html)

Finally, here is my male Doma, Tanzania locale male, P. Diddy. He's a little fellow right now, but I'm hoping he will be ready by next season.
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh115/Will0W783/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-02/20140223_165923_zpsozhhksw3.jpg (http://s254.photobucket.com/user/Will0W783/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-02/20140223_165923_zpsozhhksw3.jpg.html)
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh115/Will0W783/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-02/received_m_mid_1392433069412_f164ba51911fb10950_0_ zps9wilboqz.jpeg (http://s254.photobucket.com/user/Will0W783/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-02/received_m_mid_1392433069412_f164ba51911fb10950_0_ zps9wilboqz.jpeg.html)

[Sharlynn93]

beautiful! I wish I had known you were going to be there...I love your posts and would loved to have met you! :D

[Jinxygirl]

they're gorgeous!
and I LOVE the 'Power-Puff Girls' names :)

[Will0W783]

Sharlynn, I'm there at every Hamburg show. I help my friends run their table. It's over in the second aisle from the left, towards the entrance. There are always mostly venomous on the table.

[Sharlynn93]

omg! I stopped there twice to admire! :D I will look you up next time...we want to take my step-kids down...we wanted to scope it out for ourselves to see if it was worth a trip with a 9 and 10 year old for 4 hrs one way first...LOL

[Will0W783]

Wow, 4 hours is a long way! You probably saw me- I had on a gray shirt and straight dark brown hair, glasses. I'm always happy to meet other snake people. :)

[Sharlynn93]

yes, I did see you! hubby and I are fascinated with hots...just dont want any here..LOL...but he LOVES when I show him your pics! he mooned over your table for a while both times...too many people for you to remember, but he is 6'6" tall, so next time watch for a really tall skinny guy! with a wife about a foot shorter...LOL

[Will0W783]

Thanks Jinxygirl, the Powerpuff girls names were my fiance's idea. I HAD to name the male P. Diddy, lmao. I always said if I ever got puff adders, the male would be Diddy.

Puff adders are really interesting snakes; each locality has its own coloration and slight difference to the patterns. In fact, there is talk of reworking the Bitis complex to include only puff adders, and breaking them down into various species. I'm not really on board with that- puff adders can and do interbreed with Gaboon vipers in the wild. In my mind, if two species can breed, they are in the same genus. That's historically one of the hallmarks of a genus. Regardless, I think that puffs at least need to be broken into subspecies- there are some really neat differences. For example, Cape puffs are usually bright yellow and black, Namibian puffs are very light in color, with lots of cream, buff, reads and yellows, Tanzanians are your standard chocolate and cream puff, etc.

[SSSSnakes]

Great looking snakes as always. Your collection is getting pretty big by now. I did not go this time, but sent someone to pick up something for me. I got an Egyptian Cobra. That I will post pictures when I get some free time.

[Will0W783]

Egyptian cobras are beautiful. Yes, my collection is growing nicely. I've made the tough decision to find new homes for the majority of my non-venomous snakes. I want more time and space to focus on breeding the vipers. Right now I'm at 31 snakes, which is a good number. I like to try to keep it under 40 snakes.

[Will0W783]

Ugh, so I got put in an awkward position last night. My friend that sold me Buttercup, the really light and beautiful yearling puff adder at Hamburg, texted me that he found a male he wants to pair her with so he wants her back. He'd assured me all the previous week that he only needed one from that pair of siblings, and I could definitely buy one. I did, and I gave him what he paid for her.
I do not want to part with this snake; I'm trying to build a nice little breeding group and I want her blood in my group. I offered him a breeding loan, and he said "I don't want it on a loan. I want it to pair with this unrelated male I got last year that looks like her." I said, well I want the bloodline, so would you trade the female for the male sibling? He said he'll "think about it."

This is a friend who has done me favors in the past; he's given me a few baby snakes and I have promised him offspring from any and all litters produced by those snakes. I thought we had a good working relationship where we could exchange snakes as needed on loans/trades/etc. I feel like he's being a bit out of line to demand an animal back that he sold me and not want to work out a loan with me....

Anyone have any advice on how I should handle this? I don't want to ruin a friendship or create hard feelings, but I'm really really attached to this snake and I need a few good quality animals for my group. He has about 10 awesome puffs already....

[Sharlynn93]

wow...kind of a tight spot there...would hate to break a good working relationship, but I totally relate with the bonding thing with a snake...I had an offer for my AC garter, but I do NOT want to part with it...tough call, sweetie...hope your decision works out for you..keep us posted, I LOVE to see your posts and updates...

[SSSSnakes]

He needs to understand that he made a deal with you and he needs to live up to his end of it. It is very important to be a man of your word. If he as a friend does not understand this, then he is not much of a friend no matter how long you have known him. You are being more than reasonable. It sounds like he wants everything his way, and if this breaks up a relationship, then so be it.

[Tsubaki]

Beautiful animals! :D and personally i believe your friend is completely out of line demanding buttercup back. He decided to sell her, so if you loan her to him that is already very lenient. I would make that very clear myself, it's not a video-game but a living breathing animal. And a deal is a deal.

[Will0W783]

Thanks guys, I'm going to stick to my guns on this one. I have given two options- trade for her brother or loan her. In the past, he asked me to return a really rare arboreal viper because he'd found a male. I was ok with that scenario, because she was the only one in the country and the species needs to be propagated. It turned out the male was misidentified (it was another, more common species) so I still have that female. In that case, I was sad but willing to send her back to him, because I know he'd have a better chance of breeding her successfully. In this case, though, I have a male puff and am more than capable of breeding them. I'm also not saying he can't breed her, just that I won't return her permanently. Hopefully everything works out. Either way, I'm glad to have a nice little breeding group of puffs and can't wait for P. Diddy to be big enough to breed my girls!

[philbyi-guy]

Very nice. Puff adders aren't my favorite, but they are still very pretty

[DragonsEye]

Neat snakes. I'd have to side with what others have said -- it's awful ballsy for him to "demand" her permanent return. A breeding loan sounds perfectly reasonable as does the sibling trade.

[Will0W783]

Ugh.....tonight sucked. My friend messaged me that he was unwilling to trade for her sibling or do a loan. Then he threw in that he's given me very discounted or free snakes and he's trying to breed locality specific and after all he's done for me....
it's just a snake. I don't need or want it to blow up and end up costing me contacts and a table to work at at Hamburg and everything. At this point I'm so disgusted I don't even want puff adders anymore. ..

[Sublimeballs]

Ugh.....tonight sucked. My friend messaged me that he was unwilling to trade for her sibling or do a loan. Then he threw in that he's given me very discounted or free snakes and he's trying to breed locality specific and after all he's done for me....
it's just a snake. I don't need or want it to blow up and end up costing me contacts and a table to work at at Hamburg and everything. At this point I'm so disgusted I don't even want puff adders anymore. ..

I'm sorry Kim, it's a messed up situation that you've been put into here. It's hard when things like this happen between friends. Is he willing to work out anything else(give you some female babies when she produces, etc..)? Or just you need to sell me back that snake?

I feel you've been more then fair in this situation; unfortunately he feels because of his acts of kindness/friendship in the past that you should do what he wants. Although what he's doing now isn't very friend-like. I can understand your worries about loosing friends/connections, as they are very important. I'm not entirely sure what I'd do in the same situation.

it seems your options are:
1.) tell him you arnt going to unless you work out some sort of deal; getting the sib male, you get a few females when she produces, etc..
2.) you just sell it back to him and keep the friendship as is but lose your snake.
3.) you tell him to eat a big bag of a males anatomy, and keep your snake but possibly ruin a friendship.

Wish I could be more helpful.

What kind rare arboreal viper was it anyway?

[Tsubaki]

I personally wouldn't consider that a friend, demanding an animal back like that when you are so willing to work with him. No matter what they have done for me, it's just plain rude walking over someone like that. Only being a friend when it benefits them 100%, is not being a friend at all. Just my 2 cents.

[Will0W783]

I'm pretty upset....I had considered this person one of my closest friends, but if all it takes is me trying to work something out for that snake to throw him into a rage, I guess I was mistaken about the friendship. Sucks finding out this way though. .... :-(

[SSSSnakes]

A friend does not do this to a friend. You are better off without him. He has a large collection of his own and does not have to have everything his own way. Tell him to grow up or he'll loose you as a friend and see if he cares.

If you give in, will you ever feel comfortable doing business with him again? Every time you make a deal with him, you will be thinking if he is going to want to take back the deal. He does not care about a friendship, only his personal gain and to boost his ego over his collection.

[Will0W783]

I don't think I'm going to do deals with him anymore. It's not worth worrying about later consequences. He appears to not be speaking to me now...I tried calling him because I wanted to talk about it but he won't answer. He asked me what I wanted to do, then flipped when I suggested ideas other than just handing it back. I would have appreciated him asking if he could buy her back instead of just saying "I want her back. I need her back" and throwing in my face past favors and the fact that I'm friends with another keeper he doesn't like. I have a feeling he's pissed at me about something else too, but I'm really tired of dealing with tempers and people who want to claim to be great friends only to turn on me later. ...

[Will0W783]

I got a call from my friend this afternoon...he said he didn't want this to be a big problem and wanted to talk about it. The biggest issue was that I thought his texts were angry and confrontational; it turns out he was just trying to make them shorter because his phone is giving him trouble and it's hard to type out a long text, and he wasn't getting all of my responses, so he thought I was telling him to pound sand. It got way messier than it ever needed to be.

The story is that he bought a pair of sibling puffs years ago that looked far brighter and more ornate than any others, and has been trying to figure out what their locality is and find more. This sibling pair is spot-on and turns out to be from others of that original imported group. So, the animals are rare and I agree should be kept locality-pure as long as no inbreeding occurs. He told me that's what he wants to do and he'll happily send me babies when they breed. He also offered me Habus for giving the puff back, because he doesn't want me to end up shorted and hurt.
I really wish we could have had a conversation like that from the start, instead of confusing texts back and forth...
I don't mind that much; I just got put off by the tone of the texts and would have appreciated being asked and talked to instead of him demanding. Anyway, it's worked out now. I will bring the puff back to the next show and he'll bring the Habus. And I'll get baby puffs when they produce. That's more than fair for me...it gives me a better deal in the end; and it's not about money or who gets the better deal to me....I just wish we could have avoided all the drama and gone straight to talking like friends calmly about it.
In the future, I'm instating a "NO texting about potentially touchy issues; EVER" with all of my friends. I don't really let that many people get close to me; I don't want to lose the friends I have and it's so easy to completely botch up a friendship over money and monetary deals.

Anyway, thanks everyone for listening to my rant and being supportive with this. I generally try not to bring my problems onto forums; I just really didn't know how to handle this one. Thank you everyone; you guys are great!

[Lankyrob]

Glad it worked out :)

[Sublimeballs]

Glad to hear things are working out Kim. Sucks you gotta wait for babies but hopefully you'll get a nice pair out of it; and habus are really cool.

[Will0W783]

I know...after talking with my friend though, I decided that this particular puff will have better breeding opportunities with his collection, and I'll get babies. I already have 2.1 Habus, so a few more will give me multiple breeding pairs and be a good fit here.

[Sharlynn93]

so glad to hear it all worked out! looking forward to pics of the babies when you get them :)