Black-Headed Pythons Breeding and Weight

[xSerpentGoddess]

Ok, So I may have an opportunity to get into a small Blackhead project. A friend of mine is selling a trio. Another friend of mine is telling me not to buy it. He is saying that this person's snakes used to be overweight. Now these snakes appear to be in good health and are at a proper weight now. He is saying that apparently Blackheads don't make good breeders if they're EVER overweight.

Has anyone else ever heard this about Blackheaded Pythons?

[KORBIN5895]

Pm DerekRhody on here.

[Derek Roddy]

A Fresh Reminder for BHP Keepers. (http://pilbarapythons.com/trueblue/index.php?topic=3350.0)

Please look at this thread.

And remember....NEVER buy adult BHPs from anyone who doesn't know how to feed them. If they've ever had large rats...stay away!

D

[KORBIN5895]

A Fresh Reminder for BHP Keepers. (http://pilbarapythons.com/trueblue/index.php?topic=3350.0)

Please look at this thread.

And remember....NEVER buy adult BHPs from anyone who doesn't know how to feed them. If they've ever had large rats...stay away!

D

Pm this guy.......

Why never large rats?

[Sublimeballs]

If I remember correctly bhps need smaller, low fat meals more often. They die from fatty build ups do to over eating, or fatty meals. I've never kept one so don't quote me, just something I remember reading.

[Derek Roddy]

Why never large rats?

Large rats kill BHPs....period. Or at very least, renders them useless for breeding.

The fat content in older rodents is the culprit. BHPs eat other reptiles in the wild (Esp, in the WA region) and, they just can't take the oversized meals in an effort to "get them up to breeding size" (what does that mean anyway?) "condition them for breeding", etc.

Keepers need to understand that feeding large meals all the time is bad for your animals... the same way it would be bad for a human if we were to eat like we do on thanksgiving or Christmas every time we sit down to eat.

Not only the over load of fat content that most of these animals don't get in the wild but also, the over working of the digestive system is taxing on these animals and the constant stretching of the stomach and pressure on the internal organs as these large meals are digested.....just not good for any animal consistently over a period of time.

Smaller meals more often is the way to go for all captives.

Cheers,
D

[xSerpentGoddess]

Awesome thanks. How often do you feed your adults? bi-weekly ?

[xSerpentGoddess]

I have also read you can give them fish and birds. Is that good for them?

[Derek Roddy]

Yes, I've been feeding fish to my BHPs for 10 years. They get rodents and well as chicken and other reptiles (when available).
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v321/derekroddy/derekroddy010/isaeatsfish.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/derekroddy/media/derekroddy010/isaeatsfish.jpg.html)

Unfortunately, if a female BHPs has been overfed, there is no use trying to change the diet to "get her lean", etc.
Overfed female BHPs are Moot.... And, will most likely never breed or produced viable eggs that will go the full incubation period.

Cheers,
D

[xSerpentGoddess]

Great picture.

thanks for the advice. I was told by a mutual friend that they were overweight but their is no real proof. We will see. It appears one of the females is already gravid and there has been a lot of action between the male and the other female. I have heard that some males can be monogamous but this one isn't.

How often do you feed and what kind of fish do you prefer?

[Derek Roddy]

Great picture.

thanks for the advice.

No Worries

I was told by a mutual friend that they were overweight but their is no real proof. We will see.

Who produced them, where did you get them and what's their history?

If they've produced eggs and viable hatchlings before....the female are fine. If not, if there has been slugs, or eggs that didn't hatch....they're not. Overfed adults will not produce nor will there eggs hatch.



It appears one of the females is already gravid and there has been a lot of action between the male and the other female.

Good luck....BHP are very easy species to keep and breed....as long as they were raised and fed properly.

I have heard that some males can be monogamous but this one isn't.

Yes, they can...some females as well.

How often do you feed and what kind of fish do you prefer?

I feed my adult BHPs every 4 days small rats. they may also during the week get a fish (anything flash frozen) or piece of chicken (store bought legs minus skin) or...........
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v321/derekroddy/derekroddy011/BHPeatingball.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/derekroddy/media/derekroddy011/BHPeatingball.jpg.html)

Their favorite! Haha.

[RyanReptile]

Large rats kill BHPs....period. Or at very least, renders them useless for breeding.

The fat content in older rodents is the culprit. BHPs eat other reptiles in the wild (Esp, in the WA region) and, they just can't take the oversized meals in an effort to "get them up to breeding size" (what does that mean anyway?) "condition them for breeding", etc.

Keepers need to understand that feeding large meals all the time is bad for your animals... the same way it would be bad for a human if we were to eat like we do on thanksgiving or Christmas every time we sit down to eat.

Not only the over load of fat content that most of these animals don't get in the wild but also, the over working of the digestive system is taxing on these animals and the constant stretching of the stomach and pressure on the internal organs as these large meals are digested.....just not good for any animal consistently over a period of time.

Smaller meals more often is the way to go for all captives.

Cheers,
D

Very interesting, are womas just as susceptible to being over weight and slugging out?

[xSerpentGoddess]

Mark Bell produced the male and one of the females out of Florida. The second female was produced by Dan Malone somewhere around Grand Rapids. Brad Boa raised them to adulthood. I've had them about 3 weeks now.

The feeding info really helps. That's a really cheap to feed snake for its size. I cant believe more people aren't working with them.

The second girl seemed extremely round yesterday. It's just the waiting game at this point.

[Derek Roddy]

Very interesting, are womas just as susceptible to being over weight and slugging out?

All snakes are susceptible to reproductive problems when overfed.

Snake eaters seem to have more of a problem though.

As far as Womas being just as susceptible......sure.

But, I think a lot of the overfeeding of BHPs has special interest with keepers because they are still expensive snakes and keepers are eager to grow them quickly to breed them to recoup their money.
Plus, there is a mis conception that BHP are 8 to 10 animals that need big sources of food to get them to that.... where in reality, BHPs aren't really that big in the wild (sure I've documented some long BHPs but, none of those animals were as fat as the animals of the same length in captivity.)

A 7 foot BHP in the wild has the girth of a 4 foot captive.

With Womas....if you remember when they first came onto the market...it took awhile for keepers to grasp the concept of breeding them. I think it was because again keepers were eager to get their 15,000 back and pushed them too quickly and, there wasn't much success with them.

Over time and because Womas are a smaller animal, keepers leveled out their feeding because it doesn't take much to grow a Woma to 5 feet. It takes a lot to grow a BHP to 9 feet because they simply don't get that big on average but, all the info about BHPs in books, etc have them listed as these big snakes......and, they simply aren't supposed to be.

Average size of a wild BHPs is just over 6 feet.

D

D

[Derek Roddy]

Mark Bell produced the male and one of the females out of Florida. The second female was produced by Dan Malone somewhere around Grand Rapids. Brad Boa raised them to adulthood. I've had them about 3 weeks now.

The feeding info really helps. That's a really cheap to feed snake for its size. I cant believe more people aren't working with them.

The second girl seemed extremely round yesterday. It's just the waiting game at this point.


Oh yes, I remember now. Those were Brads animals.

I really hope you didn't spend any money on those animals?

I spoke to Brad several weeks ago (he had spoken to me several years ago about buying some animals. I told him not to buy adult animals because of the issues with other keepers raising them.)
I had told him that if he wanted to have success with the species to buy babies and raise them up slowly.
Last conversation I had with him was "checks in the mail".

Check never showed and brad never called again. About 2 years later he sent me an email asking why his female laid slugs. I asked him all the questions......the biggest one being why didn't you buy babies?

He said he got a "good deal" and figured they would do fine. Well, he never produced anything from those animals.

I also know that he did overfed his animals (I have pictures of him doing it).

Just a few weeks ago he mailed and asked me "what he should sell them for"....... I told him that I wouldn't sell them (because of the above reasons) and that he should just donate them to a reptile park, etc as you would be selling dud animals to someone and, that's just wrong to do (IMO).

I hope he did the right thing.


D

[xSerpentGoddess]

Oh geez... For starters we were told he raised them. I'll definitely look into that. Technically they're my friend/boss's trio. He is making payments for around $5k... I don't know if he's started making them or not. I suppose we will probably see what comes of these seemingly gravid females and go from there...

[Derek Roddy]

Oh geez... For starters we were told he raised them. I'll definitely look into that. Technically they're my friend/boss's trio. He is making payments for around $5k... I don't know if he's started making them or not. I suppose we will probably see what comes of these seemingly gravid females and go from there...


If I remember my time line correctly, I believe they were yearlings or young adults when he got them. Doesn't matter anyway, if he was feeding them like he was in the pictures on Bush League the whole time he had them ( and the way he told me he was feeding them a few weeks ago on the phone), then you'll have a very difficult time trying to get or hatch eggs.

Tell your boss if he wants to have success with BHPs.....buy babies and raise em up.
They're indestructible and very easy to breed, hatch, etc if they're fed right.

Cheers,
D

[Derek Roddy]

I should also say that babies that aren't started right away feeding.....will have issues as adults as well.

That's where most people who don't work with a lot of BHPs mess up too. Most keepers will "wait them out" on them starting feeding. This is very bad for them as they will NOT eat rodents out of the egg. Most keepers will believe that they can get them going with a little time and these babies will go sometimes several months before these keepers figure out that they aren't going to eat.

This is another reason to buy BHPs from keepers who truly understand their dynamic.

D

[xSerpentGoddess]

That's really good to know, What do you start yours on? feeder lizards?

Were going to wait out these ones for a few and see what happens. If not at some point I want my own group either way.

[Derek Roddy]

I start em on pinkies. You have to assist feed them for a few months before they start on their own.

D

[xSerpentGoddess]

ohhh. I thought you meant you start them on lizards lol. Do you ever give them lizards?

[Derek Roddy]

Over the years I've tried everything to get em going. The only thing that works is assist feeding. Otherwise they'll simply die.

D