Need to relax!!!!

[RideOrDieB]

I hate feeding time. I get so stressed I feel bad for my python. Feeding live mice, trying to relax but everytime gets harder. On the bright side, I've had her almost 2 years and have never had trouble with her eating. Also I realize captive snakes are not in their natural habit therefore more an more choose to feed F/T, and it is a safer route for the snake (if i chose to feed rats i most certainly would feed f/t) but I choose not to as Penelope deserves a taste of being a wild girl lol. I'm just hoping that the next 15-20 years plus of feeding her isn't horrible every time :-( any suggestions would be much appreciated!!!

[pdomensis]

Penelope deserves a taste of being a wild girl

Just as long as you accept that being a wild girl comes with risks it's no big deal.

[Aaron_S]

I hate feeding time. I get so stressed I feel bad for my python. Feeding live mice, trying to relax but everytime gets harder. On the bright side, I've had her almost 2 years and have never had trouble with her eating. Also I realize captive snakes are not in their natural habit therefore more an more choose to feed F/T, and it is a safer route for the snake (if i chose to feed rats i most certainly would feed f/t) but I choose not to as Penelope deserves a taste of being a wild girl lol. I'm just hoping that the next 15-20 years plus of feeding her isn't horrible every time :-( any suggestions would be much appreciated!!!

Suggestions?

1. Don't feed mice to a snake that should be on rats. The babies that hatch here are fed rats by their 3rd feeding.

2. Mice have a far greater chance of attacking your animal than rats do. Bigger doesn't necessarily mean "badder".

3. It's a snake in captivity. Treat it like one. It doesn't care for a "taste" of the wild by using live prey because the snake doesn't have the capacity to think on that level.

If you wish to feed it live just know it's for your own reasons not for the snake on any level.

4. Want to be stress free? Stop feeding live. BOOM! Solved.

[Jim Smith]

It's obvious that you love your snake, but considering that it is living in its cage with fecal matter and urates as well as whatever the live mice bring in, I'm not sure that putting your snake up to your lips is such a good idea. That's actually a good way to contract Salmonella or some other rather unpleasant disease. That's the reason its recommended that you wash your hands after you handle your snake, lizard or other reptile. I'm pretty sure that contracting Salmonella would not be too relaxing. Just a thought...

[Starbuck]

I rarely wash my hands after handling my snakes, unless im working with my kings who are hunger monsters or my new snake in quarantine. A healthy well maintained snake is no more of a salmonella risk than preparing chicken for dinner, and unless you are immune compromised you are not doing yourself any favors by trying to live in a bubble.

Washing your hands is jot going to hurt you or the snake, but there is jk o need to villainize reptiles. The myth of salmonella from herps is largely a result of the little turtle kits they sold in the 70s, with baby turtles in poor husbandry, harboring lots of bad bacteria, and smalkids putting their gross hands in their mouths.

[Hurrok]

As long as she is feeding well and keep an eye while feeding you shouldn't have to worry too much. I have two BPs that won't take anything but live rats so they continue to be fed on live. However I do feel a little nervous feeding medium-large rats since they seem more aggressive compared to the younger ones.

You may come across her stop eating especially during the breeding months, and you can try and switch her to F/T then, she'll get hungry enough to take one eventually! :) As long a she holds a healthy weight she's fine.

I give kisses to my snakes all the time too, I can't resist their cuteness!

[KORBIN5895]

You should read this.
http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/food-thought-forum/103798-another-preventable-tragedy-live-feeding.html

[kwhitlock]

Welcome to the forum fellow michiganinian! :)

I would also go for switching over to f/t rats as soon as possible. Gives your snake a much better diet as rats are much more nutritional! :)

Good luck!

[RideOrDieB]

I dont see live mice as a threat! I don't believe that feeding mice is dangerous for my snake otherwise I wouldn't do it. Some people disagree and are
Entitled to that. The reason I do not feed her live
rats (which has been recommended by quite a few) is bc I consider them very intelligent, but if others are more experienced or would rather choose this route more power to em. I realize there are pros and cons to f/t as well as live... And many have very strong opinions. My concern wasnt her safety and the mice, but my stress affecting her stress from killing the mice- but I do think that's the way of life and gives Penelope a natural sense on her captive life. She came to me eating live mice and has never had anything else.

As for the kissing I don't kiss her right after she kills and I'm not worried about it, there are appropriate times to wash your hands use common sense... Lol but I don't find it necessary everytime I pick her up. Yes some bacteria is good to be exposed to anyway.

But thanks for all the input :-)

[Aaron_S]

I dont see live mice as a threat! I don't believe that feeding mice is dangerous for my snake otherwise I wouldn't do it. Some people disagree and are
Entitled to that. The reason I do not feed her live
rats (which has been recommended by quite a few) is bc I consider them very intelligent, but if others are more experienced or would rather choose this route more power to em. I realize there are pros and cons to f/t as well as live... And many have very strong opinions. My concern wasnt her safety and the mice, but my stress affecting her stress from killing the mice- but I do think that's the way of life and gives Penelope a natural sense on her captive life. She came to me eating live mice and has never had anything else.

As for the kissing I don't kiss her right after she kills and I'm not worried about it, there are appropriate times to wash your hands use common sense... Lol but I don't find it necessary everytime I pick her up. Yes some bacteria is good to be exposed to anyway.

But thanks for all the input :-)

Why don't you see live mice as a threat? Considering there's pics and stories that say otherwise?

Again, you want stress relief? Stop feeding live. Problem solved.

Also again, your snake doesn't have any sense of natural life. It was born in captivity. What does it know about the wild? It has a "human" kiss it? How is that any kind of natural sense?

To be honest, you seemed to have ignored every bit of advice I gave because it goes against what you want to do.

[LiL Zap]

I rarely wash my hands after handling my snakes, unless im working with my kings who are hunger monsters or my new snake in quarantine. A healthy well maintained snake is no more of a salmonella risk than preparing chicken for dinner, and unless you are immune compromised you are not doing yourself any favors by trying to live in a bubble.

Washing your hands is jot going to hurt you or the snake, but there is jk o need to villainize reptiles. The myth of salmonella from herps is largely a result of the little turtle kits they sold in the 70s, with baby turtles in poor husbandry, harboring lots of bad bacteria, and smalkids putting their gross hands in their mouths.
Great response and I totally agree. Salmonella is transmitted in many ways (and very rarely with reptiles). You have a greater chance of contracting it with dogs and cats than you do a reptile.

[RideOrDieB]

I do see what you are saying and I'm not trying ignore what you say, but let you know where I'm coming from... I was directing my question geared towards something else and we obviously differ on the subject of feeding live mice safety Just as many passionately differ on how often to feed your snake. I guess what I mean is I would be almost as stressed out feeding her f/t as I am live. And I can deal with my stress and move on after, I'm worried it will effect her at some point tho. Weird I know...

[Aaron_S]

I do see what you are saying and I'm not trying ignore what you say, but let you know where I'm coming from... I was directing my question geared towards something else and we obviously differ on the subject of feeding live mice safety Just as many passionately differ on how often to feed your snake. I guess what I mean is I would be almost as stressed out feeding her f/t as I am live. And I can deal with my stress and move on after, I'm worried it will effect her at some point tho. Weird I know...

If you're so stressed feeding this animal then why do you own it? Maybe it's just not meant for you. Would you feel as stressed feeding fish to a snake? How about crickets? Honest questions. Maybe you just don't have the correct species.

As I stated, your snake has no sense of anything so I don't understand where your stress plays a part in it's feeding response.

Lastly, I have never seen people "passionately differ on how often to feed your snake". It's pretty standard with minor deviations based on some specifics.

I know where you're coming from and that's why I asked my questions and made my statements. You wanted to express how you see your snake and how you do things but are not really open to suggestions.

[psychocircus]

I do see what you are saying and I'm not trying ignore what you say, but let you know where I'm coming from... I was directing my question geared towards something else and we obviously differ on the subject of feeding live mice safety Just as many passionately differ on how often to feed your snake. I guess what I mean is I would be almost as stressed out feeding her f/t as I am live. And I can deal with my stress and move on after, I'm worried it will effect her at some point tho. Weird I know...

You are going off of only feelings and not evidence. Your snake doesn't feel "more wild" for eating live.
Frozen thawed rats are the best choice for a BP for multiple reasons.
If it is concern for the snake, use F/T rats
If it is concern for the rodent. use F/T rats

[LiL Zap]

There's nothing wrong with feeding live but there are more risks involved. Don't underestimate a small rodent, fear and adrenaline can do alot to them and snakes have been killed or seriously injured by their prey before.

I also agree with some of the other members in the fact that you should feed your BP rats instead. Mice aren't a terrible thing but rats have alot more protein and calcium which is more healthier for your BP which looks like it's a pretty nice size already.

I kinda went off topic lol but pretty much if you decide to keep feeding live, supervise all feedings.

[poison123]

Can somebody explain to me why small rats are better then adult mice?

I always considered adult mice to be the better option do to their more mature bone development compared to that of a baby rat of the same size.

[Aaron_S]

Can somebody explain to me why small rats are better then adult mice?

I always considered adult mice to be the better option do to their more mature bone development compared to that of a baby rat of the same size.

It depends on what you're feeding.

For me, a single small adult rat is much easier then feeding a snake multiple mice.

It's as much a convinence for me as it is healthy for them.

Furthermore, not all snakes will eat multiple prey items in one sitting so you have that to possibly contend with as well.

[RideOrDieB]

I have my own opinions. Just bc someone espresses the way they feel does not mean they are closed to other options or suggestions, as I did post this bc I needed it “Your life does not get better by chance, it gets better by change.” –Jim Rohn - It's the rude snappy comments like "why do u have a snake if u have an issue feeding it" hmmmm do u quit something everytime u have an issue? That's messed up!!!! And that's amongst other rude comments. Obviously what I'm doing can't be that horrible as my snake is a thriving healthy snake. I'd like to improve something that is not a do or GET RID OF HER situation that's why my emotions are coming in.


Btw I am new to all of this can anyone tell me how everyone is replying to certain people? With their statement in their reply?

Thanks again for all the constructive critism and suggestions :-)))

[valid]

The comments here have actually been pretty tame compared to what the could be/have been in the past given the subject matter.

Fighting is not going to help your case especially when the ground you stand on is unfounded, and the ground they stand on is proven.

I would suggest not feeding live as most other already have, but you have already made up your mind that what you are doing is ok, and I am not sure exactly what you are wanting us to offer.

GL with your snake.

[kwhitlock]

I have my own opinions. Just bc someone espresses the way they feel does not mean they are closed to other options or suggestions, as I did post this bc I needed it “Your life does not get better by chance, it gets better by change.” –Jim Rohn - It's the rude snappy comments like "why do u have a snake if u have an issue feeding it" hmmmm do u quit something everytime u have an issue? That's messed up!!!! And that's amongst other rude comments. Obviously what I'm doing can't be that horrible as my snake is a thriving healthy snake. I'd like to improve something that is not a do or GET RID OF HER situation that's why my emotions are coming in.


Btw I am new to all of this can anyone tell me how everyone is replying to certain people? With their statement in their reply?

Thanks again for all the constructive critism and suggestions :-)))

Easiest way, is the just hit the quote button! :)

[Aaron_S]

I have my own opinions. Just bc someone espresses the way they feel does not mean they are closed to other options or suggestions, as I did post this bc I needed it “Your life does not get better by chance, it gets better by change.” –Jim Rohn - It's the rude snappy comments like "why do u have a snake if u have an issue feeding it" hmmmm do u quit something everytime u have an issue? That's messed up!!!! And that's amongst other rude comments. Obviously what I'm doing can't be that horrible as my snake is a thriving healthy snake. I'd like to improve something that is not a do or GET RID OF HER situation that's why my emotions are coming in.


Btw I am new to all of this can anyone tell me how everyone is replying to certain people? With their statement in their reply?

Thanks again for all the constructive critism and suggestions :-)))

You ask to get better and want to improve but when given facts on what you're currently doing is a risk to your snakes health you simply state YOU FEEL you're doing just fine.
Why ask if you're not going to take hard facts? I also asked why you feel mice are NOT a threat but you never gave me an answer.

I made a suggestion that maybe this isn't the right pet for you. Not everything is right for everyone just because they want something.

Do you think a pony is right for every little girl who wanted one? No. I doubt it.

You're welcome to express your opinions but don't ask for suggestions at the same time if you're not actually open to them. How do I know this? Facts and pictures are given to you and you still say they aren't right.

[RideOrDieB]

Easiest way, is the just hit the quote button! :)

Ahhhh thank u :-) for that and the MI welcome :-)

[Jinxygirl]

I don't understand... what is it exactly that is making you so stressed? Maybe I misunderstood your posts, I'm not really sure. I am also on team F/T though. It's just way less risky. A rodent can do your snake damage in a split second (like damage it's eyes) or bite and you won't even have time to pull them apart before some harm is inflicted.

[RideOrDieB]

The comments here have actually been pretty tame compared to what the could be/have been in the past given the subject matter.

Fighting is not going to help your case especially when the ground you stand on is unfounded, and the ground they stand on is proven.

I would suggest not feeding live as most other already have, but you have already made up your mind that what you are doing is ok, and I am not sure exactly what you are wanting us to offer.

GL with your snake.

I am sorry tho I feel like I am focusing on the negative. I do appreciate the constructive input and well wishes :-D

[EL Ziggy]

Welcome and best wishes RODB. I feed all my snakes f/t but I've had to feed live before too. I prefer f/t because I don't like the mouse to suffer and there's no risk of injury for the snake. I'm originally from MI and have been to K-Zoo on a few occasions. Hope you enjoy the forum.

[RideOrDieB]

You ask to get better and want to improve but when given facts on what you're currently doing is a risk to your snakes health you simply state YOU FEEL you're doing just fine.
Why ask if you're not going to take hard facts? I also asked why you feel mice are NOT a threat but you never gave me an answer.

I made a suggestion that maybe this isn't the right pet for you. Not everything is right for everyone just because they want something.

Do you think a pony is right for every little girl who wanted one? No. I doubt it.

You're welcome to express your opinions but don't ask for suggestions at the same time if you're not actually open to them. How do I know this? Facts and pictures are given to you and you still say they aren't right.

Not every pony is right for every little girl BUT there is a right pony for every little girl. I just want the best for my girl. Your very discouraging and NOT ENCOURAGING.
"

[Aaron_S]

Not every pony is right for every little girl BUT there is a right pony for every little girl. I just want the best for my girl. Your very discouraging and NOT ENCOURAGING.
"

I don't have to encourage you to keep doing something that may not be in the animal's best interest now do I?

I simply am saying maybe this isn't the right pony for you and there's no harm in that.

It's why I asked about other prey items like fish and crickets. There are snakes that eat both of those so why am I discouraging when I am trying to help you with your stress issue? You say you're stressed feeding mice so I suggest another species of snake that eats something else? How is that discouraging? Because it's not what you're wanting to hear?

[RideOrDieB]

*******I have not been able to keep up with all of these some with pics websites n videos I'm not tech savvy n IAlso I have not been able to keep up with all of these some with pics websites n videos I'm not tech savvy n I'm on my own so sorry if I'm disregarding anyone and their info but I am looking at it all as I go none will be ignored!!!!!Also I have not been able to keep up with all of these some with pics websites n videos I'm not tech savvy n I'm on my own so sorry if I'm disregarding anyone and their info but u am looking at it all as I go none will be ignored!!!!!


This is for the benefit of my BP.

[Sharlynn93]

I have fed live and f/t mice...have seen scary things even with the mice...got off lucky on a few occasions...i still won't feed a live rat (other than a pinky or fuzzy) just because they are bigger and stronger...glad all mine take f/t now...I breed my rodents, but still try not to feed live unless I have to...I DO get attached to my rodents, but I have to make myself realize it is the circle of life...I would rather them die humanely than watch a snake strangle them to death..

[RideOrDieB]

Welcome and best wishes RODB. I feed all my snakes f/t but I've had to feed live before too. I prefer f/t because I don't like the mouse to suffer and there's no risk of injury for the snake. I'm originally from MI and have been to K-Zoo on a few occasions. Hope you enjoy the forum.

So it did help your mindset feeding f/t? Bc I have never tried it my mindset tells me it would be almost as disturbing/stressful. But I do not know as I have never tried but if it is less stressful for me (as my snake can be effected by) AND safer I'd be willing to give it a go :-P

Gotta love the zoo! :-D

[RideOrDieB]

I have fed live and f/t mice...have seen scary things even with the mice...got off lucky on a few occasions...i still won't feed a live rat (other than a pinky or fuzzy) just because they are bigger and stronger...glad all mine take f/t now...I breed my rodents, but still try not to feed live unless I have to...I DO get attached to my rodents, but I have to make myself realize it is the circle of life...I would rather them die humanely than watch a snake strangle them to death..

All I have to say is INSPIRING!!! Thank you!!!!

[Sharlynn93]

So it did help your mindset feeding f/t? Bc I have never tried it my mindset tells me it would be almost as disturbing/stressful. But I do not know as I have never tried but if it is less stressful for me (as my snake can be effected by) AND safer I'd be willing to give it a go :-P

Gotta love the zoo! :-D

not directed towards me, but I have to say I definitely have a better mindset on f/t...once they grab it, I walk away and move to the next as opposed to hovering over their cage to make sure they aren't bitten, scratched, etc...less stress to them from me hovering, too....and knowing the rodent isn't suffering is comforting also....

your post came through before i posted this post :D

[Jinxygirl]

If being sad about the rodent is what is stressing you out then you should switch to f/t. I am an animal fanatic and have kept many mice and rats as pets since I was a child and I would probably cry feeding live... But I don't feel any sadness feeding f/t. The animal is dead so it will not be feeling any pain or squeaking while your snake is constricting and consuming it.

[Sharlynn93]

If being sad about the rodent is what is stressing you out then you should switch to f/t. I am an animal fanatic and have kept many mice and rats as pets since I was a child and I would probably cry feeding live... But I don't feel any sadness feeding f/t. The animal is dead so it will not be feeling any pain or squeaking while your snake is constricting and consuming it.
exactly! I have mice and rats that are pets...they breed my feeders...have had rodents since i was 7 yrs old...f/t are the way to go....

[RideOrDieB]

I don't have to encourage you to keep doing something that may not be in the animal's best interest now do I?

I simply am saying maybe this isn't the right pony for you and there's no harm in that.

It's why I asked about other prey items like fish and crickets. There are snakes that eat both of those so why am I discouraging when I am trying to help you with your stress issue? You say you're stressed feeding mice so I suggest another species of snake that eats something else? How is that discouraging? Because it's not what you're wanting to hear?

No your right you don't have to encourage me... As well as I may have been a little over sensitive... Please understand I love my girl and would do whatever it takes for her to be happy and healthy, hearing you suggest other reptile options which insinuates getting rid of my snake- is hurtful. YES there are circumstances where people should not have certain Animals or an animal is in a bad place etc.... May not be what I want to hear... Which it appears there is no coping with feeding ...do or get over it... But I would find a better home for her if I couldn't provide BUT I can.

Oversensitive.... I'm sorry!

[RideOrDieB]

If being sad about the rodent is what is stressing you out then you should switch to f/t. I am an animal fanatic and have kept many mice and rats as pets since I was a child and I would probably cry feeding live... But I don't feel any sadness feeding f/t. The animal is dead so it will not be feeling any pain or squeaking while your snake is constricting and consuming it.

Ahhhhhh spot on.... I am a vegetarian (off topic I know) but not bc ppl shouldn't eat meat but the way it's done. Shouldn't a mouse die a natural life not by euthanasia? But then their death in captivity isn't natural.... But doesn't it give them some sense? Even the mouse who is killed unnaturally anyway?l

[Jinxygirl]

Ahhhhhh spot on.... I am a vegetarian (off topic I know) but not bc ppl shouldn't eat meat but the way it's done. Shouldn't a mouse die a natural life not by euthanasia? But then their death in captivity isn't natural.... But doesn't it give them some sense? Even the mouse who is killed unnaturally anyway?l

I just think about it this way.. the mouse is going to die either way. I would rather it not feel any pain than have it be squeezed to death. Also.. they are going to be killing mice and rats for f/t feedings whether you decide to feed your snake that way or not.. so might as well put some dead animals to good use.

[Sharlynn93]

in nature the rodent can get away if necessary...(or the snake)...putting the 2 together in a small enclosure is forcing the 2 creatures into an unnatural environment...1 will fight for its life...if your snake isn't hungry, he/she loses...check out the thread Korbin posted earlier...scary stuff! I reiterate, I only feed live if i HAVE to...I love my rodents as much as my snakes, but pick your "pets"...

[KORBIN5895]

First off the feels **** just got way too deep in this thread.

Secondly I peed in the Kalamazoo river once.

Finally this is why live is so sketchy.

http://i.imgur.com/sEae3MZ.jpg

once again, someone leaves a rat in with a BP overnight......

grabbed this off facebook just now

Click the arrow next to the name infernalis redirect to the thread.

[Sharlynn93]

perfect example..we had a scare once with our BRB...thought he had gotten bit...thank goodness it was the mouse's tongue we were seeing...never again...we euthanize beforehand now...much safer! even a bite is scary...this ^ is beyond comprehension! :(

[RideOrDieB]

First off the feels **** just got way too deep in this thread.

Secondly I peed in the Kalamazoo river once.

Finally this is why live is so sketchy.



Click the arrow next to the name infernalis redirect to the thread.

This is tragic.

With that said I am left unconvinced a mouse could do this as I expresses why I don't feed rats they are SO smart. Btw I did see this posted earlier n meant to look at it... I do see there is still a risk in a mouse harming a snake!!! That is where I am in the grey area catch 22 unsure but of course want the best!!!!

[Sharlynn93]

This is tragic.

With that said I am left unconvinced a mouse could do this as I expresses why I don't feed rats they are SO smart. Btw I did see this posted earlier n meant to look at it... I do see there is still a risk in a mouse harming a snake!!! That is where I am in the grey area catch 22 unsure but of course want the best!!!!
never underestimate a mouse...I have had mice totally cannibalize a tank of other mice...if a snake is uninterested in eating, and tries to ignore it, it will munch on it...just saying...I have had mice (my first pet) since i was a wee kid...they will eat anything...rats ARE smarter...they tend to shy away from what could eat it...mice are stupid...will walk right up to their faces and munch away...

[KORBIN5895]

This is tragic.

With that said I am left unconvinced a mouse could do this as I expresses why I don't feed rats they are SO smart. Btw I did see this posted earlier n meant to look at it... I do see there is still a risk in a mouse harming a snake!!! That is where I am in the grey area catch 22 unsure but of course want the best!!!!

I had ten mice in an 8"W•15"L•4"H for one hour without food while i transported them to a friends house. This is two of them. One had a a piece of its hind leg eaten.

http://s22.postimg.org/fgjwup4l9/IMG_20130613_170615.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/fgjwup4l9/)
http://s21.postimg.org/aeeize3mb/IMG_20130613_170619.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/aeeize3mb/)

Mice are a much greater threat than a rat ever will be.

[RideOrDieB]

never underestimate a mouse...I have had mice totally cannibalize a tank of other mice...if a snake is uninterested in eating, and tries to ignore it, it will munch on it...just saying...I have had mice (my first pet) since i was a wee kid...they will eat anything...rats ARE smarter...they tend to shy away from what could eat it...mice are stupid...will walk right up to their faces and munch away...

Yes I do see that happening, would anyone feeding live mice let that happen??? I am always right there the entire time, if my girl didnt move long enpough for a mouse to nibble on her, i just dont see it. Grrrrr I know I'm seeming like a rude skeptic I will research more...
And I do see damaging the eyes could be an issue but wouldn't that be a freak accident? As well as any damage from a mouse?

[Sharlynn93]

I always sat my mine too..2 to 3 minutes and i would take them out...BUT a mouse can turn in a half a second and bite...I have been bitten by rodents that seemed docile just a second before...I personally do not want to take that chance with my babies...risk of infection, etc is to high...I love my rodents, but my snakes are worth more to me than they are...just my opinion and observations, mind you...

[RideOrDieB]

I had ten mice in an 8"W•15"L•4"H for one hour without food while i transported them to a friends house. This is two of them. One had a a piece of its hind leg eaten.

http://s22.postimg.org/fgjwup4l9/IMG_20130613_170615.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/fgjwup4l9/)
http://s21.postimg.org/aeeize3mb/IMG_20130613_170619.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/aeeize3mb/)

Mice are a much greater threat than a rat ever will be.

This has been one of my arguments to myself as I'm feeding her... They are dumb. Circle of life. Are there many circumstances of a snake getting injured by a mouse?? This really is something I ignorantly view as rare and circumstantial. This is legit what I was taught by the people when I got Penelope (not saying they are right) this is what I know.

[RideOrDieB]

I always sat my mine too..2 to 3 minutes and i would take them out...BUT a mouse can turn in a half a second and bite...I have been bitten by rodents that seemed docile just a second before...I personally do not want to take that chance with my babies...risk of infection, etc is to high...I love my rodents, but my snakes are worth more to me than they are...just my opinion and observations, mind you...

I don't trust a rodent... But obviously I have trusted my snake with it. Altho yes with the intention of intervening if an incident. Whew with the way I am already stressed at the beginning of feeding is that realistic?! Something I'm coming to terms with... Yet I do want to believe my mama bear instincts would kick in and I'd save her quickly :-O

[Sharlynn93]

I was the same way... :) figured let nature take its course.. (most of my snakes had never taken f/t when I got them, and I figured less waste if they didn't eat them, take them out and let them live another week)...until the 1st time my snake didnt catch one by the head...and it was able to bite and/or scratch the snake...no way to get the rodent out of a kill coil...damage is done at that point...just a point to ponder...

[KORBIN5895]

Yes I do see that happening, would anyone feeding live mice let that happen??? I am always right there the entire time, if my girl didnt move long enpough for a mouse to nibble on her, i just dont see it. Grrrrr I know I'm seeming like a rude skeptic I will research more...
And I do see damaging the eyes could be an issue but wouldn't that be a freak accident? As well as any damage from a mouse?

I have a female boa that has had both eyes damaged by rodent bites. Two separate feedings before I got her.

I always sat my mine too..2 to 3 minutes and i would take them out...BUT a mouse can turn in a half a second and bite...I have been bitten by rodents that seemed docile just a second before...I personally do not want to take that chance with my babies...risk of infection, etc is to high...I love my rodents, but my snakes are worth more to me than they are...just my opinion and observations, mind you...
There is no way I would reach in for a rodent my snakes aren't interested in.....

[cbrierley74016]

Its actually illegal here in the UK to feed your snake live food.. wether it be rats, birds, lizards.. we have to buy pre frozen mice/rats and defrost them.. !

[Lankyrob]

Its actually illegal here in the UK to feed your snake live food.. wether it be rats, birds, lizards.. we have to buy pre frozen mice/rats and defrost them.. !

Not technically true...... Whilst heavily frowned upon if you have a preadatory animal that you can prove wont take f/t then in order to keep that predator alive you are allowed to "humanely feed live prey".

If you are deemed to be causing unnecesary suffering to the feeder animals then that is illegal.

[cbrierley74016]

Hmmm i dont think.. i know like bugs, crickets and stuff 4 lizards is alllowed, but not verterbrate like mice and rats :-0

[Lankyrob]

Hmmm i dont think.. i know like bugs, crickets and stuff 4 lizards is alllowed, but not verterbrate like mice and rats :-0

Can guarantee that i am right, will even try to look up the specific documents for you.............

[cbrierley74016]

Seems unfair allowing the lizards to have all the fun with their live food lol but at least their live meals cant cause them no harm ( like a rat and snake ) but illegal or not, ill be giving it a try like most ppl if the pre-dead rats stop getting eaten! Rather a scrawny rat die than my snake starve :-/

[Lankyrob]

Copied fro government documentation explaining the welfare of wild animals kept in a zoo environment


1.6 Live feeding of vertebrate prey is to be discouraged (see Section 5). Although the Animal Welfare Act 2006 does not prohibit the feeding of animals with live prey, the live feeding of vertebrate prey should be avoided save under exceptional circumstances, and only under veterinary advice. Where it has to be undertaken, a written justification and ethical review process must have been undertaken and agreed by senior staff weighing up the welfare of predator and prey; feeding must be observed and live prey not left in the enclosure. Such feeding should not take place in the presence of the public.

Copied from animal welfare act

PROSPECTIVE

4Unnecessary suffering

(1)A person commits an offence if—
(a)an act of his, or a failure of his to act, causes an animal to suffer,
(b)he knew, or ought reasonably to have known, that the act, or failure to act, would have that effect or be likely to do so,
(c)the animal is a protected animal, and
(d)the suffering is unnecessary.
(2)A person commits an offence if—
(a)he is responsible for an animal,
(b)an act, or failure to act, of another person causes the animal to suffer,
(c)he permitted that to happen or failed to take such steps (whether by way of supervising the other person or otherwise) as were reasonable in all the circumstances to prevent that happening, and
(d)the suffering is unnecessary.
(3)The considerations to which it is relevant to have regard when determining for the purposes of this section whether suffering is unnecessary include—
(a)whether the suffering could reasonably have been avoided or reduced;
(b)whether the conduct which caused the suffering was in compliance with any relevant enactment or any relevant provisions of a licence or code of practice issued under an enactment;
(c)whether the conduct which caused the suffering was for a legitimate purpose, such as—
(i)the purpose of benefiting the animal, or
(ii)the purpose of protecting a person, property or another animal;
(d)whether the suffering was proportionate to the purpose of the conduct concerned;
(e)whether the conduct concerned was in all the circumstances that of a reasonably competent and humane person.
(4)Nothing in this section applies to the destruction of an animal in an appropriate and humane manner.

[Lankyrob]

Double post

[cbrierley74016]

So it is allowed but not just if its what u decide, under vetinary advise..? So they'd have to observe and authenticate your pet will NOT eat dead food b4 you'd be allowed to try live food.. like when its half dead from starvation already :(

[Lankyrob]

So it is allowed but not just if its what u decide, under vetinary advise..? So they'd have to observe and authenticate your pet will NOT eat dead food b4 you'd be allowed to try live food.. like when its half dead from starvation already :(

Pretty much, tho hopefully you wouldnt wait til your snake is half dead before gtting vetenary advise ;)

[KORBIN5895]

Seems unfair allowing the lizards to have all the fun with their live food lol but at least their live meals cant cause them no harm ( like a rat and snake ) but illegal or not, ill be giving it a try like most ppl if the pre-dead rats stop getting eaten! Rather a scrawny rat die than my snake starve :-/

Are you joking about that first line?

[Sublimeballs]

Mice can be dangerous, I'm not sure why youre doing your best to not believe everyone that's giving you good information.

If its the death of the rodent that stresses you, feed FT(dont have to watch it die) it's a lot more simple then you are making it.

You can go ahead and forget your romantic idea of giving these animals a taste of what is "Natural". A mouse is not going to be happier being constricted to death over its spine being broken, or gasses to death; either way it sucks!

If you really want to do good by your ball python, i suggest you stop feeding live the risk is unessicary. Start feeding FT rats(lower fat, higher protein, more calcium), I cant image there'd be a difference in price compared to multiple mice a feeding.

[Mikoh4792]

RideorDieB what do you mean by this statement?

My concern wasnt her safety and the mice, my stress affecting her stress from killing the mice

How would your stress affect the snake's stress?

[Aaron_S]

Seems unfair allowing the lizards to have all the fun with their live food lol but at least their live meals cant cause them no harm ...

This is wrong.

Crickets are known to chew on lizards. They literally eat anything so if there's no food in the enclosure they may resort to eating at the lizard.

If they are in long enough then it could cause stress issues or actual health issues.

[Aaron_S]

This has been one of my arguments to myself as I'm feeding her... They are dumb. Circle of life. Are there many circumstances of a snake getting injured by a mouse?? This really is something I ignorantly view as rare and circumstantial. This is legit what I was taught by the people when I got Penelope (not saying they are right) this is what I know.

Yes there are many.

It is caused by people that don't know what they are doing and it doesn't necessarily mean they weren't watching.
Put it this way, if a mouse decided to bite a snake's eye how fast do you think you are to stop it from happening compared to how fast the mouse is?
All it takes is the snake to miss and constrict improperly and the mouse turn around and bite the eye....

Yes it is possible for any snake to "miss".

[RideOrDieB]

RideorDieB what do you mean by this statement?



How would your stress affect the snake's stress?

Couldn't my bad vibes rub off on her? I am realizing that feeding f/t would def be the safer route for my girl as I do believe it s rare for a live mouse to harm the snake... But it's possible and why risk it at all...

I still don't see feeding time being easier doing this route tho... We'll see.. And maybe with time

I have heard its a myth u shouldn't feed your snake in their enclosure... Any opinions? I do feed her out of hers tho.

[Mikoh4792]

Couldn't my bad vibes rub off on her? I am realizing that feeding f/t would def be the safer route for my girl as I do believe it s rare for a live mouse to harm the snake... But it's possible and why risk it at all...

I still don't see feeding time being easier doing this route tho... We'll see.. And maybe with time

I have heard its a myth u shouldn't feed your snake in their enclosure... Any opinions? I do feed her out of hers tho.

How would your vibes run off on her? i don't see how snakes have that capability. I have never seen a person make a good case for the idea.

I feed all my snakes in their enclosure and always have... and so do many people. I don't see the reason to feed in a separate enclosure. It's a waste of time and causes unnecessary stress(picking up an animal when full).

[EL Ziggy]

How would your vibes run off on her? i don't see how snakes have that capability. I have never seen a person make a good case for the idea.

I feed all my snakes in their enclosure and always have... and so do many people. I don't see the reason to feed in a separate enclosure. It's a waste of time and causes unnecessary stress(picking up an animal when full).
^^Agreed^^

[Aaron_S]

Couldn't my bad vibes rub off on her? I am realizing that feeding f/t would def be the safer route for my girl as I do believe it s rare for a live mouse to harm the snake... But it's possible and why risk it at all...

I still don't see feeding time being easier doing this route tho... We'll see.. And maybe with time

I have heard its a myth u shouldn't feed your snake in their enclosure... Any opinions? I do feed her out of hers tho.

So if you've heard it's a myth then why do you do it?

You seem to have a thing for doing or believing the opposite of the truth. Almost like you do it purely to be different. I hope that isn't the case.

Anyway, I breed ball pythons and every last one is fed in their tub. I have kept other species as well over many years and every last one has been fed in their enclosure.

[psychocircus]

Couldn't my bad vibes rub off on her? I am realizing that feeding f/t would def be the safer route for my girl as I do believe it s rare for a live mouse to harm the snake... But it's possible and why risk it at all...

I still don't see feeding time being easier doing this route tho... We'll see.. And maybe with time

I have heard its a myth u shouldn't feed your snake in their enclosure... Any opinions? I do feed her out of hers tho.

No snakes cannot detect your stress. Maybe if you are extremely uncomfortable handling her, she may pick up on such "vibes"

It is not rare for a mouse to harm a snake. Even if the extreme case of the mouse eating the snake doesn't occur, it can still scratch, bite, etc leaving scars. No big deal? what if it gets your snakes eye?

There is nothing wrong with asking questions, but why talk about it if you're not willing to listen? Would you make your dog hunt live animals so it can use it's natural prey drive? The snake cannot get away from the rodent like it could in the wild.

Feed your snake in the enclosure. That's fine.

[xSerpentGoddess]

Suggestions?

1. Don't feed mice to a snake that should be on rats. The babies that hatch here are fed rats by their 3rd feeding.

2. Mice have a far greater chance of attacking your animal than rats do. Bigger doesn't necessarily mean "badder".

3. It's a snake in captivity. Treat it like one. It doesn't care for a "taste" of the wild by using live prey because the snake doesn't have the capacity to think on that level.

If you wish to feed it live just know it's for your own reasons not for the snake on any level.

4. Want to be stress free? Stop feeding live. BOOM! Solved.


I love you. I have so many customers that want to know when its ok to start live. These are pretty much my reasons to never do it... I also have pictures of horrible live feeding incidents for the hardheaded.

[reptimama]

Hey RideorDieB! I see you haven't been active in a few months so hopefully you're still around and will maybe see this :) I've been gone for a while myself! I have a 7 year old Ball Python myself and I feed her live. I've tried to feed her F/T but I've never been able to get her to take it. I've tried wiggling it, waiting until she is HUNGRY, I've even tried making the F/T bleed some (I was told by my local herp store that may induce interest) nothing. She shows interest but never actually eats :( If anyone has any other ideas let me know! I do feed rats. I was feeding mice when I first got her. I was told by a worker at the pet store where I got her (diff from current herp store) that mice would be fine blah blah blah... (they also said she would be "just fine" in a 10 gallon take for her whole life) Well, she never grew like she should. Then I moved and found my new place. They said feed rats and boom! She started growing! :)
I also have a Florida King Snake and he eats whatever I give him, live, F/T, it doesn't matter. I've also fed in the enclosure and in a separate tank and I see no difference in temperament. I find it easier to just feed in the enclosure so I do that.
I hope you are able to relax at feeding time!