View Full Version : An apparent threat to the empire
OttawaChris
02-10-03, 12:09 PM
I want to start out by making it clear that I am not whining in this thread... I am making my point clear.
I would like to know when the herp hobby became a dictatorship instead of a fellowship. One person (who shall be known as Mr. X) seems to think the entire hobby is his alone to own and control.
A show in Ottawa has been booked and money has been spent to make it so. Approximately one month after the show was announced to the public, a show in Toronto magically popped up slated for the very next day. Coincidence?
I booked that day on purpose for the sole reason of not wanting to be direct "competition" for either the port credit or St. Jacob's shows. April was the only open month in the spring. Apparently the same courtesy isn't a standard amongst others.
Placing a show in Toronto the day after the show in Ottawa Going out of one's way to hold down the hobby for one's own personal gain is not only dirty, it is down right crooked. Mr X apparently does not realize that he is not the only person in the world and that he doesn't rule the herp hobby as much as he would like to believe he does.
In a world where herpers are seen as freaks and wierdos by the masses, (masses that don't understand the animals we all love and cherish), we really need to be standing together and helping each other rather than hindering one another for personal gain. Ottawa is in turmoil over the new proposed bylaws and a big showing here would have gotten us leaps and bounds to creating awareness and education in the public eye.
Its a shame that Mr X seems to be a little bit sour that someone did more than just TALK about a show in Ottawa, because all he is going to accomplish is making 2 half *** shows in a weekend instead of 2 great shows in different months. This serves to do nothing more than limit the growth of a great hobby. CONGRATS MR X I am sure you are really proud.
Despite the best efforts of others, the show WILL go on in Ottawa as planned.
OttawaChris
02-10-03, 08:14 PM
After speaking with Mr X on the phone, it has been agreed that he is moving his show to March 30 on the basis of me placing this ammendment.
In his defence... he claims he did not know about my show and was not intentionally trying to throw a wrench in mine.
Hopefully this is all laid to rest now and we can all continue on as happy herpers.
katev17
02-10-03, 08:21 PM
Woohoo! Glad the fog in the air has been cleared... Can't wait for the ottawa show! :D
Kate
sSNAKESs.com
02-10-03, 08:25 PM
In defence of the chosen date... It was also done on this date origionally because we could get the legion the night before and we were going to have a anniversary party which we have had to cancel. We wont be able to do the party untill the fall if we are going to have it at the location on the show and the show the following day. So there was actually alot more involved then what Grant was accused of in the origional thread. It was changed FOR YOU and I had to cancel the anniversary party aswell. So i am hoping it wasnt in vain and that by doing so it helps in the fight against the Bi Laws in your area and benefit the hobby for everyone.
asphyxia
02-10-03, 08:31 PM
And Thats That
Onward and upward
Best regards
Brian
tHeGiNo
02-10-03, 08:33 PM
Lol common guys, you can't just immediately claim he was trying to throw off your show. I mean Grant is a really good guy, and being responsible for changing the bylaws in many areas around the GTA I would highly doubt he would intentionally throw off your attempt to get the ridiculous laws changed. Honestly, I think before stating such direct accusations more information should be gathered. Maybe I am wrong, and maybe my interpretation of the individual is incorrect. Anyhow the problem is solved and that is what matters I suppose...
PortCreditPets
02-10-03, 09:01 PM
An open letter
To Ottawa Chris,
First your comments of me being proud are nothing but absolutely wrong. I have worked diligently for over twelve years in promoting this hobby to all of the general public. I had hoped that most people out there by now have lost the thought or stereotype that reptile keepers are freaks and weirdos.
As for a dictatorship that is the last reign I am attempting to achieve. As for ruling the hobby, I am presently not interested there are much better people out there that are just hobbyists not like you or I.Family is where it is at these days for me.
As for the personal gain comment when anyone has spent a tenth of the funds or hours that I have put into promoting this hobby then that person is welcome to cast a comment such as yours. I would love too see more people instead of taking as much time as to stereotype others or posting slanderous remarks put that time into working on the promotion of educating the public on reptiles.
The facility had asked me to change the date for the May expo do to a mix up in scheduling a number of weeks ago. They gave me the closest date that would also in addittion allow us to celebrate the www.ssnakess anniversary as well the anniversary for www.portcreditpets.com, by throwing a party the evening before with some live entertainment (two live bands) and food etc. Then the expo the next day. The event was booked for 7pm in the evening with the thought that if anyone attending the Ottawa Expo they would be able to travel back in time to attend this function. The Sunday would have hosted again the Toronto Reptile Expo. Saturday the 5th in Ottawa and Sunday the 6th in Toronto. This would have been a province wide reptile weekend extravaganza. April has always been a month we would normally have an Expo scheduled for. I believe actually ten years ago it was our first date back in Toronto. This date has now been cancelled and rescheduled.
As for the talk of the Ottawa show. Well I can say it was in the works. It takes a lot of time and planning to promote and organise an event of this magnitude. One cant handle it like a garage sale. There are officials and people to get on side in which I am sure you are finding out as you go. By-laws can assist an Expo or flatten an Expo.
In the past as well as in the future I have supported any and as many as I possibly can, Ontario Herp Shows. I have supported them across the country if when possible. Be it through table representation or flyers being distributed like yours were at the expo or our retail store. I will still post The Ottawa show flyers.
All in all after speaking to you tonight I was a little dissappointed from the discussion as well as the post. That is my opinion though. I would have thought considering we were in the same room yesterday for eight hours almost that if there was an issue you would have brought it up then. Instead of airing it out on a public forum. Regardless I took the initiative to contact you as my emails to you were unanswered to discuss this. As you can see though I think it will work out in the long run.
The date has been changed from April 06 to March XXth for the next Toronto Reptile Expo, the anniversary party for www.ssnakess.com and www.portcreditpets.com has been cancelled until further notice. This hopefully will not cause any conflicts with the April 05 event you are working on.
I can only add one more thing to this that I am hoping everyone will consider. These forums are a great tool for everyone to learn and express their experiences on. Thanks to Jeff, Shane, Matt, Linds, Trace, VG and the other mods it will survive. It is not a place to air problems between individuals. Talk it out or take the time and make a phone call or email even. Your right that when this communiity can work together we can make changes in any commuinty. We did it in Toronto and hopefully herpers in Ottawa will also be successfull in thier efforts.
Grant Crossman
www.portcreditpets.com
tHeGiNo
02-10-03, 09:16 PM
Damn, that is very unfortunate. I was really looking forward to the party, and the toronto expo in April, Ottawa is too far for me lol. Well the expo is on another date yes but unfortunately the party is cancelled. Hopefully later something of the sort may be rescheduled
katev17
02-10-03, 09:21 PM
That's it, anniversary party at my house! And everyone can head off to the Ottawa show when it's done! :D lol okay I'll need some help moving the furniture out of my house... and convincing my parents that it'll be a small get together.... it'll work!
Kate
tHeGiNo
02-10-03, 09:21 PM
LoL I forgot to mention, THIS IS RACISM AND DISCRIMINATION!! LoL, I remember about a month back I said something about a certain individual and I was given **** from just about every member in the forum! lol
katev17
02-10-03, 09:23 PM
He didn't name names though, it was Jeff who mentioned it and that was only after the whole thing had been cleared up (Plus, who's gonna argue with him??)
Kate
HeatherRose
02-10-03, 09:23 PM
I call the dip! (to bring to Kate's party!) lol
Heather
tHeGiNo
02-10-03, 09:24 PM
LoL alright alright good point, he didn't mention names, but it is not like we didn't know who he was making the claims against.
tHeGiNo
02-10-03, 09:25 PM
also what did you mean by "Plus, who's gonna argue with him??"
Shane Tesser
02-10-03, 09:34 PM
Hmmmm dead issue..dont you think? Thanks for your support everyone :D
sSNAKESs.com
02-10-03, 09:34 PM
I agree, ask Gino, if someone feels i am doing something wrong it is fine by all means to let it be known! :D Me and TheGino has argued on a few occasions, and I am treated no differantly then any other member and issues concerning me are handled by other moderators. I would never police myself, nor do i expect to get special treatment. Off topic i know but it had to be said! ;)
katev17
02-10-03, 09:35 PM
I meant if he's saying it's a closed case or something I'm not going to stand up and say "No it's not.. I don't think so! " lol Yup dead issue. I'm also dead tired so GNITE
Kate
sSNAKESs.com
02-10-03, 09:40 PM
Katev, hehe cool :) I just didnt want people to think i need any special treatment!! Im just a community member like everyone else! :D
casacrow
02-10-03, 10:00 PM
Katev17,
I am all for a party at your place, but keep the furniture.....we will need something to pass out on..lol.
Grant, Jeff....any idea when the actual party would be takin' place?
sSNAKESs.com
02-11-03, 05:49 AM
Matt its been cancelled untill we can book another weekend with the party on sautrday evening and a show the following sunday so out of towners dont have to travel far distances for just one or the other..
Originally posted by Jeff
Matt its been cancelled untill we can book another weekend with the party on sautrday evening and a show the following sunday so out of towners dont have to travel far distances for just one or the other..
That sucks. I was looking forward to the party.
Nanashi04
02-11-03, 11:33 AM
o.O
my brain hurts.
Scotty Allen
02-11-03, 01:02 PM
I am dismayed and somewhat baffled at some of the things that I’m reading in this thread. From what I understand, Grant has had to change his May expo date to April 6 due solely to a conflict in dates with the hall where it is held. There is no malice here. This talk of “empires” and such is just plain nonsense; the herpetocultural hobby is getting big enough in Ontario and the rest of Canada that there is room for both. Ottawa and Toronto are far enough away from each other that there is no earthly reason why two shows should not be held on the same weekend, one in Ottawa on Saturday, the other here in TO on the Sunday. Hell, they might just complement each other, actually making it worthwhile for out of province vendors and guests to travel to Ontario for the weekend and see both.
Now I see that Grant’s April 5/6 date is cancelled.
Grant, I think this is very magnanimous of you to do this to appease the organizer(s) of the Ottawa show but not necessary. I have attended and worked on many such expos, some smaller, some larger and am well familiar with the amount of work and planning that goes into putting one together. There are US states where two or three shows, expos, swap meets whatever term you want to use are held on the same weekend. You have worked your tail off for 12 or so years to make this hobby grow into the business it now is here in Canada, don’t change your plans now.
Chris, go on with your show, and best of luck with it. There is plenty of room for both of you on the same weekend. Remember though, Grant’s first show more than 10 years ago, featured only 7 vendors, I was one of them. It will take awhile to build yours up to a good size.
katev17
02-11-03, 02:10 PM
lol Okay cool Jeff
Yea, I'll just make sure to remove all sharp & breakable objects... you know how crazy some of those "angry" drunks get... But couches & chairs all the way! Mwahaha... BYOB , I can't afford it
Kate
Scotty I fully agree with you that was well put!!!!
tHeGiNo
02-11-03, 03:54 PM
LOL great, thanks a lot Jeff. Make me look like an a hole just because I had a problem, not directly at you but lol that is another story, heheh.
Scotty your post is one of the best I've read on the site in a LONG time.. I personally feel the same way, the Ottawa Show and the site party AND the Toronto show SHOULD be the same weekend.
We had make plans to attend all three things that weekend, even to the point of giving my ex extra access so we could go with the kids [we have a sitter in the GTA for the night of the party :) ]
But now since the TO show and Ott show are different weekends and only a week apart we can't afford to go to either :(
My 5 yr old is really upset about it as he hasn't been able to go to the shows with us because of the issue this past year. The April OTT/TO shows weekend would have been a 5 day weekend for us as a family. Now we just can't do it :(
I hope you are happy Chris as you've disappointed a lil boy, cancelled a party that ppl put tons of work into, as well as upset alot of site members.
Grant I still think you should have the show that weekend.
Jeff you should still go ahead with the party.
Chris seems to be acting like a child about this [yes I have had private conversations with him about it and he just kept whining about how "Grant's trying to destroy me" "he's been ruinning me since I annouced the show" blah blah whine.
Sorry to vent but the herp community doesn't need this.
We are all supposed to be a family and HELP each other, not hurt or backstab each other.
[really hoping this makes sense, if it doesn't sorry.. I'm upset after having to tell Will we aren't going]
tHeGiNo
02-11-03, 05:15 PM
Well said, with all do respect I think a tad bit of jealousy was involved in this issue. I also agree the shows should go on, all three that is, on the original dates.
HeatherRose
02-11-03, 05:26 PM
I agree with tHe GiNo, I think all the shows can go on together peacefully. As mentioned, some people might have planned to go to all of them. I know that I'm going to the Ottawa show and I'd be a little upset if it was cancelled like that.
No disrespect to anyone of course, as I am VERY happy that a show in Ottawa was organized Chris, so thanks :)
Just my 3 cents . (you don't get 2, you get a whole 3!)
Heather
LTownsend
02-11-03, 07:04 PM
Is this for real?? The whole original post is nothing short of a public personal attack towards Grant. It is my understanding that Chris was at the TO expo all day on the 9th and flyers were being handed out by Grant to promote the show in Ottawa.....if you (Chris) felt so strongly about it, why didn't you attempt to work it out privately in person on Sunday instead of bringing it here to a public forum for all to see the next day. Is that your idea of "working together"? Seems to me that you are the one trying to "undermine" here and your whole post wreaks of childish whining. This is exactly the kind of bull**** the herp community doesn't need, and after reading that, I wouldn't give the Ottawa show a second thought, because you have made it appear as though it is being organized by children instead of business professionals.
Chris, I don't know about most people but if I had to choose between 2 shows that had the same vendors at both shows I would be choosing the first show. If I was a vendor and I had to choose between 2 shows due to time constraints I would be picking the bigger show. Some vendors are traveling a few days to get to the show and can't spend a week doing nothing while there are live animals back home that need attending. With your behaviour you're dealing yourself out of the "empire".
Right now you've put yourself in the position of second place and gaining the reputation of whining because life isn't fair to you.
PortCreditPets
02-11-03, 10:23 PM
To all members,
Well the above thread has now caused quite a stir. After making all efforts to work something out where everyone would be happy it has come to me that I should not have rescheduled the event.
I recieved a number of phone calls and emails today supporting the April date of the Toronto Reptile Expo. I discussed it to great lengths with many of the long time herpers, vendors and ssnakess.com members. After speaking to them I am convinced that I jumped to quickly to change the date of the Expo.
It would not be fair to the attendees that recieved flyers at the last expo that do not frequent the forums to reschedule this event. I still believe those that want to will travel to Ottawa and back for the Toronto Expo.
So I have decided to maintain the April Expo date as Sunday April 06, 2003 from 9am to 4pm.
As well I will be hosting the anniversary party along with Jeff for Port Credit Pets and ssnakess.com. This event will be on Saturday April 05th from 6:30 and on. With live entertainment. More information will be provided in the next few days.
This will be an exciting weekend. For all. I would like to encourage everyone to take advantage of this great weekend. Make the trip to Ottawa on Saturday and come back for the party on Saturday night and then drop by on Sunday for the Toronto Reptile Expo.
Grant Crossman
Toronto Reptile Expo April 06 9am to 4pm see you there!!!!
sSNAKESs.com
02-11-03, 10:32 PM
I have also recieved a number of emails, aswell as a number of concerned people contact me via msn and in the community chat room. Alot of members are planning on making a full weekend out of it and it should truly be one for the record books! :D Sorry for any confusion that this has caused to anyone involved and I am sure this will turn out to be one heck of a weekend for everyone! Grant thank you for your continued efforts to keep everything under control and for everything you have done to get this party up and running!
Scotty Allen
02-11-03, 10:36 PM
I'm with you both 100%. Good decision Grant, I salute you.
:D :D :D
Very happy with the descision
Sounds like an awesome weekend! Although I'm getting confused with the changes, but I'm all for this way!!!!!!!!! YAY!! :)
beth wallbank
02-11-03, 11:02 PM
The two shows should both go off with a bang.....both of separate days, in separate cities. There should never have been a problem to begin with and this was the wrong place to air the dirty laundry. Many people will be travelling from afar to make it a weekend trip, so good decision Grant, and good luck with the show.
I also am with Grant and Jeff and the rest of you, I think it truly will be one for the books. Thanks for all the hardwork guys. I'll see you at the show and apparently will be the one wearing the wig?!!!
Nick
p.s. hopefully a few other people will come to their senses and will also be wearing wigs not mentioning any names haha :medclown:
I do not know exactly the whole storey here, All I know is that Grant has been there to help me and probably countless others in the hobby. I totally respect and admire what he has done for hobby and the industry.
Grant, You've been there to help me out with many things. The time and efforts that you put in for the hobby and the industry is extremely valuable. I'm sure there are many things that you do for our hobby that we do not even notice. You deserve better then to be publicly attacked on this thread like that. I hope you do keep the April show and don't change a thing.
Well Grant, I'm sure everything will work out. Kepp up the great work man, and if there's ANYTHING I could help you with, please don't hesitate to call me.
Your friend, KaHane
DragnDrop
02-11-03, 11:39 PM
Grant, I'm glad you reconsidered. :)
P.S. .... just a gentle hint - April 6 is exactly one week before my birthday.... anyone planning on getting me a herp as a present can buy it at the show and drop it off at my table - saves shipping costs.
Aaron_S
02-11-03, 11:56 PM
Yes the party is back and i can't wait. Nick if you wear that wig i will give you a buck.:p
Seriously? Are we kidding in this thread? Honestly? I thought it must be a joke considering that Ottawa is 5 HOURS AWAY FROM TORONTO!
Its like saying Buffalo shouldn't have a show on the same day as Toronto. Its ridiculous. I am sorry everyone involved even involved themselves. To much bickering over something not even a problem IMHO.
Two shows. Two cities. Whats the problem? Geez. Good luck to both shows and promoters! Happy herping .
Marisa
P.S. How can two reptile shows, even next door to each other on the same day POSSIBLY be a problem? LOL More shows the better IMHO.
Scotty Allen
02-12-03, 04:50 AM
.
Scotty Allen
02-12-03, 04:51 AM
Originally posted by FlatwoundScotty
P.S. .... just a gentle hint - April 6 is exactly one week before my birthday.... anyone planning on getting me a herp as a present can buy it at the show and drop it off at my table - saves shipping costs.
Hilde, are you still gunning for "free stuff" ? [/B][/QUOTE]
DragnDrop
02-12-03, 06:07 AM
Originally posted by FlatwoundScotty
Hilde, are you still gunning for "free stuff" ?
Heck YES!!
I firmly believe that you never get anything free unless you ask, so I always leave that door open to me.
:)
And if you noticed, at the show on Sunday, I didn't remind you about the free leachianus I'd love to get from you? I haven't given up, I was just too busy. You can still offer me one, I'll accept graciously.
:rolleyes: ;) :D
THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU
You can't imagine how happy Will is going to be now that we can go again.
We can only go to TO one now but.. he'll be happy with just that because of the "underground trains"
I could just kiss you Grant, Jeff, [whoever else is behind the scenes we don't know about, NO SHANE I WILL NOT KISS YOU :p ]
*now I am hoping he doesn't get sick that just before weekend*
Geez Renee be careful dont threaten Grant with that or he might change it back
lol :P
damzookeeper
02-12-03, 07:10 PM
wow, like usual I missed a hole lot!! jeez! I'm glad the herp shows are both back and running. I'm pretty sure I wont be able to make it to the port credit/ssnakess party but I will be going to the Ottawa show and possibly the Toronto show. :D If I can get a ride. lol. It's 6 hours for me since I'm an hour on the other side of Ottawa. :( but I'm hoping to make it to both, if I'm not broke after one. lol. Plus I really want to see you guys!!
Way to go Grant and Jeff, I'm glad you decided to go with the original dates! It should be a herp week end for the record books!! And the photo books. :D I know I'll have my camera on hand.
Shane Tesser
02-12-03, 07:51 PM
okay fine...ill come to the party Grant, as long as i dont have to watch you get all drunk..get up on stage and do that stupid hoola hoop dance again!!!
damzookeeper
02-12-03, 07:54 PM
What?! Dang, I wanna see that!! lol But you have to join him Shane, along with Jeff. Oh, and you have to wear grass skirts. :D
Oh, forget it if you have hairy leggs. Eww! lol
sSNAKESs.com
02-12-03, 08:05 PM
lol no hair here! :rolleyes:
Jeff's a swimmer, so he's aero-dynamic!! ummm, or so i've been told :rolleyes:
LMAO..................aero-dynamic..............that's funny!!!
sSNAKESs.com
02-12-03, 10:18 PM
lmao Matt!!
well if the show had been on Mar 30 it would have been the day after my b-day, but yea if anyone wants to get me late b-day presents i'll be there on teh 6th! Any snake related stuff (or beer or something, thats always good) Glad you moved it back to the 6th, I think I might have been too drunk on the 30th anyways :)
DragnDrop
02-13-03, 03:52 PM
Originally posted by Kathy
well if the show had been on Mar 30 it would have been the day after my b-day, but yea if anyone wants to get me late b-day presents i'll be there on teh 6th! Any snake related stuff (or beer or something, thats always good) Glad you moved it back to the 6th, I think I might have been too drunk on the 30th anyways :)
Hey.... freebies and birthday presents at the show are my idea. I posted it first. And since there's no doubt I'm the older of the two of us, I get the better presents.
:rolleyes:
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