This is sick! Python breeder arrested in California

[Mikoh4792]

I feel terrible for those animals, and this is another news story that makes us look bad.

California Python Breeder Arrested After 100s of Dead Pythons Found in Home (http://www.reptilesmagazine.com/California-Python-Breeder-Arrested-After-100s-of-Dead-Pythons-Found-in-Home/)

[Terranaut]

Omfg!!! People just suck.

[Shann]

I'm not justifying what he did (because this is truly HORRIBLE), but it seems like he was a good guy who snapped at the death of his mother. I checked out some of his posts on another forum and he had some pretty amazing animals that all looked like they were in great shape. In the comments sections on some of the articles out there I see lots of posts from families of his former students saying that he was a really great teacher, and introduced many kids to animals. Not saying that this is ok. It makes me very sad, in fact. And very worried about what sort of impact this will have on the reptile community. I think he was just like a lot of us, but grief can have horrible effects on people, and unfortunately it's the animals that suffered because of it.

[Mikoh4792]

I'm not justifying what he did (because this is truly HORRIBLE), but it seems like he was a good guy who snapped at the death of his mother. I checked out some of his posts on another forum and he had some pretty amazing animals that all looked like they were in great shape. In the comments sections on some of the articles out there I see lots of posts from families of his former students saying that he was a really great teacher, and introduced many kids to animals. Not saying that this is ok. It makes me very sad, in fact. And very worried about what sort of impact this will have on the reptile community. I think he was just like a lot of us, but grief can have horrible effects on people, and unfortunately it's the animals that suffered because of it.


Yes, no one is going to say this is okay. But reading your post I guess it makes sense that going through a tragedy or traumatic experience might have caused him to lose sight of his snakes.... But still it would have made more sense for him to just sell everything off if he couldn't care for them.

[Shann]

Yes, no one is going to say this is okay. But reading your post I guess it makes sense that going through a tragedy or traumatic experience might have caused him to lose sight of his snakes.... But still it would have made more sense for him to just sell everything off if he couldn't care for them.

I agree, sadly in these situations a lot of people are incapable of thinking logically. I just wish someone had been able to intervene before it got this bad. I wonder just how many animals died and are going to die as a result. It makes me glad that they are looking into adopting these snakes out though. A lot of times they just euthanize them all. As bad as this situation is, the media is actually presenting it in a pretty fair way, compared to how they usually handle snake stories. A lot of the articles have mentioned what good pets snakes can make, and that ball pythons are small and docile.

Anyways, this guy had a decent presence online until about a year ago. Every time someone just stops posting on forums like this, I always wonder what will happen to them.

[LiL Zap]

I'm sorry but there's no excuse for animal cruelty. I totally understand that people lose loved ones but that doesn't justify the fact that he neglected these animals.

[Shann]

I wasn't saying it was an excuse. Just saying that this could be any one of us. This guy was a part of the online community. And I think as a community we should try and look out for each other.

[LiL Zap]

I wasn't saying it was an excuse. Just saying that this could be any one of us. This guy was a part of the online community. And I think as a community we should try and look out for each other.
Wait...this forum?

[Shann]

No, not this one, at least not that I know of, but I'm newer over here. Bp.net, and maybe others. But he was a very regular poster with some pretty great threads until a year ago.

[Sharlynn93]

So sad...I know how it is to lose someone close and totally shut down...it is unfortunate that these snakes suffered the consequences...but thank goodness it wasn't his children...I know my pets are my children too, and no matter how sick or tired I am, I make sure all are fed, taken care of, etc...but depression is something I have struggled with since childhood...it can really take a toll on a person...

[Snakefood]

I know everyone is different, but I tend to descend into my animals in times of despair. they are my comfort. They probably get even MORE attention when I am going through rough times.

[Sharlynn93]

I am the same...when my gram passed I cuddled with my dog for days...he was my comfort...even now I retreat to my snake room a lot...play w my rats, or the snakes... (not without washing up in between though!!! Lol)

[CosmicOwl]

Stories like this make me hesitant to ever breed. It sounds like a cop out, but sometimes things get out of control and you're sitting around wondering where a year went. Nobody is immune to being overwhelmed.

[formica]

grief can do terrible things to a person, this doesn't even come close to how messed up things can get for people, but its a tragedy non the less.

I hope that he will get support, rather than criminal repercussions. but I guess that depends on the local justice departments

[Terranaut]

The only excuse would be if the owner himself died and left a collection unattended.

[robertjnovak59]

My dad worked with a guy who was taking care of his elderly mother. I guess she was dead for 8 or 9 years before anyone found out. She died in her bed and the guy went on as if she were still alive. I don't know how you could live in a house with the stench of death always present.

[Terranaut]

My dad worked with a guy who was taking care of his elderly mother. I guess she was dead for 8 or 9 years before anyone found out. She died in her bed and the guy went on as if she were still alive. I don't know how you could live in a house with the stench of death always present.

They made a movie about this....Psycho.
we are talking about Norman Bates right ? ;)

[Pareeeee]

So sad. Both for the animals and the owner.

There's no excuse for animal cruelty but this person obviously had some mental distress. Sometimes a tragedy like losing a close loved-one can cause someone to snap, and the symptoms can mirror those of an actual mental illness.

[robertjnovak59]

They made a movie about this....Psycho.
we are talking about Norman Bates right ? ;)

So you've heard about it? Lol. He didn't kill her, she died of natural causes, he just didn't want to let her go. No one suspected anything. She died and he went on as if nothing happened.

[psychocircus]

I agree^
If this person was right-minded, even if he was ruthless to the animals would at least dispose of the animals.

My cousin posted this earlier. It is a shame to see, but good to see people considering snakes/reptiles in animal abuse cases.

[lisas]

Who knows what was going on in his mind? Sounds like he snapped completely. I feel for all of those animals and I feel for him too. What an awful tragedy all-around. Grief is a hard thing - I'm still grieving for my skink, Daru, who I lost 6 months ago and still feel that I should have done things differently in his care, before and after his illness. This has been hard but we all have to struggle against our demons so that we can be better for those in our lives, both people and our animals. I wish he had gotten the help that he needed.

[formica]

there is a difference between abuse and neglect, abuse is intentional, neglect is not necessarily intentional - refusing the differentiate does not help any animals live better lives, nor does it encourage people to seek help when they need it.

[Terranaut]

there is a difference between abuse and neglect, abuse is intentional, neglect is not necessarily intentional - refusing the differentiate does not help any animals live better lives, nor does it encourage people to seek help when they need it.

Nor does it change the fact that these animals suffered horribly before death. No excuses will ever change that. Nothing will make this ok. No doctor will remove this from the news. No story will un tarnish the reputations of us all based on this.

[CosmicOwl]

Nor does it change the fact that these animals suffered horribly before death. No excuses will ever change that. Nothing will make this ok. No doctor will remove this from the news. No story will un tarnish the reputations of us all based on this.

This is going to keep happening until the community decides to moves away from rack systems and massive breeding operations.

[formica]

Nor does it change the fact that these animals suffered horribly before death. No excuses will ever change that. Nothing will make this ok. No doctor will remove this from the news. No story will un tarnish the reputations of us all based on this.

what do you mean ''excuses''? people do not have to make excuses for being ill.

no one said it was ok, but that does not mean it was his fault or that he deserves to be demonized for it.

[psychocircus]

This is going to keep happening until the community decides to moves away from rack systems and massive breeding operations.

kind of a catch 22.
These types of breeding operations have made the hobby much more popular. While this has its downfalls, it also means that more people are fighting for the rights of hobbyists and also means less wild caught animals are being brought in.

[BIGT FROM F.B.]

grief can do terrible things to a person, this doesn't even come close to how messed up things can get for people, but its a tragedy non the less.

I hope that he will get support, rather than criminal repercussions. but I guess that depends on the local justice departments

Agreed. We have no idea what loss can do to some people. I personally know someone who's mother died a few years back and none of us have seen or heard from him since. Nobody seems to know what happened to him either.

My opinion: He couldn't have been in his right mind. Why else would he let something that he was obviously passionate about suffer and go to pot like that? In the end, the animals shouldn't have been the ones to pay the price along with him, but none of us are in that situation to know for ourselves.

[CosmicOwl]

kind of a catch 22.
These types of breeding operations have made the hobby much more popular. While this has its downfalls, it also means that more people are fighting for the rights of hobbyists and also means less wild caught animals are being brought in.

It seems like most of the snakes being bred in these conditions are the sort of animals that are already flooding the market. Ball Pythons, corn snakes etc. Which is why we have so many people filling craigslist with snakes that they can't care for or no longer want. Not to mention, the demand for new and interesting morphs means that plenty of snakes are still being pulled out of the wild.

Either way, the problem isn't really with huge breeders though. A lot of them take really good care of their product, and make sure everything is healthy. The fact that breeding setups are so easy to imitate, is what ends up causing situations like this one. How many people do you know who have 20 dogs or cats? Such a number isn't even remotely high in the reptile community. It seems like rack systems and large numbers of snakes are becoming the norm. Every so often, we're going to hear about somebody who has a couple hundred snakes and ending neglecting them.

[infernalis]

without really reading everyone's comments... I dislike the way the reporter implied that because of this, the neighbor should worry about a shed skin he found in his garden.

"How does it feel knowing you lived next door to this many snakes"??

Would have been awesome, if the dude was taking care of them. ;)

[CosmicOwl]

without really reading everyone's comments... I dislike the way the reporter implied that because of this, the neighbor should worry about a shed skin he found in his garden.

"How does it feel knowing you lived next door to this many snakes"??

Would have been awesome, if the dude was taking care of them. ;)

I think you just wrote the screenplay for the next Syfy original movie: Snakepocalypse!

Time to call the neighborhood watch.

[Terranaut]

what do you mean ''excuses''? people do not have to make excuses for being ill.

no one said it was ok, but that does not mean it was his fault or that he deserves to be demonized for it.

Your assuming mental illness I am assuming apathy or lack of funds. I never once said anything against mental illness. Get your facts straight. Show me where a doctor has diagnosed this guy as mentally ill..... just because another user said he wasn't right is not mental illness. Ever considered they guy just messed up? Apparently thinking that way would be crazy :(

[psychocircus]

Your assuming mental illness I am assuming apathy or lack of funds. I never once said anything against mental illness. Get your facts straight. Show me where a doctor has diagnosed this guy as mentally ill..... just because another user said he wasn't right is not mental illness. Ever considered they guy just messed up? Apparently thinking that way would be crazy :(

depression is a form of mental illness. as is hoarding (form of obsessive compulsive)

So let's assume it was funds. Why would he allow all of the decaying animals lay around his house and live like that. No one is condoning what happened, but truly no one in their right mind would live in such a way.

[formica]

Your assuming mental illness I am assuming apathy or lack of funds. I never once said anything against mental illness. Get your facts straight. Show me where a doctor has diagnosed this guy as mentally ill..... just because another user said he wasn't right is not mental illness. Ever considered they guy just messed up? Apparently thinking that way would be crazy :(


did you even read the article?

[Terranaut]

did you even read the article?

Yes....did you?
Are all breeders hoarders or mentally ill. I know two people with that many snakes...should we commit them?

No one in their right mind would rape and kill a child but sane people do stuff like this.

[psychocircus]

Yes....did you?
Are all breeders hoarders or mentally ill. I know two people with that many snakes...should we commit them?

No one in their right mind would rape and kill a child but sane people do stuff like this.

No, all that let animals rot and decompose for months in their house most likely are though.

And I think there are people in their right mind who murder for alternate motivations.

Are there people who murder because they are crazy? Absolutely. Does that mean they shouldn't be punished? No. I don't think anyone is saying action doesn't need to be taken.

[infernalis]

depression is a form of mental illness.

Depression is a state of mind that anyone can experience.

Every single human being on this planet or any other for that matter has been depressed at some point or another, Wife just left, husband just died, cat run over by a car, etc..

Chronic depression is a mental illness.

[infernalis]

Can we NOT try and diagnose this guy??

If we are going to start fighting over some unfortunate situation, trying to play arm chair psychologist, I will close the thread and save the trouble now.

[Terranaut]

Can we NOT try and diagnose this guy??

If we are going to start fighting over some unfortunate situation, trying to play arm chair psychologist, I will close the thread and save the trouble now.

My point exactly Wayne. Thanks.

[formica]

Depression is a state of mind that anyone can experience.

Every single human being on this planet or any other for that matter has been depressed at some point or another, Wife just left, husband just died, cat run over by a car, etc..

Chronic depression is a mental illness.

how long do you think it would take for that many snakes to die and decompose? it certainly didnt happen in a few weeks.

regardless, depression is mental illness, whether it is acute or chronic is irrelevant, both can have an equally devastating effects on a persons life.


Can we NOT try and diagnose this guy??

If we are going to start fighting over some unfortunate situation, trying to play arm chair psychologist, I will close the thread and save the trouble now.


the article brought up the subject of his mothers death and the roll it may have played in the situation, it is an important part of the discussion.

[BIGT FROM F.B.]

I think Reginald Denny said it best. "Can't we all just get along?" LOL!!! I hope I'm not the only one old enough to remember that!!!

[robertjnovak59]

I can't imagine caring for 400 snakes myself. I don't think I could do it with my day job. I'd imagine it being a full time job caring for that many snakes.

[Snakefood]

It is, I know a breeder out here who has at least that many, and I am not just talking about hatchling season!! I took my fiance up there once when I was picking out my Mohave, he asked the breeder what he does for a living, the breeder said "I breed snakes!!" DEFINATELY a full time job for sure!!

Even with my collection, I come home from my F/T job, get my son fed, bathed and in bed and then spend at least an hr on my snakes.

[Starbuck]

lol snakefood i read that at 'i come home from my frozen/thawed job.... :)

[aaron_cg]

Holy ****. That's insane. The guy should of definitely re-homed those poor snakes

[Donnie]

We had a similar case over here a year or two ago but not as severe and the woman has just been to court over it. Punishment, a ban from keeping reptiles for a year and a £250 fine. That'll teach her.......

PICTURES: Woman banned from keeping snakes after admitting causing unnecessary suffering (From York Press) (http://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/10977224.Woman_banned_from_keeping_snakes_after_ad mitting_causing_unnecessary_suffering/?ref=rss)

[KORBIN5895]

I'd hit that Donnie...... With a 2x4

[shaunyboy]

I'm not justifying what he did (because this is truly HORRIBLE), but it seems like he was a good guy who snapped at the death of his mother. I checked out some of his posts on another forum and he had some pretty amazing animals that all looked like they were in great shape. In the comments sections on some of the articles out there I see lots of posts from families of his former students saying that he was a really great teacher, and introduced many kids to animals. Not saying that this is ok. It makes me very sad, in fact. And very worried about what sort of impact this will have on the reptile community. I think he was just like a lot of us, but grief can have horrible effects on people, and unfortunately it's the animals that suffered because of it.

^^^^^
very eloquently put mate

imo it won't harm the reptile community,as most decent human beings will share your views

my 75 year old fathers due for an operation,also he's lost 3 and a half stone...

my 73 year old mothers ill with worry...

i know the above is affecting me,so god knows what it would be like to lose your mother

imo this mans case is NOT the same as the usual neglect story


cheers shaun

[desipooh.12]

That guy lives 45mins away from me,
My husband was telling me about it,
It was on the news & everything..
Its very rare to know of ppl in this area to breed
Snakes or own snakes in general..
I was shocked!

[desipooh.12]

Wait nevermind this was a different guy..
But just recently this guy had about 100 ball pythons
& breed mice/rats & a neighbor complained about the
Smell & the police went to investigate & he had them in poor condition
& charged him with like 10+ counts including animal cruelty..
When they came to get the snakes 95% of them died.. Babies/adults
& mice/rat infestation..
Thats not common in my area..
Horrible just horrible ❗❕❗