Feeder Quantity/Size Question

[loud]

Newbie question time!

I currently have a 6 month old JCP that I got last Saturday, being fed f/t mice fuzzies for now. He ate at the breeder's on Jan 4th (I think), and then with me on the 20th. I think the general consensus is to feed young snakes every 5-7 days, so I went ahead and fed him today again. That was about an hour ago, and he remained very active inside his enclosure for at least 30 minutes. This was rather surprising for me because the first time I fed him, on Monday, he went immediately into his warm hide after feeding.

I did a search on the forums and am reading some mixed opinions. Some say that's just how some snakes are, others say to increase feed. So my question is - what should I do? Should I give him another mouse if he seems to want more? I'll definitely move up to rats eventually, but it's only his first week with me so I'd like to not spring too many surprises on him. The mice fuzzies are indeed about 1 1/2 times his width, which I hear is how you determine whether or not the feeder is large enough for your snake. Not sure how accurate or not that is, but thought I'd add that in there.

He IS settled on top of the fake vegetation now, but just seeing how active he was and just how interested he seemed to be in tracking my movements... wondering if I should be making any changes to his feeding quantity/feeder size/feeding frequency.

Thanks for bearing with me!

[shaunyboy]

stop feeding him mice and get him onto rats.....

sometimes the older a Carpet Python gets,the harder it can be,to get them to switch over from mice to rats,and it takes a lot of mice to feed an adult Carpet mate

take some pictures next to a can of coke to give us a size reference of the snake

he will definitely take rat pups,but more than likely he will manage rat fluffs/fuzzies,a Carpet Python will take Prey 3,4,5 times it's girth with out issue,i feed large prey less often and they seem to thrive on it

i feed hatchling Carpets rats straight out the egg

i feed hatchlings right up to sub adult hood once every 7 days

adults every 2 to 4 weeks,winter only 2 to 3 feeds

Diamond Pythons i feed once every 2 to 3 weeks,also i don't feed them for 6 month of the year

Carpets should be lean and muscular,i would not increase his feeds



imo the reason he is still pacing around the tank,remaining active after feeding,is he is still in hunting/feeding mode and now feels secure enough to look around his enclosure

imo he's Tracking your movements because you are a heat signature to him,and he's tracking it because he's either still in feeding mode,or he feels vulnerable after just eating and is making sure your not a danger to him

cheers shaun

[KORBIN5895]

I personally feed a meal that is quite a bit bigger and feed less often. My female bci was 8 months old when she went to small rats biweekly yet I know many boa people that are still feeding rat pups at a year plus.

[loud]

stop feeding him mice and get him onto rats.....

sometimes the older a Carpet Python gets,the harder it can be,to get them to switch over from mice to rats,and it takes a lot of mice to feed an adult Carpet mate

take some pictures next to a can of coke to give us a size reference of the snake

he will definitely take rat pups,but more than likely he will manage rat fluffs/fuzzies,a Carpet Python will take Prey 3,4,5 times it's girth with out issue,i feed large prey less often and they seem to thrive on it

i feed hatchling Carpets rats straight out the egg

i feed hatchlings right up to sub adult hood once every 7 days

adults every 2 to 4 weeks,winter only 2 to 3 feeds

Diamond Pythons i feed once every 2 to 3 weeks,also i don't feed them for 6 month of the year

Carpets should be lean and muscular,i would not increase his feeds



imo the reason he is still pacing around the tank,remaining active after feeding,is he is still in hunting/feeding mode and now feels secure enough to look around his enclosure

imo he's Tracking your movements because you are a heat signature to him,and he's tracking it because he's either still in feeding mode,or he feels vulnerable after just eating and is making sure your not a danger to him

cheers shaun

Thanks shaun, that was an incredibly helpful reply and I appreciate your help immensely.

On mice vs. rats - I will follow your advice and purchase some frozen feeder mice next week for his feeding. I did see that some people recommended to start them on rats as soon as possible, but I had already made the newbie mistake of handling him too soon and was worried he'd be too stressed to accept the change in his diet. Well, I haven't had a single problem with him not eating, his feeding response is excellent. Hope I can make a smooth transition to rats. Bummer though because I just bought a pack of mice... guess I'll give it to the cats!

On size - I don't have any soda cans in the house but will be sure to find something else universally known and get pictures for perspective in a few days. For now, these are the best I have, unfortunately

Wrapped around a female gloved hand (not because he's nippy, because he actually isn't... I had just come in from outside)
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3703/12085148064_31d1f9d4b5_z.jpg

The white climb is a part of a clothing hanger, maybe that can give some perspective for width?
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3794/12085477936_7fe442fcdd_z.jpg

I'll try to get more useful pictures in two days!

On feeding f/t rats - should I be purchasing the fuzzies? If I feed every 7 days, how soon will he outgrow fuzzies and move on to pups? Happy to learn that Carpets can take prey several times its girth; I actually had observed that the mice fuzzies do not leave a very distinct bulge in his body (rather, he just looks a little chubbier).

And thank you for explaining about the cruising/pacing and the tracking my movements, that's very good to know and makes sense. Really appreciate your expertise in the matter shaun - thanks again!

I personally feed a meal that is quite a bit bigger and feed less often. My female bci was 8 months old when she went to small rats biweekly yet I know many boa people that are still feeding rat pups at a year plus.

Looks like I'll have to change a few things with the feedings, then. Thanks for answering, I appreciate it! Plus, even with larger feeders, being able to feed less frequently is bound to save me money in the long run. Naturally, I don't mind that plan at all!

[loud]

He's on the move again, and has been for the last 30 minutes to 1 hour. I checked the temperatures of the enclosure just in case he couldn't find a warm enough place to settle down, but everything looks good.

Something I should add is that I did also feed him inside his enclosure (didn't want to add on any stress by moving him around) so maybe he's still responding to the scent. I have a feeding tub all prepared but wanted to wait until he's had at least two feedings before I started moving him from tub to tub. So next week I figure we'll be doing rat fuzzies in a separate feeding tub.

Sorry for all the rambling. Now that I know what and when I should be feeding him, I'll quit worrying and just let him do his thing.

[Lankyrob]

Dont feed in a separate tub, just keep him in his enclosure where he is safe and secure. Imagine a seven foot carpet with nice big teeth in feed mode and then imagine having to pick it up to move it........... ;)

[loud]

Well, it's 4 am and he's back to cruising around; he's staying on his climbs, examining the tub lid and breathing holes. I have yet to see him anywhere near this active and really wish I had picked up the rat fuzzies instead!

Dont feed in a separate tub, just keep him in his enclosure where he is safe and secure. Imagine a seven foot carpet with nice big teeth in feed mode and then imagine having to pick it up to move it........... ;)

Good point LOL Are you trying to make me nervous? First time snake owner here :p

Nah, I'm hoping that as an adult he will be relatively mild and easy to handle. I plan to take him out daily for handling (with the exception of the first 2-3 days after a meal). I figure that if I remove him from his enclosure daily, he won't know when I'm doing it for a feeding and when I'm just doing it for handling? So hopefully he won't be going into feeding mode every time I open the enclosure, especially not once he's full grown!

I don't know though, I haven't really given thought to how a snake makes these kinds of connections! The initial appeal of a separate feeding tub for me was so that I didn't have to deal with a 5' - 7' snake going into feeding mode every time I reached into the enclosure.

[Donnie]

Don't worry about him cruising around, that's what carpets do if they are hungry or not. If your worried about sticking your hand in and getting bit due to a feeding responce you can always tap train him to help avoid it.

[Starbuck]

I figure that if I remove him from his enclosure daily, he won't know when I'm doing it for a feeding and when I'm just doing it for handling?

By that logic think of it this way: if you feed him in enclosure, he will ALWAYS know that being taken out means no food.... no food= no chainsaw ;-)

[Mikoh4792]

By that logic think of it this way: if you feed him in enclosure, he will ALWAYS know that being taken out means no food.... no food= no chainsaw ;-)

This


Also shaunyboy can you clarify what you mean by ratpups? Are you actually talking about 20-29g gram ratpups?(bigger than adult mice) or are you talking about newborn rats?(bigger than mice hoppers).


Op you can feed him small meals weekly, or big meals bi to tri weekly.

Or you can vary his schedule(which I will start to do for my snakes). Give him a small meal frequently for a few weeks, and then give him big meals infrequently for a few weeks.

[Donnie]

Ratpups over here are the smallest rats you can get, newborns.

[Cruddown]

I was curious about this, too. I've seen both guidelines that food items should be 1-1.5 times the snake's girth or 10-15% of body weight. My boa eats small f/t rats that fall into the circumference guideline but are about 25% of her body weight.

If I go by the weight guideline, the rats seem too small, and hardly leave a lump in her.

[Mikoh4792]

cruddown boas should not eat meals that are much bigger than their thickest part. They have sensitive digestive systems compared to other snakes. Vin Russo feeds his baby boas once every 2 weeks and not at all during winter.

[Cruddown]

cruddown boas should not eat meals that are much bigger than their thickest part. They have sensitive digestive systems compared to other snakes. Vin Russo feeds his baby boas once every 2 weeks and not at all during winter.

That's good to know, thank you. I've been getting small frozen rats at petco and I have to feel each one in the bag to make sure they're not too big since they all seem to vary greatly. I only get the smallest ones that are as thick as her. I'm sure it looks really weird to people walking by. The next size down doesn't seem to make much of a lump.

[loud]

Don't worry about him cruising around, that's what carpets do if they are hungry or not. If your worried about sticking your hand in and getting bit due to a feeding responce you can always tap train him to help avoid it.

Well, he's stopped moving now and just hanging out on the plants! Usually he will move around just a little a few times a day, but he really seemed like he wanted to get out last night and I hadn't seen him like that before. I'm not that worried anymore - he'll survive eating a smaller than recommended meal for one feeding! I just found his behavior very curious.

I'm actually not that concerned about getting bit, either, to be honest. Later last night I realized that some water spilled onto the paper towel lining his enclosure... I reached in to remove his hides and coax him into another tub while I switched out the paper towel. Snake didn't care, just tried to get out and climb my arms. He's relatively non-nippy for a carpet, which I like very much and hope will continue to be the case with age and more handling.

By that logic think of it this way: if you feed him in enclosure, he will ALWAYS know that being taken out means no food.... no food= no chainsaw ;-)

Oh, that's an excellent way to explain it! Thanks for dumbing it down for me, I needed it LOL


Op you can feed him small meals weekly, or big meals bi to tri weekly.

Or you can vary his schedule(which I will start to do for my snakes). Give him a small meal frequently for a few weeks, and then give him big meals infrequently for a few weeks.

With baby snakes, would it be okay to feed bi/tri-weekly? I keep hearing to feed every 5-7 days but at the breeder's they were indeed eating just twice a week. Also, what counts as a big meal in that case? If I'll be switching over to rats, should I first go to fuzzies or directly to pups/large fuzzies if I'm feeding bi-weekly?

I've definitely heard a lot of different information regarding what size and how frequently to feed jungles; really appreciate the help you're giving me!

Ratpups over here are the smallest rats you can get, newborns.

That had me wondering, so I checked the place where I buy my frozen feeders and their chart for rats is

Rats - Pink to Lg Fuzzy (Live & Frozen)
Rats - Hopper to Med (Live & Frozen)
Rats - Lg (Live & Frozen)
Rats - Jmb (Live & Frozen)

[Mikoh4792]

With baby snakes, would it be okay to feed bi/tri-weekly? I keep hearing to feed every 5-7 days but at the breeder's they were indeed eating just twice a week. Also, what counts as a big meal in that case? If I'll be switching over to rats, should I first go to fuzzies or directly to pups/large fuzzies if I'm feeding bi-weekly?

I've definitely heard a lot of different information regarding what size and how frequently to feed jungles; really appreciate the help you're giving me!


Yes you can feed babies bi-tri weekly depending on the size of the meal... that's what I've been doing.

Everyone will have their own definition of what a big meal is...but they are generally the same. To me, a big meal is something that is 1.5 to 4 times the size of the thickest part of the body.

Anything smaller and I consider it a normal or small meal.


The reason you keep hearing 1 meal every 5-7 days is because it's just a guideline you can follow. Carpet pythons don't need to eat on fixed schedule. They are opportunistic feeders that eat whenever food is available. That could be a small gecko today, a bearded dragon tomorrow, and a wallaby 2 months later.

[loud]

Alright, sounds good! So if I start feeding large rat fuzzies (which will likely be at least 2x-3x its size), and feed bi-weekly, I should be on the right track? I actually do want to feed twice a week if it'll be okay, because I'd like to be able to handle the snake more frequently.

[Mikoh4792]

Alright, sounds good! So if I start feeding large rat fuzzies (which will likely be at least 2x-3x its size), and feed bi-weekly, I should be on the right track? I actually do want to feed twice a week if it'll be okay, because I'd like to be able to handle the snake more frequently.

How can you feed twice a week and handle it more? Wouldn't feeding it twice a week leave little room for handling?

[loud]

How can you feed twice a week and handle it more? Wouldn't feeding it twice a week leave little room for handling?

Haha, no I'm just an idiot. Slept after 4 am and my brain hasn't started up yet.

I meant once every 2 weeks (bi-weekly) :o So just one average to large sized fuzzy every two weeks would be good?

[KORBIN5895]

cruddown boas should not eat meals that are much bigger than their thickest part. They have sensitive digestive systems compared to other snakes. Vin Russo feeds his baby boas once every 2 weeks and not at all during winter.

I'm think you are a little confused......

Common Boas are an absolute machine when it comes to prey size. They will literally digest anything they swallow.

Bcc on the other hand are a little more finnicky...

[Mikoh4792]

I'm think you are a little confused......

Common Boas are an absolute machine when it comes to prey size. They will literally digest anything they swallow.

Bcc on the other hand are a little more finnicky...

Just reiterating what I've been told by Vin Russo and Gus Rentfro.

Yes they will digest the food but I'm not worried about regurgitation. I'm worried about them becoming overweight.

[KORBIN5895]

Just reiterating what I've been told by Vin Russo and Gus Rentfro.

Yes they will digest the food but I'm not worried about regurgitation. I'm worried about them becoming overweight.

A sensitive digestive system would have nothing to do with becoming overweight.

cruddown boas should not eat meals that are much bigger than their thickest part. They have sensitive digestive systems compared to other snakes..

I know I'm not Vin but I do speak from some experience. Feeding a hatchling boa every two weeks seems a bit of a stretch, especially when the meal is only the diameter of its body.

[Mikoh4792]

A sensitive digestive system would have nothing to do with becoming overweight.

I guess I used the wrong word to describe it then.



I know I'm not Vin but I do speak from some experience. Feeding a hatchling boa every two weeks seems a bit of a stretch, especially when the meal is only the diameter of its body.

Would you say feeding a hatchling boa every two weeks would induce malnutrition/stunted growth? Or would it just be a slower growth, while maintaining healthy weight?

edit: ^considering the meal is about the diameter of the thickest part of the body

[KORBIN5895]

Personally from what i have seen I think the smaller prey less often would greatly restrict growth according to the currently accepted standards in our industry.

I personally feel that the currently accepted growth rate is a bit aggressive. I have healthy, active and well toned female boa that is three years old. I wouldn't dream of breeding her but I know many "breeders" get their females breeding around three years old yet they claim they aren't power feeding. From what I read it isn't uncommon for wild bci females to be five years old before breeding.

[shaunyboy]

Ratpups over here are the smallest rats you can get, newborns.

^^^^^
this

rat pups have no fur,the same as a mouse pinky

over here it goes...

rat pup (no hair,still feeding off the mother rat,newborn)

rat fluffs/fuzzies (have fur/hair)

small rat weiners

large rat weiner

small rat

medium rat

large rat

jumbo rat


to the op
good looking wee Jungle you have there mate

most Carpets will cruise around their tanks after dark

Carpet Pythons are an easy to keep hardy species,so please try not to worry too much

i would try yours with some rat pups (rats that have yet to get hair)

if he refuses to take rats,try scenting them with mice...

heat a mouse and a rat pup up (i use a hair dryer)then ,burst the mouse and smear mouse blood and guts all over the rat,then give the rat another quick heat and offer to the snake

you could also brain the rat after scenting,puncture the rats skull with the point of a pair of scissors,until you see grey liquid coming out the puncture holes,then give the head another quick heat and offer to the snake

i would not handle the snake and only go near it to change it's water,until its feeding regular,say 4 or 5 feeds in a row

then once it's an established feeder,you can start to handle it to get it used to you and learn your not a threat

a lot of Carpet hatchlings can be defensive biters,usually once they get a bit of size about them,and work out your not going to eat them,they calm down

cheers shaun

[Mikoh4792]

Ah well I guess that's why. Over here we call those rat pinks. Rat pups are 20-29 gram rats just pass the weanling stage.

[CosmicOwl]

I've been debating the best way to feed my small rat and corn snakes. I'm torn between feeding them one pinky every 4-5 days or 2 every 7-8. I'm not quite sure which is the healthiest way to feed them.

[loud]

^^^^^
this

rat pups have no fur,the same as a mouse pinky

over here it goes...

rat pup (no hair,still feeding off the mother rat,newborn)

rat fluffs/fuzzies (have fur/hair)

small rat weiners

large rat weiner

small rat

medium rat

large rat

jumbo rat


to the op
good looking wee Jungle you have there mate

most Carpets will cruise around their tanks after dark

Carpet Pythons are an easy to keep hardy species,so please try not to worry too much

i would try yours with some rat pups (rats that have yet to get hair)

if he refuses to take rats,try scenting them with mice...

heat a mouse and a rat pup up (i use a hair dryer)then ,burst the mouse and smear mouse blood and guts all over the rat,then give the rat another quick heat and offer to the snake

you could also brain the rat after scenting,puncture the rats skull with the point of a pair of scissors,until you see grey liquid coming out the puncture holes,then give the head another quick heat and offer to the snake

i would not handle the snake and only go near it to change it's water,until its feeding regular,say 4 or 5 feeds in a row

then once it's an established feeder,you can start to handle it to get it used to you and learn your not a threat

a lot of Carpet hatchlings can be defensive biters,usually once they get a bit of size about them,and work out your not going to eat them,they calm down

cheers shaun

Thanks shaun! Appreciate all the great info. I'll be making a trip to the supply store in a few days - so I should be getting rat pinkies/pups rather than the fuzzies? Rat pinkies would probably count as an average sized meal (as opposed to a large one), so I should continue to feed every 5-7 days, correct? If not please let me know, thanks :)

Scenting and braining the rat sounds like messy business, hopefully it doesn't come to that!! But luckily I am not too squeamish so I'll definitely keep that in mind and try it if necessary.

He really is a lovely little guy, very nice to look at and I have indeed noticed increased activity at night. I'll see about putting together a larger enclosure (complete with several hides and lots of vegetation/climbs) soon, I think he might like the extra space. Nothing too big but something roomier will be nice! He is a little spastic but surprisingly not as nippy as I expected him to be. The breeder sold me a good one!

I've been debating the best way to feed my small rat and corn snakes. I'm torn between feeding them one pinky every 4-5 days or 2 every 7-8. I'm not quite sure which is the healthiest way to feed them.

Would also be interested in the pros and cons of feeding every every 4-5 days vs. every 7-8 days vs. larger meals every 2-3 weeks. After he is reliably and regularly eating rat pinkies/pups, can I or should I transition to rat fuzzies and feed every 2 weeks instead?

[KORBIN5895]

I've been debating the best way to feed my small rat and corn snakes. I'm torn between feeding them one pinky every 4-5 days or 2 every 7-8. I'm not quite sure which is the healthiest way to feed them.

Do one each way.

[Donnie]

Scenting and braining the rat sounds like messy business, hopefully it doesn't come to that!! But luckily I am not too squeamish so I'll definitely keep that in mind and try it if necessary.


That is Shaun's non-squeamish way of doing it, if that doesn't work they you will get to hear of his frankinmouse method :wacky:

[CosmicOwl]

Do one each way.

I've been thinking about it. The one thing that has me leaning towards the feeding smaller meals more frequently, is that after I give my grey rat snake a large meal, he seems very sluggish for a few days. Even if he's just digesting pinkies, it still must still take a while. With smaller meals, he's active after about a day and a half and does a lot of climbing.

[loud]

That is Shaun's non-squeamish way of doing it, if that doesn't work they you will get to hear of his frankinmouse method :wacky:

Uh oh... please tell me it's not the one that involves a rat in mouse's clothing...literally. I found that one while searching up old threads!!! Let's just hope this little guy will take to rats without a problem, because I don't think I'm quite ready for the more "creative" alternatives LOL