How, and when to throw an intervention.

[valid]

So ... I have very much debated posting this. I would, however like some feed back because it has been nagging at me for a while, and most of the people I have direct contact with do not care or just don't know what to do.

Anyway, recently I mentioned to a few of my friends that I really missed being around reptiles. I know that I am not in a stable enough place in my life that I can even think about getting another snake for myself for a long while. - One of my friends mentioned that he knew a guy that had some animals that would/could be interested in some help. Curious, I decided to look into the matter and he was right -

This guy not only had some animals, he had a LOT of animals (Primarily reptiles/rodents/ and fish). Like borderline hoarder, not cared for incorrectly caged (Multi species that should not co-hab in one enclosure) animals. Plus many empty cages, w/conformation he had new animals coming in.

It made me sick.

The guy is one of those 'Oh I've been in the business for 700 years and I've done the same things for ever' - not welcome to new idea types. I have very little desire to ever have much interaction with him again. But I would like to do something for the animals. I Have never been in a situation similar to this - is there something I could do ?

[pdomensis]

I think this evry time I go to the local pet shop.

[valid]

I think this evry time I go to the local pet shop.

yes, but I know that I could not/ would not win in a battle against a big corperation xP or that the authorities would even both hosting an investigation. - not that I am looking to get into a battle at all. I really don't have a lot invested, in the matter .. I just feel bad.

The guys house is a mess, and can't be sanitary. I am a bit suprised the neighbors or other people have not thrown more of a fit about it.

[Jim Smith]

What you describe is a very delicate situation. If you're considering contacting authorities, you need to be very confident that the situation meets the requirements for them to intervene. It sounds like this person is not open to ideas from the outside as to how he should maintain his animals and will almost certainly resent (aka get mad a h$#l) at anyone "interfering" in his life and how he cares for his animals. Sometimes people in that frame of mind can go off the deep end and do crazy stuff. Last year, there was a man here in the Atlanta area that was cited for keeping chickens in a residential neighborhood. When he didn't make the changes required by the authorities, the sheriffs office went to his house to evict him or take away his chickens. As the officer was walking up the sidewalk to the front door, the man blew the entire house up with him (and his chickens) inside. Thankfully, the officer was not seriously injured, but I'm just saying that be sure what you may be getting into if you plan an intervention, however well intended. Just a thought...

[formica]

I agree that there should be genuine concern for the well being of the animals, but dont let fear dictate your actions, if he's the kind of person who would blow up his own home with him still inside of it, well its something that is going to happen no matter what, at some point

did the animals look unwell or have any signs that they where injured, diseased or generally in bad shape?

did the place smell bad?

are you concerned for the animals welfare? or the welfare of the owner?

if so, I would contact the local animal welfare group, or WSPA, whichever is active in your area, and leave them to do what they have to do.

They will make a judgement based on their experience and knowledge, but they cant do that if they dont know, you can provide information ''off the record''


You dont have to provide the animal welfare groups with your personal information, and no one can force you to give evidence on the matter, the trained professionals who deal with these things will collect their own evidence, and take action based on their own judgement

[valid]

That is a very scary situation. I have only had interaction with this individual once, but I was very uncomfortable. I do not want to put myself in a situation when I would be putting myself in harms way. It is very sensitive, and I am not going to impulsively call the authorities . I was just curious to see if any one has been in, or has witnessed a similar situation. I am sure I would have to go back and get pictures and other evidence of neglect before, or if I involve the authorities.. Which I am not excited to do.

[formica]

That is a very scary situation. I have only had interaction with this individual once, but I was very uncomfortable. I do not want to put myself in a situation when I would be putting myself in harms way. It is very sensitive, and I am not going to impulsively call the authorities . I was just curious to see if any one has been in, or has witnessed a similar situation. I am sure I would have to go back and get pictures and other evidence of neglect before, or if I involve the authorities.. Which I am not excited to do.

dont take that job on yourself, leave it to the people trained to deal with it, animal neglect and abuse is often a result of unaddressed health problems in the owner, animal welfare workers know that and are often trained to deal with it, or at least will have access to people who can support their work

[Starbuck]

you could try calling your local metro branch of the SPCA, or whoever deals with cruelty/hoarding cases in your area. They may be able to intervene if there is some bylaw of your town that puts restrictions on species, number of animals, etc... write down now everything you remember about the conditions, the species you saw, etc. I wouldn't recommend going there again and trying to get 'evidence', because then the individual could potentially turn it around on you and press trespassing charges.

[valid]

As a testament to how often I do not find myself in this situation, I had completely forgotten about the SPCA. I will defiantly look into finding their info and let them do the investigation work. Thank you !

[lady_bug87]

Here's what you do:

Walk away. Never look back. Ever.

[KORBIN5895]

Here's what you do:

Walk away. Never look back. Ever.

After you set his house in fire.

[mclund]

Here's what you do:

Walk away. Never look back. Ever.

Best advice I have heard so far. You are not going to change this person. Just piss them off. It is unfortunate the animals are the losers in these cases, but this person has made up their mind, this is how its done.

[kelzerman]

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lgxjohB99v1qhs35so1_1280.jpg

[formica]

its a shame so many are prepared to look the other way, hardly surprising our societies are such a mess.


do what you think is right, not whats easy.

[valid]

I am not looking to have a hero complex here - or try to gain hero status by "SAVING ALL THE ANIMALS"
My friend said that the guy has had a lot of animals for as long as he has known the man ( My friend use to be his next door neighbor, and his family would go over and help from time to time .. it wasn't like they were great buddies ) SO he probably wasn't going to change. He mentioned the guy to me, just because I expressed interest, and he thought maybe I could help. It was blatantly obvious upon first visit that the guy did not want help, so we left.

I don't want to go back, I don't care to have any interaction with him ever again, as I stated above. And while I know that it is stupid, and probably pointless I feel bad for the animals, so if I can I would like to do something for them with out getting directly involved.

The SPCA is the best option. I have looked up the information, and will be contacting them tomorrow - and let them do what they will with the information. My conscious will be clear.

I know that even if something does happen, and he looses the animals, that it is pretty likely in the future he will go back to his old ways. That is not my problem, I did what I could for the animals that I saw and that is all I can do.

[mistersprinkles]

Just take his animals when he isn't looking. Give them better homes.

[Starbuck]

I'm not sure of your particular states regulations, but for some the laws outlining cruelty or inhumane treatment are poorly defined for non-mammals (in terms of crowding, negligence vs intentional neglect, etc), just to prepare you in the likely event that the spca says they can't do anything :/
unfortunate that that is the case.

[lady_bug87]

its a shame so many are prepared to look the other way, hardly surprising our societies are such a mess.


do what you think is right, not whats easy.

What I gave was actually my professional opinion. I work in the social services sector and I can tell you that if someone is a hoarder, they need PROFESSIONAL help by someone qualified to give it. Not only that but there also needs to be aftercare and subsequent and sometimes intensive treatment. If these criterion are not met with even with all the animals rehomed the individual is likely to relapse

[formica]

What I gave was actually my professional opinion. I work in the social services sector and I can tell you that if someone is a hoarder, they need PROFESSIONAL help by someone qualified to give it. Not only that but there also needs to be aftercare and subsequent and sometimes intensive treatment. If these criterion are not met with even with all the animals rehomed the individual is likely to relapse

I am well aware of the health issues which lead to these situations, as I said earlier in the thread. not sure how walking away helps him or the animals, the ball has to start rolling at some point, and as long as people look the other way, it never will.

and cases like this, as I am sure you are aware, are never solved by a single incident triggering support, multiple incidents over a long period of time are the norm, before someone gets the help they need.

[lady_bug87]

We can't expect the op to want to have to deal with those or put themselves in a position that they can be harmed. So yes walk away is the right answer. They can make the phone calls but that's it

[infernalis]

http://www.varanus.us/dont/0121.jpg

[marvelfreak]

Just call animal control or the police and let them investigate.

[infernalis]

We can't expect the op to want to have to deal with those or put themselves in a position that they can be harmed. So yes walk away is the right answer. They can make the phone calls but that's it

That's it.... wait a short while so it's not obvious who dropped the dime, and make a call.

Keep yourself out of harms way.

I turned in a guy who cooks meth with his 3 year old present, I called Children's services, he figured out who made the call and it got real ugly here for a while.

Be careful.

[KORBIN5895]

I was serious about burning his house down....