Pine

[Kera]

I know you can't use pine as substrate for a snake, but I use it for my rat. Just a quick and possibly stupid question, can I have the pine in the same room as a snake or should I get different bedding for the rat?

[ilovemysnake]

i thought it was the oils that were deadly. so my guess is its fine, but im not sure.

[mclund]

You will be fine. While it is not a recommended bedding for reptiles, if you can find it dried out enough, you can use it. There are just so many better options. I have never heard of a snake dying because it was kept on pine bedding.Cedar however is toxic. Substrates also vary by species. Aspen is great, but not if you want raise humidity.

[Donnie]

Over here they sell a substrate called orchid bark and it is actually pine bark. I use it for my carpets and it is fine, as mentioned it is the oils that are harmful.

[Kera]

Alright thanks guys! Just being paranoid. :)

[infernalis]

All the beddings have had the terpene removed (toxins) as they force it out and condense it for the chemical industry. Primarily to manufacture turpentine.

It's quite safe, as is pine lumbers.

[Kera]

All the beddings have had the terpene removed (toxins) as they force it out and condense it for the chemical industry. Primarily to manufacture turpentine.

It's quite safe, as is pine lumbers.

Good to know:)

[Skits]

Pine gives RI for rodents, because of the dust in it. I know aspen is safe.

the Rat Report (http://www.ratfanclub.org/litters.html)

[Kera]

Thanks, Skits

[mclund]

Pine gives RI for rodents, because of the dust in it. I know aspen is safe.

the Rat Report (http://www.ratfanclub.org/litters.html)


Where the heck did that come from?

I have raised thousands..no wait hundreds of thousands of rodents..most of them die, but never from being kept on pine.

Kera,
The pine will not hurt your rodents. As I stated above, It can be used as a substrate for snakes, it is just not the best choice.

[kelzerman]

Where the heck did that come from?

I have raised thousands..no wait hundreds of thousands of rodents..most of them die, but never from being kept on pine.

Kera,
The pine will not hurt your rodents. As I stated above, It can be used as a substrate for snakes, it is just not the best choice.


by Debbie “The Rat Lady” Ducommun :unhappy:

Lol

[mclund]

by Debbie “The Rat Lady” Ducommun :unhappy:

Lol

Sorry...but they are well cared for. Unfortunately, snakes don't eat chicken soup.

[kelzerman]

I do not breed nor plan on breeding rats/mice. I cant handle the smell. So I have no first hand experience with this...

But I did have a pet rat for awhile until he bit me, and he was kept on pine. I have seen many rat/mice breeding setups and they all use pine. I have never heard them mention anything negative about it.

[formica]

i'd like to see some evidence that pine shavings, even treated to remove terpenes, are safe for reptiles, thats quite a statement to make!

Given that terpenes are highly toxic to most forms of life and it is generally accepted that they should not be used....extracting terpenes from wood is not a 100% efficient process

Pine bark is altogether diffrent, bark does not have sap running thru it like timbre, so does not have anywhere near the same level of terpenes

pine as a timbre for building enclosures is fine, although imo it should be well sealed - and caution should also be taken also for the Phenol resin content of particle boards/ply/etc



..most of them die

but...not all of them? :3eyes:

[mclund]

i'd like to see some evidence that pine shavings, even treated to remove terpenes, are safe for reptiles, thats quite a statement to make!

I doubt there has been any research. I was basing my comment on past experience. It has been many years that I have used pine for my reptiles, but I never experienced any problems. I suppose there is some argument here on the subject. The long term effects of pine on captive reptiles should be considered.


but...not all of them? :3eyes:

Life is a terminal illness...eventually they all die, but most of them from unnatural causes.

[formica]

I doubt there has been any research. I was basing my comment on past experience. It has been many years that I have used pine for my reptiles, but I never experienced any problems. I suppose there is some argument here on the subject. The long term effects of pine on captive reptiles should be considered.

I think that is the problem, pines VOC's (infact all VOC's) are well know to be highly toxic to many animals, but a few searches of google reveals nothing specific to reptiles

Considering that reptiles and humans for eg, share many chemical and biological similarities, despite our differences, I think it is unlikely that they are somehow immune.

considering that a wide variety of invertbrates, fish and amphibians, aswell as mammals & birds, are known to find pine VOC's very toxic, even carcinogenic, it is difficult to see how a group of animals which evolved inbetween all those groups, would not also be susceptible to their toxic effect

but, as you say, the research is not there. i'm personally not comfortable recommending pine either way


Life is a terminal illness...eventually they all die, but most of them from unnatural causes.

yes, i was being silly ;)

[formica]

been searching for an hour, and I can find no research into this whatsoever...which is pretty amazing tbh


off to vet tomorrow, might be able to shed some light on it!

[kelzerman]

- Gale - Enter Product Login (http://go.galegroup.com/ps/retrieve.do?sgHitCountType=None&sort=DA-SORT&inPS=true&prodId=AONE&userGroupName=lom_accessmich&tabID=T002&searchId=R4&resultListType=RESULT_LIST&contentSegment=&searchType=BasicSearchForm&currentPosition=5&contentSet=GALE%7CA259466821&&docId=GALE|A259466821&docType=GALE&role=)


Lots of cool info in there. Doesn't prove that the pine we buy has been treated... but just an interesting read.

[formica]

- Gale - Enter Product Login (http://go.galegroup.com/ps/retrieve.do?sgHitCountType=None&sort=DA-SORT&inPS=true&prodId=AONE&userGroupName=lom_accessmich&tabID=T002&searchId=R4&resultListType=RESULT_LIST&contentSegment=&searchType=BasicSearchForm&currentPosition=5&contentSet=GALE%7CA259466821&&docId=GALE|A259466821&docType=GALE&role=)


Lots of cool info in there. Doesn't prove that the pine we buy has been treated... but just an interesting read.

no access, can u copy/paste the relevant parts?

[mclund]

Very interesting article. In researching pine shavings some manufacturers advertised it contained terpenes as a way to reduce the presence of bugs.


Utility of Recycled Bedding for Laboratory Rodents (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2715933/)

[robertjnovak59]

The guy I got my corn snakes from always kept them on pine bedding. They were 8 years old when I got them. I'm not saying anyone should use pine bedding, i switched to aspen when I got them.

[Snakefood]

I personally find that keeping my snakes on paper is both cheaper and an easier cleanup, also, I do't have to worry about whether pine is safe or not. I do breed my own mice and used to breed my own rats too, and I do use pine for them, never had a problem.

[Kera]

I personally find that keeping my snakes on paper is both cheaper and an easier cleanup, also, I do't have to worry about whether pine is safe or not. I do breed my own mice and used to breed my own rats too, and I do use pine for them, never had a problem.
Thanks. I honestly think I might stick with paper towel. It's cheap and easy, but I do prefer natural looks.

[Snakefood]

maybe throw some reptile moss on top?? I use the moss in humid hides all the time and have never had a problem with it, all my snakes are very healthy, and the few I have that prefer to stay in thier moss filled humid hides during thier sheds show no ill effects from it. Just make sure you either get the moss meant for reptiles or "orchid" moss. those are the only types I know of that are garaunteed to have no fertilizers or pesticides in them.

[kelzerman]

Darn it. Wrong quote.

[kelzerman]

no access, can u copy/paste the relevant parts?

Yes as soon as I make it to a computer. Can't get access through my phone.