Another PREVENTABLE tragedy with live feeding

[infernalis]

http://i.imgur.com/sEae3MZ.jpg

once again, someone leaves a rat in with a BP overnight......

grabbed this off facebook just now

[kelzerman]

JESUS F!@# Omg poor little bugger. That is horrible.

[Donnie]

That's awful. How can people be so stupid :(

[TheFrogman]

I cant, wont and don't even want to look at pictures like this, It just disturbs me so damn much

[CK SandBoas]

I just do not get it.....All the person had to do was stay in the room, and watch to make sure something like this didn't happen.... Heck, when I had to feed a female Ball I had live prey, I stayed in the room... even though the short squeal by the rat did get to me when the female struck and grabbed her....but I stayed until the female had the rat halfway down......


That just makes me sick to see :(

[TheFrogman]

That just makes me sick to see :(

Me too, I cant stand seeing this crap from negligent owners

[Mikoh4792]

What facebook was it?

[KORBIN5895]

I think this should be stickied. I actually think we should have a sticky thread of what happens when live feedings go bad. I should go find the link about the people that let their retic with their puppy and how they no longer own said puppy.

[CK SandBoas]

I think this should be stickied. I actually think we should have a sticky thread of what happens when live feedings go bad. I should go find the link about the people that let their retic with their puppy and how they no longer own said puppy.

This should be stickied, along with what happens when you cohab snakes. Pardon the expression, but i know we can't fix stupid, or ignorance, but we can show hard cold evidence of how tragic either one of these events can turn out to be....

[kelzerman]

I think this should be stickied. I actually think we should have a sticky thread of what happens when live feedings go bad. I should go find the link about the people that let their retic with their puppy and how they no longer own said puppy.


What?! Please do find that link I would like to read that. They literally left their puppy with the retic?

Incidents like that give the large constrictors in the hobby a really bad name. Yet it is due to the ignorance of the owner...

[drumcrush]

I think it needs a band aid....

but on all seriousness, that is just awful. my dad feeds live but its because his won't eat anything else. but, that doesn't mean to leave it in with a live feeder. I fed live when I first got my mbk (out of curiosity) I fed both live and f/t. I stoped feeding live not only because it was easier to keep mice in the freezer(so I don't have to pay the money to take care of them) but also to be sure a mishap like this would never happen.

[KORBIN5895]

What?! Please do find that link I would like to read that. They literally left their puppy with the retic?

Incidents like that give the large constrictors in the hobby a really bad name. Yet it is due to the ignorance of the owner...

They had got pictures of the snake eating the dog and put them on fb. The thread is on the boi.

[EL Ziggy]

No comment.

[kelzerman]

They had got pictures of the snake eating the dog and put them on fb. The thread is on the boi.


Whats BOI?

[CK SandBoas]

Whats BOI?

Fauna's Board of Inquiry aka The B.O.I

[infernalis]

The look on the python's face is the hardest part to deal with. There are numerous photos all over the net where the snake is chewed up, but none where it's clearly visible the amount of pain the snake is enduring as it's eaten alive.

I am going to sticky the thread.

[thinkbig317]

Such a shame!!!! ;(

[mclund]

I just do not get it.....All the person had to do was stay in the room, and watch to make sure something like this didn't happen.... Heck, when I had to feed a female Ball I had live prey, I stayed in the room... even though the short squeal by the rat did get to me when the female struck and grabbed her....but I stayed until the female had the rat halfway down......


That just makes me sick to see :(

I agree keeping an eye on the animal while feeding can help, there are still no guarantees that a rodent wouldn't sink it's teeth into a snakes eye when the snake grabs it and do permanent damage.

Matt

[Hurrok]

This is just horrible to see :(

[DragonsEye]

This was tragic and the owners absolute morons.

[Jinxygirl]

This was also posted on a reptile page that I joined on facebook, so many people were arguing over it. I couldn't believe the amount of people that are still willing to risk this happening to their snakes. One girl even said that snakes are predators naturally so if you aren't going to feed your snake live prey then you shouldn't own a snake at all. I was seriously speechless.

[MDT]

It's all about risk mitigation. Yes, they are predators and yes the get injured in the wild when eating. Many predators do. Lions get kicked by zebras, etc...however, I really have no desire to risk *potentially* having my gamma jag or diamond python bit (let alone eaten) by a rat. I am minimizing the risk I'm willing to take. It's not rocket science.

[drumcrush]

It's all about risk mitigation. Yes, they are predators and yes the get injured in the wild when eating. Many predators do. Lions get kicked by zebras, etc...however, I really have no desire to risk *potentially* having my gamma jag or diamond python bit (let alone eaten) by a rat. I am minimizing the risk I'm willing to take. It's not rocket science.

Also, in the wild, the snakes arnt trapped in a feeding tank with the prey. They can just simply go else where if they don't want to eat.

[red ink]

I have never bought into the whole they won't eat FT argument. 99% of all Australian snakes in captivity eat FT/FK. If a whole country can do it so can anyone else...

[IW17]

I have never bought into the whole they won't eat FT argument. 99% of all Australian snakes in captivity eat FT/FK. If a whole country can do it so can anyone else...

It happens. I have a ball python that only eats 8-10 times a year and refuses anything other than live. I agree that most Snakes will in fact take ft/fk if you just keep trying and wean them over. However it's simply not always the case.

That being said, instances like this are unexcusable and it goes to show how truly ignorant many keepers in this hobby can be. And that's unfortunate because an irresponsible few can give the industry as a whole a bad name to outsiders.

[LiL Zap]

This broke my heart. This was totally avoidable! All the idiot had to do was SUPERVISE! I can't stand ignorant people man!

[kelzerman]

Find the owner an throw him/her in the rat pit!!

[Sharlynn93]

from what I read, the owner was a new owner and was told just to put a live rat in the tank...he/she didn't know the risks...now they do...I know it's difficult to switch some snakes to f/t...but luckily so far I have been lucky enough to do it...but still...if I HAD to do it, I never left the side of that tank...if the snake showed no interest within a few minutes, I took it out...

[TeaNinja]

disgusting. and the thing with the dog is also disgusting. makes me feel like abusing the people lol. xD

seriously though, looking at that picture makes me sick on multiple levels.

[KORBIN5895]

from what I read, the owner was a new owner and was told just to put a live rat in the tank...he/she didn't know the risks...now they do...I know it's difficult to switch some snakes to f/t...but luckily so far I have been lucky enough to do it...but still...if I HAD to do it, I never left the side of that tank...if the snake showed no interest within a few minutes, I took it out...

I guarantee you at least one person said to feed f/t.

This is a prime example of why veteran keepers get so frustrated with new keepers. When sound advice is given they either ignore it or take the worst advice given. I can point out several examples over the last two months and often by the same person.

[robertjnovak59]

I think a big part of the problem is the information you find when you search online. There is a ton of very bad information out there. For a beginner to sift thru it and find solid advice, it can be overwhelming.

[EL Ziggy]

I highly doubt it was intentional, though it was extremely negligent, on the keepers part. I'm pretty sure they feel terrible right now so I won't call them bad names. It's a sad but valuable lesson to the all keepers. We live and we learn. Most times snakes kill rats, sometimes rats kill snakes.

[marvelfreak]

I have never bought into the whole they won't eat FT argument. 99% of all Australian snakes in captivity eat FT/FK. If a whole country can do it so can anyone else...
I agree 100%. Any snake can be switched over to f/t. All people have to do is wait out the snake. Once they are hungry enough they will take a f/t. The problem is people are to inpatient and give into soon.

[KORBIN5895]

I think a big part of the problem is the information you find when you search online. There is a ton of very bad information out there. For a beginner to sift thru it and find solid advice, it can be overwhelming.

That's why we strive to keep bad info off of here.

I highly doubt it was intentional, though it was extremely negligent, on the keepers part. I'm pretty sure they feel terrible right now so I won't call them bad names. It's a sad but valuable lesson to the all keepers. We live and we learn. Most times snakes kill rats, sometimes rats kill snakes.

Rats should never kill snakes. Period.

[EL Ziggy]

Rats should never kill snakes. Period.[/QUOTE]

I agree but sometimes predators do become prey. I'm sure it happens occasionally in nature and it obviously happens more than it should in captivity.

[mclund]

Rats should never kill snakes. Period.

at least not in captivity, what happens in the wild is somewhat left up to chance.

[dbank999]

Rats should never kill snakes. Period.

This.


I agree but sometimes predators do become prey. I'm sure it happens occasionally in nature and it obviously happens more than it should in captivity.

It should never happen in captivity, ever. One occurance is one too many, the situation is completely avoidable, and if anyone thinks that this is acceptable to occur every now and then due to lack of knowledge in the hobby, then you are lacking just as much common sense as the person who allowed for this snake to be mangled by its "prey".

[KORBIN5895]

Rats should never kill snakes. Period.

I agree but sometimes predators do become prey. I'm sure it happens occasionally in nature and it obviously happens more than it should in captivity.[/QUOTE]

I doubt a healthy snake would ever be killed by a rat in the wild. A snake would have the ability to flee .

[EL Ziggy]

It should never happen in captivity, ever. One occurance is one too many, the situation is completely avoidable, and if anyone thinks that this is acceptable to occur every now and then due to lack of knowledge in the hobby, then you are lacking just as much common sense as the person who allowed for this snake to be mangled by its "prey".[/QUOTE]

LOTS of things SHOULD never happen but that doesn't stop them from happening. I never said it was acceptable but I do have enough common sense to accept the reality that bad things DO happen, whether we like it or not.

[EL Ziggy]

I agree but sometimes predators do become prey. I'm sure it happens occasionally in nature and it obviously happens more than it should in captivity.

I doubt a healthy snake would ever be killed by a rat in the wild. A snake would have the ability to flee .[/QUOTE]

I don't use absolute terms like never, or ever, because I believe ANYTHING is possible, no matter how improbable. I highly respect the laws of nature and I understand how the food chain "typically" works but lions are 'sometimes ' killed by zebras. It doesn't happen often but it does happen.

[dbank999]

LOTS of things SHOULD never happen but that doesn't stop them from happening. I never said it was acceptable but I do have enough common sense to accept the reality that bad things DO happen, whether we like it or not.

Right, but we aren't talking about LOTS of things. We are talking about feeding a live rat to a ball python. A situation that can be controlled completely.

Common sense isn't required to accept reality, exposure to said reality allows for acceptance.

[poison123]

Mouse**** .

[EL Ziggy]

I respect ALL life and it's sad that one rat killed one snake. 99% of the time the roles would be reversed and people wouldn't care one bit about a rat that's thrown in a tank and suffocated by it's natural enemy. It's not the first time or the last time this will happen so no, I don't get all twisted out of shape about these things. I don't question people's intelligence, common sense or call them morons, idiots, jerks or other bad names for making what appears to be a tragic mistake. Should the keeper have known better? NO DOUBT. Hopefully this will serve as a lesson to others to NOT make the same mistake.

[infernalis]

Here is exactly what happens, IF the rat had a pile of chow and a water bottle, it never would have turned on the snake.

Rats need a steady supply of food and water.

Mice and rats locked in a box will turn on each other when denied food from any other source.

When I was breeding mice and rats for my own use, all it took was one night of falling asleep before filling their food bowls and by the next morning one of the rats was dead and stripped down to a skeleton and some fur on the ground.

I am in no way condoning what happened, but I know exactly WHY it happened, had the keeper provided something for the rat to eat, a pile of cereal, dog food or a biscuit, the rat would have preferred that over eating snake flesh.

want to see a cool demonstration? lock a solo rat in a fish tank for 24-48 hours with no food and water, now, go stick your hand in there... :D

[forkedtongue]

This was off Reddit....

Guy said his room-mate put it in the cage and went to sleep, woke up and decided to take some cool brah pics and send them around.

(not sure if this is mentioned on the later pages, didn't get past the first page)

[bigsnakegirl785]

The look on the python's face is the hardest part to deal with. There are numerous photos all over the net where the snake is chewed up, but none where it's clearly visible the amount of pain the snake is enduring as it's eaten alive.

I am going to sticky the thread.

I know, I almost cried. :( The snake getting the mouse would have been much more humane than that snake being eaten alive for hours. I guarantee you that snake is still alive in this photo.

This was off Reddit....

Guy said his room-mate put it in the cage and went to sleep, woke up and decided to take some cool brah pics and send them around.

(not sure if this is mentioned on the later pages, didn't get past the first page)

I was going to say the same thing. That's where I saw the photo first, and it's popping up everywhere now.

[KORBIN5895]

I'd almost guarantee that snake is dead.

[bigsnakegirl785]

I guess it could be, but it looks like it's lifting it's head up in the air. I know the gaping mouth isn't anything to go off of, but the snake would have to be alive to lift its head up. If it was alive, it wasn't alive for much longer. The photo could be misleading and it's head is actually against the glass, but just looking at it it doesn't look that way. Either way, it's a very inhumane way for that snake to die and I hope the owner learned from this mistake.

[CosmicOwl]

I'll play devils advocate here for a minute. What if that was somebody's pet rat that they decided to feed a snake to?

[poison123]

Mouse**** .....

[poison123]

I'll play devils advocate here for a minute. What if that was somebody's pet rat that they decided to feed a snake to?

Where did you get that idea from?

[CosmicOwl]

Where did you get that idea from?

It's a hypothetical question.

[bigsnakegirl785]

It's a hypothetical question.

I would not agree with it in the slightest if it was someone's pet. As long as it was bred/sold for the sole purpose of being snake food, it's fine. The snake has to eat, but there's no reason to use someone else's pet for food. I had plenty of chances to go get rabbits for Cloud this summer, but they were all pets whose owners would want them to go to good homes and be pets. I couldn't in good conscience feed one of them to my snake, so I looked for meat rabbits and I always let people know exactly what they were going to be used for.

[erichillkeast]

Edit - Post off topic

[KORBIN5895]

Here is a link to the retic eating puppy story.

Leaving Facebook... (http://m.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.faunaclassifieds.com%2Ffo rums%2Fshowthread.php%3Ft%3D406330%26highlight%3Dp uppy%2Bretic&h=PAQEuZ-81&s=1)

[shaunyboy]

gruesome stuff Wayne

the ignorance or laziness of some keepers pisses me off,especially when as said,this entire incident was 100% avoidable


cheers shaun

[kelzerman]

Here is a link to the retic eating puppy story.

Leaving Facebook... (http://m.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.faunaclassifieds.com%2Ffo rums%2Fshowthread.php%3Ft%3D406330%26highlight%3Dp uppy%2Bretic&h=PAQEuZ-81&s=1)


Strictly idiotic.

Oh, reading his facebook posts were utterly painful due to his/her illiteracy.

[CosmicOwl]

Here is a link to the retic eating puppy story.

Leaving Facebook... (http://m.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.faunaclassifieds.com%2Ffo rums%2Fshowthread.php%3Ft%3D406330%26highlight%3Dp uppy%2Bretic&h=PAQEuZ-81&s=1)

I'm sure it's been stated before, but people like that should not be allowed own pets, and they should have their children removed. This is how somebody's kid ends up getting killed and eaten by a python.

[marvelfreak]

Here is a link to the retic eating puppy story.

Leaving Facebook... (http://m.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.faunaclassifieds.com%2Ffo rums%2Fshowthread.php%3Ft%3D406330%26highlight%3Dp uppy%2Bretic&h=PAQEuZ-81&s=1)
People like that just need a freaking bullet in their head.

[Snakefood]

I have never bought into the whole they won't eat FT argument. 99% of all Australian snakes in captivity eat FT/FK. If a whole country can do it so can anyone else...

I used to think the same, I had bought snakes who had been fed live and easily transferred them onto F/T. Then I got my Mystic, who oddly enough was fed on F/T from hatching. I had him flown from Ontario-BC, and when he got here, I honestly thought he was dead, he was cold, didn't move a MUSCLE, even when I placed him on his back and his tongue was not only hanging out of his mouth, but literally plastered to the side of his head and covered one of his eyes!!!

Well, I was devastated. I phoned the breeder he came from told him that the snake arrived dead, and put the box in the car and went out for dinner (comfort food!) then I went home and decided I needed to send the breeder photos to prove that the snake was dead. When I opened up the box and took him out he was still cold but he moved!!

Anyways since coming home, I tried and tried for 4 months to feed him F/T, I used the anthem I learned here "wait him out", but as a baby, I was starting to be able to see the actual shape of his spine and ribs. I called the breeder and he suggested to see if he would eat live, obviously he told me to watch carefully until the prey was dead and never leave a live rodent alone with the snake. So I did and the Mystic jumped on the live food. I have tried many times to switch him over, to either F/K or F/T and he simply wont eat it, he'll eat it stunned as long as it still walks around, but if it is just laying there, he won't even look at it.

Out of all my snakes (21 in total) he is the only one who refuses anything but live. I can't explain it, and I agree it is a rare snake that won't take F/K or F/T, but it happens. It really does!!

[Mack0331]

I am new to boas I just got a dums last week. As a noob I had no idea this could happen I never would have even thought it was possible. The place I got the snake from said it only eats live rats so I got one and put it in the cage with it. As a kid I remember being at a large pet store the had MANY snakes all of them had a live eat in the cage so I thought that it was normal. Lucky for me my boa ate the rat no problems but from now on I will be sure to watch when I feed it. I just wanted to share that to point out some people like me who are new just don't know these things and are not doing it out of stupidity but out of bad info from pet stores.

[Snakefood]

ya, pet stores tend towards bad info, I watched a rep at a pet store tell someone to feed their cornsnake crickets. After the rep walked away, I gave the customer the correct info on feeding their snake. It's amazing what petstore rep's will say!!

Even when they know better, there is a pet store out here that sells snakes that I used to volunteer with (just so I could play with the snakes, and they purposely tell people to feed full grown BP's mice because they make more $$ on multiple mouse sales than single rat sales. The owner told me that outright!! I told him I was going to tell them the proper way to feed their snakes according to the snakes health, not his profit margin.

As you can probably guess....... I don't volunteer there anymore!! LMAO!!