What does everyone think about rattlesnakes losing their rattles?

[bigsnakegirl785]

So, there are some stories circulating around about how people killing rattlesnakes has created a sort of artificial natural selection. Basically, people are going around killing rattlesnakes and we can't find the ones that don't rattle, so they live. I'm not inclined to believe this, but I'm interested in what everyone's opinion is. Also, general urban legends.


Some woman bought a jacket/coat from South America and went to the hospital from a venomous snake bite. How did this happen you ask? Apparently the woman bought a snake that was sewn into the lining of the jacket. Apparently it survived hours/days/months being sewn to a jacket, shipped to it's destination, driven cross-country to the store, the time spent in the back of the store, and the time on display. On top of that, the woman then didn't notice the snake? I've heard some crazy myths, but this one takes the cake.

The Snake in the Store - An Urban Legend (http://urbanlegends.about.com/od/snakes/a/snake_store.htm)



Saw this one on reddit:
Snake being pickled to create healing liquor awakens after 3 months and biteswoman | RocketNews24 (http://en.rocketnews24.com/2013/09/12/snake-being-pickled-to-create-healing-liquor-awakens-after-3-months-and-bites-woman/)

Basically, a venomous snake survives being made into liquor and sitting there for 3 months before it bites a woman when she goes to get a drink.

And of course, everyone knows the story where the *insert random snake species here* measures out its owner and plans to eat them. I even heard a version where the snake "starved itself so that it would be able to eat them."

[Mikoh4792]

In that case it would just be natural selection.

[bigsnakegirl785]

In that case it would just be natural selection.

Yes, but I'm more interested in whether or not people believe this may happening and any insight people may be able to provide. All I'm hearing is anecdotal evidence from farmers, and no scientific study.

[RandyRhoads]

I don't know about completely losing their rattle, but i've heard about them not rattling as much mainly because of the wild boar that eat them. I don't know how long boar has been hunting them, I believe they weren't always here and were introduced and took off (?) But it seems like that sort of thing would take longer to happen....

As for the other two...uh...no...?

[bigsnakegirl785]

I don't know about completely losing their rattle, but i've heard about them not rattling as much mainly because of the wild boar that eat them. I don't know how long boar has been hunting them, I believe they weren't always here and were introduced and took off (?) But it seems like that sort of thing would take longer to happen....

As for the other two...uh...no...?

That was another variant I've seen, and I also don't think it would be happening, but I'm not a herpetologist and I'm not actually out there studying them.

Yeah, the stories people come up with....

[Jim Smith]

While something somewhat similar happened in parts of south Africa during one of their civil wars, I still think it was a bit different. The "soldiers" were shooting the elephants (mainly male) on a large scale to get their tusks for ivory to sell on the black market. After a number of years, only male elephants with minimal to no tusks were available to breed so they passed along their recessive genes for tusk-less elephants. In this case, it would be as Mikoh4297 said, it's really just a case of natural selection accelerated due to man's intervention. If this were to apply to rattlesnakes then we would have to make the assumptions that:
1. There is part of the rattlesnake population that genetically does not have rattles
2. The people killing the snakes are locating them because of they are rattling
3 Fewer snakes with rattles are available to reproduce
4. There is a higher than "normal" percentage of naturally occurring rattlesnakes successfully breeding
5. The recessive gene for rattlesnakes not having rattles is increasing

That seems like a lot of assumptions based on a relatively short period of time for this genetic change in the population to occur over a widespread area. Just one man's opinion...

[RandyRhoads]

Have there been several rattlesnakes been discovered with no rattles? Not rattles that came off, but born completely without one? I wouldn't see why they would disappear. Them not rattling and alerting a predator walking by makes sense. But i'd assume once discovered they would still attempt to scare them off.

[Alexa]

I don't have any personal experience with this, but I read somewhere that, rather than being born without rattles, the snakes are just somewhat less inclined to rattle. They're still perfectly capable of rattling, but they tend not to, which makes many humans less likely to notice them.

[pdomensis]

I think this is just a myth. I think snopes.com did a write-up on it if I'm not mistaken. Rattlesnakes have been warning predators with rattling for a looong time and it's been a successful strategy. And I'll bet that far more snakes survive via rattling than those that die by giving up their location.

It's much more likely that some guy named Billy Bob found a snake that was cold and didn't rattle at him, and started a rumor that spread, than rattlesnakes changing their morphology or behavior.

(I apologize to all those named Billy Bob on the forum, but you know what I mean.)