GTP questions about behavior..help?

[Sharlynn93]

my new baby (whom I was told was hatched in June) is 12 inches long (didn't weigh)..my question is, is it normal for them to be kinda wobbly and not seem to have a lot of control over their head? She seemed to be content to hang out on her perch for the first 18 hrs an now is roaming the ground instead...temp on the perch was about 85 when she left it...I put my hand in and she crawled into it and I offered the perch to her, she immediately crawled over the perch and right back to the ground...she is now curled up behind her water dish...but she was quite actively exploring for over 2 hours..

shortly before she descended
http://i934.photobucket.com/albums/ad187/Sharlynn_Sarnoski/001_zpsfd96fbb6.jpg (http://s934.photobucket.com/user/Sharlynn_Sarnoski/media/001_zpsfd96fbb6.jpg.html)

roaming
http://i934.photobucket.com/albums/ad187/Sharlynn_Sarnoski/005_zps0e830bf1.jpg (http://s934.photobucket.com/user/Sharlynn_Sarnoski/media/005_zps0e830bf1.jpg.html)

size comparison...standard size business card...
http://i934.photobucket.com/albums/ad187/Sharlynn_Sarnoski/006_zpsc4abc220.jpg (http://s934.photobucket.com/user/Sharlynn_Sarnoski/media/006_zpsc4abc220.jpg.html)

[Mikoh4792]

Could you capture the behavior on video?(head wobble).

My green tree pythons would go to the ground from time to time. It's normal. Some will want to go on the floor more than others.

[Sharlynn93]

I can try, but now she is camped out behind the water dish...I will watch for her to come out...I emailed the breeder last night because I noticed on the ride home she went to readjust herself just as we hit a bumpy spot in the road and she partly came off the perch...she didn't seem to be able to get herself back up to the rest of her body..I had to tip the cup so she had less distance to go...could be she just hasn't developed much muscle mass since they usually stay put on a perch?

[Mikoh4792]

Can't really comment. I've never had a green tree when it was a baby. From your last thread though I think it looked just a bit skinny. Maybe it needs a few more meals to develop some strength.

[Sharlynn93]

they said it was eating 2 pinkies a week...she is due to feed, but wanted to wait a few days to give her time to settle in...hoping she goes back on the perch before then...

[Mikoh4792]

Could also be that she's insecure and wants to use the water bowl as a hide. Her enclosure is a bit open with all that space.

[Lankyrob]

Mine was fairly young when i got him, he was rather unsteady moving around until he gained some size, hArd to say without seeing yours whether it is similar tho.

[Mikoh4792]

Yeah even though GTP's are thin and lean snakes, in this pic he looks like he could use just a bit more weight.

http://i934.photobucket.com/albums/ad187/Sharlynn_Sarnoski/005_zpsbefd4678.jpg

[Lankyrob]

Yeah even though GTP's are thin and lean snakes, in this pic he looks like he could use just a bit more weight.

http://i934.photobucket.com/albums/ad187/Sharlynn_Sarnoski/005_zpsbefd4678.jpg

Possibly, doesnt seem too bad tho, couple of meals should be fine

[LarryS]

Agreeing with Mikoh, Most Green Tree keepers use smaller habitats for animals that size. A shoe box sized tub is not uncommon for the first year.

If you don't have a copy of "The More Complete Chondro" on hand, I would suggest picking one up.

Nice looking snake!

[Sharlynn93]

I tried looking for that book...but they are $40-$100...

[LarryS]

I tried looking for that book...but they are $40-$100...

Yes, in the $50 range on Amazon I think. Money well spent.

There was a Green Tree/Amazon book available from Signal Herp for 10.00 but I don't think he carries it any more.

Otherwise go over to the MVF forum and search the archives, more information on GTP's there than you could ever imagine.

Edit - PM me, I'll make you a deal on my copy of the book that you can't refuse. Always willing to help out a new keeper.

[smy_749]

If there is a tiny bit of 'wobble' when she is reaching for stuff which is somewhat far away, you may just be panicking over nothing. If its significant wobble when she is not using a significant amount of effort, then there may be an issue. Going to the ground is nothing unless she refuses to go to the perches, then you should be alarmed. Make sure you have different perches at different levels so shes not forced between 'hot perch or down to the ground' for thermoregulating options. Get a smaller enclosure, maybe add a bit more cover.

[Sharlynn93]

the wobble is when she tries to reach for things mostly...I may try lowering the perches for now...if she is still grounded in a day or 2 I will try going and getting her a small tub and see how that goes...I'm just concerned about heating a small tub...will be difficult to have a cool and hot side with the equipment I have...

[lady_bug87]

Then get new equipment. You chose this animal it didn't choose you.

Your enclosure looks massive and there doesn't seem to be much cover. That is probably contributing to the grounding issue. My green tree will ground herself periodically usually its due to changes like ambient temperature, humidity and barometric pressure. The last 4 major storms we had she hunkered down.

You're over reacting about the instability it'll grow out of it as it gains muscle strength

From the pictures it doesn't look big enough for 2 pinkies I'd start with one every 5-7 days. Make sure your husbandry is correct.

[Sharlynn93]

I added a few vines to the perches, see if that helps...I had already figured on only giving her 1 pinkie to start...I have a bunch of day old pinks in the freezer since a few of my mice went kuku and killed half their litters so I grabbed the rest before they tore into them too...I plunked a good chunk of change on the snake itself so going out and getting new equipment isn't quite as easy as it sounds....I can get a tub and use a plastic coat hanger for a perch, but buying another heat source is out till next payday and I'm worried about heating a small tub with what I have...

[KORBIN5895]

...I plunked a good chunk of change on the snake itself so going out and getting new equipment isn't quite as easy as it sounds....

This is why getting a new snake every month isn't recommended. Actually this whole thread is why getting a new snake every month is a really bad idea.

[lady_bug87]

I added a few vines to the perches, see if that helps...I had already figured on only giving her 1 pinkie to start...I have a bunch of day old pinks in the freezer since a few of my mice went kuku and killed half their litters so I grabbed the rest before they tore into them too...I plunked a good chunk of change on the snake itself so going out and getting new equipment isn't quite as easy as it sounds....I can get a tub and use a plastic coat hanger for a perch, but buying another heat source is out till next payday and I'm worried about heating a small tub with what I have...

Think about how silly that sounds.

You bought an expensive snake but a 10 dollar heat mat is out of the question. Kinda like having a really expensive purse and no money to put inside it if you ask me but hey its your choice. I can only give you tips I can't make you take them.

The vines will likely not help much. I hope it eats for you I really do.

[Sharlynn93]

i HAVE a heat mat on it now and it's not throwing heat, just wasn't sure if it would throw more in a plastic tub...and i'm sorry, there is no where around here that sells heat mats for $10...they start at $25...I DO have bills to pay and I only budgeted enough for the snake since everything I have read and was told assured me that the current equipment would be sufficient...heat and humidity is well within the spectrums I was given...and the snake seems quite active exploring the BOTTOM of the tank...I think the issue is just it doesn't like the wooden perches since it did go up on one this morning and came right back down again...going to try to find a way to make plastic ones like the one it was on in its deli cup...

[lady_bug87]

Don't get snippy.

Try PVC pipes. Easy to put together, stable, and easy to clean.

[Sharlynn93]

I wasn't being snippy...but it sure sounded like you were in the previous post...

I haven't seen PVC pipes that are smaller in diameter than these dowels I have in there..they are 3/8" rods...hubby is picking up some 1/4" on his way home from work...smaller if he can find them also and we can just up the sizes as she grows...

[thinkbig317]

I wasn't being snippy...but it sure sounded like you were in the previous post...

I haven't seen PVC pipes that are smaller in diameter than these dowels I have in there..they are 3/8" rods...hubby is picking up some 1/4" on his way home from work...smaller if he can find them also and we can just up the sizes as she grows...

Totally agree with this!

[LarryS]

Great thing to use for perches at this stage is to cut up plastic coat hangers.

Just thinking out loud here.....what if you took a shoe box (a real one) and cut one end off, and cut an access hole in it. Poke some holes and put your perches through it. Flip it upside down and put the cut off end against the side of
the tank so you can observe.

As long as the heat is right this might provide the cover it needs. Maybe could put the heat mat on the side of the tank near the box to provide a gradient.

Of course all this would need to be set up with the animal in a temporary enclosure until I is working properly.

Did you say you have a thermostat ?

[robertjnovak59]

I've always wondered about that one. If the snakes exist in the wild where there are no cage dimensions, how can a cage be too big?

[Sharlynn93]

right now I have a rheostat on a heat lamp...humidity is holding really well, still at 72 and I haven't sprayed since about 9 last night...I also have a mini heat mat attached to the side of the tank, but it really didn't seem to be throwing any heat from it...so I tried the lamp and it's working quite well...I will be getting another thermostat though, I like them much better...

I did cut a coat hanger and attached it between the current perches to see if he will use that for now until hubby gets home with replacements...but right now he seems to be snoozing and hasn't noticed it yet...doesn't seem real concerned with cover, like i said he has been really active exploring the bottom of the tank...

[lady_bug87]

I wasn't being snippy...but it sure sounded like you were in the previous post...

I haven't seen PVC pipes that are smaller in diameter than these dowels I have in there..they are 3/8" rods...hubby is picking up some 1/4" on his way home from work...smaller if he can find them also and we can just up the sizes as she grows...

OK. Give the hangers a shot. I used well secured jungle vine when I was just starting

And if I was just being snippy I'd start mentioning how stupid it is to buy animals you can't afford to house properly. The fact that I'm trying to help you come up with solutions should tell you that I'm not being anything but helpful and mildly sarcastic.

[Sharlynn93]

even the jungle vine available at our petco is much larger in diameter than the dowels...

and why am I being attacked for buying an animal and asking questions when there are others on this forum buying WAY more than I and asking WAY more questions? as far as housing it properly, i was told this setup was fine from more than 1 source before I bought it...i DID do a lot of research, etc.., but none of what I read said anything about perches being to big causing grounding issues, so I asked...I have been emailing the breeder and conferring with him also...I do not feel I am housing ANY of my animals in improper housing...as long as heat, humidity, and living space is met, how is that improper? do they have expensive custom cages? no. will they? yes. income tax is right around the corner, and 2 of them will be getting their adult enclosures at that time.

I came here asking for advice, not degradation...

[lady_bug87]

All your research and you didn't read to offer a variety of sizes when it comes to perches?

I'm not attacking I'm trying to help. I just have no people skills...

[Sharlynn93]

I really figured these were small enough...they are barely bigger than what he was on when he came...and no, none of the videos, care sheets, or verbal exchanges said anything about different size perches, just different heights...hopefully the change to the 1/4" will be the ticket for him...there is another concern I have that we noticed last night, though...his lower jaw doesn't seem quite aligned properly...idk if it is because he has been rubbing his face on the glass or what...he yawned earlier, but it didn't seem to fix it...should I be concerned about that or will it remedy itself?

truce Lori? i'm a little edgy today, was sick all day yesterday, and now had to call off work today because I am still not feeling well at all...not up to a 12 hr day in steel toes on concrete, so my patience and mental capacity is not in its best form... :(

[lady_bug87]

Sure why not?

The jaw problem doesn't sound fun. Can you get a picture?

[Sharlynn93]

I will try...right now he seems to be snoozing with his face towards the back of the tank, so not sure if I can get the angle...once he starts roaming again I will...

this one kinda shows it...
http://i934.photobucket.com/albums/ad187/Sharlynn_Sarnoski/001_zpsfd96fbb6.jpg (http://s934.photobucket.com/user/Sharlynn_Sarnoski/media/001_zpsfd96fbb6.jpg.html)

[lady_bug87]

Hmmm it looks kind of swollen but that could just be the picture. Does it look like a snagged tooth?

[Sharlynn93]

I couldn't get close enough to have a good look at it :( I will try later...

[Sharlynn93]

members of the GTP forum I posted to last night are telling me he looks like he is in shed, judging from the wrinkles...either that or dehydrated from being at the show and traveling to and from...could be the shed starting at the mouth, also...he has been rubbing that side of his face against the side of the tank...

[Terranaut]

So I just went through this and have a couple things to say.
This is exactly why I tell people to make sure they have the enclosure first and set it up with perfect husbandry BEFORE acquiring the snake to go inside. Lori's purse analogy is perfect. You bought a Ferrari but complain about it using gas. Slow down on the new snake purchases. Be sure your ready for a new animal before bringing it home.

Note: thos is not a personal attack but rather stuff I would tell a new keeper and many would be keepers could potentially read this so I feel itiimportant they learn from this before they have issues.

[lady_bug87]

I agree with them,

But no. The jaw issue is unrelated. If there is swelling than there is a risk of infection. Without seeing it personally or without a really good picture I can't really help. The rubbing is a sign of stress. Has it opened its mouth to yawn? When did you notice this?

[Sharlynn93]

I noticed it last night after dinner...he yawned once this morning that I saw...it didn't look like the mouth opening for breathing like with an RI like I observed with Iris...just looked like a typical yawn...it was moving each side of the mouth independently like after eating...

[Sharlynn93]

Crappy phone pic

[dbank999]

I don't have a GTP, nor am I familiar with them, but that picture to me warrrants a trip to the vet.. Just doesn't look right IMO

It almost looks like there is some substrate sticking out from the mouth (see attached photo) but it could just be the brown speckling in his/her pattern. Hard to tell with the image quality.

Ethier way, I think a check up at the vet would be your best bet.

[Sharlynn93]

i do believe it is substrate...I am a little worried about taking it to the vet...he has helped me in the past but really isn't a herp vet and I am terrified it will be injured worse by being handled while there...i'm sure the vet has no experience with this species....

[Starbuck]

what about offering it a feed, to see if the act of eating the mouse will dislodge the snagged tooth/peice of substrate?

if that doesn't fix the problem, or it refuses to eat, you may have to start worrying about an infection or broken tooth, abscess, etc (in which case a vet WOULD be needed). I would call your vet and see if they know of the closest reptile specialist. Most vets want to do what is best for the animal and won't balk at trying to connect with someone better qualified to treat your snake. I would also start trying to save up, if financials are a concern, so that if you do need to go to a vet you can pursue treatment as needed.

[Sharlynn93]

I tried feeding last night but he really didn't wanna eat...i chalked it up to stress and acclimation...I did a google search and it could just be a tooth stuck on a scale, or misaligned from when it tagged me when I was putting the vines in...I am going to remove the substrate when hubby gets home with the new dowels and put in paper towels...if he cooperates i may try irrigating the substrate out with an eye dropper...

[Terranaut]

Well your going to have to handle it and using a plastic spatula or a q-tip with cotton off to pry its mouth open. Do it with a friend and take pics of what you see. If it is something stuck just remove it. Don't pay a vet tonjust be the guy to get your snakes mouth open. Pay the vet to figure out if its an infection. Could be an abscess in which case a vet will have to lance it and flush it out.

[Sharlynn93]

thanks Terranaut..I will have my hubby try and snap a pic while I hold him...he keeps rubbing that side of his face on the glass like he's trying to either push it back or dislodge something...so maybe he will correct it, too...

[lady_bug87]

OK

No perching usually means no eating.

That looks pretty bad. I'm thinking its a broken tooth or snagged. It looks pretty swollen.

If the snake has An infection it needs to see a vet. I would just take it

[LarryS]

The only precaution I would have there is to make sure the vet has chondro knowledge/experience. These animals are very fragile at this size.

You have received some great advise here and on the other forum, it would be wise to take it all in and follow as close as possible. This little bugger has a lot going against it right now and any correction that can be made will be a step in the right direction.

Hope to see some good news soon!

[Sharlynn93]

vet is closed for the day today...I will try and check it out like Terranaut said and see what we find...

[KORBIN5895]

Something just doesn't seem right...

[Mikoh4792]

Sharlynn are you using a heat lamp for a heat source?

I know you said you are tight on money but in the future I would suggest a radiant heat panel instead. Even if the cage humidity is high, whatever is under that lamp will be getting dried out... like laundry in the sun. RHP's give off a more gentle heat and the actual heat source does not get as hot as a light bulb so it's safe to use inside the actual enclosure.


^ Probably not a solution to your problem but just a pointer for more efficient husbandry techniques in the future.


And a plastic enclosure would also be much better to use in conjuction with an RHP

[LarryS]

Something just doesn't seem right...

I agree. Spidey senses are tinglin. Hope all ends well.

[Sharlynn93]

I did move him to a tub...have a mini heat mat on the side right now, but the temp is still real low...snake room is warmer than out here, so I will move him in there and see where the temp goes...I have been talking to the breeder and he is helping me figure things out...his last shed was between Christmas and New Years while they were away visiting family so he very well could be shedding...

[lady_bug87]

Something just doesn't seem right...

You would be correct. Its thin, possibly dehydrated, I will wager that this mouth problem was existing from purchase.

These animals are extremely delicate and a lot can go wrong very fast.

When I bought mine there were 5 in total. Mine is one of 2 that made it past year 1

[lady_bug87]

I did move him to a tub...have a mini heat mat on the side right now, but the temp is still real low...snake room is warmer than out here, so I will move him in there and see where the temp goes...I have been talking to the breeder and he is helping me figure things out...his last shed was between Christmas and New Years while they were away visiting family so he very well could be shedding...

Is it perching in the bin?

[Sharlynn93]

not yet...breeder walked me through clearing the substrate from its mouth and from what I can see through the side of the bin, it looks like it realigned its mouth...its curled up behind its water dish...hoping by morning he will climb up onto a perch...

[lady_bug87]

If you still see swelling than you still have an issue

[dbank999]

Any updates?

I feel like I see threads for various medical conditions seeking help, but never a follow up to make sure everything worked out..

There was one thread in the recent months regarding a ball python that had about an inch worth of scales pulled back with raw skin showing underneath at the neck, no word on what happened to that poor guy.

(This isn't a personal attack, just something I've noticed and want to bring attention to:rolleyes:)

[kwhitlock]

Any updates?

I feel like I see threads for various medical conditions seeking help, but never a follow up to make sure everything worked out..

There was one thread in the recent months regarding a ball python that had about an inch worth of scales pulled back with raw skin showing underneath at the neck, no word on what happened to that poor guy.

(This isn't a personal attack, just something I've noticed and want to bring attention to:rolleyes:)

Not to jack the thread but that ball python was in such sad shape from that..I couldn't believe that happened..

[Sharlynn93]

I am following the breeders advice by just leaving it alone, so no real big updates...bin is in snake room (on opposite side of room from my others) and is covered with a dark towel...peeked once this morning, no perching, but is off the floor and is hiding in the plant...so i'm hoping that is progress...he didn't seem to think there was any swelling in the pics, just misaligned...he has had it happen dozens of times with bites, they usually correct themselves or when it eats it will go back, but we will address that once we get him to perch and de-stress...stressing him out is only making the situation 10x worse...he thinks taking him to a vet at this point will just stress him beyond survival, and especially since there are no vets within a 3 to 4 hr drive that are experienced with this species...breeder was a snake keeper at a zoo for years, and did 90% of the medical care on them since the zoo vet was also not a herp vet...

I did get detailed records from him on feeds and his last shed, hatch date, etc...so its a waiting game now...sorry for not updating but I really didn't feel like battling with people anymore...this forum used to be fun, but lately all I see is a lot of bashing and a lot of new members bailing because of it...this forum has a wealth of knowledge and I can't imagine not having it as a resource but its very disconcerting to know that at any moment one can be made the target of the day...therefore I have refrained from posting and am just enjoying reading and learning... will update more once things progress.

[KORBIN5895]

Who is the breeder?

[Mikoh4792]

Who is the breeder?

this????????

[lady_bug87]

I am following the breeders advice by just leaving it alone, so no real big updates...bin is in snake room (on opposite side of room from my others) and is covered with a dark towel...peeked once this morning, no perching, but is off the floor and is hiding in the plant...so i'm hoping that is progress...he didn't seem to think there was any swelling in the pics, just misaligned...he has had it happen dozens of times with bites, they usually correct themselves or when it eats it will go back, but we will address that once we get him to perch and de-stress...stressing him out is only making the situation 10x worse...he thinks taking him to a vet at this point will just stress him beyond survival, and especially since there are no vets within a 3 to 4 hr drive that are experienced with this species...breeder was a snake keeper at a zoo for years, and did 90% of the medical care on them since the zoo vet was also not a herp vet...

I did get detailed records from him on feeds and his last shed, hatch date, etc...so its a waiting game now...sorry for not updating but I really didn't feel like battling with people anymore...this forum used to be fun, but lately all I see is a lot of bashing and a lot of new members bailing because of it...this forum has a wealth of knowledge and I can't imagine not having it as a resource but its very disconcerting to know that at any moment one can be made the target of the day...therefore I have refrained from posting and am just enjoying reading and learning... will update more once things progress.

I take offense to this. I took time out of MY day to help YOU. Multiple times.

I gave you suggestions OK not in the most polite way but I tried to give you solid info.

Good luck.

[Sharlynn93]

I take offense to this. I took time out of MY day to help YOU. Multiple times.

I gave you suggestions OK not in the most polite way but I tried to give you solid info.

Good luck.

maybe you should try changing delivery tactics if you want people to be grateful, I for one cannot fathom thanking someone for being ignorant to me... and by saying the snake was sick before i got it already puts the breeder in a bad light, so out of respect for him i will not post his name. there have been a couple people i pm'ed his name. i searched him and found articles about his knowledge...he and his wife are both zoologists, herpetologists, on top of their own personal careers, and use their snakes in educational programs as well...so I feel pretty confident he knows his snakes..

[lady_bug87]

maybe you should try changing delivery tactics if you want people to be grateful, I for one cannot fathom thanking someone for being ignorant to me... and by saying the snake was sick before i got it already puts the breeder in a bad light, so out of respect for him i will not post his name. there have been a couple people i pm'ed his name. i searched him and found articles about his knowledge...he and his wife are both zoologists, herpetologists, on top of their own personal careers, and use their snakes in educational programs as well...so I feel pretty confident he knows his snakes..


If it was swollen (to me it honestly did look swollen) and it had an infection it would have gotten it before you bought it right?

They could be snake geniuses but they don't own it. You do. Its up to you to get it eating, its up to you to get it to thrive. Not me or them or anyone else. YOU.

I don't care if you're grateful. Its not going to stop me from saying what I think needs saying.

[Sharlynn93]

calling people stupid isn't the way to go about offering advice...

as stated, they are quite knowledgeable about snakes...and this species...he assured me that setup was fine...i told him what i had available...sent him pics after set up...he approved...said many others have used the same setups for starting out...i understand tubs may be better, and maybe i should have went that route from the beginning...but calling me stupid was just wrong...

everyone has their ways they do things...doesn't mean that is the ONLY way to do it...if you offer advice but the person goes another route, it sure does not warrant name calling, insulting, etc...and that is not directed towards any 1 person...i see it a lot anymore...

[Sharlynn93]

thought I would update...Absolem has been perched quite nicely for about 24 hrs...seems to be perched in "hunt mode"...I will attempt to feed in the next day or so...jaw seems to be ok from what I can see through the side of the tub...he didn't budge when I misted his tub tonight, so all looks good...I also had a wonderful member here provide me with a copy of Greg Maxwell's book and have been perusing it all evening :)

[Kera]

thought I would update...Absolem has been perched quite nicely for about 24 hrs...seems to be perched in "hunt mode"...I will attempt to feed in the next day or so...jaw seems to be ok from what I can see through the side of the tub...he didn't budge when I misted his tub tonight, so all looks good...I also had a wonderful member here provide me with a copy of Greg Maxwell's book and have been perusing it all evening :)

Awesome news, glad to hear all is going well. :)

[Big_V]

thought I would update...Absolem has been perched quite nicely for about 24 hrs...seems to be perched in "hunt mode"...I will attempt to feed in the next day or so...jaw seems to be ok from what I can see through the side of the tub...he didn't budge when I misted his tub tonight, so all looks good...I also had a wonderful member here provide me with a copy of Greg Maxwell's book and have been perusing it all evening :)

Sorry to chime in so late,

"THE BOOK" is a good start. Head over to MVF forum too. The chondro game has changed a lot since Greg wrote that stuff, even if it is the MORE complete chondro.

I would advise against attempting to feed for at least another few days. Yes the creature may be hungry, you want it to be.
So like you stated earlier, neos tend to go throw head swelling before they shed, it can be very tough to tell in yellow neos. The jaw thing is probably due to a feeding strike, even my 2.5 yr old during the night sometimes smacks the door thinking something is there. It happens, they are wired to feed like that. Most of the time any jaw issues correct themselves over time, that one you had was pretty mild.

Tanks are for fish, there are a lot of nice PVC cages out there for when it gets a bit bigger or you have the money. Bulbs tend to add to dehydration issues in chondros, which in turn can lead to RI or prolapse issues.

Radiant heat panels, a good rubbermaid or PVC tub and you will find a lot of issues just disappear.

My truly honest opinion is your little one is having a real tough time getting settled in due to husbandry issues that were not dealt with off the start properly. It looks to be very dehydrated, and the humidity should be a lot higher for that little one. Look at some of the climate data for PNG and Indo.
You will noticed 85 to 87 highs and 78-80 lows, with DAILY rainstorms. If you have a bulb at 90-92 and only 72% humidity you are playing with dehydration already.

Just my opinion, take what you will from it. Congrats on the new addition.

[Sharlynn93]

that picture was taken before I even got it home...my humidity has been hovering 95-99% since I got it...he has been drinking droplets here and there and has passed some urates...he has been quite active moving from perch to perch, etc..have not attempted a 2nd feed...waiting to observe him going into "hunt mode" and see what happens then...the tub he is in is way to small to put a RHP in...and a mini UTH takes up a whole end of the tub, but throws virtually no heat...i have a heat bulb on a rheostat that is set up so it shines just towards the end of the tub...IR temp readings are 88 at the spot closest to the bulb on the perch, 85 on the side furthest away, and the cool side is reading 80 but drops to about 77 at night...

[Mikoh4792]

Breeders I've talked to said that temps over 85f just dehydrate and overheat chondros.

Humidity also does not need to be as high as 95%. If your hottest temps are around 85F you can keep them around 60-70% with humidity spikes in the morning when you mist the enclosure.

^ those are the guidelines I've used for keeping my chondros and it's served me well. When humidity is as high as 95-95% it becomes a breeding ground for bacteria, which is obviously not good.

[Sharlynn93]

i will turn it down a bit then...i had the humidity higher because everyone says he is dehydrated, but i can drop that too...he hasn't seemed to use the water dish, but seems to like licking the droplets...even misting once a day keeps the humidity that high, though...should i add a few tiny holes in the lid to keep it a bit lower?

[Mikoh4792]

No if your enclosure is that good at retaining humidity I wouldn't change a thing, just not mist as often. The key is to create humidity spikes, so it can go up to 100% if you want for a few hours before dropping back to normal levels. It's only bad when it says that high for long periods of time(For bacteria and fungi to grow).

And from what I have seen gtp's and carpet pythons do seem to enjoy lapping up droplets on the cage walls more than drinking from a water bowl. But still, I've seen both drink both ways. My GTP's will even drink from their body if I mist them directly but I don't do it anymore since they freak out lol.

[Sharlynn93]

the few times i misted Ab directly he seemed to like it...never budged and would lick some droplets...lol...he seems to be actually doing quite well, just wish he would eat...from the feeding schedule they gave me he hasn't eaten now in 4 weeks...kinda worries me...but i'm sure since he seems to be acting fine otherwise now, i'm figuring he should go into hunt mode soon...he did strike at the pinkie a few times the other night, but all he did was throw it to the ground...so i decided to let him go for a few more days...

[Mikoh4792]

I wouldn't worry about it too much. 4 weeks isn't something to get worried about, I've had new arrivals go for several weeks without food before eating... so whenver I get an animal that won't eat I don't stress about it as much.....they will take eventually as long as husbandry is correct.

Another thing is to not try feeding too often, that can stress him out. Try feeding him once a week, at night(that's when they go into hunting mode). A lot of people say that the temperature of the prey item isn't important but I've noticed my snakes that have heat pits eat more readily with their mice/rat is nice and warm.

[Sharlynn93]

yeah, the more I read and the more feedback I get, the more relaxed I am getting...I appreciate all the help :) the book is helping a lot, plus I have gone to the MVP forum and have been searching different things and reading also...just wish the UTH would have thrown more heat, I'm not liking the lamp thing...but really don't know what else I could use in a tub that small...

[Mikoh4792]

if anything I'd get an enclosure big enough to accomodate an RHP. Or atleast a tub big enough for one.

With a 28 watt rhp you could get a tub or enclosure about as big as a 2 foot cube give or take. Then fill it with a bunch of perches and vines for cover. It will be much easier to maintain the right conditions.

[Sharlynn93]

once I get him settled enough to eat a meal or two I will do that...I don't wanna move him so soon again :( on another note, I have been looking up arboreal cages...not really liking a lot of the ones I see, and quite expensive...how are the exo-terra ones? they had those at the expo..18x18x18 ones...I know thats not big enough for an adult, but i'm sure they make them bigger? any suggestions?

[Mikoh4792]

I don't think moving him again will be much of a problem, it's the shipping that is stressful. It's just best to move him into a better setup asap.

which ones have you looked up?(arboreal cages). With green tree's length is still more important than height. A 4x2x2high will serve one better than a 2x2x4high. Green trees move horizontally from branch to branch more often than up and down.

I'm not a fan of glass cages for tropical species, plus with plastic enclosures you have more options for perching. You can drill holes in the sides to make for a more naturalistic perching system.


For example this is a stack I have and all the cages have perches using eye and hook screws. Can't do that with glass.

http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/a594/mikoh4792/DSC_1047_zpsc3ce5f4c.jpg

[Sharlynn93]

i looked up AP, boamaster, and boaphiles...popped into a few other sites that google brought up, but they were kinda crappy...may end up building one...was just looking at the RHP's on Reptile Basics...if I were to ultimately get a 3x2x2 or a 3x2x1.5 final enclosure how big of a RHP would it take to heat that?

[Big_V]

Roughneck® Clear 66 Qt: (#3R42)
Size: 26.7" L x 15.7" W x 14" H

These are what I use for my neos. They are big yes, but you can fit in a RBI 28watt radiant heat panel by mounting it to the lid or the 40watt depending on house temp and where you live. VIOLA !!

Please ditch the lamp, your chondro will thank you tremendously.

This thing will take a while to grow so dont worry about adult setups yet. Get it rock solid for the first two years in a tub THEN make the move.

[Mikoh4792]

i looked up AP, boamaster, and boaphiles...popped into a few other sites that google brought up, but they were kinda crappy...may end up building one...was just looking at the RHP's on Reptile Basics...if I were to ultimately get a 3x2x2 or a 3x2x1.5 final enclosure how big of a RHP would it take to heat that?

AP is definitely a good brand. So is PVCcages (they are the cages in the picture I just posted). Or constrictors NW.

Building one would also be an option.

For my 3x2x2 I would use either a 40 or 80 watt. I use 40 watt RHP's because I need my hotspot to be 90F or higher. With a hotspot of 85F i'd imagine an 80 watt would be good.

Does it get cold in the winter where you live?

[Sharlynn93]

that was exactly the info i was looking for Big V...thanks...I would rather get the 40watt and regulate it with a thermostat than get one that once I upgrade will be of no use to me...I will order one this week...may just put it on my credit card so I can order it today...the sooner I ditch the lamp the better...I'm not liking it at all...it worries me more than the not eating...

[Sharlynn93]

yes, gets very cold...my snake room is always the warmest room in the house, never gets below 70 in there...drops to about 66 everywhere else on the first floor...

[Big_V]

that was exactly the info i was looking for Big V...thanks...I would rather get the 40watt and regulate it with a thermostat than get one that once I upgrade will be of no use to me...I will order one this week...may just put it on my credit card so I can order it today...the sooner I ditch the lamp the better...I'm not liking it at all...it worries me more than the not eating...

I use the 40w in my tubs. Just put the panel to one side, add a water dish under the RHP and one on the other side. Then you wont be spraying as much.

They drink water off themselves but they use waterbowls just like any other snake. They just do it at night, or when the water is freshly changed. I sometimes see mine drinking for 30 seconds to a minute at a time.

[Sharlynn93]

awesome...thanks!!!

[Sharlynn93]

RHP and thermostat is ordered (along with an extra stat in case of failure of any of our others) will be shopping for a tub tomorrow, and will get everything ready...stuff should be here by friday...

[Sharlynn93]

we decided to return Absolem to the breeder. He has not acted "right" since we got him...we were led to believe he was an established, well feeding animal, but upon receipt of his records a few days after bringing him home, we found out he was 29 weeks old, and only had 10 sporadic feedings...was super tiny, very thin, and we didn't feel he was going to thrive with us...we received a refund, and will someday in the future find a more reputable breeder and get a truly established yearling...thanks for all the help everyone...

[Kera]

Good choice. Good luck with finding a new baby.

[psychocircus]

I think a yearling suits the average snake collector much better.

[Sharlynn93]

Thanks, guys. Really disappointed that it didn't work out...but someday we will have one, I'm sure...

[lady_bug87]

we decided to return Absolem to the breeder. He has not acted "right" since we got him...we were led to believe he was an established, well feeding animal, but upon receipt of his records a few days after bringing him home, we found out he was 29 weeks old, and only had 10 sporadic feedings...was super tiny, very thin, and we didn't feel he was going to thrive with us...we received a refund, and will someday in the future find a more reputable breeder and get a truly established yearling...thanks for all the help everyone...

Impossible! The breeders were zoologists! How could the neonate not be PERFECT? They KNOW their animals. How could you say they sent you a neonate with previous issues... that's insulting to the zoologist breeders.

That was sarcasm.

[Sharlynn93]

I had to go by what they told me for a reasonable amount of time, Lori, or I would have been stuck with the whole "you did not do things how I told you" thing. I was watching my back. I gave it some time, while still expressing my concerns, and convinced them finally to refund. The advice here was solid. I know that. But the animal was obviously not quite right so I did exactly what they said...lesson learned...I will not buy another GTP until I find a reputable breeder with a truly established animal. I'm sure I am not the 1st person to give into an impulse buy at an expo, especially when given the credentials of their degrees and experience with the animals. Just apparently they didn't have much actual "breeding" experience...

[Mikoh4792]

I can give you a few reccomendations.

[Sharlynn93]

That would be great :) we will wait a bit, get a full running setup going for a good amount of time to make SURE everything is perfect...all the gauges, probes, everything tells me things were spot on this time, but confidence wanes when things don't go right...ya know? Really disappointed...was so looking forward to watching "him" grow and change....I WILL be reusing his name, though...we loved that name...Lol

[CosmicOwl]

Impossible! The breeders were zoologists! How could the neonate not be PERFECT? They KNOW their animals. How could you say they sent you a neonate with previous issues... that's insulting to the zoologist breeders.

That was sarcasm.

But was the sarcasm necessary?

[KORBIN5895]

we decided to return Absolem to the breeder. He has not acted "right" since we got him...we were led to believe he was an established, well feeding animal, but upon receipt of his records a few days after bringing him home, we found out he was 29 weeks old, and only had 10 sporadic feedings...was super tiny, very thin, and we didn't feel he was going to thrive with us...we received a refund, and will someday in the future find a more reputable breeder and get a truly established yearling...thanks for all the help everyone...

Yet another" breeder" to avoid...