Help!! Lung Infection!

[BIGT FROM F.B.]

:(My Brazilian Rainbow is making a popping sound when he exhales and has to open his mouth sometimes. There are no bubbles yet, but I need to know what to do. I have the tank properly heated at one end with a heat lamp and a heat pad underneath. I use the Aspen bedding and have soaked it during the last week to help his shed. Could this have made him sick? I had a Ball Python once that did the same thing and even took it to a herp vet. It still died. I don't want to lose this one the same way. PLEASE HELP!!

[Sharlynn93]

my CRB was doing the same thing...get him to a vet and get an antibiotic...one thing i did that really seemed to help until the vet appt was i took boiling water and put some vicks vaporub in it (i used the baby vicks) make sure it is somewhere he can't touch it, but the vapors cleared her up so well the vet had trouble hearing her wheeze by the time i got her there...

[Terranaut]

There is a great diy on here for doing just that. It worked on my BCI perfectly. You need a large tub and a small one full of holes to do it correctly. I won't say not to go to a vet but I chose this over the vet and it was 2 years ago and my snake is very healthy.

[kwhitlock]

Ditch the heat lamp, and you need to get you BRB, off of aspen. If you can keep 80%+ humidity in that setup, Youd make a believer out of me! Still take your animal to the vet, but my guess is that your humidity in the enclosure is far from where it needs to be. Can you post temps that your keeping your BRB at?

[Sharlynn93]

Ditch the heat lamp, and you need to get you BRB, off of aspen. If you can keep 80%+ humidity in that setup, Youd make a believer out of me! Still take your animal to the vet, but my guess is that your humidity in the enclosure is far from where it needs to be. Can you post temps that your keeping your BRB at?

^^^this too! I switched all my rainbows to eco-earth...holds the humidity in the 90's consistently as long as you don't have a screen lid...if you do, put plexiglass or something over the screen and that will build the humidity...aspen sucks the humidity right out of everything, including the snake...

[kwhitlock]

^^^this too! I switched all my rainbows to eco-earth...holds the humidity in the 90's consistently as long as you don't have a screen lid...if you do, put plexiglass or something over the screen and that will build the humidity...aspen sucks the humidity right out of everything, including the snake...

Exactly, I have my Hondo on Ecoearth with a screen top covered with two towels and a heat lamp, most I've ever had is 50%, my house is incredibly dry though.

[MDT]

Vet gonna need to do culture of respiratory secretions to identify if bacterial (antibiotics) or viral (supportive care)...get to a vet asap.

[BIGT FROM F.B.]

Thanks for the responses, everyone. How in the world can I keep the humidity that high with a lamp and pad? Don't I need to keep the heat up on one end? I have a 20long with a screen top and the temp stays about 85-90 on the one end during the day. The lamp is off at night with just the pad on. My snakes seem to keep to the cool side to begin with. How do I keep humidity up with the heat source to keep from drying out? Also, a few days ago, I treated him for mites and totally cleaned his cage out with new bedding and all. I put repti-safe in the water as well. I did clean the cage with windex before I wiped it all down and put him back in. I hope that didn't cause it. Hope I've given enough info. Keep responding!!

[Sharlynn93]

cover the screen lid with damp towels...I would ditch the aspen bedding and put paper towels in, saturate them with water...keep those towels damp...what kind of thermometer are you using? the sticky analog ones are consistently wrong...they don't measure the temp of the substrate...

[BIGT FROM F.B.]

Yes, just the analog one. Obviously, these Rainbows need more dramatic conditions to be kept in. Do I need to get one of the "cube" type enclosure with the doors on the front? Don't they have humidity foggers/pumps to attach to those kinds?

[kwhitlock]

Thanks for the responses, everyone. How in the world can I keep the humidity that high with a lamp and pad? Don't I need to keep the heat up on one end? I have a 20long with a screen top and the temp stays about 85-90 on the one end during the day. The lamp is off at night with just the pad on. My snakes seem to keep to the cool side to begin with. How do I keep humidity up with the heat source to keep from drying out? Also, a few days ago, I treated him for mites and totally cleaned his cage out with new bedding and all. I put repti-safe in the water as well. I did clean the cage with windex before I wiped it all down and put him back in. I hope that didn't cause it. Hope I've given enough info. Keep responding!!

Your temps are to high, over 85 starts getting deadly for a BRB. for a BRB about 80 is perfect. You need to cover the top with either damp towels, cardboard, acrilic, or glass. You HAVE TO LIMIT THE AIR FLOW. I would recomend ditching the 20 gallon long and get a big rubbermaid tub and get some eco earth or reptibark. Get rid of the heat lamp, causing more harm then good. Drill some holes on the sides for some air, just a couple not alot. If you want I can post my enclosure and show you. You have to at the least have 80% or higher. If your afraid of it still drying out, get a box your snake can go into and put damp sagph moss in it.

[BIGT FROM F.B.]

So, basically, get rid of the heat lamp but keep the pad. Cover the screen completely with damp towels. Will Eco earth keep humidity better than Aspen as mentioned before? How will the high humidity keep mold/mildew from growing, compounding the problem? Will a vet be able to help him to begin with? Obviously, I am used to keeping snakes like kings, corns, milks that may not require such drastic conditions. I may even get a bio cube with a humidity pump if it leads to that. All suggestions from you guys will be helpful to me.

[shaunyboy]

Vet gonna need to do culture of respiratory secretions to identify if bacterial (antibiotics) or viral (supportive care)...get to a vet asap.

^^^^^
this is the best course of action regards the resparitory infection

i only keep Carpet Pythons so i cannot help you with your brb husbandry...

that said,you have had some great advice from others in this thread

i would correct any husbandry problems,then take the snake to the vets

cheers shaun

[kwhitlock]

So, basically, get rid of the heat lamp but keep the pad. Cover the screen completely with damp towels. Will Eco earth keep humidity better than Aspen as mentioned before? How will the high humidity keep mold/mildew from growing, compounding the problem? Will a vet be able to help him to begin with? Obviously, I am used to keeping snakes like kings, corns, milks that may not require such drastic conditions. I may even get a bio cube with a humidity pump if it leads to that. All suggestions from you guys will be helpful to me.

First off a vet is firstly required. But the vet is only gonna help so much if you odnt have the right conditions. But yes cover the top limit ventilation, and ecoearth with keep the enclosure very humid, on ecoearth you have to keep an eye on molding. I use reptibark and the lowest my humidity is 90% constant, my house is about 9% RL humdity. During summer and spring I suspect it to be at 100. But another option would be cryprus mulch, holds humidity well and it will NOT mold. My opinion is to if you want to keep the 20 gallon, get a piece of acrylic to cover the top if you chose to put only a few small holes for air ventilation. I would personally ditch the tank and get a professional cage or a $10 plastic tub.

Goodluck man keep us posted. Ask any other question you have.

[Saber402]

Having two BRB's I have to agree to #1 ditch the lamp. Does nothing but kill any humidity you may have. Second, the Aspen does not hold moisture at all. It quickly loses any moisture you put in. Also, if you keep soaking, it will develop mold quickly as well. Use a substrate meant for holding humidity such as coconut husk or echo bark for example.

When very young the humidity should remain around 90%. I keep mine around 75 - 80% and have no problems, bumping it up towards 90% when shedding. Sheds are always good.

Next, as mentioned above do not have your temp's exceed 85 degrees as it is indeed lethal to BRB's. Try to keep your warm side around 78 - 82 and your cool side between 75 - 80.

Do you have a humid box for him? This will give him a humid place to go. Use a small shoebox size sterilite tub with a hole on the side big enough for him to go through. Put 3 or 4 "small" holes in the top for some ventilation. Put a handful of damp sphagnum moss inside. Check it every day or so and mist lightly if it is becoming dry.

Placing your water dish over the UTH will increase your humidity as well

You said you have a screen top. Is it a slide-in or one that drops onto the top? If it drops over the top, replace it with 1/4 inch Acrylic/Plexiglas. You will need to carefully put a half dozen 1/4 inch holes in it, again for ventilation.

You can get a glass tank to work! I have used this setup for both of my BRB's for over a year. And once I got the husbandry set up right, it is no harder to take care of than any of my ball pythons. You just have to watch the conditions and adjust accordingly.

Most importantly get your snake to a vet to make sure it is going to be OK.

Good luck!

[BIGT FROM F.B.]

Thanks Saber. I will take out the lamp, change the bedding and make a box to hold most of the humidity. I am awaiting the vet to contact me in the morning. I will post the progress and it becomes available. Hope the vet can start off by helping.

[BIGT FROM F.B.]

Well, the vet said I caught it very early. As soon as I heard the popping, we went. We discussed the good advice all of you have given me and you all were right on! She liked the astro turf for the bedding but agreed it would be impossible to keep the humidity up like that. I have to administer 4 shots over the next 8 days for the infection. He was pissed and bit everything around him afterwards. Should be interesting....

[Sharlynn93]

lucky you! I was given a 7 day course of ORAL antibiotics...try wrestling a 4ft boa in BLUE who hasn't acclimated to being in a new home yet...getting to open her mouth was such a treat! she still won't let me touch her head since, and it has been 2 months...LOL..

glad to hear he is going to be ok :D

[BIGT FROM F.B.]

Okay. Got the Eco Earth in. Stuff is nasty!!! Humidity is 81%, temp is 78F. Have the water bowl on the heat pad end, took the heat lamp off and just put a small halogen lamp about 8 inches above the tank. Have damp towels for now covering about 70% of the tank. Will this Eco Earth need wetting everyday, several times a day, or keep pretty good constant humidity? Am now looking for plexi-glass to put holes in and cover the top enough to keep conditions stable. Any other suggestions?

[Sharlynn93]

if you start noticing it looking dry, spray it down...mine only needs sprayed about once every 2 weeks, but I have the plexi-glass on mine...yours may need it more often until you get that in place...if you have a lowes or home depot, they have it, and will cut it to size for you...

[kwhitlock]

Good to hear it went good!

[BIGT FROM F.B.]

Update & concerns. Finished all of the Antibiotic injections this past Friday. I have replaced the substrate with Eco Earth, got rid of the heat lamp, placed damp towels on the screen top and moved the water bowl over the UTH. The temp on the cool side is 74 and on the warm side is 80. Humidity is from 85-90%. It looks like he's dry and chalky when looking at him, even though it's plenty humid in there. He hasn't touched a mouse in 2 weeks and seems a lot thinner. Will the medicine do this? He seems to move around well enough and isn't irritated when picked up. Just want to make sure nothing is out of the ordinary. Have a follow up appt. this Saturday. Just doesn't look "normal" since his illness.

[Starbuck]

He could be gearing up for a shed, and sometimes medications, especially antibiotics, can cause nausea and make an animal unwilling to eat. Keep handling to a bare minimum until he is eating and looking normal again, and you can try braining the prey item to make it more appealing (if you're doing ft), and make sure it is nice and hot!

[Sharlynn93]

my CRB didn't eat for a month after finishing the antibiotic...not sure if its just a coincidence or if it was truly a result of the illness and treatment...

[MDT]

What did the culture of the respiratory secretions grow out?

[BIGT FROM F.B.]

What did the culture of the respiratory secretions grow out?

I don't really know. The vet just gave the syringes and showed me what to do.

[BIGT FROM F.B.]

Does anyone live or know someone with knowledge of the BRB that lives near Flowery Branch, GA? I would feel better if someone would come take a look at my little guy. Starting to get a little more worried. He's looking dry like a piece of chalk and is getting pretty skinny, even though all the conditions are right as mentioned before.

[MDT]

regardless of "right" conditions...you are giving antibiotic injections to fight off an unknown infection. if your snake has a respiratory virus, there is no antibiotic in the world that will fix that. a culture of the secretions should have been done to isolate and identify what type of infection you are trying to treat.

i hope things turn the corner for your BRB...sorry you are having to go through this.

[Terranaut]

Are you able to post a video? Or some good pictures at least?

[BIGT FROM F.B.]

Here are picture from tonight. You really can't tell the "chalky" color from the camera, but he looks like he's going into shed. All he does is stay curled in a ball, even when I put him back in his enclosure about 20 minutes ago.

[MDT]

looks like going into shed to me...

[BIGT FROM F.B.]

looks like going into shed to me...

Yeah, but he shed 2 weeks ago and hasn't eaten since.

[MDT]

I have had a couple of times, a snake go into "early ecdysis" (not sure that is a real term)...basically one shed very quickly after a previous shed. They didn't seem any worse for the wear and did fine long after the episode. Not sure what to make of it.

Truly hope all is well, nice looking BRB.

[Starbuck]

Ive seen the same thing mdt when I ' rescued ' my Honduran milk snake who wasn't kept with any heat or humidity. She shed twice very quickly (10 days apart I think?) After she was well supported. Granted she had a wound, but I imagine it could be something similar (open isn't the snake fairly new to you)?

Hoping for the best, good luck.

[BIGT FROM F.B.]

Yes. I've only had this one for 2 months and have never had a species that required such high humidity. I'm working on it though. Just hope he gets better. Have a follow up appt. tomorrow morning to see how he's doing.

Didn't I see someone post that the Eco Earth crushed coconut shells will not grow mold? Since I put it in 2 weeks ago, there is still sweating against the glass inside the bedding. I guess that's a good thing?

BTW, I really appreciate the response on this site! I am a member of forums on all the vehicles I own and can't nearly get this kind of help on those. GREAT FORUM!!!

[kwhitlock]

Yes. I've only had this one for 2 months and have never had a species that required such high humidity. I'm working on it though. Just hope he gets better. Have a follow up appt. tomorrow morning to see how he's doing.

Didn't I see someone post that the Eco Earth crushed coconut shells will not grow mold? Since I put it in 2 weeks ago, there is still sweating against the glass inside the bedding. I guess that's a good thing?

BTW, I really appreciate the response on this site! I am a member of forums on all the vehicles I own and can't nearly get this kind of help on those. GREAT FORUM!!!

Eco earth will mold, in fact it's the reason some people won't use it due to the it being easy to mold. However, the substrate your thinking of is Cyprus mulch. I personally use Reptibark and humidity currently is about 87%, my house is so dry every time I take a hoody off I hear the static build up.. :/

But keep us posted on the little guy!

[BIGT FROM F.B.]

Update: Went back to the vet today. Same shape as last time. No bubbles or anything. They said he is still very active, so he is still not "very" sick. Have another week of injections to do and see. I am used to the low maintenance snakes over the past like Kings, Milks and my favorite, Corns. I am considering trading for one of these after he gets better to someone who has more experience with the BRB.

If anyone out there is willing to do this, please let me know. This guy is being a challenge to say the least.

[Starbuck]

I wouldn't let his activity at the vet hold much weight on his overall condition. It is a strange environment and he was probably exhibiting some escape behaviors. Antibiotics on hero's typically take quite a while to stay working.
For clarification where are you h giving the injections on the snake?

I would give him at least another week or so for the antibiotics to start working and for the presumptive shed tip finish up before you make any decisions. You're our a lot onto this snake, and it's great tosee you working with the very and feeling out your options.

[BIGT FROM F.B.]

Injecting on the first 1/3 of his body just above his center line. I know if you do it too far back, the kidneys will absorb the medication and make it useless. I'm just frustrated that I've only had him 2 months and am having the trouble that is going on. I have already spent enough trying to get him better to buy 2 more snakes.

Now I'm paranoid about the Eco Earth staying too wet and growing mold, causing him not to get better. Should I try another bedding, or will that just throw my humidity out the door?

[Alexa]

I often use eco-earth for my tortoise, and as long as I mix it occasionally I don't have mold problems. Because my tortoise is in an open tub, I add water and mix up all the substrate once a week or so. If I start to neglect it and don't do that, then I have sometimes found mold in the bottom layers.

[Brylee1233]

I hope your BRB gets better, and yeah I use eco earth with a mix of repti bark and I add a good amount of sphagnum moss. It keeps the humidity up really well so far... Good luck with your BRB. Keep us updated!

[BIGT FROM F.B.]

Well, I've decided I've had enough of this. I am on the 3rd week of Antibiotic injections and there has been no change. He still looks in good shape and has great energy, but the popping sound when he exhales will not go away. I have spent lots of money at the vet and don't want to continue down this never ending path.

That being said, I am interested in someone who can help this little guy get to where he needs; someone that knows how to care for & resolve this issue. Does anyone know a reptile rescue, or are willing to take the helm? I know I can't sell him this way, but I need to know he will be helped in the long run.

[Terranaut]

NCIBI9NRD5M

Try this. Worked for my adult boa. Heat the water after the rest of the setup is ready. I did this once a day for 3 days using 10minutes a day and he cleared up almost right away. If antibiotics are not working it is either viral or some other issue.
I always try to do this stuff myself before I call the vet. Just like people rushing their children to the doctor for a common cold I think many people call the vet for stuff that doesn't need a vet. A little poping is not a drooling foaming at the mouth emergency. Try it and if (when) it works please tell others.

[MDT]

If resp infection persistent despite the use of antibiotics, it is likely a viral infection. As no cultures were obtained initially, you'll never know. Antibiotics do not cure viruses. Further, at least in humans, post respiratory infection symptoms may last 2-3 weeks after onset. You ever get a "cold" and even after you are feeling better, you have a cough that just won't go away? That kind of thing...
Disclaimer: I'm def no vet...you might seek out a diff one for definitive treatment. But, as you say, if he's eating/drinking/pooping/has good tone, this all may be a moot point.

[BIGT FROM F.B.]

NCIBI9NRD5M

Try this. Worked for my adult boa. Heat the water after the rest of the setup is ready. I did this once a day for 3 days using 10minutes a day and he cleared up almost right away. If antibiotics are not working it is either viral or some other issue.
I always try to do this stuff myself before I call the vet. Just like people rushing their children to the doctor for a common cold I think many people call the vet for stuff that doesn't need a vet. A little poping is not a drooling foaming at the mouth emergency. Try it and if (when) it works please tell others.

Thanks for that. Vapo Rub and what?? I couldn't understand what the other ingredient was. How often to do this, or is just one time enough?

[Terranaut]

It was eucalyptus. Just a few drops.

This is not a cure for RI but rather a good support activity to aid the snake in fighting with its own immune system. Anti biotics do not fix viral infections. No pill to cure a cold so to speak. Don't be shocked if your snake spews up a little crud whennusing this but I must say I was amazed at the difference this silly little treatment made.

[Sharlynn93]

Worked great for my boa...by the time the vet visit came around he couldn't hear any symptoms...

[Sharlynn93]

Oh, and the baby vicks rub has the eucalyptus already in it ;)

[BIGT FROM F.B.]

Well, did the treatment. Think all of our lungs are open now. There was some white discharge in the bottom when I got him out. Don't know which end it came from though. The vet called and said we should tube feed him if he doesn't eat by Friday. Beginning to think they're kind of off a little. Just my opinion.

[Sharlynn93]

just to clarify, because I didn't find it when I read back through the posts, but when did he eat last?

[BIGT FROM F.B.]

He hasn't eaten in 3 1/2 weeks now. He shed real nice last night after the "sauna" treatment and looks great this morning. Have to see how he's breathing and see if he'll eat tonight after shedding.

[Starbuck]

Yay! Awesome, glad he shed! Hopefully this helps to clear up his issues and you start noticing a change with his breathing

[Terranaut]

3 weeks is nothing. Your vet is "off" 3 months and I still wouldn't tube feed yet. The weight of the snake is the deciding factor not the calendar.
Hope it all works out. Keep us updated.

[BIGT FROM F.B.]

Thanks all. Last Friday, he weighed 126 grams. Don't know if that's normal for a yearling or not.

[Sharlynn93]

great news! hopefully he will eat for you real soon :)

[BIGT FROM F.B.]

Got him out tonight and he looks like he's been through the dishwasher!!! He was scooting around so much, I couldn't get a picture of him while he was running around. I didn't notice how he wasn't using his tongue to smell either while this was going on. No popping noise, no redness on his belly scales and he's running around like a champ. I CANNOT thank you guys enough for helping with this and saving me from spending a lot more money for nothing.

Also, I sent the vet the video that was shared. Maybe they will get something out of it.

This is the only picture I could get before he completely disappeared under the bedding.:bouncy::bouncy::bouncy:

[Terranaut]

I love success. Glad you took the advice. This is why we are here.