bioactive substrate?

[ilovemysnake]

i know NOTHING about it.
so, can you guys tell me about it?
i know it breaks down waste, which is what im looking for.
why? because both snakes tunnel, and do the waste in their tunnels so it's next to impossible to tell when they poo or pee.

im looking for some pro's vs cons.
do i use it just like regular substrate?
is there any species of snake it is not good for?
its fine to use with heating pads?
how well does it hold humidity?

any and all advice would be appreciated. not looking for any negativity.
like i said, i know nothing about it, haha.

thanks in advance!

[CK SandBoas]

This might answer some of your questions :)

http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/general-enclosure-discussion/102979-bioactive-substrates-dummies.html

[ilovemysnake]

This might answer some of your questions :)

http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/general-enclosure-discussion/102979-bioactive-substrates-dummies.html

lmao i just laughed so hard, for dummies :P thanks.

[CK SandBoas]

lmao i just laughed so hard, for dummies :P thanks.

You're welcome! :D

[ilovemysnake]

You're welcome! :D

its so much to take in.
do you have to just go outside and get it?
or order it?

what exactly is deemed "bioactive"
i was under the impression it was like this special soil.
i feel like i was way off.

[CK SandBoas]

Honestly, I am definitely not the one to ask....I have no experience with it myself....

[smy_749]

You were way off. Its just dirt with living organisms in it that break down waste / mold/ fungus etc.

Yes you can just go dig it up outside and put it in your enclosure. You can also just get some leaf litter and crumble that up and throw it in. You can order springtails and pill bugs and do that...Its really just dirt from nature, not from a bag...

[ilovemysnake]

You were way off. Its just dirt with living organisms in it that break down waste / mold/ fungus etc.

Yes you can just go dig it up outside and put it in your enclosure. You can also just get some leaf litter and crumble that up and throw it in. You can order springtails and pill bugs and do that...Its really just dirt from nature, not from a bag...

how can i make sure not to bring anything harmful into my home.

[smy_749]

Harmful like what?

[ilovemysnake]

Harmful like what?

bugs, mites, parasites.

[kwhitlock]

That's the point of a bioactive substrate..germs, bacteria, your effectively taking nature and putting it in your cage.

[smy_749]

bugs, mites, parasites.

Bugs are good, mites won't matter because they aren't snake mites, and parasites won't be in dirt, they need a 'host' ...and mites are parasites too

[poison123]

Heres mine
http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/general-colubrid-forum/93753-new-corn-snake-set-up.html

http://i1261.photobucket.com/albums/ii600/poison619/P1030886_zps64c82c73.jpg

[poison123]

A good way to introduce healthy bacteria is to go out and get leaf litter from the woods. The bacteria and other bugs such as springtail and wood mites will be feeding on the leaves. You then transfer it into your enclosure. Stay away from ant trails and tree trunks as sprider tend to hang out around there. I use topsoil and playsand from home depot. Hold very strong burrows. http://i1261.photobucket.com/albums/ii600/poison619/P1030700_zps9cac11c0.jpg

Can also add earth worms which work great for decomposing organic matter but you will have to addd leaf litter much more often.

[ilovemysnake]

A good way to introduce healthy bacteria is to go out and get leaf litter from the woods. The bacteria and other bugs such as springtail and wood mites will be feeding on the leaves. You then transfer it into your enclosure. Stay away from ant trails and tree trunks as sprider tend to hang out around there. I use topsoil and playsand from home depot. Hold very strong burrows. http://i1261.photobucket.com/albums/ii600/poison619/P1030700_zps9cac11c0.jpg

Can also add earth worms which work great for decomposing organic matter but you will have to addd leaf litter much more often.

probably a really dumb question, but will i have to worry about the snakes eating the worms?

[Sharlynn93]

what about humidity? corns, BP's, etc don't require high humidity, wouldn't they be in danger of getting scale rot?

[ilovemysnake]

what about humidity? corns, BP's, etc don't require high humidity, wouldn't they be in danger of getting scale rot?

that's why i was asking haha, i want to make sure it's not one of those that hold it realllly well.

[Terranaut]

Why not ask these questions in the other thread so we dont get multiple threads with the same questions/answers. This way when people search this stuff on here they get answers and don't have to sift through multiple threads. I notice you start a new thread for every question you have but most of your questions already have threads. Other forums I have been part of would rip someone a new one for not using the search feature first. Have a look. All of your substrate questions have been asked before.
Maybe a mod could merge this into the other thread?

[Mikoh4792]

No they won't be. Scale rot happens when you are kept in wet, dirty environments.

The whole purpose of bio acive soil is for the good bacteria and other decomposers to get rid of the nasty things that grow or get introduced into the environment.

[Sharlynn93]

I really don't have anywhere to get springtails, leaf litter, etc to do a full bioactive this time of year...even walmart doesnt have any topsoil here right now...would it still be ok to do a sand/eco earth mix for burrowing corns? what about a BP? (i know i posted part of this question in another thread, but since its a multiple thread discussion, i figured what the heck?) i did use the search feature, but didn't find the exact answers i was looking for, and i have seen others get flack for reviving old threads on occasion...not sure if it was for sure this forum or another, but it happens...sorry for rambling :D

[Mikoh4792]

You can just get topsoil from your backyard or a nearby forest/pond....etc where it isn't so polluted(especially good if you don't live near cities like NYC or LA.)

[Mikoh4792]

You can also buy springtails and other bugs online.

[Mikoh4792]

Just found a site in 2 seconds, so i don't know the reputation of this place but as an example there are many places to get these things.

Josh's Frogs - Largest online herps feeders and reptile supplies store (http://www.joshsfrogs.com/)

[Sharlynn93]

we are covered in snow and the ground is frozen solid :/ but i will look into ordering some bugs...maybe lowes will have some topsoil to mix in...around here they usually pack all that seasonal stuff away for the winter :(

[poison123]

Just found a site in 2 seconds, so i don't know the reputation of this place but as an example there are many places to get these things.

Josh's Frogs - Largest online herps feeders and reptile supplies store (http://www.joshsfrogs.com/)

Josh's frogs are great. I have ordered from him several times though I prefer New England Herpetoculture LLC - Home (http://www.neherpetoculture.com/)

OR

Home - Roach Crossing (http://www.roachcrossing.com/)

[poison123]

As far as scale rot go's be sure to keep the top layer of the substrate dry and moist at depth.

[Sharlynn93]

i have some in the oven to dry out just for the purpose of having a dry top layer...i don't want to advance her issue she is having with her belly scales...but i really don't like her burrowing under the paper towels and lying on the glass...she keeps kicking the thermostat probe off of the heat mat and i am afraid she will get burned :(

[CosmicOwl]

I made a similar thread, but didn't notice this one. I figure I'll ask questions here to save confusion. When starting a bio active enclosure, do you guys put your snake in there as soon as the soil is in place? Or do you allow the enclosure to have a certain amount of time to "settle" without the snake?

[Roman]

I made a similar thread, but didn't notice this one. I figure I'll ask questions here to save confusion. When starting a bio active enclosure, do you guys put your snake in there as soon as the soil is in place? Or do you allow the enclosure to have a certain amount of time to "settle" without the snake?

You can add the snakes immediately. Setting up a bioactive enclosure is a process, the amount of maintenance will decrease with time. Formica did a really good description in his answer to your post. In the beginning you have to remove the droppings of your snakes, when the enclosure is running you have only to remove the feces (I do this primarily because of the smell of the feces of my large tiger ratsnakes) but the urates will disappear without removing them.

For further reading how to set up a bioactive enclosure:

Philippe De Vosjoli: The Art of Keeping Snakes

Roman

[CosmicOwl]

You can add the snakes immediately. Setting up a bioactive enclosure is a process, the amount of maintenance will decrease with time. Formica did a really good description in his answer to your post. In the beginning you have to remove the droppings of your snakes, when the enclosure is running you have only to remove the feces (I do this primarily because of the smell of the feces of my large tiger ratsnakes) but the urates will disappear without removing them.

For further reading how to set up a bioactive enclosure:

Philippe De Vosjoli: The Art of Keeping Snakes

Roman

Formica did give some good info, but they also suggested to wait 6-8 weeks before putting the snake in the enclosure. I'm not saying that's wrong, but I would like a few opinions before setting it up.

[Aaron_S]

what about humidity? corns, BP's, etc don't require high humidity, wouldn't they be in danger of getting scale rot?

Ball pythons require relatively high humidity. They would suffer in low humidity environments.

[Sharlynn93]

sorry, Aaron...i guess in MY mind 60% isn't high considering what my rainbows are kept at...to me 60 is moderate...my concern was constant dampness against their belly scales...

[poison123]

sorry, Aaron...i guess in MY mind 60% isn't high considering what my rainbows are kept at...to me 60 is moderate...my concern was constant dampness against their belly scales...

As I said before, keep the top layer dry. The snakes will choose how moist they wanna be by burrowing down. If the all out humidity in the enclosure is to high then create more ventilation. My soil hold moister very well at depth even with a screen top. But I'm using 6-10" of soil.

[Sharlynn93]

I put about 2 inches in (the corns are still pretty small) plus a layer of dry over top...they are rebelling right now by climbing alot..LOL...but they did that with the aspen at first too...dove in and burrowed the next day...we will see how it goes...my BP setup is about the same (since she doesn't burrow) and she didn't seem to care 1 way or the other...she is blue right now so she just took back off for her hide...at least I have the peace of mind that she isn't going to get burned because she knocked the probe off the heat mat again...

[infernalis]

People.... bio active dirt ROCKS...

It's nothing more than hacking up some woods or your lawn and using it in your animal enclosures.

If your critters get sick, it's because everything else is off with the husbandry.

Your snakes and lizards live on the ground or up in trees out there in the wild every day, have done so for millions of years, LONG before "smart" people decided that bleaching, baking & boiling substrates sounded like a good idea. :(

I absolutely love the stuff, it's free (just need a shovel and a bucket) and it's self cleaning.

Monitor Lizard Forums - Bio Active Soil (http://www.varanustalk.com/forum/index.php?pageid=Dirt)

Bio Active soil (http://www.varanustalk.com/forum/showthread.php?49-Bio-Active-soil)

http://www.varanuspark.com/fauna/snout.jpg

[LadyWraith]

^^^ I love this description. Can't wait for warmer weather so I can collect a massive amount of soil from my parents' 5 acre, middle of no where country house. Really excited about bioactive.

[infernalis]

^^^ I love this description. Can't wait for warmer weather so I can collect a massive amount of soil from my parents' 5 acre, middle of no where country house. Really excited about bioactive.

It's a win win for everyone, including the animals. The people I communicate with that use it all have vibrant animals, and you can literally watch feces disappear overnight.

I have not cleaned a single turd out of my lizard cages (My gecko is on dirt too) in years. Never have to.

[CosmicOwl]

I went on a bit of an expedition. After digging down a few feet, I found some nice sand. It's a light brown-grey color and feels similar to play sand. I mixed it up with two brick of eco earth until I had something that I could I could dig in and make cave/ burrows. I put a layer of about 5 inched in the tank, with some areas being 7-9 inches in certain spots.

I figured out a solution to part of the heat issue by placing a half log directly over the heat pad and burying it. The temp inside the artificial burrow is 82 degrees(he seems to like his warm spot a little less warm, so I don't go much above 82-83). When I put my guy in there, he went right for the half log. After a bit, I noticed him digging his own burrows. I think I may add a bit more substrate to make sure his burrows keep their integrity. Otherwise, he seemed interested. A lot of exploration and tongue flicking.

In the next few days I'll go about collecting leaf litter, worms, pill bugs and such. it should be pretty fun.

[CosmicOwl]

How long after changing his enclosure do you guys think I should wait before feeding him again?

[poison123]

Offer food on your normal feeding day. If the snake wont take then wait a week.

[Aaron_S]

How long after changing his enclosure do you guys think I should wait before feeding him again?

The next full moon. But only if it's on a Sunday that is between the 10th and 12th of a month not ending in 'Y'.

[CosmicOwl]

One more question. The surface of the soil is pretty dry, but I was wondering if I should offer him a hide that isn't in direct contact with the ground, so he can be completely dry if he chooses. Do you think that is necessary?

[poison123]

One more question. The surface of the soil is pretty dry, but I was wondering if I should offer him a hide that isn't in direct contact with the ground, so he can be completely dry if he chooses. Do you think that is necessary?

Yes, do provide cover above ground.

[CosmicOwl]

Good news, he ate. He's always been a good eater, so I'm not sure what I was concerned about. It sounds a bit silly, but I'm really ecstatic about this change.

Besides the burrowing, I'm already seeing some interesting behavior from him. The last few days he has been in his self made chamber, but he'll position himself so that his head is sticking out of the entrance to the tunnel. I'm guessing it's so he can "ambush" any potential prey that might come by. Pretty neat.

[CosmicOwl]

So, I've noticed some blue mold growing on the buried half log. What do you guys recommend I do? Should I dig it up and check the rest of the wood? I was thinking of replacing it with a plastic pipe or half of a plastic coffee container.

[CosmicOwl]

I made the decision to pull the moldy log and replace it with a black plastic hide, which I then buried.

[formica]

mold is not the issue most people think it is (except slime mold which can be destructive), its part of the enclosure cycling, infact its an important marker to let you know that the cycle has started, and a good indicator of how well the cleaner crew populations and bacteria are building up.

Personally I would leave it for at least 6-8 weeks before thinking about changing it out, but first I would look at other things, like ventilation, humidity and substrate moisture content, plant foliage and root growth, and working out how much food is available (ie rotten vegetation, content of soil, dead cleaners) - all these things need to be in balance, and that takes time

molds and fungi means that the enclosure is beginning to cycle...patience is the key :) molds are only a major issue if they are out of control, or if they are in a sterile enclosure, rather than a bioactive one

You can use a clean damp sponge to remove some mold if you really want to, but you are removing food for the cleaner crews, which will mean they establish more slowly

[CosmicOwl]

mold is not the issue most people think it is (except slime mold which can be destructive), its part of the enclosure cycling, infact its an important marker to let you know that the cycle has started, and a good indicator of how well the cleaner crew populations and bacteria are building up.

Personally I would leave it for at least 6-8 weeks before thinking about changing it out, but first I would look at other things, like ventilation, humidity and substrate moisture content, plant foliage and root growth, and working out how much food is available (ie rotten vegetation, content of soil, dead cleaners) - all these things need to be in balance, and that takes time

molds and fungi means that the enclosure is beginning to cycle...patience is the key :) molds are only a major issue if they are out of control, or if they are in a sterile enclosure, rather than a bioactive one

You can use a clean damp sponge to remove some mold if you really want to, but you are removing food for the cleaner crews, which will mean they establish more slowly

I appreciate your opinions. The reason I decided to remove the half log was because it was buried and I couldn't get to the underside to wipe away any mold. When I dug it out, there was a considerable amount of mold on it, so I just decided to chuck it. My snake spends most of his time on the cool side, but I want him to be able to visit the warm, "burrow" if he chooses to and I worried the mold might make him avoid it.

Right now he's getting ready to shed, so he's spending all of his time buried on the cool side of the tank.

[formica]

Its difficult to kick start and maintain a stable bioactive enclosure without a good length of time to cycle properly, in advance of adding a reptile. Probably was the best option if the snake was already resident