Thermoregulation.

[ilovemysnake]

Currently, Turbo's under the heat lamp (i know i have to get a uth once i get my check) so im not worried about him.
It's Turbine, my luecy texas rat. i've noticed she never comes out of the hide to regualate (thermoregulate) her body... the hide used to be on the cool side, but now im worried about her getting to cold, so i put it in the middle. good or bad to move it?

Also, i just posted pics to their page, feel free to check them out!

https://www.facebook.com/TurboAndTurbine

[Mikoh4792]

Currently, Turbo's under the heat lamp (i know i have to get a uth once i get my check) so im not worried about him.
It's Turbine, my luecy texas rat. i've noticed she never comes out of the hide to regualate (thermoregulate) her body... the hide used to be on the cool side, but now im worried about her getting to cold, so i put it in the middle. good or bad to move it?

Also, i just posted pics to their page, feel free to check them out!

https://www.facebook.com/TurboAndTurbine

you need one hide for each side at the least so that your snake doesn't choose between security and thermoregulation.

It's best to litter the floor with cover so your snake has a wide range for both security and thermoregulation.


Other then that, if your temperatures and humidity are in check, let the snake do it's thing. Snakes have evolved to know what temperature they should be at if the proper range is in place.

[ilovemysnake]

you need one hide for each side at the least so that your snake doesn't choose between security and thermoregulation.

It's best to litter the floor with cover so your snake has a wide range for both security and thermoregulation.


Other then that, if your temperatures and humidity are in check, let the snake do it's thing. Snakes have evolved to know what temperature they should be at if the proper range is in place.

there's three hides. one on hot, one on cold, one in middle. on the floor there are fake plants.

[Mikoh4792]

So what are you talking about when you say this?

the hide used to be on the cool side, but now im worried about her getting to cold, so i put it in the middle. good or bad to move it

[ilovemysnake]

So what are you talking about when you say this?

they would both always go in their big humid hides on the cool side. they dont use the other two. SO now i have the hides they use in the middle. so theyre not too hot or too cold. was me doing so a bad idea? My fiance thinks i shouldnt have done it.

[ilovemysnake]

So what are you talking about when you say this?

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=231803836994372&set=a.230942607080495.1073741827.230939287080827&type=1&theater


i just posted a picture so you can see. i tagged each hide

[Lankyrob]

I have one hide each end and then LOTS of cover in between, there is never an issue with adding more hides/cover.

[Starbuck]

You need to invest in somr acuarate thermometers. Those sticl on the wall type are very innacuarate, additionslly q hy bother measuring humidity and temperature 8 inches off the ground when your snake is instead in its hide?

[Terranaut]

Thermoregulation is not an exact thing. A snakes perfect temperature isn't constant. Sometimes they need extra heat and will raise their body yemps by basking on the heat source ( digestion, infection, shedding) and other times require it to drop below the "norm" (fasting, reproduction, shedding) so trying to understand your snakes day to day needs is next to impossible. So the idea is to provide an over warm and an underwarm spot in your viv at each end. This will provide a gradiant and allow the snake to find an area of whatever temp they like in between the two areas. Another factor is that snakes will almost always choose security over perfection so they will sit in your provided hides and scoot from one to the other (for snakes thatbuse hides) to regulate their temps. Adding a lot of leaves or plants between the hides give the snake a "safe" path between them. So they will make the change as required rather than wait until absolutely necessary. Allowing your sbake to move more securely increases exercise and keeps your snake healthy. Keep all of this in mind when setting up your vivs. So in short provide husbandry but don't force it or attempt to interfere with the snake if all requirements are there. Let the snake decide or worry about it.

[infernalis]

One of the best principals of reptile keeping is to provide plenty of options and allow the animals to chose what they want / need.

The technical term is providing gradients.

Thermal gradient and humidity gradient being key.

this is why we almost uniformly recommend a warmer "end" and cooler "end"

Now, if you really want to see your snakes have some fun, get some real dirt soil and bury your cool end hide in dirt, take a finger and poke a hole in the dirt leading into the hide.

I will warn you though, you will see less of your snake, because this hide arrangement is very attractive to them, as they really feel secure underground and will spend a bit of time down in this fake cave. ;)

[Concept9]

Thermoregulation is not an exact thing. A snakes perfect temperature isn't constant. Sometimes they need extra heat and will raise their body yemps by basking on the heat source ( digestion, infection, shedding) and other times require it to drop below the "norm" (fasting, reproduction, shedding) so trying to understand your snakes day to day needs is next to impossible. So the idea is to provide an over warm and an underwarm spot in your viv at each end. This will provide a gradiant and allow the snake to find an area of whatever temp they like in between the two areas. Another factor is that snakes will almost always choose security over perfection so they will sit in your provided hides and scoot from one to the other (for snakes thatbuse hides) to regulate their temps. Adding a lot of leaves or plants between the hides give the snake a "safe" path between them. So they will make the change as required rather than wait until absolutely necessary. Allowing your sbake to move more securely increases exercise and keeps your snake healthy. Keep all of this in mind when setting up your vivs. So in short provide husbandry but don't force it or attempt to interfere with the snake if all requirements are there. Let the snake decide or worry about it.

I would have to agree 100% with Terranaut.

I would just like to add the this is Brumation season. Most snakes will eat less, move around less and need less heat for a few months to one degree or another.

As long has your husbandry is on par and you have the proper hides on the warm and cool side your snake will be fine. :)

[ilovemysnake]

You need to invest in somr acuarate thermometers. Those sticl on the wall type are very innacuarate, additionslly q hy bother measuring humidity and temperature 8 inches off the ground when your snake is instead in its hide?

im aware. right now im not rich like everyone else is. ive said before i have to wait until my check. i was asking about the hides, not the thermometers.

[Concept9]

I get the at The Home Depot here in Canada. Maybe Lows or something down there sells them. Cheap and pretty accurate.

Springfield | Digital Suction Indoor/Outdoor Thermometer with Suction | Home Depot Canada (http://www.homedepot.ca/product/digital-suction-indoor-outdoor-thermometer-with-suction/966854)

Also I noticed your using repti-carpet, personally I would remove this, its a bacteria breeding ground.

If you switch over to Cyprus-Mulch this will hold ALOT of humidity.

Hope this helps. :)

[KORBIN5895]

Well since you're not rich like me I would suggest having everything set up for your next snake before purchasing your next one.

[Starbuck]

I get the at The Home Depot here in Canada. Maybe Lows or something down there sells them. Cheap and pretty accurate.

Springfield | Digital Suction Indoor/Outdoor Thermometer with Suction | Home Depot Canada (http://www.homedepot.ca/product/digital-suction-indoor-outdoor-thermometer-with-suction/966854)

Also I noticed your using repti-carpet, personally I would remove this, its a bacteria breeding ground.

If you switch over to Cyprus-Mulch this will hold ALOT of humidity.

Hope this helps. :)

Also, you should be able to buy an entire 50lb bag of cypress mulch for around 6$ from a hardware store. This will tie in with waynes suggestion of allowing your snakes to burrow. It will help to maintain humidity, make them feel secure, etc, and is much easier to clean than reptile carpet. You won't have to disturb your snake every time they poop and remove their ENTIRE substrate to clean one spot.

[Terranaut]

Well since you're not rich like me I would suggest having everything set up for your next snake before purchasing your next one.

This although not sugar coated at all is great advice to all new keepers. Better to have one snake and everything needed for it than 2 snakes with poor husbandry.

[KORBIN5895]

This although not sugar coated at all is great advice to all new keepers. Better to have one snake and everything needed for it than 2 snakes with poor husbandry.

Hey, I figured tit for tat.

[Terranaut]

Hey, I figured tit for tat.

Regardless it is solid advice. Far to many people buy a mess of snakes then realize they don't have the money to provide proper husbandry. Unfortunately only a handful ask husbandry questions before they buy a snake instead of after. How many people don't ask about screen top aquariums until after they have shed issues?

[CosmicOwl]

I tried something with my baby grey rat, that has shown some interesting results. I gave him three hides; one on the warm side, one on the cool side and a long hide that runs the length of the tub. I'd say that he spends 90% of his time in the long hide. I'm guessing it's because it allows him to move from warm to cool without exposing himself.

[shaunyboy]

to start with i set my tanks up with the care sheet reccomended hot and cool end temps,then i watch each individual snake over a period of a few weeks,then adjust the temps according to how the snake behaves.....


re if it's up cool end all the time
if its sitting up the cool end 24/7, then i turn the hot end DOWN, 2 degree's F every 7 to 10 days,until it starts using the hot and cool sides to thermoregulate


re if it sits up the hot end all the time
if it's sitting up the hot end 24/7,i turn the hot end temps UP, 2 degree's F every 7 to 10 days,until it starts using the cool and hot sides to thermoregulate

i have found each individual Carpet has it's own prefferences re temps

some like their tanks hotter than others,some like their tanks cooler than others

re hides
i try and use 3 EXACT SAME hides in the,hot end,middle of tank,and cool end,because if 1 of the hides makes the snake feel more secure than the other 2 hides,the snake will FAVOUR the secure hide over thermoregulating

i have found snakes prefer to have tight fitting hides,that they can touch all the sides and the inside of the top of hide

cheers shaun

[ilovemysnake]

I get the at The Home Depot here in Canada. Maybe Lows or something down there sells them. Cheap and pretty accurate.

Springfield | Digital Suction Indoor/Outdoor Thermometer with Suction | Home Depot Canada (http://www.homedepot.ca/product/digital-suction-indoor-outdoor-thermometer-with-suction/966854)

Also I noticed your using repti-carpet, personally I would remove this, its a bacteria breeding ground.

If you switch over to Cyprus-Mulch this will hold ALOT of humidity.

Hope this helps. :)

thanks! i hate the repti carpet, but when i got turbo i didnt have alot of money so its a temporary thing. and then my fiance got me turbine. as soon as my check comes in, im getting them substrate, tsat, and heating pad, and a thermometer thats digital.

[ilovemysnake]

Regardless it is solid advice. Far to many people buy a mess of snakes then realize they don't have the money to provide proper husbandry. Unfortunately only a handful ask husbandry questions before they buy a snake instead of after. How many people don't ask about screen top aquariums until after they have shed issues?

they've both shed, clean and full. i keep the humidity in there at 50.

[ilovemysnake]

I tried something with my baby grey rat, that has shown some interesting results. I gave him three hides; one on the warm side, one on the cool side and a long hide that runs the length of the tub. I'd say that he spends 90% of his time in the long hide. I'm guessing it's because it allows him to move from warm to cool without exposing himself.

yeah i saw your post about that, im thinking about using a paper towel role and have it hang from the top. great idea u had!

[Starbuck]

thanks! i hate the repti carpet, but when i got turbo i didnt have alot of money so its a temporary thing. and then my fiance got me turbine. as soon as my check comes in, im getting them substrate, tsat, and heating pad, and a thermometer thats digital.

Using one thermostat for two heat sources can be dangerous since you cannot monitor the temperature (via the thermostat probe) of both heat pads reliably, so one could be at a nice and cozy 90 degrees, and the other could be at 120 and you would not know, unless you checked religiously with a temperature gun/thermometer.

If you can, i would get a second thermostat. Or, on the other tank continue to use the light since that has been working and don't instal the heat pad until you can buy another thermostat.

If you don't have a temperature gun they are very useful for spot checking temps in the enclosure. You can get them at hardware stores or online for about 25$.

[ilovemysnake]

Using one thermostat for two heat sources can be dangerous since you cannot monitor the temperature (via the thermostat probe) of both heat pads reliably, so one could be at a nice and cozy 90 degrees, and the other could be at 120 and you would not know, unless you checked religiously with a temperature gun/thermometer.

If you can, i would get a second thermostat. Or, on the other tank continue to use the light since that has been working and don't instal the heat pad until you can buy another thermostat.

If you don't have a temperature gun they are very useful for spot checking temps in the enclosure. You can get them at hardware stores or online for about 25$.

oh no im getting two tstats.
they're on oppoisite sides of the room.
ive been looking around for temp guns, but i dont know which ones the best to use without breaking the bank.

[Terranaut]

they've both shed, clean and full. i keep the humidity in there at 50.

I wasn't thinking of just you. This is solid advice many younger novice keepers make this mistake. They buy a second , third or 10th snake and think " ah I can bang a viv up out of this extra stuff I have and I will get something in a week or 2" .6 months later they have shed issues or other problems and still can't afford a new setup or a thermostat or whatever. A lot of new keepers read these threads so I hope they see this.

[infernalis]

I wasn't thinking of just you. This is solid advice many younger novice keepers make this mistake. They buy a second , third or 10th snake and think " ah I can bang a viv up out of this extra stuff I have and I will get something in a week or 2" .6 months later they have shed issues or other problems and still can't afford a new setup or a thermostat or whatever. A lot of new keepers read these threads so I hope they see this.


Very wise words. I think the same way myself.

[ilovemysnake]

I wasn't thinking of just you. This is solid advice many younger novice keepers make this mistake. They buy a second , third or 10th snake and think " ah I can bang a viv up out of this extra stuff I have and I will get something in a week or 2" .6 months later they have shed issues or other problems and still can't afford a new setup or a thermostat or whatever. A lot of new keepers read these threads so I hope they see this.

i dont have problems with keeping humidity and temps. it just gets annoying at times with having to wet the towel 2x a day. other then that, humidity stays at roughly 45-55% and temps stay at 87-89.

[Terranaut]

And thats fine for rat snakes but soe people put ball pythons in those same conditions = problems.

[ilovemysnake]

And thats fine for rat snakes but soe people put ball pythons in those same conditions = problems.

I do have one question for when i get the substrate, i read somewhere on here to mix substrate with sand because it holds the tunnels the best.

opinion?

[Terranaut]

That depends on the substrate. Are you using top soil?

[ilovemysnake]

That depends on the substrate. Are you using top soil?

thinking about using cypress mulch since someone said earlier on this thread you can get a 50lb bag of cypress mulch for around 6$.

[KORBIN5895]

thinking about using cypress mulch since someone said earlier on this thread you can get a 50lb bag of cypress mulch for around 6$.

Mixing sand in wood mulch won't do anything other than make a mess.

[ilovemysnake]

Mixing sand in wood mulch won't do anything other than make a mess.

Alright thanks, I didnt want to use sand.