Do you think your snakes can be affectionate?

[RachelS.]

Today I took out my black blood python and layed him on the ground next to me. Next thing I knew, he was cuddling up to me so I hugged him and pet down his back for a while. He really seemed to enjoy it. He actually went up to me and sat in my lap! It was so cute! Maybe it was because of my body heat? Or do you think snakes can actually understand how to "love" someone in a snake-like way?
I would also like to share an experience last year. My friend was holding my female boa constrictor as we were watching TV, and the snake seemed a bit restless after a while. She slithered over and got all snuggly in my lap then curled up. She just layed there for about 45 minutes before I decided to put her back in her enclosure. It was weird, though. I never knew snakes would actually "go" to their owners like a dog or cat and want to be warm and loving.
I have also heard of burmese pythons getting excited when they see their keepers. It's a very cute thing, actually.
But anyway, do you believe snakes can show the affection they have? Do you think they have this sense of personality? I believe they do after witnessing my experiences. It's an incredible herp world out there...

[honduranfreekk]

Hey Rachel I once had a 16 foot retic kiss me in the back of the leg lol dont think it was love tho loland i did not love the doc after the stitches ;) j/k :) :) hehe

[tightsqueeze]

i totaly believe it is possable .... my ball python is skiddish and restless id everyones hands exept mine and my g/fs

[snakemann87]

Aw thats awesome, I hope my burm and boa become like that:) If not, I'll love them just as much anyways though. But my boa seems to REALLY enjoy being handled, when i come in she'll rub up against the screen to her lid.

[PoiSoNouS]

My big burm is always getting exited each time Im in the snake room, he goes to the door and tries to get out, once hes out on my shoulders.. he gets quite calm.. I dont know if its only because hes tired of his enclosure or if he really enjoys our company.. And he hisses when someone else is handling him...

Little Burm Sunkiss gets nervous when someone else is handling her too.. like the vet... heheh but with us shes an Angel...

Maybe its just the smell... they get used to us and maybe feel confortable with what they know..

Maybe its just that..

[Tim_Cranwill]

I wish they could show or feel affection but I thinks it's pretty much a scientific fact that they can't:(

[snakemann87]

:( :( :( :( :( , oh well, still love em:D

[Jeromerules]

I think my ball python is a lover not a fighter. I have yet to see him eat. I've had hiim for nearly 1 month now and when I leave him in a container that is dark for an hour he is usually resting and cuddling with the mouse that he is supposed to be eating. i call him a big baby. He like to cuddle up to me too because i am warm. Anyways. He is about 1 month and half old. And wow I noticed a growth it's cool to watch them grow. Sorry for getting off topic. But yeah. Snakes i think have personalities and like different things.

[marisa]

Definitly think snakes can become accustomed to a person and being handled. But like cranwill said its not really possible for them to feel love. Love doesn't have a place when you are trying to survive in the wild so there is no reason they would ever become able to love. :)

Marisa

[JasonBrennan]

I do not think that a snake (or any reptile, for that matter) has any concept of love, affection, or anything remotely resembling it. I do think that they can become used to handling, and that they do not feel threatened when handled, and some people take that as enjoyment.

Think about how big a snakes head is. Now think about how small his/her brain actually is. As far as I know, snakes are pretty much instinctive creatures, and at most, simply become conditioned to captivity.

Not to take away from anyone who believes that their pet love's them. If you love your pet, that is what matters.

[katev17]

Hmm I actually am in the process of reading a book that proves reptiles can have the concepts of love & affection as such .... well it also proves that all kinds of other animals can but it talks about snakes and reptiles and such.. I will try to find the name of it cuz I actually forgot about it ....

Kate

[marisa]

How does it go about "proving" ??

Just curious
marisa

[Lisa]

I think a snake may enjoy being handled, but not because they like you as a person, but because you are warm and smell familiar. I do know some snakes hate being handled.

[snakemann87]

i agree with lisa

[katev17]

I haven't gotten to it yet, but so far the first part of the chapter goes into stories about why one would think an animal is capable of these feelings, and then the other is the similarities between hormones excreted in humans and hormones in other animals... so we'll wait and see what the book has to say... also, just cuz the book says it doesn't mean it's true... Anyone with enough money can publish whatever they want!!!

I'd like to think that they are capable, but Lisa's theory is much more likely. Oh well, I guess I'll see what the book has to say.

Kate

[marisa]

other thoughts are when you think of "love" actual love and what it means it becomes clear that snakes aren't capable of it.

Dictionary.com Definition of Love:
n.
A deep, tender, ineffable feeling of affection and solicitude toward a person, such as that arising from kinship, recognition of attractive qualities, or a sense of underlying oneness.
A feeling of intense desire and attraction toward a person with whom one is disposed to make a pair; the emotion of sex and romance.

Sexual passion.
Sexual intercourse.
A love affair.
An intense emotional attachment, as for a pet or treasured object.
A person who is the object of deep or intense affection or attraction; beloved. Often used as a term of endearment.
An expression of one's affection: Send him my love.

A strong predilection or enthusiasm: a love of language.
The object of such an enthusiasm: The outdoors is her greatest love.

-----------------------------------------------------

I don't think a snake can express a deep intense affection, or an emotional attachment. I believe its because a snake is made to hunt its food, live alone in the wild and generally have to survive love doesn't come into play. It doesn't have to depend on anyone (from its point of view), it doesn't need a person to keep it warm (again from the snakes view) and it doesn't have a reason to feel attachment to anything. I would think other behaviours would be evident if these things were going on. This is a good discussion though. :)

Marisa

[Tim_Cranwill]

Yeah, great discussion. It kinda makes me think though. Look at what people thought 100 years ago. We've all seen what stupid ideas people had about exercise back in the day. Maybe someone will make some big discovery about how much our reptiles love or hate us:)

You never really know. Even when you think you do;)

[royal]

Cranwill wrote something that makes just as much sense as anyone else's post...."look at what people thought 100 years back"... Well for that matter look at 1000 years and more(caveman days etc).

I think that love is a little stretched, but an attraction.. kindof like a crush or maybe a bond like that of best friends.
I think that It could be possible for snakes to get used to and almost look forward to seeing/touching/or smelling their owners who are good to them. In my opinion there are other feelings, not love but close to it, that come in the way of comfortness and a feeling of security..... like what young teens feel with their first girlfriends?

My opinion anyway.

[krrc]

first of all good topic. if I was to say any animal felt love or something like it tord a human it would be a dog or a bird (smart one) a reptile as everyone has pointed out have not lived in the wild in a way that would make them have a need for these fellings. I do belive that they will find safety with you and warmth. they will trust you. so I think thats good. although after 10,000 years of being in captivity who knows what they will be like then! :p

[Jeromerules]

Snakes will Take over the world. JK. this topic is really good. But I think humans will never really know exactly what animals feel. Ever. Unless animals learn how to speak freely and tell us there feelings. As for now though since our pets can't speak, all that matters is that we lover our babies.
Out

[ReptiZone]

us humans have a verry bad habit of associating human fealings with animal behavior. Just because your C.B burmese python that you saw hatch and have worked with for 30min a day for 10 years dosent bite you dos'nt mean it loves you.
I have said it before and I will say it again snakes are routine animals they watch you every day when you do your daily chours in there cage heck what more do you wnat them to do. If you take your snake out every day for 30 min after you clean the cage or change the water. Ya they can get used to being handeld and maby enjoy the exerciese but they dont go to the glase because they love you they know you will take them out and to them it is just another chance to escape there enclosure. For the fact of having them curling up on a persons lap as a sign of affection.....no way my snakes in the past have alwase curled up un MY lap but if a GIRL should hapen to take her she go's right down her shirt never fails. That is a extreamly warm place for a snake on guys it s the arm pits and lap area. the hole idea of your snake (freaking out) when someone is holding it other than you is also false you have worked with this snake for X amount of years you have your way of handeling it not every one can duplicate your ways so it is not acording to the snakes routine yes they can tell if it is the same persone or not just by the way things are being done. why do you think W.C snakes are so angery all the time it is not acording to there routine.


that is my theory anywase

Chondro Python

[ReptiZone]

p.s i yoused a burm as a exampel

[Dom]

No matter how much u love em' --- They will never love you back...

I have learned to accept it!

[J_Riley]

anthropomorphism - Attribution of human motivation, characteristics, or behavior to inanimate objects, animals, or natural phenomena.

[BILLP]

good topic. here is my two cents! I think they become used to us, our smell our touch and maybe even know that we are a source of food. I don't really think that they can love or hate us I don't think either one of those emotions are useful to a snake. Also we are trying to apply human emotions to an animal, I mean who knows what any animal thinks even a dog, we don't know if it loves us back, we think it does. But maybe dogs don't have that emotion it might be security or comforet that make a dog act the way it does to us.

[josefg]

This is a story I found in a book published in 1897 calles <i>Animals' Ways and Claims</i> by <i>Edith Carrington</i>. The comments in the brackets are mine.....

<b>An Affectionate Serpent</b>
"A story of affection on the part of a boa constrictor is told by Professor Romanes. The boa lived in London, in his master's house, and was as tame and gentle as a house cat. The splendid serpent would twine his velvet folds around his mistress and push his head up her sleeve expecting to be patted. The children played with him, and would kiss his mouth, pushing aside the forked tongue with which he tried at the same time to lick their faces (LMAO)

"Once his friends went away for a while, and were forced to leave him in charge of a keeper at the Zoo. The poor reptile moped, pined, and slept all day; but instantly became very lively and showed intense delight when his friends came back. His end was sad (this is the most hilarious part), for he died of grief at the sudden illness of his master. While the wife went to fetch a doctor, the serpet, not liking to be alone, crept up into the room where his master was lying (apparently the snakes was allowed to roam in the house), and finding him lie so silent and still, the shock broke his heart. When his mistress came home she found the faithful serpent streched beside his sick master, dead"

Well I don't really beleive this story but I think that snakes tend to feel more secure when they are handled by someone they recognize (because of the person's scent). I think this because one of my corn seems to be confortable while I am handling him but seems quite unconfortable when someone else is handling him.... (well it may be just an illusion of an overproud parent :rolleyes: ;))

[OttawaChris]

As much as we would all wish to know our pets love us I am just not sure it is possible. I have learned to think of it this way for an animal... trust=love.

When a lizard, snake, tarantula, or any other "wild" pet tolerates you and no longer shows any fear when you are interacting with it I think it trusts you. It knows you mean it no harm and that you are a nice warm place to sit for a while.

Arguments can be made though, using my leopard gecko for an example. If I put my hand down on the ground she climbs up and sits in my palm. I run the back of her head and she seems to enjoy it (almost the same effect as when you scratch a cat on the head)

The same goes for beardies. It seems to feel good to them when you give a chin rub or a head scratch (probably because you are helping to shed lol)

In any case, I always feel honoured and priveledged to be accepted by a wild animal... because we all know that the human species sure doesn't deserve any kindness from the animal kingdom after all we have done to them.

[Lizzy001]

yeah i think it is possible........

[Nanashi04]

It's always nice to believe

[eyespy]

I don't think they are affectionate, but they can come to enjoy the warmth of my hands and the opportunity to stretch out and get a little exercise.

My definition of a sweet snake is one that doesn't tag me, poop or musk, or try to bolt. So most snakes make me pretty happy once they are used to me, and I feel affection for them. That's the most important thing, anyhow. As long as they are not showing signs of stress or defensive posturing, who can really tell what reptiles are thinking?

Except my iguanas, of course. I know what they are thinking, "Serve me, slave!"

[infernalis]

This is an interesting topic that was closed in 2003, I thought it would be interesting to continue on, since we have so many "fresh faces" now.

So anyways, I re-opened the discussion, feel free to read back and see what has been said, comment on it or just post your own thoughts on the subject.

[Freebody]

my retic will just sit and chill if you go up to her cage but if I go up to the cage she will come out of her cave and follow me from one side of the cage to the other, if i have her out she will slither all over me and not transfer to another person but if someone else is holding her she will try her best to transfer back to me. if anyone other than myself is holding her she moves more rapid and inconsistant. can remember where i read it but it said that retics are actually smart enouph to distinguish a person from another person and even hate an particular individual, i might have seen it on discovery but not sure.

[Freebody]

i had a boa years ago i used to feed nothing but live food to, she had not eaten in about 2/3 weeks< i could not find food. i got this rat and bonked it on the head dropped it in her cage and my snake would not eat it, it came back from unconciousness and for weeks i kept this rat in the cage living with her, it would constantly sleep in my snakes coils and come out and roam the cage i had nothing to house the rat in so i fed the rat in the cage, i tried everything to get my snake to eat it, hanging it upside down by the tail infront of her....nothing worker. about 3 weeks of this rat living with my snake i had grown attached to it and decided to build a cage to keep it in, which i did keep the rat till it finnaly died a year or so later but the day i took this rat out i replaced it with another one i had gotten from the store or the next day and instantly ate that one NP i didnt have the heart at that point to feed it the one i had gotten the cage for to see 100% it had gron attached to it but i believe it did....i swear to god this is what happend take from it what you want but i believe 100% snakes can be attacked emotionally to somthing else may it be an animal or a person. i named the rat bam bam and tried to bread it got 1 litter from it and fed them and the mate to my snake and kept just her,being how i felt it was devine intervention on some level what it went through and never died or got eaten. food for thought :) plz tell me if anyone else you know had somthing similar to this happen.

[infernalis]

My Xena (R.I.P.) was a real character. She knew me, and would protest when I tried to put her down.

I tried to put her down outside, and the poor girl panicked and coiled my fingers so tight I thought they were going to turn blue.

all I had to do was put my hand in her cage, and she would be the first one to scoot right over and start up my arm.

One of a kind that girl was.

[Lankyrob]

I think love is a strong word to associate with any animal. I agree with some of the others that most animals can become aware of who feeds them, treats them well, handles them gently etc and then can form a bond through mutual trust rather than love.

The thought of a predator becoming this trusting is however "lovely"!!

[Feebo]

Snakes are not at all capable of showing you any affection in any way, what so ever. Curling up in your lap is purely because you`re warm and they`re cold because they`re not in thier enclosure. I own oooooh lots of snakes and I do see what you mean, they do seem interested in thier keeper to a certain extent but it`s certainly not love. They tollerate you, at best they find you interesting in the same way as they would a nice branch that`s comfortable to sit on. I`ve really gotten into my photography in the last few years and I have many a photograph that seems to suggest they can show affection lol but... as a cold blooded reptile, they most certainly do not. It`s all too easy to impose human emotions onto a snake, that could get you into serious trouble if you owned an aggressive or unpredictable species. Saying that, you`ve got a Blood ! lol If I were to impose an emotion onto my Blood pythons, I`d say they were psycopaths lol :D
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk294/feebix/2Boa005.jpg

[Will0W783]

This is a really interesting discussion! From a science perspective (Im a Neuroscientist) snakes do not have much at all of a cortex in their brains- the higher thinking, positive emotion-processing area. That said, they do have an amygdala which processes fear, anger and such; therefore they could theoretically be angry with you or afraid. But we can't really impose human emotions on any animal- we just don't understand how or what they think. I have a few snakes that will seem to "ask" to come out of their cages when they see me and seem to enjoy being out and handled. They do get used to us, and even come to understand that we are the source of food, water and escape from the enclosure. Perhaps in some reptilian way they can become slightly attached to us, but I do not think they can feel "love" or real affection as we understand these concepts. But who knows? There's still so much we don't understand about the brain and its workings. I think it's fine to speculate and even feel like your snake is affectionate to you, as long as you keep in mind that it is a primarily instinct-driven animal and you don't do stupid things with it that are likely to get you bitten..lol.

[emseeKAY]

I think that many reptiles can recognize that we are a source of food or water as well as escape from their enclosure, however i find it hard to believe that any reptile can "love" although from what infernalis said it seems his Xena showed some sort of form of affection, but for the most part i have not witnessed any reptile i have owned show any affection (unless crapping or musking on you counts... lol :D ) but its not to say that i wouldnt love it if they did show love towards owners. I did however hear that retics seem to exhibit traits that they can distinguish between different people which is cool lol

[infernalis]

But we can't really impose human emotions on any animal - we just don't understand how or what they think.

I am going to deviate from the reptile discussion for just a moment here.....

I understand we cannot classify this as "human" emotions, well almost my kids have done it....

We have 3 dogs, ACE the alpha male has "chosen" Dorothy as his "human"
and will sleep at her feet, follow her around and is very clutchy toward her.

The 2 pups (almost 1 year old now) have chosen me, they will dance up and down and bark at the very sight of me (Especially if I have been gone for a bit)

That's one of the reasons we have them as pets, I couldn't imagine one of our snakes getting excited to the point of jumping up and down at the mere sighting of one of us, or "missing" us.......

So in summary I could not say "any animal", since there are exceptions.

Back on topic, I do agree, snakes and lizards tolerate us, they do appear to "know us" however I'm sure that has a lot to do with being familiar with us and not much more.

[Will0W783]

Dogs do seem to "love" us. They get attached to their owners and look up to them as alpha and pack leaders, but for dogs that is natural. They are a communal animal and they seek leadership both in the wild and in captivity.

[Feebo]

My beetles don`t love me either lol ;D or my snails....

[infernalis]

My roaches just love me, they really enjoy walking on me and cuddling in front of the TV.http://laserpointerforums.com/images/smilies/rolleye11.gifhttp://laserpointerforums.com/images/smilies/crackup.gif

[Freebody]

I can prove snakes can love.... rub the scent of a rat on you,walk in your cage and i can garantee your snake with dance up and down and come right over and give you a big long hug and and nice open mouth kiss lol
no for real i dont think its love they feel for us, i think thats a too complex emotion, but i think its more complex than just a warm branch it likes to slither on or the person who brings it food.

[Will0W783]

I agree with Freebody. They might not love us, but they probably feel something for us. For example, my fiance's Nic boa HATES me....she will freak out and attack the front of her cage and hiss at the top of her lungs if she so much as sees me. Anyone else she is fine with. Mere sight or scent of me is enough to send her into a tizzy, and God forbid I open the cage to try to give her water...
She is perfectly fine with my fiance; I have never done anything mean or nasty to her, she disliked me from the moment he brought her home. Now you tell me she doesn't feel something specific for me there.

[Hillsberry]

Totally agree with Willow and Freebody. I think snakes dont "love" but I think they pick and chose the people they like and dont. But I how my snakes know I love them to death! :)

[emseeKAY]

My roaches just love me, they really enjoy walking on me and cuddling in front of the TV.http://laserpointerforums.com/images/smilies/rolleye11.gifhttp://laserpointerforums.com/images/smilies/crackup.gif

sounds like a party hahaha

[Feebo]

Thinking about a snakes perception of it`s surroundings, (and I wonder if anyone else notices this) depending on the species, some snakes are quite interested in what is going on in the snake room. To others, thier world is inside the tank, but my Corns especially, will sit next to the glass and watch me, even following me around the room....

[Lankyrob]

My corns are just over my shoulder with me between them and the TV - it does seem quite often that they are either watching me on the laptop or watching the TV.

They will also follow me around the room from one end of the viv to the other as i nmove about.

They do seem to have an awareness of who people are. One of them shakes his tail and hisses at my wife when she gets them out of the viv - he is fine if i get him out them pass him over tho. These nuances are the things i lover about all animals and why we have so many pets!!!

[citysnakes]

wow tons of anthropomorphizing going on in this thread.:( i think im going to keep a lot of my opinions to myself on this one and simply answer the question that is the title of this thread with a "No".

[infernalis]

One thing that I find so attractive about my little garters, they are all curious about what is going on in the room.... Very inquisitive species.


I think I'm going to keep a lot of my opinions to myself on this one

Please don't, The whole idea behind a forum is to allow everyone to speak their opinions. ;)

fo·rum (fôrm, fr-)
n. pl. fo·rums also fo·ra (fôr, fr)

1. A public meeting place for open discussion.
2. A medium for open discussion or voicing of ideas, such as a website.
3. A public meeting or presentation involving a discussion usually among experts and often including audience participation.

I removed the Roman and legal refernces... We are not a tribunal here.

[gonesnakee]

Didn't read any of the posts above, but the answer is NO.
You are nothing to a snake but a source of heat, a prey provider, a means to escape the enclosure, something to climb on, thats pretty much it. Mark

[Feebo]

Here`s a question I think we should add to the discussion,aside from it being slightly annoying, is there any actual harm in people believing thier snakes love them? I would say that there potentially is. I mean, if your understanding of snake behaivour is so fundamentally flawed that you think your snake wants to "come out and play" surely you can`t take proper care of it. What do you guys think of that? No offence to anyone there by the way, I`m just exploring both sides here :)

[gonesnakee]

Here`s a question I think we should add to the discussion,aside from it being slightly annoying, is there any actual harm in people believing thier snakes love them? I would say that there potentially is. I mean, if your understanding of snake behaivour is so fundamentally flawed that you think your snake wants to "come out and play" surely you can`t take proper care of it. What do you guys think of that? No offence to anyone there by the way, I`m just exploring both sides here :)

For sure there is IMHO
Complacency is a HUGE issue when it comes to keeping snakes IMHO & does result in people being injured, sometimes seriously.
I always Trust a snake, to be a snake that is ;)
Its a creature of instinct & something to always respect as such, Mark

[infernalis]

It's time for me to be serious about this, I simply do not handle my snakes aside from feeding and cage cleanings... Period.

It stresses the animal, sure there are RARE specimens, Like my departed Xena that was comfortable with handling, so much it gave the ILLUSION that she liked it.

"Playing with" your snakes is bad for them, handling them is OK in moderation, as long as you stay calm and do not startle the poor thing.

[Lankyrob]

OK - i will stick my head above the parapet ready to be shot down.

I dont think it is a problem for people to think that their snakes "love" them as long as it doesnt make them complacent around the snake. At the end of the day all our pets are 'wild' animals and we need to learn to read them and trust them before we handle them.

I get my corn snakes out 3 or 4 times a week and handle them purely for the joy of handling them. I dont believe it causes them any harm as long as it is all done is a calm controlled manner and so far they have shown no signs of stress. They are eating, pooping and shedding in a healthy manner.

If they were older snakes when we got them and were never handled before then we would not start now but we got young snakes for the reason that we wanted them to get accustomed to handling as they grow.

We intend to use the snakes to educate local children about them and have already been invited into a nursery to show the snakes and to explain to the children how they are cared for and hopefully dismiss the perceptions of some of the children and their parents.

If i am wrong i am wrong but then we all have differing ideas and thats the great thing about this forum - we can all express our views and then make up our own minds. My main concern is always the health and wellbeing of my animals and i would never do anything that i havent thouroughly looked into and researched first. As with all things in life there will those that shoot me down and those that support but without this life would be boring!!

Look forward to hearing your thoughts......

[infernalis]

I hear you Rob, I would chose certain animals from my collection for such educational activities, Corn snakes are quite calm and perfect for showing others.

Royal (ball) pythons are another good example of a calm snake.

I have a boatload of garter snakes, and only 2 of them accept handling without a fuss, several tolerate it, and all the rest will freak out, bite, musk and hurt themselves trying to get free from "that big ugly monster that picked them up"

[Feebo]

Same here Wayne really. They are handled when I do a full clean of thier enclosures or when they are being periodically checked for health issues and that`s about it. I don`t think twice about getting a snake out to show a guest in the snake room mind you, depending on the snake. They certainly don`t come out for the sake of it as a matter of course. I`m responsible for all the husbandry so obviously I do get to actually handle all of my snakes at some point, but only really when health checks or housekeeping dictate.....

[Feebo]

Royals are calm but I`d say they are easily made nervous too, they may be unlikely to make a fuss when shown but I wouldn`t say they are unlikely to become stressed, they even got thier name from a nervous behaivour.....

[infernalis]

However, I can sit in front of those enclosures and watch all day long... I sometimes do.

I have even fell asleep in the snake room watching these beautiful animals being themselves.

The prettiest snakes in my collection bite me every stinking time I touch them, go figure.

[Lankyrob]

We are thinking that a Royal will be our next step on the Snake ladder once the corns are a little older. Again we will try for one at the youngest stage so that we can handle regularly in order to familiarise it with being handled.

And just like to say a big thanks to Feebs for letting me and my family see all his snakes and handle a couple - lovely set up, lovely snakes (and a nice bloke too!!!).

[Feebo]

Always more than happy to show the snake room off ;D I never usually allow children up there though, in fact, I think yours was the first...

[Lankyrob]

Thats cool mate - we are privileged!! Helps that we have all the animals at home so she is aware of how she should behave around them.

[illcyat420]

I think my boa loves me...never wants to let go.

[Feebo]

That`s where we get back to the whole branch thing.....

[emseeKAY]

lol i think its more the people who believe that their snake wants to "cuddle" them and whatever... i enjoy showing my snakes off to people, mainly to educate them and show that they're not giant monsters. however i do this in a manner which works for the snake, i never take them out to handle more than once per day, usually around 3-4 times per week, during cleaning duties and for just plain old handling. If i do allow someone to see the snakes then i do the holding purely because i do not trust the other person with holding them. i think the only person to hold any of my reptiles other than myself would be my girlfriend. again, i think this boils down to being responsible with the animal.

[Feebo]

Here here :)